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Economy 2.0 Dev Diary #1

Hello again! We are back with another development diary. This time we look at the economy re-work or as we like to call it “Economy 2.0” set to release within the upcoming two weeks. You’ve shared a lot of great feedback with us, from bringing bugs to our attention to sharing how you feel while playing the game. As we went through your feedback, it became clear that certain systems, particularly the economic simulation, weren’t transparent enough and didn’t allow you enough control over your city. We felt this was important to improve, so for the past few months, we have overhauled several systems based on your feedback.

Before we get into the nitty-gritty of these changes, we want to thank you for the detailed and constructive feedback you shared. It really helped us understand what issues you experienced, what information you lacked, and how we could improve things. We look forward to hearing your feedback following these changes so we can continue to work on improving Cities: Skylines II and make it the best it possibly can be.

Alright, let’s get to it! Our goal with Economy 2.0 was to make the systems more straightforward and responsive, so you can make more meaningful choices and have more control over the various gameplay aspects. This means fewer safeguards and automated systems that work invisibly under the surface and an increased level of challenge. We still aim for the game to be playable without paying too much attention to where and how money and resources flow in the city so new players have a chance to succeed, while still leaving room for experienced players to benefit from optimizing their city. We’ll get into the details below but to give you a quick overview here are the major changes of Economy 2.0:

  • Government Subsidies have been removed to make the economy more challenging and transparent
  • Importing City Services from Outside Connections now has a toggle and a fee
  • City Service Upkeep costs have been increased
  • Calculations for Demand have been improved
  • New calculations for rent and household spending allow citizens to afford to live in Low Density Residential
  • The production chain has been rebalanced to bring tax income to a more reasonable level


THE ECONOMY
A key point in the feedback we received was that the game didn’t challenge many of you when it comes to managing the city’s finances. Striking the right balance is hard. We want new players to be able to dive into the game while still providing players from Cities: Skylines or long-term fans of the city-building genre a challenge. We introduced Government Subsidies in Cities: Skylines II to act as a helping hand as your city got established, allowing them to scale with expenses. But they also removed agency and consequences from the game. Why build a city with a well-balanced economy if the government will cover all the expenses of your Utopia?

We considered several approaches to Government Subsidies but in the end, we decided to completely remove them from the city budget. This puts you in full control of your city’s finances and gives you a reason to consider what you spend your money on and when. It will be up to you to create a profitable city, and when you succeed, you get to take all the credit. If you struggle to get the hang of it, the in-game tutorials are there to help you out and the tips can always be accessed through the Advisor (the question mark in the top-right corner of the screen). And of course, you can always ask us or your fellow players for help.

MONEY
Money makes the world, or in this case the city, go round. In Cities: Skylines II, money circulates both within the city and in and out of the simulation through money sources and sinks. We work with 4 entities in Cities: Skylines II:
  • You, the player/the city
  • Households
  • Companies
  • Abstracted investors

Each of these has ways they can gain or lose money, some of which are preset and automatic, some of which are within your control. Below we have a quick overview of these to give you a sense of how money flows in your city, and how you can affect it.

Money.png


CITY SERVICES
As you can see, City Service construction and upkeep, along with roads of course, are where most (if not all) of your money goes. In Economy 2.0 we’ve rebalanced the costs of City Services which includes a significant increase in the upkeep costs. Our goal here is to give your choices more meaning as your city grows. Is your city’s economy strong enough to afford a University or will you have to increase taxes to pay for it? Can you afford to improve the city’s mail service to make citizens happy or will that have to wait until your economy is more stable? These are the kinds of questions we hope you will be asking yourself as you play with the update.

But services aren’t just available locally in your city. Your neighbors can provide you with garbage trucks or ambulances from Outside Connections if your city isn’t quite able to provide those for your citizens yet. With our initial design, the only cost of importing services (excluding Electricity and Water and Sewage) was the time it took the service vehicles to arrive and perform the needed tasks. Economy 2.0 changes that by adding a fee for importing services, which scales with the city’s population.

Now, we can’t add a fee and not give you a way to avoid it, so we have added a new City Policy called Import City Services. It works as a toggle: When it’s enabled your city can and will import services that are lacking in your city, and when it’s disabled, which is the default, your city relies on what’s available locally. In its current form, it’s an all-or-nothing toggle, but we are considering expanding the service import to give you more control. What do you think, any particular direction you would like us to take? We’d love to hear your thoughts.

