Developer Diary | Opposition Iran

[Ahmadmltft]

This is really bad...national front shouldnt exist here, instead the democratic opposition must be a power struggle inside the constitiutional regime between reza shah and the more democratic figures tho not mossadegh bc at that time he was pretty much a nobody. This is also where muhammad reza's branch must be in not in the alt pahlavist route. Instead the SUMKA path must not at all be there bc they historically literally helped bring down mossadegh and national front although all of that is much later. Fascist-adjacent ultranationalists of the time were loyal to reza shah and the only reason they stopped being so was reza shah's repeated concessions to allies and gradual distancing from germany so instead such a path must be in alt reza shah branch exactly in pro-german sub-branch(which btw needs more stuff for cooperation with italians and japanese too)where it again branches to either make iran fully national socialist under monshizadeh or reza shah co-opt them and makes pahlavi dynasty fascist.

Oh and boy...the communists, they prolly need their own whole post as to what can be there and how much oppurtunity is lost for communist iran content...

Saying that Mossadegh,a renowned member of the parliament for 3 decades before the game start,was a nobody at the time is preposterous.

 

[Arheo]

Also British Raj:

Original: "India: The Raj is the jewel of the British Empire, rich and strategically vital. However, a growing independence movement threatens to disrupt the war effort and dissolve the empire. A large focus tree focused on the struggle of Indian Independence offers many alternate historical paths, including the revival of the East India Company as a corporate nation, as well as the possible freedom of the Princely States and the formation of Pakistan and Bangladesh."

Versus: India: The Raj is the jewel of the British Empire, rich and strategically vital. However, a growing independence movement threatens to disrupt the war effort and dissolve the empire. A large focus tree focused on the struggle of Indian Independence offers many alternate historical paths, including the revival of the East India Company as a corporate nation, as well as the possible freedom of the Princely States, restoration of the Mughal Empire and more.

The former heavily implied that we could play Pakistan and Bangladesh. I don't mind them changing, things. But then they should say so. Doing it quietly, always stinks of trickery.

Pakistan and Bangladesh are still very much part of the Indian narrative (and thus can be freed). You could also play them I suppose, like most releasables. Ironically I would say, that line was removed due to adding content after the first version was written - not because stuff was taken away.

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

Pakistan and Bangladesh are still very much part of the Indian narrative (and thus can be freed). You could also play them I suppose, like most releasables. Ironically I would say, that line was removed due to adding content after the first version was written - not because stuff was taken away.

Would there any events to play as them in their independence war against India/Raj?

I know that Pakistan and Bangladesh has no custom focus trees, but optional availability would be cool for players who seeks for more challenges in ironman games, and anyway it fits the sandbox part of the game, right?

 

[Slippyfopp]

Agree. In my East Indies mod, i implemented that by looking at the prospecting decision's flag.

The corresponding foci would add decision flag (in whatever amount) to the prospecting decision. So that if you're completing the focus, you would not need to prospect it further if the decision flag is already reached its limit.

I hope you can get what i'm trying to say, because decision flag is there for prospecting decision that can be taken more than once.

Yeah, that's the general idea:
taking a resource-prospecting Decision without the required tech or factories by doing a Focus,
or
bypassing a Focus that gives you resources by waiting until you have the tech and factories to take a resource-prospecting Decision.

 

[Lobster Emperor]

I'm a bit disappointed that there is no extra-Islamic path. Even though the Islamic revolution was in the 70s, I think it would have been fun to try and create a path that did something somewhat similar, put all power in the clergy and focus on Iran as a bastion of Shi'a Islam. Perhaps be able to form a pan-Shi'a state that had Bahrain, Azerbaijan, Lebanon and Iraq. I'm not saying we should be able to put a 40 year old Khomeini in charge of Iran, but we should totally be able to put a 40 year old Khomeini in charge of Iran, even if it wouldn't make much sense as he wasn't even a majra' at the time.

 

[Kosaki MacTavish]

but we should totally be able to put a 40 year old Khomeini in charge of Iran, even if it wouldn't make much sense as he wasn't even a majra' at the time.

There are other Ayatollahs in HoI4's timeframe, duh.

 

[Slippyfopp]

I'm a bit disappointed that there is no extra-Islamic path. Even though the Islamic revolution was in the 70s, I think it would have been fun to try and create a path that did something somewhat similar, put all power in the clergy and focus on Iran as a bastion of Shi'a Islam. Perhaps be able to form a pan-Shi'a state that had Bahrain, Azerbaijan, Lebanon and Iraq. I'm not saying we should be able to put a 40 year old Khomeini in charge of Iran, but we should totally be able to put a 40 year old Khomeini in charge of Iran, even if it wouldn't make much sense as he wasn't even a majra' at the time.

If we can turn the Pope into the head of state of a major power, no reason why we can't do the same thing with the Ayatollah.

 

[a_canadian_spy]

You can either keep Reza Shah Pahlavi as a puppet king, or have Davud Monshizadeh, who will be in control of the country following SUMKA's takeover, take the crown instead!

I really like this idea of keeping the Shah!

 

[a_canadian_spy]

If we can turn the Pope into the head of state of a major power, no reason why we can't do the same thing with the Ayatollah.

There was not really a senior cleric to fit into a Khomeini-style role in this time period. Khomeini himself was alive and a cleric at this time but his ideology was not fully formed and he was not yet a senior cleric so it really just wouldn't fit with the timeframe. The Islamic Revolution had a lot to do with being a reaction to a view of a hegemonic, secular western capitalist culture which I don't think we can say exists in the 1930s as fascism and traditionalism were still quite powerful forces around the world.

