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Developer Diary | Norway Alt History!

Hej everyone, it’s me, Carlo! Katten has been staring at me from the other side of the office all morning, which can only mean one thing: it’s time for me to write another Dev Diary! Now, I’ve already talked about Historical Norway, the Joint Focus Tree, and modding stuff so there’s only one more thing I could write about, and that’s our favorite kamerat, LevTrotskij.

Known outside of Norway as Leon Trotsky, he was one of the most prominent members of the bolsheviks in the Soviet Union, renowned marxist theorist, known for his permanent revolution, and even more permanent exile. He was Lenin’s successor apparent, but Stanlin’s political maneuvering forced him out of the government and eventually out of the Soviet Union. After that, he was allowed to move to Norway, with the newspaper editor, Konrad Knudsen. So far so good.

01. Trotsky advisor.png

The important thing for us happens in an August much like this one, in 1936, when Quisling’s thugs ransacked Knudsen’s house, and would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t because Knudsen’s daughter drove them off. So much for the tolerant left, smh. This event will be represented in AAT’s Norway, regardless of the path you take, and it’s the start of trotskij’s event chain.

02. Trotsky’s place ransacked event.png

Historically, the pressure from fascists and stalinists was too much for the Nygaardsvold Cabinet, so he was put under house arrest in a farm in Hurum, which, by his own account, was one of the worst periods of his life. After that he was allowed into Mexico, and received by the artist Frida Kahlo and her husband Diego Rivera. And then they lived happily ever after. Though he was, indeed, kicked out when Diego Rivera found out he was having an affair with Frida Kahlo and then was killed with an ice pick by a Soviet Union agent. Other than that he had a good time in Mexico by all accounts.

03. Trotsky arrives to Mexico event.png

Of course, you don’t need to care about what happened historically. You can just imprison him, or send him to Mexico right away and use this altercation as a justification for increasing political repression, send him straight to Stalin, and even put him in government. Those last two are especially useful if you’re going the communist route by the way.

Communist Route?... Oh, right, that’s what I was supposed to write about, Alt History content for Norway! Since I already wrote about Trotskij’s fate, let me tell you about the options you have for
turning Norway even redder.

04. Norway Communist Branch.png

First step, the labor movement needs to regain its momentum, with the ‘A Resurgent Labor Movement’ focus. This will set Norway on to the path of Communism, but which one? You can compromise with the NKP to adopt their Stalinist stance or prosecute them and let the Labor Party embrace Trotskij’s teachings, and if you kept him in Norway you’ll also have him as an advisor and general.

05a. Compromise with the NKP.png

05b. Prosecute the NKP.png

Each path has advantages and disadvantages: you can be beholden to the Soviet Union and their support, or you can go your own path and bring the Permanent Revolution to the rest of the world.

Regardless of your communist goals, you will need to rouse the proletariat in states that are industrialized enough, and when you’re ready you can trigger the communist revolution and fight in a civil war against the old Norway! Now of course, riling up the workers has its cost, because they’ll do some heavy damage to your factories and infrastructure once they rise up for the revolution.

06. Rouse The Proletariat Decisions.png


Let’s take a better look at the ‘Rouse the Proletariat Decisions’. The first level will grant you the state once the civil war starts, but will leave your buildings in a pretty rough shape.

07. Rouse the Proletariat 1.png

You can reduce this damage by bringing it to Level 2 and you will also be granted 2 irregular divisions.

08. Rouse the Proletariat 2.png

Then if you’re really serious about that state you can fully rouse its working class, reducing the damage to the buildings and upgrading those troops to Militias.

09. Rouse the Proletariat 3.png

And before you think “But Carlo, what if I just rouse the whole country and I skip the civil war?”, I’ll tell you now, that won’t work. You will have to choose carefully how to approach these decisions, as you can’t go over 20 Total Support for the Revolution and no matter what, the other side will have Oslo.

Ok now, let’s go over the things you’ll be able to do once you’ve seized the means of production in Norway. If your senpai Stalin noticed you, there will be plenty of improvements to your industrial base, manpower and a close collaboration with the Soviet Union, and even help them invade Finland. Maybe the Arms Against Tyranny thing is just aspirational.