CityPolicy.png

City Policies can be found by clicking the City Information button next to the demand bars


LIFE IN THE CITY
While we call this systems rework “Economy 2.0” it affects more than just the economic simulation. To complement both the changes to the financial side of the game and the improvements to the Land Value system in patch 1.1.0f1, we’ve made improvements to Demand, Rent, Education, and Citizen Happiness. These changes affect your citizens’ lives, and how and where they choose to live.

DEMAND
Most noticeable are the changes to how Demand is calculated, allowing it to be more responsive and more accurately reflect the state of the city at any given time. Residential demand has been expanded so the desired density is tied to the size and wealth of households. On average low density residential is the most expensive type of housing as a single household is responsible for the building’s expenses (paying Rent and Upkeep), while residents in medium and high density can split the costs. When wealthier households move into the city, the demand for low density increases, and when citizens with lower wealth, such as students, want to move in, the demand for high density goes up. Similarly, families will want more space, preferring low or medium density homes, while singles are perfectly happy with the smaller homes found in high density apartment complexes.

The type of households that spawn are determined by the average citizen happiness, homelessness in the city, the residential tax rates, available education spots, and open job positions.

Turning our attention to commercial demand, it’s now more closely tied to what households need. The more households consume, the more demand for commercial zones you’ll see. We’ve tweaked the household need for shopping, forcing them to pay rent and consider the garbage fee before going shopping. Furthermore, we have also tied the types of companies that can inhabit commercial buildings more closely to the products citizens consume. This means you’re less likely to see a bunch of the same companies spawn as the simulation seeks to provide a more varied selection of products for your citizens.

Both office and industry demand have been adjusted to a more reasonable level to match the other zone types, and their interactions with commercial have been strengthened, so you can produce what your shops need locally. Additionally, industry now has more workplaces so you can satisfy the demand more easily.

EDUCATION AND WORK
We’ve made tweaks to education before, particularly to encourage more teens to go to high school, but we didn’t quite reach our goals, so Economy 2.0 includes further improvements to the education system. Children always go to elementary school if the city has one with available student spots, while teens have a high chance of going to high school. Some will still choose to work, especially if no school is available, but you should see more teens in high school. We’ve also improved the chance they graduate from both elementary and high school, and for those adults who didn’t get their high school diploma, there is now a chance, albeit low, to apply to a high school with available student spots so that they can graduate.

Teens and adults can both join the workforce if there are suitable jobs for them. However, if they have health problems, such as being sick or injured, they don’t count as employable citizens and will need to recover before they can work. They may find work in the city, if any job positions with their skill level or lower are available, or they may resort to finding work in a neighboring city, though working in Outside Connections is less desirable with this rework.

If they cannot find work, they become unemployed and receive unemployment from the government. However, this option is only available for a limited time, so if you don’t provide them with suitable jobs, they will eventually have no other option than to leave the city as they cannot pay their rent.


BUILDING A BUSINESS
Your city consists of more than just citizens though, many businesses make it their home too, and demand isn’t the only thing we tweaked for commercial, industry, and office. Let’s take a look at what else has changed, starting with production. You already know the basics: One or more input resources are processed and turned into a more refined product, which requires both workers and time. Higher education level workers do this more efficiently (they work smarter, not harder), and each product has a certain amount of work needed to produce one unit. Previously, the game calculated the amount of work needed at the start of the game, but we have changed that to a preconfigured amount to make the game more predictable and allow us to finetune things. Additionally, we have adjusted the amount of work needed to produce a single unit for all products reducing the overall production, which in turn reduces the company profits, and by extension, the amount of tax you can collect from them.

But that’s not all. The price of resources has been adjusted as well as how it’s calculated. It now has two parts: A discounted price paid by industrial companies when they purchase materials for their production, and a normal price for commercial companies to purchase the goods. The two prices are then combined into one as they’re sold to consumers, allowing everyone to profit (hopefully, at least) from the sales. But don’t worry about the consumers, we have also increased the wages companies pay so the citizens can afford both their homes and the resources they need.