 

[Duke_Dave]

There was not really a senior cleric to fit into a Khomeini-style role in this time period. Khomeini himself was alive and a cleric at this time but his ideology was not fully formed and he was not yet a senior cleric so it really just wouldn't fit with the timeframe. The Islamic Revolution had a lot to do with being a reaction to a view of a hegemonic, secular western capitalist culture which I don't think we can say exists in the 1930s as fascism and traditionalism were still quite powerful forces around the world.

There was the Goharshad Mosque rebellion in 1935, from there you can easily construct a path towards a clergy rule. The Clergy across Iran sees the Shah as a new Yazid, builds networks, forms cells in military, the Fedayeen are formed early (Historically in the 1940s) and start killing Shah officials. Then a civil war and the clergy forms a council to govern the country or pressures a Marja into becoming the figurehead.

Edit: The Politicization of the Clergy began 1890 with the Tobacco Protest, also during the constitutional revolution in 1906 the clergy played a big role. So according to past PDX standards it can definitely be a path.

 

[Duke_Dave]

Pakistan and Bangladesh are still very much part of the Indian narrative (and thus can be freed). You could also play them I suppose, like most releasables. Ironically I would say, that line was removed due to adding content after the first version was written - not because stuff was taken away.

And that is okay, just maybe have some community manager make a short post, that it was changed. In the case of Iran, the change is a bit odd though. I just have been burnt way too many times with games removing/changing information on the store page without any further information, that even as a PDX fanboy, I feel uneasy when that happens.

 

[Pedram98]

Dude I am Iranian too and consider myself a hardcore Pahlavi monarchist. Yes I too do not view Mosadegh favourably, and yes I agree with you.

But my man, this is a game and people like to play a myriad of different scenarios and I know you and I are gonna enjoy our Pahlavi Iran runs so let's just do that.

How tf does this being a game make mosadegh not a hated figure? I'm answering the dev diary, they called mosadegh one of the most popular figures in Iranian history, that's simply not accurate at all. I'm not asking for him to be removed, if you like to put him in charge of your Iran go ahead, just don't call that man popular.

 

[uncle sia]

Saying that Mossadegh,a renowned member of the parliament for 3 decades before the game start,was a nobody at the time is preposterous.

My friend i think you may need to consider re-learning basic math bc i dont think 4 years of being member of pariliament before retiring and being irrelevant all the way until reza shah's abdication in 1941 amounts to 3 decades of being member of parliament given that 30 decades means a span of 30 years not 4 years.

 

[Duke_Dave]

I saw in the stream that Gholam Yahya Danishian is a general in 1936 that makes no sense, he was 30 years old and not in the military. The same is true of Ja'far Kavian, 36 at game start the latter was even in prison and then in internal exile from 1937 on-wards. He even has an English Wikipedia page. Please PDX fix that. Give Iran some more generals and make those two disappear behind communist civil war focuses.

 

[a_canadian_spy]

There was the Goharshad Mosque rebellion in 1935, from there you can easily construct a path towards a clergy rule. The Clergy across Iran sees the Shah as a new Yazid, builds networks, forms cells in military, the Fedayeen are formed early (Historically in the 1940s) and start killing Shah officials. Then a civil war and the clergy forms a council to govern the country or pressures a Marja into becoming the figurehead.

Edit: The Politicization of the Clergy began 1890 with the Tobacco Protest, also during the constitutional revolution in 1906 the clergy played a big role. So according to past PDX standards it can definitely be a path.

There was still no such thing as Velayat-e Faghi.

 

[Ahmadmltft]

My friend i think you may need to consider re-learning basic math bc i dont think 4 years of being member of pariliament before retiring and being irrelevant all the way until reza shah's abdication in 1941 amounts to 3 decades of being member of parliament given that 30 decades means a span of 30 years not 4 years.

You could say that for like 80% of the famous constitutional figures.

 

[Duke_Dave]

There was still no such thing as Velayat-e Faghi.

Yes, but compared to PDX ideas like Native Americans take over Chile before liberating all of America, the East India trading Company coming back like some kind of Davy Jones Ghost Ship, or the Mughal empire reforming, or the Timurid empire making a comeback after 600 years. A group of ambitious clergyman rallying the discontented against the Shah and then taking power is not that far off.

 

[uncle sia]

You could say that for like 80% of the famous constitutional figures.

Say what? You claimed that mossadegh was a prominent member of parliament for three decades before the start of the game which was a hilariously blatant lie then i explained you about how he only had a brief career in the 20s before completely vanishing from political landscape of iran all the way until 1944. So tell me exactly which part of this can be said about the rest.

 

[Duke_Dave]

Say what? You claimed that mossadegh was a prominent member of parliament for three decades before the start of the game which was a hilariously blatant lie then i explained you about how he only had a brief career in the 20s before completely vanishing from political landscape of iran all the way until 1944. So tell me exactly which part of this can be said about the rest.

Well he was famous enough that the group around Mohsen Jahansoz wanted him to become ruler of the country, after their supposed coup. He had retired from politics in 1925, but he was a well-enough known figure, since he had spoken out against Reza Khan becoming Shah. He also had his connections.

 

[Blemental]

I hope your Islamic Revolution hidden path (though I assume it will branch from the democratic path focus, 'Promise Clergy power') will not be counted as a democratic government. It should lead to an authoritarian theocracy.

It would be a disrespect to Iranians who have given their lives over the past decades in our fight for democracy.