EU4 - Development Diary - 10th March 2016

[the_dinks]

Well, yes - but that's not what's being affected here. PDX are saying that they're able to get more ships into the engagement in coastal waters than in open ocean. Like I say, this seems to me to be counterintuitive.

Paradox's attention to naval history is lacking (Ottomans having Galleys by 1453 is a joke, for example). But this may be a counterexample. In coastal areas, you could easily drag galleys out of the sand/docks and into the water to do combat. This was powerful when you could keep a large chunk of your fleet mothballed and then trot it out when under attack. Maybe this is their way of translating that.

 

[Kollatius]

@Johan could you clarify what does this mean:

Now, there is a restriction in how many ships can fire at a single time in a naval combat. 20 ships is the baseline

There seems to be confusion going on what this actually means.

Main two interpetations seem to be:
A) You can only have 20 ships in a battle
B)Only 20 ships can attack the enemy ships at once but there can more than that in a battle
So which one is closer to the truth?

 

[Quaade]

Nope; Denmark hasn't got any provinces in patches. Development has been added, but no provinces.

Just did a quick sketch, 1st there is a province more in Sweden though that´s just for show... Rest is done according to the boundaries of the state by comparing the images and using some artistic freedom ;-)

EDIT: Forgot Fyn :-D well that´s easy to forget that speedbump on the way but the border should be just like shown in "danske amter 1793-1970

 

[Kliwarrior]

A thing I would see addressed in this DLC is the comparison between galley and big ships (carracks than galleon).
In the XV-XVI century galleys/war_galleys were much more effective as war ship than carracks (early carracks and carracks in eu4 terms) because:

- the number of guns reported (20, 25 in the first two model) were seldom reached (carracks mainly were commercial ships, rearranged for war, except a very little number of "royal ship")
- carracks were of poor handling, effective just at stern wind or at least with beam reach. (sorry for using naval terms, it is wind from behind or at least sideway). Galleys used rows for battle purpose, so they could manoeuvre with any wind (this should be addressed perhaps in further lowering guns or less hull some other ways )

So for pure warfare galley/war_galley should be better or at least equal than early-carrack/carracks.

The drawbacks of galley is the near impossibility to sail for long time in open sea: too little holding for staying weeks without supply, too low side to bear a gale.
In game they should take an hell of attrition just for staying in open water (not just closed sea like Mediterranean waters).

This also will drive to a less automatic choice of building just big ships (that now brings much more power with less forcelimit)

 

[OBRkenobi]

Can we please get an option to turn off the red and purple blockade lines? I always know which provinces I'm blockading (and vice-versa), so for people like me it would just be an ugly visual.

 

[DanubianCossak]

View attachment 163098 View attachment 163098 View attachment 163099 View attachment 163100 View attachment 163101 View attachment 163102 View attachment 163103
Just did a quick sketch, 1st there is a province more in Sweden though that´s just for show... Rest is done according to the boundaries of the state by comparing the images and using some artistic freedom ;-)

EDIT: Forgot Fyn :-D well that´s easy to forget that speedbump on the way but the border should be just like shown in "danske amter 1793-1970

Its so hard to stop once you start adding new provinces eh?

Reminds me of my first EU3 mod.

Balkans with ~250 provinces.

 

[Quaade]

Its so hard to stop once you start adding new provinces eh?

Reminds me of my first EU3 mod.

Balkans with ~250 provinces.

It is, but it´s also because Denmark as a nation had these splits and some cultural differences to each other... Even the language differed from place to place But it was about balancing Denmark and making them a bit more interesting... One or two of the provinces could go, in terms of having a bit larger provinces, like Østjylland having Århus too and Randers being part of Ålborg... But the split is done much like how Denmark was split in 2007 when the boundaries were merged...

 

[DanubianCossak]

It is, but it´s also because Denmark as a nation had these splits and some cultural differences to each other... Even the language differed from place to place But it was about balancing Denmark and making them a bit more interesting... One or two of the provinces could go, in terms of having a bit larger provinces, like Østjylland having Århus too and Randers being part of Ålborg... But the split is done much like how Denmark was split in 2007 when the boundaries were merged...