Alright, that was a lot of information! With that, we’ll end today’s dev diary, but don’t miss part 2 coming next week where we look at Rent, Building Upgrades, and what happens to existing cities. In the meantime, we’d love to hear your thoughts on what’s to come. Any changes you’re particularly excited about? Any that leave you with questions? Let us know in the comments below.
 
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View attachment 1146430

Households receive Dividends from their employer & wages, for being an employee?

I dont understand. Dividends are paid for investing in a share. Are all employees shareholders automatically of their workplace?
Not necessarily. I suppose Dividends in that case can be considered to be an extra payment, that only happens if the company makes a profit. Does happen in real life.

Wages on the other hand have to be paid, even if the company makes losses.
 
Despawning still happens, but citizens and goods always restart their journey when that happens. As for changes to the traffic simulation, are there anything specific you would hope to see?
I would love to see:
1) The ability to adjust speed limits on roads.
2) Ability to install 2-way stops.
.Standard "no promises" disclaimer, but I'd love to hear what kind of "difficulty dials" you'd find useful. Are we talking about things like higher costs/upkeep that generally affect the financial side? Or are we talking about citizens' happiness or any other aspects of the game you'd like to make easier or harder?
Would LOVE to see toggles for a “hard/realistic” mode. Some toggle ideas (not an exhaustive list):

- Cost for terraforming terrain
- Higher costs to install and maintain all infrastructure (Make installing traffic lights have a cost and upkeep too, they are expensive in real life)
- A cost to bulldoze/dezone buildings and infrastructure instead of a refund, the cost could scale with land value
- Higher unhappiness penalties for bulldozing residential buildings to represent public backlash against taking homes
 
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Standard "no promises" disclaimer, but I'd love to hear what kind of "difficulty dials" you'd find useful. Are we talking about things like higher costs/upkeep that generally affect the financial side? Or are we talking about citizens' happiness or any other aspects of the game you'd like to make easier or harder?
Some ideas:

  • A global multiplier for expences such as services upkeep and maintenance
  • A global multiplier for the city incomes
  • Just like video settings, you could hide advanced modes under the cut, including individual multipliers for
    • separate services cost and upkeep modifiers by category (fire/police/water etc.)
    • service buildings relocation modifier
    • road cost and upkeep, rail cost and upkeep, pedestrian paths cost and upkeep. Preferably with differentiation for different types of infrastructure like surface networks, bridges, tunnels, embankments, street vegetation etc.
    • vegetation cost multiplier - no more free trees! Vegetation removal modifier
  • Demolition multiplier separate for service buildings, growables, and networks
  • XP multiplier separate for active XP gain and passive XP gain (BTW have you considered XP cost for player's failures such as burned down building or a building full of sick people cause a hearse never came up?)
  • Happiness multiplier or well-being multiplier, but TBH they feel meaningless in the game and either this aspect can be reworked or if there's a hidden mechanic related to them then it should be better explained in the game. Right now making cims happy and well means nothing gameplaywise and it's positively correlated with the city income so players can ignore it and focus on money. It would be much more interesting if it were negatively correlated to income so players need to make a meaningful choice, and making people happy could have its own rewards, maybe its own currency, for example, "influence/authority points" that can be spent on some exclusive perks, policies, or buildings... But I digress
  • Despawn timeout multiplier: easy mode for detailers, hard mode for Biffa
  • Section of toggles and multipliers basically for those who want just build, detail, and relax:
    • Buildings collapse from fire switch
    • Fire spread multiplier
    • Chance of getting sick multiplier
    • Sickness and complaints from pollution and deceased bodies switch
    • Sickness and complaints from noise switch
    • Crime consequences switch (money loss, deaths, crime complaints)
    • Car accidents switch
    • So basically everything to turn the game into a "Diorama builder" mode but without making the city look dead where nothing happens
  • Public transport usage multiplier by citizens category
  • City attractiveness multiplier
  • Tourist attractiveness multiplier
  • Natural resources extraction multiplier
  • Dummy traffic multiplier
Of course, some of these multipliers and toggles are cheats so they should disable achievements. Also, it would be nice to be able to export the setting list into a TXT or XML file for easy share with friends and to be able to switch fast between settings when playing different maps.

