• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 11th of June 2019

Welcome once again to the weekly EU4 development diary. I’m neondt, and today I’ll be talking about the French and Provençal mission trees, before handing you over to @Ofaloaf who will have more than a few words to say about the Dutch. I’ll also show you a few new government reforms just for fun.

I’ll start by addressing the elephant in the room: where’s Burgundy? We do indeed have a mission tree for Burgundy, but it is not yet time to reveal it. The Burgundian mission tree is tied to features yet unannounced and to reworks of certain significant events that we are not yet ready to talk about. The same is true of the Pope in Italy, and to a lesser extent some of the German nations. We’ll come back to this once we’ve started to talk about some of the mechanical changes and features coming in the European expansion.

dd_france.png


The French mission tree now stands as one of the most extensive in the game. When we re-worked the mission system during the development of Rule Britannia, France was one of the winners as our policy was to adapt as many old missions as possible to the new system and France happened to have rather a lot of those. The European expansion will go even further, adding 25 more missions for France.

For the sake of brevity we’ll focus only on what’s new rather than covering content you’re likely well familiar with already. Early on in the new tree are missions to develop two crucially important naval bases, neither of which begin in French hands in 1444. These are Brest, in Brittany, and Toulon, in Provence. Each will serve a slightly different purpose. Toulon’s dockyard mission will add a permanent modifier to the province giving Navy Tradition, as well as reducing ship cost and repair time in the province, making it an ideal base for your Meditterainean operations. Establishing the Brest dockyards meanwhile will reward you with an early Drydock building in the province, as well as 5 heavy ships for your fleet, which will be helpful for the proceeding missions which focus on defeating the English. To that end, the first step is to strengthen the Auld Alliance - you must ensure that a friendly nation in the British Isles (doesn’t have to be Scotland but it’s the most likely candidate) has at least 70 development. Completing this mission rewards claims on only those parts of the British Isles owned by England or Great Britain, with the goal of the Defeat the English mission simple being to reduce their power and drive them out of London. With the English defeated, France will truly rule the waves and you’ll have 10% more Naval Morale for the rest of the game.

France also has a shiny new set of missions that deal with its internal situation. Beginning as a feudal state ruled largely by regional nobles, France must move towards centralization in all of its forms. Breaking the power of the nobility is only the first step. Next you must impose religious unity through the institution of the Dragonnades, a set of policies designed to expel heresy from the nation. But it is not enough to rule the state - you must become the state. Crushing all notions of regional autonomy and bringing stability to the nation will enable the L’Etat c’est moi modifier, replacing the old decision of the same name. Also replacing an old decision, Versailles Palace will provide you with a significant prestige boost, some development in Paris, and fire the Commissioning of Versailles event. Next comes the Revolution. Embrace the Revolution or crush it, the choice is yours. Regardless, this will be a turning point for France and will lead you towards establishing a buffer of Client States and ultimately proclaiming French Hegemony over Europe. Moving back up the tree, France must also Establish the Musketeers, possible only under a highly skilled military ruler and fires the reworked and improved Royal Musketeers event. With a disciplined elite regiment of musketeers, you’ll need a place for them to recover from their injuries so that they can return to active service as quickly as possible, and so just must construct Les Invalides. You must have a high land forcelimit, a university in Paris, and at least 20 provinces with a military building. The reward is something I shamelessly stole from @Ofaloaf ‘s Venetian missions - an effect that reduces the likelihood of negative events about ill-health. In addition your manpower recovery rate will be improved by 10% for the rest of the game.

Several additional conquest missions appear throughout the tree. Following the Annex Alsace mission, you’ll be on the path to recreating Napoleon’s campaigns. Invading Switzerland, abolishing the Holy Roman Empire, “protecting” Poland and ultimately attempting an invasion of Russia will be on the to-do list. A successful siege of Moscow will fire the new Fire of Moscow event, bringing utter ruin and devastation to the city. Enforcing the French Claim to Naples will give you a claim on the Spanish crown, allowing you to start a war for the Spanish Succession.