10. War in Finland Tooltip.png

If instead, you decided to go with uncle trotskij, as I said before, you’ll get an extra advisor and general, and that will put you behind the wheel of your very own communist faction, the Norintern with the focus ‘The Permanentest Revolution’. That’s what it’s actually called, and nobody has complained about it so I guess the name is final? Defend Finland, bring the war to Stalin, Sweden, Norway and even Hitler, bringing about a new, Trotskyist world order.

11.Permanentest Revolution Tooltip.png

To summarize, with Stalin you’ll get soldiers and industry. With Trotsky you’ll get easy wargoals and offensive bonuses. Your pick.

Now let’s move slightly to the right. To the allied democratic branch, which starts with a fictional Vote of No confidence that the Nygaardsvold government loses. This branch is what happens when militaristic industry tycoons take control of the government. It overlaps somewhat with the democratic branch, except you can skip the whole Broken Gun thing and go straight for rearmament, so you’ll have more time to get ready for what’s coming, but at the cost of a lot of civilian industry.

12. Alt Dem branch.png


This path leads to a more centralized government, so all the local preparations are pooled together, letting you start nation-wide initiatives, both during peacetime and war time.

13a. Military Preparedness Decisions.png

13b. Military Preparedness Decisions 2.png
13c. Military Preparedness Decisions 3.png


It also overlaps a little with the Trotskyist path, just not the commie parts, and you’ll be able to join the allies instead of forming your own faction.

14. Prepare for war and Join The Allies.png

Let’s keep going, I have actual work to do, so I’m gonna skip the historical path. A few things have changed, but not enough to care, and the dog is still there so onwards to the fascist path, which, of course there is one.

15 Fascist Path.png


It starts with The Stumbling Storting, in this reality the labor party fails to secure political stability for Norway, leaving the door open to fascists, and other undesirables.

16. Stumbling Storting event.png

Let’s go with Undesirable Elements #1, fascists. In this scenario Quisling is somewhat good at making people think he’s competent and that fascism is reasonable. The Nasjonal Samling will lurk in the shadows and build support for their agenda state by state, seeking support from the Fatherland League (A proto-fascist nationalist movement), industrialists, conservatives and even fascists abroad.

17. Lurk in the Shadows Decisions.png


Eventually, you’ll reach a familiar focus, ‘Quisling’s Coup’, except this time, you’re ready for it, you have built the support needed to make the takeover as easy as possible for you and the foreign fascist invaders, whom you invited! Yes, in this path you can invite the most suitable fascist regime to invade Norway so you can take over the government and help them on their fascist crusade. Don’t worry if they say no, that rejection will also allow you to start the coup without them, who needs Hitler anyway.

18. Nasjonal Samling Focus.png

The coup, as expected, will trigger a civil war in which, unlike the communist one, you’ll only control Oslofjord. That’s alright though, you prepared for this, which means that you can take over states where you built support in. If you only prepared base level support, you’ll get the state, not too shabby! But if you built more support, you will be rewarded for your efforts with a brand new Military Factory, and maybe even a couple of militias too if you fully prepared it.

19. Deploy Prep Decisions.png

This should put you on the right footing to start your fascist campaign, have fun making the world a worse place! Eventually, you’ll make it to your outlandish viking theme claims around the North Atlantic. Classic.

20. Old Vinland Tooltip.png

Now onto the last branch: The monarchist branch. For some reason a lot of people who want nordic focus trees also want a monarchist path, I can understand why, but I still think they’re wrong. I still made a monarchist path for Norway, whose king was reluctant to become their king, and even when he took over, by all accounts had no intention of becoming anything more than a figurehead.

21. Monarchist Branch.png


This reality starts much like the fascist one, with the Storting devolving into chaos, and the Royal Chamberlain, Anker Peder Wedel-Jarlsberg uses this opportunity to build support for a more involved monarchy, with his steady hand at the helm of course. Obviously, he is not part of the real Wedel-Jarlsberg noble family that lives in Norway, any similarities are purely coincidental, etc. He’s not Wedel-Jarlsberg with a ‘-’, his is a minus symbol. Just do me a favor and don’t tell the legal team, they don’t need to stress about it.