On another topic:
As for changes to the traffic simulation, are there anything specific you would hope to see?
Day/night modes for transport lines feel broken. For example, I have a day-only train line between two towns A and B (to free tracks for night-only freight) and an alternative night-only bus line. When the evening comes and trains stop to operate cims at the town A are still waiting on the platforms 'till the timeout. But while they wait there for a significant amount of time with no chance to catch a train, all the replacement busses rush to spawn in the nearest depot all at once, immediately clog the town A bus hub and the nearby streets interfering with other bus routes in that area. And they start their route empty because all the cims who want to travel to another town are still waiting for the train. When cims start to realize that they have no chance to get on the train that night, they rush in huge crowds to the bus stop. But half of the busses are already on their way to the town B. Mostly empty. So only a portion of these poor cims had a chance to hop on the bus. With the unbunching mechanic, buses are concentrated on one portion of the line AND the return trip is longer than expected cause every subsequent bus waits at the intermediate stops in order to unbunch. So these hundreds of poor cims wait at the bus station in town A for the busses that are on their return trip. Fortunately the line is not that long and first dispatched busses are able to start a second trip taking some cims home to town B. The two first busses are able to make a 1.5-long trip before the end of the shift and bring cims to town B. The rest of the busses catch the dawn in the middle between A and B and they unload all the passengers at one of the two intermediate stations. So not only some cims waited for a bus the whole night, but they didn't even reach their destination! It happens that the train depot is closer to town B and trains start their shift from town B station and those cims have to wait for them on their return trip from A to B. For the rest of the passengers, the situation repeats, but now in town B. Hundreds of cims start to realize that they won't catch the night bus when trains already departed from the station 30 m away. Fortunately, trains are faster and they are able to make more trips per day so the situation is slightly better, apart from the fact that trains just like busses spawn at once and clog the station approach yard for all the lines, including intercity trains...
1718102081617.png

I feel pity for my poor commuters since neither they nor the transport company have absolutely no brainpower to plan ahead, have no schedule, and have no common sense.