Finally we’ve added new colonial missions for France. France will now be tasked with expanding in South America, establishing the France Antarctique colony. The missions will also follow historical French activities in North America and their struggle to dominate the fur trade through establishing relationships with the native peoples. These missions culminate in a mission to bring liberty, equality, and fraternity to the oppressed colonies of your rivals, supporting American Independence. If you successfully liberate one of these colonies, you’ll be rewarded with permanent access to the Liberation CB. France will also be incentivized to sail eastward. Indian Dominance tasks you with expelling all other European powers from India in the Age of Revolutions (granting cheaper Trade Company Investments), while French Indochina aims at the early conquest of Vietnam.

dd_provence.png


Good King René was a man with a lot of titles. Or at least a man who believed he had a lot of titles. Certainly he ruled as Count of Provence and Duke of Anjou, and Duke of Lorraine through his marriage to Duchess Isabella. Only a couple of years before our start date he ruled as King of Naples before being ousted by the Aragonese. In addition to Naples, René also claimed to be the rightful ruler of Sicily, Aragon, and Jerusalem, and professed through his coat of arms a connection to Hungary.

The Provençal mission tree will task you with making these bold pretensions a political reality. René must begin by finding some way for his claims to be taken seriously, and this can be achieved either by conquering Corsica or reaching 100 total development (Provence begins with 73 in the current iteration of the map). This will grant you cores on Naples. You heard right, that’s cores on Naples, rather than permanent claims. This is a rare case where we feel it makes sense to grant cores as a mission reward, as René lost Naples so close to the start of the game. Retaking Naples will be quite a challenge, but should you succeed the world will recognize you as a King, improving your government rank. You’ll also get permanent claims or Union CB’s (as appropriate to how the political situation has developed) on your rightful possessions in Aragon and Sicily. These campaigns again will be no easy feat, as you’ll likely have to battle the Iberians quite extensively on both land and sea. Accomplishing this task will not be the end of your struggles however. You’ll then be tasked with pursuing the more outrageous claims of the House of Anjou - the Kingdoms of Hungary and Jerusalem. Taking up the mantle of the Crusades will likely put you on a collision course with the mighty Ottomans, while claiming to be the King of Hungary is unlikely to sit well with the Habsburgs. Besides being an opportunity to snag the Good King René achievement, being King of Jerusalem will present some new in-game opportunities which we’ll talk about another time.

Provence also has many somewhat more local and immediate concerns besides the (re)conquest of René’s birthright. Uniting Provence with Lorraine is critical, as is establishing a relationship with the Holy Roman Empire. Joining the Empire, despite its name, need not involve Provence being a member state - becoming the Emperor or abolishing the HRE will also suffice. The status of Avignon is also a concern. Once the seat of the Avignon Papacy, it is no longer quite so vital to the Holy See. It may be possible to convince the Pope to part with the city with some careful diplomacy, or failing that a good old fashioned siege will also do the job. With Avignon integrated into Provence, the logical next step is of course the conquest of all Occitania, and from there the conquest of France itself. The King of Kings mission closes much of the mission tree, requiring in addition 1000 total development. It grants not only the Empire government rank but also a permanent boost to your Legitimacy and a 20% reduction to the cost of Diplomatic Annexation, useful for integrating all of the Personal Unions you’ve likely accumulated along the way.

Good King René was more than a holder of unrecognized titles. He was also a great patron of the arts, sponsoring the Renaissance and patronizing the Church. Completing the Sponsor the arts mission will reward you with the means to Develop Provence, which requires Aix to have at least 30 development and all other provinces in the state to have at least 15. The next priority will be the establishment of the aforementioned naval base at Toulon. Although it is the French national anthem, La Marseillaise was originally a marching song of the Marseille National Guard. This mission requires 80% Army Professionalism, and on completion reward a permanent 25% boost to your Drill gain and decay.

------------------------------------------------

Hey again, @Ofaloaf in the saddle again and it's time to talk about our good pals, the Dutch. EU4's timeframe saw the Low Countries go from a disparate collection of feudal vassals and small duchies into one of the preeminent powers of Europe and, dare I say it, the world. Distilling this rich history into a mission tree, needless to say, has been a heck of a challenge.