What im trying to say is, things like this:

Spoiler

are far more likely to appear in mods than in vanilla. So dont hole too much, although, who knows, anything is possible.

 

[Immortal88]

The main problem with naval warfare is that fleets (even the tiny ones) have a 100% chance of "colliding in battle with enemies", if they happen to meet inside enormous sea-zones.

Instead, encounters with enemy fleets inside sea-zones should be chance-based (modified by size and chosen formation and speed of your fleet) and instead of microing every chance-encounter there should be detailed settings where you set the default navy orders (or if you wish, order for one particular fleet). When does your fleet pursue, when do they attempt to flee, when do they attempt to engage fully? All based on your own vs. enemy fleet strength and ship types. This expansion features too much pointless micro*uckery and misses the bigger picture of what is wrong with naval warfare in the first place, (which is modelling ship combat like land combat in provinces) - this expansion still ends with naval warfare resembling nothing real about naval warfare during the historical timeframe.

The bigger tradgedy here is, that now naval warfare might be doomed to remain mediocre forever, because once you slap feature descriptions on the dlc you can't really throw them out the window with some new patch or rehaul further down the line. Whatever the final dlc description advertises as features will remain nails in the coffin that is naval warfare in EUIV.

 

[Artess]

So many good questions and comments in the thread, and not a single dev response. This is disappointing.

 

[Panzerschiffe]

What im trying to say is, things like this:

Spoiler

are far more likely to appear in mods than in vanilla. So dont hole too much, although, who knows, anything is possible.

What goods would the provinces have? Fish or grain? Gold?! Spices?! Slaves?!

 

[Quaade]

What im trying to say is, things like this:

Spoiler

are far more likely to appear in mods than in vanilla. So dont hole too much, although, who knows, anything is possible.

Would like the triangle area as independent and Østjylland thus being smaller, but Vestjylland seems great and ålborg

What goods would the provinces have? Fish or grain? Gold?! Spices?! Slaves?!

Yeah... Since Denmark was known for their gold mines fish in vestjylland (known for their fishers), grain in middle/eastern and southern (that area is quite flat) but I guess Århus could be some sort of production since they were a number of larger cities with more artisans than the countryside

 

[DanubianCossak]

What goods would the provinces have? Fish or grain? Gold?! Spices?! Slaves?!

Coffee and ivory, with a bit of sugar here and there.

Obviously...

 

[shafii777]

Hello everyone, and welcome to another development diary for Europa Univeralis IV. Today, we focus on many of the core aspects of Mare Nostrum, our next expansion.

First, we have completely changed how naval missions work, introducing a unified system that includes settings for when your ships should return to port for repairs and how aggressive the fleets should be.

Naval Missions are selected from the new mission interface, and each mission targets either a sea/coastal region or a trade node. The old missions to Protect Trade, privateer, Hunt Pirates and Explore are available (depending on which expansions you currently own), just as before, but Mare Nostrum adds three new naval missions.

• Hunt Enemy Fleets - Your ships will automatically try to hunt down weaker enemy fleets in the region to sink them.
• Blockade Enemy Ports - This divides your fleet, and attempts to blockade as many ports as possible in the region.
• Intercept Transports - Your ships will protect coastlines in region and prioritize attacks on any transport fleet.

The Detach Damaged feature for Ships has gotten a huge boost in Mare Nostrum. Now, ships that are detached from a fleet will a automatically rejoin their original fleet when they have been repaired.

In 1.16, naval leaders will also get siege pips. Each of those pips will increase blockade efficiency by 10%. If you have Mare Nostrum, you’ll now also able to reassign naval leaders while fleets are at sea, as long as they are within supply range.

Some people have complained about how blockades are not really visible. Now there is also a thick red line on the coastlines where you are blockaded, and a purple one is shown where you blockade.

Naval Combat has gotten a complete overhaul as well. First of all, we removed the positioning mechanic, as it was not terribly useful, and players couldn’t really affect it anyway.

Now, there is a restriction in how many ships can fire at a single time in a naval combat. 20 ships is the baseline, 10% more ships can fire in coastline, and there is a variation of 10% more or less based on the differences between the maneuver ability of each fleet’s commander..

Also, Morale Damage is inflicted on all ships still floating whenever a ship is sunk, with up to 2% damage.