I would propose these changes to public transport:
  1. When pathfinding, cims should take into account the line schedule and discard the trip to the stop if they are not able to catch the last service.
  2. Imagine two tram lines sharing one stretch of a road on a portion of their route. Passengers waiting at a stop on that stretch should choose the first coming tram on that stop if it brings them to the same destination. Basically it should work as cars' dynamic lane switching. Two stops are considered the same stop at the departure if they share a segment and a lane (passengers should not switch to the bus at the edge of the road if they wait on the tram's island stop on the median). Two destination stops are considered equal if they topologically near each other, so the bus stop straight after an intersection should be equal to the bus stop to the right from that intersection on a crossing street, or different platforms of the same bus or train terminal should count as equal.
  3. Depots should have more intelligent dispatching. Rushing all at once at a single stop for later to be trying to unbunch clogging everything around is bad behavior. It is especially bad for night/day-only routes since they have no time to spread evenly.
    1. therefore depots should have a dispatch timer separate per line per stop (p. 3.3.1 below)
    2. more than one depot should be able to service each line
    3. let players set end stops with each stop having several behavior toggles. They could be switches on the stop GUI or better upgrade tools just like road/intersection upgrade tools, and when a tool is selected then all stop labels display corresponding icons. Toggles include:
      1. depots dispatch vehicles on that stop at the start of the shift. Default ON at the end stops, OFF everywhere else.
      2. vehicles can end shifts at that stop. Default ON at the end stops, OFF everywhere else.
      3. vehicles unbunch on that stop. Default ON at the end stops, OFF everywhere else.
      4. Passengers unloading only. OFF by default
  4. Vehicles should wait for unbunching in designated places. IRL buses have a special parking spot at an end station or nearby so the driver can make a break. Tram loops have two or more parallel tracks on the loop. In case of reversible trams, metros, and trains, they have a parallel spur where they can wait. Of course, it's not necessarily true everywhere, but for gameplay purposes, it's crucial on stations with multiple lines.
  5. For trains, planes, and ships let players make a dynamic platform/gate selection. For regular commuter trains, it might not be convenient, but for intercity trains which are more rare it makes sense to designate a pair of platforms to several lines and let trains choose an unoccupied platform. For planes, gate switching is not an exception but a norm. For passengers to switch quicker, give them a temporary speed boost and give a tip to players to choose alternative platforms closer to each other. In the worst case just teleport them.
  6. Give players more clues and statistics over each component of PT:
    1. lines should clearly display on what stretches the potential passenger traffic (how many people want to use this stretch) and the real passenger traffic (what the line actually provides) is the heaviest, the lowest, where is the deficit, and the excess. Include the graph over time just like with the road usage graph.
    2. Transportation overlay should give more info on where the bottlenecks are, overcrowded stops and inefficient routes.
    3. Display where the most transfers occur, to and from which line.
    4. Stops GUI should display the stop usage graph (just like road usage), separate for incoming and outgoing passenger traffic.
    5. Vehicle GUI should display the same graph for each vehicle.
    6. When the route tool is finished, we need a special route tool that shows the complete trip - when a line is selected with that tool, display all the routes associated with that line including foot traffic, line transfers with parts of other lines where/from that transfer happens, drive-and-ride, taxi.
      1718110028332.png
      When an individual cim is selected it shows the complete route for that cim including PT usage.
  7. We should be able to specify line work hours more gradually and be able to include lines for peak morning/evening hours. If depots could dispatch vehicles ahead so they begin operate starting at the end stations at specified hours independently of traffic conditions and distance from depots, then manual time adjusting is not that important.
  8. Also, we should specify how many vehicles operate at certain hours.
    1718119175222.png
  9. Separate passenger and cargo transportation overlay.
  10. Transportation Overview Panel:
    1. It should be resizeable
    2. We should be able to select a line by clicking on it on the map when the panel is open
    3. Line usage shouldn't count when the line is off duh. 0% usage at night for the day lines gives 0 information and is misleading. Bug.
    4. Honestly, I don't know why we need to know the line's length and the number of stops, while there's no information about much more useful information such as how often vehicles come, how long passengers are waiting at the stops, and the median ridership in minutes. Inside both the Overview Panel and the line/vehicle/stop GUI.
    5. Car trips saved (how many citizens chose PT instead of cars given they had a choice) was very useful and satisfying information in CS1. I hope it will come back in CS2.
    6. We should be able to control the price inside the Panel.
    7. Same with vehicle model selection.
    8. Please, expose RGB values and HEX color codes.
    9. Let us select multiple lines for bulk actions.
    10. Lines editable prefixes with end station names or end stations' district names. E.g. "Bus line 2. Birch street - Florence street" or "Subway line 1. Rosewood Grove - Sycamore Town"
  11. Calculate lines' comfort score based on the vehicle model's comfort, stops' comfort, vehicle and stops' occupancy percentage, operation frequency, and vehicles skipped on stops due to overcrowding.
  12. PT vehicles should overcrowd decreasing comfort. Alternatively, make the max comfort output at let's say 75% occupation.
  13. Give players more information of what makes the line successful: whether it be connectivity, service frequency, comfort, speed, etc. What exactly is "well organised public transportation"?
    1718122546074.png
  14. Maybe I am biased, but circular lines are inferior to linear ones and putting them in a tutorial as a base example isn't a good way to teach players how to build a good PT network
    1718122898588.png

Overall the work done on PT in CS2 is much more thoughtful and simply better compared to the prequel, although it's missing some details and there's room for improvement. I hope I didn't forget any thought and ideas I collected during my gameplay.

P.S.: This should have been a standalone post but whatever. It took me six hours to write and I really want feedback and attention :D
 

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What is being done in this patch to address this problem?

I hope new UI screens, more information, more details.

If I click on a household, I want to know everything about them. How much they earn, how much they spend on rent or education or transport. Are they happy about their house? The services in the neighbourhood? Is there enough parking available?

Same for businesses and industries.
This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. Thank you for sharing! As for happiness, we already have a breakdown of what influences it, which can be found when hovering over the happiness section of a household or citizens Selected Info Panel. Similarly, companies have a breakdown of what affects their efficiency.

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@co_avanya

Is income for citizens directly linked to education level or based on education and company profitability?

As an example, can a low skilled worker working for a highly profitable company/industry earn more than a high skilled worker working for a not so profitable company?
If that is the case wouldn't it make sense to tax residents based on income and not education?
It's based on both the job's skill level (which corresponds to the different education levels) and company profitability. When companies are profitable, employees receive dividends, which are essentially bonuses based on the company's profits.