NED_missions.jpg


Dutch missions are shared between the Netherlands proper and the Dutch minors that are present in the game in 1444. All of the missions except for the two rightmost mission chains are available to the minors, although the available missions should naturally prod a minor to eventually reach the conditions to form the Netherlands anyways. Their missions are largely concerned with three themes: protecting the Low Countries, getting rich, and going places to get even more rich.

A lot of the early missions are concerned securing and protecting the state's independence; 'Assert Our Sovereignty' straight-up requires the country to be independent and own four provinces, which means if you're playing as one of Burgundy's vassals you'll want to backstab that big wine-colored blob at the first opportunity. 'Sea Beggars', meanwhile, encourages you to build up a respectable fleet of light ships, useful for both harassing your naval enemies in a pinch and hogging all the power in trade nodes.

As the country develops, the scope of its economic interests should gradually push it to look beyond Europe for greater trade opportunities. It starts off humbly enough; historically, the Netherlands began trading in Baltic grain decades before it ever really started investing in transatlantic and East Indies ventures. From its initial forays in the Baltic, however, the Dutch began to rapidly expand, challenging Iberian commercial monopolies by sending their own merchants to places previously visited only by the Spanish and Portuguese.

Soon, two significant trading companies were chartered, the Dutch East India Company (or Vereenigde Oostindische Compangie, known also as the VOC) and the West India Company (Westindische Compangie, WIC, sometimes known with a 'Chartered'/Geoctroyeerde slapped to the front of its name as well). The VOC founded colonies from South Africa to the East Indies, and even briefly had a foothold in Taiwan. The WIC tried to emulate the VOC's wealth and extent in the Americas, but its New Netherlands colony was eventually taken by the British and its main port, New Amsterdam, became the obscure town of New York City, and its attempt to seize Brazil from Portugal floundered. I trust that you can do better than that.

Lastly, the Netherlands has two mission chains solely for it, starting with 'Strengthen the Vroedschappen' and 'Merge the Stadtholders'. Both these chains play into the Dutch Republic government's mechanics and the struggle between the Orangists (big fans of the House of Orange) and the Statists (big fans of being a republic where they get the money and the glory), because all the missions in those chains affect the Orangist-Statist balance of power. None of them require a certain level of Orangist or Statist control, but, for example, if you manage to pull off a Glorious Revolution where the Prince of Orange successfully subjugates Britain, oh man you bet the Orangists would enjoy a boost to their popularity and influence. Any swing from completing a mission can be mitigated with an election or by completing Orangist and Statist missions at the same time, or you can just let politics fluctuate as the fortunes of the Orangists and Statists ebb and flow.

------------------------------

And now back to me for one last thing. We heard you liked interesting new government reforms, and I even heard a few pleas for “stable dictatorships”. Displayed below are three new government forms that are exactly that:

dd_govs.png

[As always, all numbers are WIP and may not represent final values at release]

Protectorate Parliament is a unique government reform available to England only if they choose to side with the Parliamentarians during the English Civil War. It represents the ‘Rump Parliament’ of Lord Protector Cromwell and his successors. The Protectorate Parliament is a tier 1 government reform (and legacy government) that does not have elections, but uses the Parliament mechanics and has a higher absolutism cap than other republics.

The Junker Stratocracy is unique to Prussia, serving as a republican equivalent to the Prussian Monarchy reform. Stratocracy enables the Militarization mechanic, has a very high absolutism cap, and grants passive Militarization gain. Most importantly, rulers are not decided by either elections or by birth. When the ruler of a Stratocracy dies, they are succeeded by the nations’ best General, who will become the new Field Marshal. The Field Marshals’ stats are based on the number of pips they had as a General, much like the Pirate Kings of Golden Century.

Speaking of Pirate Kings, the Board of Admirals reform allows non-pirate republics to abandon any semblance of democracy and give total political power to the Navy, with the Lord High Admiral serving as head of state and new rulers being raised from the ranks of your Admirals. Enacting this reform will require you to complete Naval ideas.

All of these reforms are far from the ideals of republicanism, and so will have a reduced base republican tradition gain.

That’s all from this rather wordy dev diary! Next week I hope you’ll join us for the last in our series of map dev diaries, this time focusing on Austria and the Balkans.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Going Revolutionary France should add more missions to the tree. Also, I think what EU4 greatly lacks is the desire to continue playing into the Age of Revolution. It's kind of like, the game's going to end soon anyway with no meaningful reward in 1821, which leads a lot of players to stop playing during this age. Please give more meaning to play in this age.
 