22. Anker Peder Wedel-Jarlsberg.png

Peder Anker will travel all around Norway proselytizing his monarchist cause, giving you bonuses for building defensive buildings, and adding more building slots, which will of course reduce the available manpower in the state, because, you know, they’re all busy being monarchists so they don’t have time to be soldiers.

23. Build Support for Monarchism Decisions.png

Except… If you go all the way with your monarchism you get 2 free militia divisions, and once you get the power as the Regent of Norway you can edit to your heart’s content. They’ve been so converted that they are now soldiers for monarchism.

24. Royal Militias.png

Once the Absolutist Regency is the rule of the land you’ll recruit the crown prince, Olav to join either the Navy or Army staff, since he was indeed employed in both during the war. In this case you’ll probably want him dedicating all his efforts on one thing, so he can become either a General or an Admiral and will allow you to specialize your country further.

25a. Olav to Army Staff.png
25b. Olav to Navy Staff.png


And of course you can get an extra set of outlandish claims. Faroe Islands, Iceland, Greenland, part of Russia, and even part of Sweden. At the end you’ll be able to consolidate your kingdom to make it easier for Peder Anker to rule over his king’s land.

26. Claims on Faroe Islands.png

And well that’s it. Obviously there’s tons more to unearth if you ask the right questions ;) and many more things I’ll either keep as a secret for release or haven’t implemented yet, like the new Trotskij portrait and the [Redacted] of [Redacted]. Also, don’t forget to stay tuned for the Sweden alt history Dev Diary, where you’ll see how wildly different the world would be if Sweden had privately managed vacation instead of state managed ones.
 
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Just because it's memey and unrealistic doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the game. I mean, Anastasia then a bear can lead poland, but not the historical and popular king of norway?
May i refer to my earlier comment on the topic? At least it is something to discuss here, right?
Well, him being a national hero doesn't mean, that you could convince him to step over his character and take over the country. Wasn't part of what makes him a hero his modesty? Please don't read my comment as an unfriendly one, i just want to understand your point better as a non Norwegian.
 
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I'm of two minds about the design of Norway's monarchist path described here.

On the one hand, Haakon VII really, really wanted to be a constitutional monarch, not a ruler. Having the monarchist PM in the national leader role is a fairly clever way to show that.

On the other hand, that's not consistent with how monarchs who chose to rule through the cabinet (Emperor Showa) or likely would have had to do so (Edward VII) are portrayed in-game currently.

I suppose this would not be the only inconsistency in-game, and far from the worst. Of course, I'm an American with can speak maybe a dozen words of Norwegian, so take that opinion as you will.
 
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May i refer to my earlier comment on the topic? At least it is something to discuss here, right?
It's a good argument. I personally feel that Haakon would have taken power if his people truly wanted him to. In fact I'm fine with the whole premise of the focus tree. I just think at the end, after the population is begging him to, he should take power, not because he wants to, but becauses it what his people and duty call on him to do.
 
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If you hate doing a monarchist tree why bother? whats the point in putting worse content in the game that neither you or the players enjoy. it just comes off really unprofessional
 
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Actually no look, i'm always defending base game hoi trees, but this one just looks *bad* so many 70 day focuses, a load of decisions tanking your stability and war support to then what... be monarchist all on your own and maybe build a few boats? I want to be excited for these trees! but i want them to be closer to like poland than the Czechoslovakia one. weekly stability -1 for 1 civilian factory etc , maybe this tree will be really fun to actually play im meant to be doing norway in an MP with friends, but this dev diary has somehow killed all my hype for it ? cause it looks really half hearted and genuinely miserable to playthrough with all those slowwww penalties
 
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Well, him being a national hero doesn't mean, that you could convince him to step over his character and take over the country. Wasn't part of what makes him a hero his modesty? Please don't read my comment as an unfriendly one, i just want to understand your point better as a non Norwegian.
The primary reason Haakon is considered a national hero is his stubborn defiance against the germans whom requested him twice to allow quisling to form a government. Another reason is that Haakon doggedly resisted against a supperior opponent as long as he could, and only evacuated when there was no other choice (and he needed to be convinced to evacuate to England instead of enduring the occupation with the people).
In short he never gave up and never yielded an inch to the germans.