Are there also plans to split commercial and industrial zoning types? I've added two posts in the suggestion channel, but the it could also take the form of setting a district to a certain type of commercial and or industrial to have better control on what types of companies can spawn. Is there anything planned to address this in the upcoming economy patch?
It's currently not planned, but I've seen the request pop up in the community, so it's already made its way onto our community wishlist. Of course, that doesn't mean we'll end up splitting the zones. I'd love to understand this wish better though. Are we talking about a desire to have more control over how the city looks or functions? Is it about reducing how often the same companies appear next to each other? Or something completely different?

I don't get this paragraph.

First of all, how is the price of raw materials calculated?
Secondly, shouldn't the calculation run as follows (all numbers and percentages are just for display purposes):
a) price per raw material
b) plus related wages
c) plus a mark up for profit
where the markup has to be sufficient to cover the taxes AND give a reasonable profit.
(And I have even left out costs like energy, water, services, transportation just to keep the example simple)

Let's say your company produces a one material product.
a) 1 item of raw material (100)
b) related wages (+100 = total cost so far 200)
c) 10% mark up (+20 => 220 sales price)
Sales price minus costs makes a raw profit of 20 before taxes, of which then 10% taxes will be deducted, leaving the company with a profit of 18 per item produced.

You make it sound like any industrial customer would get that product for say 200, while for the household it would in the first instance be the full 220 from above.
But then you add both prices (for whatever reason) and (assumedly) divide by 2 = 210. Else it would be 420 for the household.

So in the first case the household only pays 210, but the producing company doesn't make any profit (and therefore, wouldn't pay taxes as I assume).
In the second case the producing company still doesn't make any profit (no taxes then), but the household pays 420 and the commercial company is profitable like hell.

So, I would really like to know how you are calculating prices in the game. Both locally and "regionally". Please?
Wages aren't used when determining the price of products. Let's use your example of a raw material costing 100 (all numbers are just examples, I can't remember the numbers we use off the top of my head). The industry company pays 100 for the raw materials, turns them into products, and sell them to commercial for 200. Commercial then sell them to customers for 300.

Wages come into play when we look at whether the company made a profit by comparing all their expenses (wages, rent, resource cost, transport costs, and service fees) to their income from sales. Wages and resource costs are fixed values, while rent and transport costs depends on where the company and its buyers are. Lastly, service fees are a mixed of fixed values and values you can adjust in the budget.

View attachment 1146430

Households receive Dividends from their employer & wages, for being an employee?

I dont understand. Dividends are paid for investing in a share. Are all employees shareholders automatically of their workplace?
Essentially yes, though Dividends in the game also cover things like bonuses paid out to employees because of a good year. We just use one term and one calculation for the benefits employees receive when the company they work for does well.
 
It's currently not planned, but I've seen the request pop up in the community, so it's already made its way onto our community wishlist. Of course, that doesn't mean we'll end up splitting the zones. I'd love to understand this wish better though. Are we talking about a desire to have more control over how the city looks or functions? Is it about reducing how often the same companies appear next to each other? Or something completely different?
I'm not the original poster of the two suggestions, but I would like to share my take.

When we say we wanted to "split commercial", industrial, and office zonings, we're talking about commercial zoning, industrial zoning, and office zoning where the same or similar functional buildings (gas stations, local grocery stores with parking lots, pharmaceuticals, etc.) aren't really placed together. We wanted to spread them out, so that in any given commercial / industrial / office zones, you have a diverse variety of buildings catering to different residential and production demands. But we also don't want the game to dictate how varied these buildings will be.

More in-depth control, such as specifying which building of a certain type of industry we want for this particular commercial and/or industrial zone is what I would want. I want to specify where to zone a commercial building that provides oil (petrol station) at in this tiny sector of a road-wide low-density commercial zone. I want to specify which food processing industrial plant will be out here, placed right next to my textile industry factory within this industrial zone. I wanted to specify which pharmaceutical and chemistry plants go right next to the commercial zones selling medicines at. Those sort of finer control over where we can choose which type of buildings for a particular production chain we want them to be in our commercial and industrial zone districts. And then let us handle how we want to manage our production chains' supply and demands on our own.