They are not published but I see no problem entertaining the question.
The bottom 5 starting from least played:
1. Bundelkhand, 5 development OPM vassal of Malwa
2. Mong Nai, 11 development tributary of Ava
3. Baghelkhand, 10 development vassal of Jaunpur
4. Hadiya, 12 development vassal of Ethopia
5. Keonhjar, 4 development vassal of Orissa
I'm sure some of these will get a decent boost to their frequency of use now that we have this info - playing as some small vassal nation in India is a much more interesting prospect if it's the Official Least Popular Nation In The Game™. Maybe you should release this information every few months or so, however long it takes to see meaningful change in the statistics, to give players more incentive to try out these challenging starts.
 
The Flemish and Dutch both have Rhenish/Frankish heritage neither of them have saxon heritage, the frisians have a saxon heritage... did I mistakenly say Flemmish somehwere where I meant Frisian? If so I cannot find it.
To say that the Frisians have Saxon heritage is a gross simplification. They are both North Sea Germanic (together with English). They share the same roots, making them more closely related to one another than to Lower Frankish.
See Diets/Middle Dutch

Only because of the dutch revolt did Holland prosper and did Hollandic became synonimous with Dutch.
Aka, Modern Dutch.
This also isn't right. A few DD's back, I had a discussion on the culture of the eastern Netherlands (Oversticht and possibly Gelre, they should be Westphalian). In this I learned about the Brabatian Expansion, where certain tonal shifts which occured in Brabantian spread to the other dialects. This is a process which occured in Hollandic (southern Holland and Utrecht specifically) untill Flanders and Brabant were (re)conquered by the Spanish. Not to forget that (possibly millions of) refugees from Flanders and Brabant also had some strong influence on the dialect. From then on, the position of Holland in the republic spread her influence in language across all of the 7 provinces. To say it is the more Frisian Hollandic dialect that is Dutch in the north is wrong.
 
Fun fact: France is only the 5th most played country this year, after Castile, England, D00 and Brandenburg.
Brandenburg is the most played country in EU 4 everyone must love Space Marines
 
To say that the Frisians have Saxon heritage is a gross simplification. They are both North Sea Germanic (together with English). They share the same roots, making them more closely related to one another than to Lower Frankish.
Actually it very much not, the original frisian tribe died out even before ck2, the frisians in ck2 and eu4 are saxons who migrated in and took on the name of the older tribe.

Even today frisian and low saxon are very close to one another, andglo saxon may have been a north sea germanic language, english is not, english is a mongrel language whit almost as much french in it as germanic words. Danish is probably closer to Frisian and low saxon than english is.
 
I love that there are going to be some new government reforms (especially tag/culture specific ones)! But this one has some... problems:
Speaking of Pirate Kings, the Board of Admirals reform allows non-pirate republics to abandon any semblance of democracy and give total political power to the Navy, with the Lord High Admiral serving as head of state and new rulers being raised from the ranks of your Admirals. Enacting this reform will require you to complete Naval ideas.
First thing, I can't think of any historical examples of this government (if anyone has an example, let us know!). This would be fine - there's room for what-if scenarios galore in EU4 - but this reform (to me at least) has some pretty major issues. For starters, I don't think I can imagine a likely scenario where I would take +1.00 naval leader fire at the cost of -0.5 yearly republican tradition when my alternatives are +10% land morale or +10% manpower recovery. Neither of these are exactly great buffs but even for a fairly naval-focused state, I think I'd generally take them over the ones provided by the Board of Admirals. That might just be me though.
And then there's the requirements: complete Naval Ideas, something that is very rarely done. I don't think I've ever even taken Naval Ideas, because there just isn't a scenario where they're the best use of the monarch points. Apparently they're somewhat better in multiplayer, but in singleplayer, Naval Ideas are just... useless. There are also a lot of complaints about naval warfare in general. Maybe there's going to be changes in this new patch/dlc that make Naval Ideas and Board of Admirals more reasonable choices, but as things stand it's hard to imagine many scenarios where these features would ever actually be used.
 