A ship being sunk has a chance of being captured instead of sunk, which depends on the enemy commanders maneuver value. If a fleet retreats, all its captured ships are immediately scuttled.

Stay tuned, because next week, we’ll tell you all about condottieri !

For god´s sake, why do we have to pay for Things wich should be included in EU4 it self? This are elemantary Things for this game so why do we have to pay 14 euros for such Things?

 

[Wagonlitz]

I split the Denmark discussion off to a suggestions thread.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...king-denmark-more-viable-a-suggestion.913122/

 

[EMPEL1585]

Dear Paradox,
Why is there a naval combat width? It makes since to have a combat width on land since there is a restricted amount of space that two armies are able to fight but, on the open sea is there really a restriction to how many ships that can line up in a line and fight.
For straits and rivers, it makes since to have a naval combat but, for some reason coastline increases the combat width of the naval combat width.

Hi William. In fact, "there is" a naval combat width, and not only in straits or rivers. Shallow waters favors the flat bottom ships like galleys or sloops in combat, as history show us in the sand banks of holland or the mediterranean, restricting the battle area to heavy ships. Obviously, in open waters I'm with you.

 

[Benghi Bon]

What im trying to say is, things like this:

Spoiler

are far more likely to appear in mods than in vanilla. So dont hole too much, although, who knows, anything is possible.

I see we get representatives from all three countries here ... the idea to changing Denmark isn't that far of a stretch when you consider that three entire provinces are given to Sweden just willy-nilly here. Though, I think three more provinces for Denmark with decent development might be enough, dunno.

The main points are Denmark is too weak, and often gets annexed by nations like Lübeck because they just cannot fight back in the end, often after Sweden has weakened them in independence wars and following wars. One, its ideas are laughably bad. They need stronger ideas, in general, and could really need something for land. They'll always have to fight off Sweden's laughably high 20% infantry combat ability as a tradition. Two, they have too few provinces. For some reason, Sweden is getting even more provinces, which might be fine if they balanced it out. Provinces don't just add to power of a nation but also makes it harder to annex due to higher warscore cost. There'll also be more to occupy and fight. As it is, Denmark is tiny. Its development versus Sweden is also too low. Will they add more Swedish events in the next patch too, I wonder?

 

[Wagonlitz]

Though, I think three more provinces for Denmark with decent development might be enough, dunno.

I really think Fyn should be split---or some of the southern islands should make up another one, but that would be too small. Fyn was really rich. Having another province in the islands also means that taking the continental provinces (Jylland and Skåneland) gives less war score and hence you will to a larger extent need to occupy the islands before being able to grab provinces from Denmark, which is really historical.

Now whether two or three should be added to Jylland could be discussed. Vestjylland obviously needs to be split; there isn't really much discussion about that. I really like adding Midtjylland, since Viborg remained a place things gravitated around---to some extent at least. Plus there is the myremalm which was mined to great extent in Midtjylland and I think adding an iron province to Denmark would be reasonable.
That leaves Østjylland. Now whether that should just be a single province or split into an interior one and the market towns around Randers, Århus, and Djursland is debatable. I would like that split both for more strategic depth and possibility of raising armies; plus it also ensures that the Østjylland province doesn't get too much development. While historically it was really rich and the area should have that 13 development, I don't particularly like making a single province in Jylland that rich.

There'll also be more to occupy and fight.

Not to mention more opportunity to come back, since more provinces means more possibilities of raising new armies.

 

[EMPEL1585]

I understand that the algorithm to fit the Naval Combat shouldn't be trivial, but I'm just trying to do my bit to help:


If "open waters" then baseline= 20 ships+10% ships of fleet +(10% ships of fleet) x (difference maneuver commanders)
else
(shallow waters): maximun 5 heavy ships in the baseline.
up to 40 galleys can be added to the baseline


combat modifiers
case (no wind): galley's combat skills +50%
case (capturing ships): presence of a leader
three stars: +30% chance
two stars: +20% chance
one star: +10% chance



shallow waters-> combat in sea area with coastline in closed seas as baltic, mediterranean, black, red plus holland shores

 

[DanubianCossak]

I see we get representatives from all three countries here ...

If youre suggesting im Swedish, im not.