In other words, we want zones within zones. For example, I want to specify I want buildings catering to the oil and textile production chain in this commercial zone. I want to zone software-only companies occupying these rows of high-rise office buildings in 2 places within a large high-density office zone, and I want finance-only companies in other remaining parts of the same high-density office zone. I want to go down 1 more level of zoning, so we can segregate which production chains we want within a general commercial, industrial, or office zone block.

This is the type of granular control we wanted to see when we have to deal with what we want to focus in our districts, and what sort of specializations we want within the zones we put down.

Again, this is my personal take on this feedback. I look forward to the response of this feedback.
 
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I'm not the original poster of the two suggestions, but I would like to share my take.

When we say we wanted to "split commercial", industrial, and office zonings, we're talking about commercial zoning, industrial zoning, and office zoning where the same or similar functional buildings (gas stations, local grocery stores with parking lots, pharmaceuticals, etc.) aren't really placed together. We wanted to spread them out, so that in any given commercial / industrial / office zones, you have a diverse variety of buildings catering to different residential and production demands. But we also don't want the game to dictate how varied these buildings will be.

More in-depth control, such as specifying which building of a certain type of industry we want for this particular commercial and/or industrial zone is what I would want. I want to specify where to zone a commercial building that provides oil (petrol station) at in this tiny sector of a road-wide low-density commercial zone. I want to specify which food processing industrial plant will be out here, placed right next to my textile industry factory within this industrial zone. I wanted to specify which pharmaceutical and chemistry plants go right next to the commercial zones selling medicines at. Those sort of finer control over where we can choose which type of buildings for a particular production chain we want them to be in our commercial and industrial zone districts. And then let us handle how we want to manage our production chains' supply and demands on our own.

In other words, we want zones within zones. For example, I want to specify I want buildings catering to the oil and textile production chain in this commercial zone. I want to zone software-only companies occupying these rows of high-rise office buildings in 2 places within a large high-density office zone, and I want finance-only companies in other remaining parts of the same high-density office zone. I want to go down 1 more level of zoning, so we can segregate which production chains we want within a general commercial, industrial, or office zone block.

This is the type of granular control we wanted to see when we have to deal with what we want to focus in our districts, and what sort of specializations we want within the zones we put down.

Again, this is my personal take on this feedback. I look forward to the response of this feedback.
I think there's a huge difference between wanting say to split Industrial into Heavy, Light and Warehouse and the level of granularity you're talking about. The former I would support but I have grave doubts about the latter. Part of the genius of SimCity was the way the citizens always had minds of their own and you as Mayor could do no more than provide an environment you hoped would be conducive.

I suspect a big part of the reason cities currently can get silly amounts of repetition of certain buildings is because there simply aren't enough assets in the game yet, which is something that will inevitably improve over time. As Mayor I might get frustrated with the way the citizens behave from time to time but as long as it's rational I can (generally) live with it. I don't necessarily want to be a micromanaging dictator. It's a balancing act that pre-EA SC got pretty right. You could today limit certain things via policies, perhaps, but I think there needs to be a certain stubbornness in what the citizens want to do versus what you want them to do.
 
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The biggest problem I have with current industrial zoning is that any area looks like your typical picture from industrial revolution era
manchester-2.jpg

Where in modern world it is much more... Civilized
industrial-area-aerial-view-with-drone-of-warehouses-fiano-romano-zona-industriale.webp
 
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The biggest problem I have with current industrial zoning is that any area looks like your typical picture from industrial revolution era
manchester-2.jpg

Where in modern world it is much more... Civilized
industrial-area-aerial-view-with-drone-of-warehouses-fiano-romano-zona-industriale.webp
Very true!

I think industrial zoning should be the more modern, civilized version.

Smoke stacks can be reserved for specialized heavy industries, i.e. oil refinery, chemical plant etc.
These are normally big assets and this enables the player to place these in a thoughtful manner where they "fit"
 
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i started a new map and the hospital don't spawn enough ambulances and the hurts don't take away the dead fast enough then i get no demand about 10 min later i get masses of demand and tweaking the taxes does nothing the money coming in goes up and down randomly. i tried to run a map i previously had had my pc running 2 hours really did nothing. when i tride to download this patch there where missing files i had to get steam to redownload them at lest its not crashing eavry 30 like it did before but having an RTX3060, i512400f and 32GB DDR running it off an M.2 drive it should not be having problems. before the update i was not and i feel that nobody is listening.
 