To say that the Frisians have Saxon heritage is a gross simplification. They are both North Sea Germanic (together with English). They share the same roots, making them more closely related to one another than to Lower Frankish.

This also isn't right. A few DD's back, I had a discussion on the culture of the eastern Netherlands (Oversticht and possibly Gelre, they should be Westphalian). In this I learned about the Brabatian Expansion, where certain tonal shifts which occured in Brabantian spread to the other dialects. This is a process which occured in Hollandic (southern Holland and Utrecht specifically) untill Flanders and Brabant were (re)conquered by the Spanish. Not to forget that (possibly millions of) refugees from Flanders and Brabant also had some strong influence on the dialect. From then on, the position of Holland in the republic spread her influence in language across all of the 7 provinces. To say it is the more Frisian Hollandic dialect that is Dutch in the north is wrong.

I never said that Frisian Hollandic is the dialect of Dutch in the North.

Hollandic is by definition a mix between Low Franconian and Frisian influences, or at least North Sea Germanic influences.

Hollandic as a dialect emerged as branbants and flemish moved northward replacing the old regions that were inhabited by Frisian speakers, (early middle ages, to around 1200), when the first Hollandic cities popped up they started in the South, such as Dordrecht, Leiden, Delft, slowly moving more north to Haarlem and only later it would encroach on Westfrisian cities such as Alkmaar, Hoorn and others. Which left an Frisian or North Sea germanic influence on the Low Frankish languages.

This is modern linguistics is known as a Substratum, Hollandic started off as a Dordrecht esque dialect, moving more north.

Actually it very much not, the original frisian tribe died out even before ck2, the frisians in ck2 and eu4 are saxons who migrated in and took on the name of the older tribe.

Even today frisian and low saxon are very close to one another, andglo saxon may have been a north sea germanic language, english is not, english is a mongrel language whit almost as much french in it as germanic words. Danish is probably closer to Frisian and low saxon than english is.

This is another misconception of the Tribe of the Frisians.

In all cases we saw a decline in frisian settlement near the end of the roman era, but it remains uncertain what exactly happened in this period afterwards, as the Frisii dissapeared in the geological record, or at least thats what is generally known. What is not as much known is that the Frisians who appeared around the 6th/7th century have any connections with this older tribe.

Because of lack of information about the Frisii themselves we can not really connect the two but that doesnt mean there is no connection.

We see a general cultural trend between the two people or at least between some of the people, that being knowledge of sailing and trading and the fact they seem to have lived on floodhills.

In my eyes, this along with the fact that these peoples called himselves a relatively similar name suggests to me that these were at least related peoples and if not more, they might very well have been a mix between older frisii tribes people mixing with new immigrants from Saxon lands.

Now another issue we have is that there is the languages of the frisians and saxons.

We have the North Sea Germanic Languages, ingveonic as a subgroup of the germanic languages. But nowadays we see them split between Anglo-Frisian and Saxon groups. Why this divide exists is not really known as much, all we know is the differences in Language development where both have a reduction of N sounds, but Anglo-Frisian also includes a K -> Tsj sound morph.

So say in German and Dutch we have Tand and Zahn. While Frisian is Tosk and english is Tooth.
 
Last edited:
A bit disappointed that there aren't any late tier North Africa/West Africa conquest ideas for France. Would have been great to have such ideas without needing to take the Baleric Isles or Sardinia.

Also will Cyprus get missions too? Would be awesome, and also maybe with an expanded mission tree if Jerusalem is formed (perhaps when far enough, a Frankish Levantine culture could be formed too?)
 
This is another misconception of the Tribe of the Frisians.
It's what the history books says, you'll have to do sources if you want to convince me that they're wrong.
Because of lack of information about the Frisii themselves we can not really connect the two but that doesnt mean there is no connection.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence... but it is a quite good indication. Occam's razor applies.
So say in German and Dutch we have Tand and Zahn. While Frisian is Tosk and english is Tooth.
You're comparing with hochdeutsch you should be comparing with platt. Where the word is tenh or tänh. And you chose a word where the english word happens to be somewhat similar, which is only true for about half the words in the English language. If we take another word, say binoculars, it's a latin base in english while in plat and frisian you have Kicker and Kiker. The English one isn't looking so similar now is it?
Or lets look at mayor boargemaster in frisian Börgermeester in platt. Mayor in english. Yeah english and frisian are so similar.