There is nothing in his character that would suggest that he would not take power if a majority of the people asked him to. He considered himself as a servant of the people, and if the people wanted him to take power there's every chance that he would (especially with crown prince Olav encouraging him on). Haakon famously asked for a plebicite before accepting the offer to become the king of Norway, that was because he did not want to come accross as a foreign monarch forced upon the people, like the king of greece. We also have the case in 1911 where he opposed the parliament in removing the king's right to veto laws (even though he wouldn't use it until WW2). Haakon would need to be convinced, but it would not be against his character.

Hope I did not come across as snarky with my answers.
 
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The primary reason Haakon is considered a national hero is his stubborn defiance against the germans whom requested him twice to allow quisling to form a government. Another reason is that Haakon doggedly resisted against a supperior opponent as long as he could, and only evacuated when there was no other choice (and he needed to be convinced to evacuate to England instead of enduring the occupation with the people).
In short he never gave up and never yielded an inch to the germans.

There is nothing in his character that would suggest that he would not take power if a majority of the people asked him to. He considered himself as a servant of the people, and if the people wanted him to take power there's every chance that he would (especially with crown prince Olav encouraging him on). Haakon famously asked for a plebicite before accepting the offer to become the king of Norway, that was because he did not want to come accross as a foreign monarch forced upon the people, like the king of greece. We also have the case in 1911 where he opposed the parliament in removing the king's right to veto laws (even though he wouldn't use it until WW2). Haakon would need to be convinced, but it would not be against his character.

Hope I did not come across as too snarky with my answers.
Totally agree. He was fine with becoming king as long as the people wanted it. If the people asked for him the come to power he surely would have done it.
 
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Also...I'd appreciate keeping your anti-monarchist comments for yourself, just because you don't like it/don't believe in it doesn't mean you should be careless.
I think the Paradox fanbase is the the only group of people where all 12 serious monarchists are a large enough constituency to even consider.
 
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Its a fairly minor thing, to be fair. I also agree with the developer that this is their vision for Norway's monarchist path (that has historical justification). And I think people are getting a bit touchy about the comments made about monarchism.
Its nothing personal of course. I just want the monarchist path have the monarch. Also for me, the monarchist paths are the reason I pre order and get the dlc.
 
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Its nothing personal of course. I just want the monarchist path have the monarch. Also for me, the monarchist paths are the reason I pre order and get the dlc.

I get that and your opinion is valid. I think the fact the developer has said clearly that their not going to change the focus tree sort of means that you're beating a dead horse at this point.
 
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I'm of two minds about the design of Norway's monarchist path described here.

On the one hand, Haakon VII really, really wanted to be a constitutional monarch, not a ruler. Having the monarchist PM in the national leader role is a fairly clever way to show that.

On the other hand, that's not consistent with how monarchs who chose to rule through the cabinet (Emperor Showa) or likely would have had to do so (Edward VII) are portrayed in-game currently.

I suppose this would not be the only inconsistency in-game, and far from the worst. Of course, I'm an American with can speak maybe a dozen words of Norwegian, so take that opinion as you will.
I went from not caring, to now my opinion is if there's not at least a decision to change rulers I'll genuinely be upset for dozens of minutes. This coming from an American who knows 11 less words than you. Unless Norway doesn't count, then stuck at none.
 
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Well, him being a national hero doesn't mean, that you could convince him to step over his character and take over the country. Wasn't part of what makes him a hero his modesty? Please don't read my comment as an unfriendly one, i just want to understand your point better as a non Norwegian.

I think that how/what he did in reality was what did make him hero and chuch or good king!
I really like that this path follows his conviction and also makes this monarchy three different and just a interesting one! Norvegians can allways be proud of him!
 
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True. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I simply don't want to be seen as a joke. I'm not even a real life monarchist. I just like playing them in hoi4. That's all.
I understood the complaint about derogatory comments about monarchism to be about real world monarchists. I was saying this is one of the only communities where offending monarchists would even be seen as a concern.

I wasn't referring to people who like monarchist trees as monarchists. It's a video game, that would be silly.
 
I understood the complaint about derogatory comments about monarchism to be about real world monarchists. I was saying this is one of the only communities where offending monarchists would even be seen as a concern.

I wasn't referring to people who like monarchist trees as monarchists. It's a video game, that would be silly.
Understood. In all honesty your comment was funny.
 
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