Let's go through some more questions (and sorry to anyone I missed!)


Wages are an expense that companies have to pay, while dividends are paid from any potential profit.


This is the sort of feedback we'd love to hear. If there's any information you feel is currently lacking that would help you become a better mayor, don't hesitate to let us know. Of course, I can't make any promises, but I'm compiling a list for the design team to look at.


Yes, when this patch is live low income households will look for high density homes since they are more affordable. You should also have less wealthy people in high density (assuming of course there is low density homes for sale they can move into).


Despawning still happens, but citizens and goods always restart their journey when that happens. As for changes to the traffic simulation, are there anything specific you would hope to see?


The changes to household spawning and preferences should resolve the situations where wealthy people move into apartments and then complain. They may still become wealthy and look for lower densities/more spacious homes, but that will be reflected in your demand so you have a chance to respond to it.

As for unemployment, it's been a part of the economic system since release. I can't remember if we covered it in one of the dev diaries, but if we did, it was likely briefly along with all the other systems we discussed.


Standard "no promises" disclaimer, but I'd love to hear what kind of "difficulty dials" you'd find useful. Are we talking about things like higher costs/upkeep that generally affect the financial side? Or are we talking about citizens' happiness or any other aspects of the game you'd like to make easier or harder?
Why does this come across as both clueless and demeaning? Clearly the traffic simulation is not great, but instead of addressing anything you want us to come up with specific bugs and ideas? Just go check the bugs section, there's tons of wonky traffic issues that need resolving.

And the "difficulty dials" is just nonsense. If you'd read all the posts, you realize that the creative side of the game loved being able to build their cities with subsidies and a big safety net, while the simulation side craves more challenge budgeting and managing their money. If you want to cater to two totally opposites styles of gameplay, you can't just cram it into one game mode, it just weakens both experiences. Do we really have to spell this out? Just make an easy mode and a hard mode, geeze...

And why can't you just say 'no more teleporting goods'
This is just getting silly guys...
 
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Standard "no promises" disclaimer, but I'd love to hear what kind of "difficulty dials" you'd find useful. Are we talking about things like higher costs/upkeep that generally affect the financial side? Or are we talking about citizens' happiness or any other aspects of the game you'd like to make easier or harder?
I think more of togglable features, e.g. subsidies, if someone wants to play "easy" you give them subsidies, so you (CO) can procede in making the game more challenging in sense of how deep the simulation goes while giving a "rescue circle" for those who don't want to min-max. In general, I'd like to see a more responsive economy with a more complex structure, e.g. the possibility to adjust employees at the city services' buildings given that that's the 90% of cost. Again, the thing is, don't oversemplify just to bring new players, if it penalizes the "old" way of playing, you'll disappoint the already established community, so the best way for you (CO), in my opinion, is to introduce difficulty presets.
 
The biggest problem I have with current industrial zoning is that any area looks like your typical picture from industrial revolution era
manchester-2.jpg

Where in modern world it is much more... Civilized
industrial-area-aerial-view-with-drone-of-warehouses-fiano-romano-zona-industriale.webp
At the very least, we should have an option to place industrial buildings with or without polluting chimneys. I know you can just wait for them to grow and bulldoze that ones that pollute, but not very efficient, is it.

Oh, and industry spewing smoke and pollution definitely still exist in real life. Rich countries have in a large part outsourced them to countries less fortunate than ourselves, but they are definitely still there.
 
Households receive Dividends from their employer & wages, for being an employee?

I dont understand. Dividends are paid for investing in a share. Are all employees shareholders automatically of their workplace?
What CS2 is calling dividends can also be referred to as "profit sharing" in the US. Some companies pay out bonuses/dividends based on their annual profit. For example: For every $1 billion the company profited last year the employees are paid a lump sum bonus of $1,000 on top of their base wage.

edit: I hate not knowing how much the companies & employees are actually earning or what products cost. I get that I'm not a company- but knowing that information would really help with determinng taxes & how I run the city.
 
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