English is only a Germanic language if you look at words which relate to simple things like say body parts, simple family units and farming, all words relating to complex issues are instead either from latin or french. Yeah they did determine that English has more Germanic words than romantic ones but it took sitting down and counting every word in the dictionary to prove that.
 
Last edited:
Just because I find it interesting, any possibility that at some point we can get like some stickied "EU4 Statistics" topic from the developers to get updated somewhat irregularly? Just would be interesting to have the perspective for when people talk about things like how popular nations are by picks, percentage of games running to 1821, number of world conquests completed, etc? Dunno how much it's set up for. Just think it'd be handy perspective to have when people kind of get into loggerheads about how easy/hard/common/rare certain things are.
Maybe you should release this information every few months or so, however long it takes to see meaningful change in the statistics, to give players more incentive to try out these challenging starts.
Now that's a thought.
Can't make any promises at this stage but if we can find the time, it could be done.
Of course that's true for mostly anything we do about EU4 ;)
 
Are we going to see any updates to the trade map? Frustrating that Tunis despite being important to the Ottos/Venice only sends to Genoa and Seville. Would be good if it fed into Venice/Constantinople or even the awful ragusa node
 
It's what the history books says, you'll have to do sources if you want to convince me that they're wrong.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence... but it is a quite good indication. Occam's razor applies.

You're comparing with hochdeutsch you should be comparing with platt. Where the word is tenh or tänh. And you chose a word where the english word happens to be somewhat similar, which is only true for about half the words in the English language. If we take another word, say binoculars, it's a latin base in english while in plat and frisian you have Kicker and Kiker. The English one isn't looking so similar now is it?
Or lets look at mayor boargemaster in frisian Börgermeester in platt. Mayor in english. Yeah english and frisian are so similar.

English is only a Germanic language if you look at words which relate to simple things like say body parts, simple family units and farming, all words relating to complex issues are instead either from latin or french. Yeah they did determine that English has more Germanic words than romantic ones but it took sitting down and counting every word in the dictionary to prove that.
In everyday speech a word of germanic origin is much more common than of romance origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Germanic_and_Latinate_equivalents_in_English

So English is this contrast very germanic, another point of english is that its grammatical structure is closer to germanic than French, lacking many of the conjugation in verbs one would expect from French or Latin.
 
English is only a Germanic language if you look at words which relate to simple things like say body parts, simple family units and farming, all words relating to complex issues are instead either from latin or french. Yeah they did determine that English has more Germanic words than romantic ones but it took sitting down and counting every word in the dictionary to prove that.

that is a very simplistic view. It makes a huge difference if you simply count every word in the dictionary, or if you weight that word with its frequency of usage. after all, most words in the dictionary are hardly ever used. (the pareto principle, or 80-20 rule, applies to words, so 80% of the words spoken make up 20% of the dictionary content) if you take frequency of usage into account, there is a vast shift towards the germanic rooted words.

... and then you haven't even considered grammar.
 
y3rhJX3.png


I'm not sure I like this method of pre fun-policing govt reforms but I guess the existence of this option is better than nothing.

Especially since this option would only be taken for ultimate military power memers, but these two religions are not the final destination for ultimate power memeing, you would pick Shia or Orthodox.
 
Last edited:
Once this DLC hits and augments Netherlands, what will be the unique benefits of having RES PUBLICA, that *other* Dutch-focused DLC?

Or flip the question around - what is *not* included in this new DLC that will be left as a feature that distinguishes RES PUBLICA?
 
y3rhJX3.png


I'm not sure I like this method of pre fun-policing military reforms but I guess the existence of this option is better than nothing.

Especially since this option would only be taken for ultimate military power memers, but these two religions are not the final destination for ultimate power memeing, you would pick Shia or Orthodox.

Don't you understand, my child? Paradox is trying to sheperd you towards the way to optimally convert your lands for free. That's right, don't bother converting them, it's expensive. Let the religious people do the work. Bless you my child.