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EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of April 2016

Hello everyone, and welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. Today we’ll focus a bit on Mare Nostrum, and what was the goal of the features in that expansion and the accompanying patch.


Improve the Naval aspect of the game
The Naval game is something that has received quite a few complaints over the year, so we really wanted to make an expansion on the naval theme.

Some of the features like Sailors and the Combat Tweaks were just too much of a rework of core concepts that they had to go into the free patch.

We’re rather happy with how the naval combat now works, now that quality actually matters, and it is no longer just about who has the most money to maintain the most heavy-ships.

The Naval Missions, and the Repair mechanics was based on our experiences of the Hearts of Iron IV development, and how much more fun it made the naval game, to avoid constant micromanagement. It was one of the main features we built the exoansion around.

The changes to making blockades more visible, and having Admirals that could be good at blockading was a few free features that have proved to be a success as well.


More Peacetime Activities
After Art of War there has been a constant barrage of requests for more peace-time activities. Pretty much every expansion since then have had a large focus on adding more things to do at peace time. El Dorado had exploration related mechanics, Common Sense added Development, Interaction with Subjects & Parliaments, while Cossacks had Estates and Diplomatic Feedback, not to mention all minor actions added for the all.

Mare Nostrum is no exception there, with two major systems to enhance gameplay outside of war. First of all, we reworked how espionage works for the free patch, to make it more of an interactive mechanic, and far more transparent than before. We also made Support Rebels more of a valid option, and added lots of new spy actions.

Secondly, the feature that was the biggest to develop for Mare Nostrum. The Condottieri. We designed and added this because at the end of the day fighting in eu4 is fun. It was also heavily influenced of the fact that HoI4 testing showed us it was great fun helping out in the Spanish Civil War while still building up your own nation. Of course, Eu4 was not really designed to have units checking two sets of allegiances, so the amount of work to get it to the state we have now was enormous.

It is also the only feature that has made the AI able to crush all QA within a few decades, so we had to scale it back a bit when balancing.


Regional Specific Enhacements
Every expansion we try to add unique mechanics to some part of the world, to make for more variation in gameplay.

Besides implementing a detailed map for central and east africa, with lots of new nations and ideas, we added two cool features to make some less popular countries played, while keeping to the naval theme.

There is not much to say about the Slave Raids and Trade Leagues, except that they work, they are fun, and they create diversity.


Community Requested
We also try to add in things that the community requests in each patch, and Mare Nostrum contains two such features..

Unconditional Surrender - This was requested by both SP & MP proponents, and was added to make it possible to get out wars when you have truly lost, without the opponent totally ruining your nation forever.


Timeline Mapmode - I think this feature has been requested since eu1. One of the most

Balance Related
Obviously, these are the features that tend to be not so popular.

Corruption - This solves quite a lot of balance problems, and makes for a more challenging game longterm.

States and Territories - This solves the problems of overseas mechanics which you had to work around and exploit to benefit from. It also gives greater flexibility to the player.


The teams favorites

So, what did the development team like the most from Mare Nostrum?

Condottieri won in a landslide!


0fC0qse.jpg
 
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I'm simply not sure, what is in revenchism mechanic that buff blobs?
Thanks for clarification.

Freudia explains it basically. To receive any benefit from it whatsoever, you must be a nation that is large enough to absorb ~100% or more (separate peaces) war score hit. If not, you die and 20% morale means nothing with no provinces.

In contrast, 500-1000+ development nations can absorb revanchism and recover from the damage, meaning the mechanic as designed is better at resisting coalition damage or a 4v1 on a nation like France than it is for helping something like Saxony or even something like Bahmanis survive.

Worse still, you can just join ally wars and not lift a finger if they're placed well, and enjoy revanchism bonuses based on what they gave away (if that isn't bugged, it should be considered one because it works against the dev team's statements about it).

I can explain why the others are blob buffs too, if it isn't clear.
 
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I can explain why the others are blob buffs too, if it isn't clear.
Others are completely clear, i just mostly don't play aggressive enough to experience massive coalitions to lose a war, and now playing first time since last january or smth like that.
Thanks and i agree thats smth is not working as intended. Revanchism shouldn't be tied to warscore at all, instead to % of taken development of core provs comparing to all cores development or (as state mechanics was implemented) to % of taken development of state core provs comparing to total development in states.
So U are telling that provs taken from our allies gives us revanchism bonus?
 
Looking at the developer diary, I'm not sure Revanchism was designed to protect sub-100% countries (which it clearly doesn't). Wiz even used France as his example. The devs are fine with minor countries getting wiped out, they just wanted something to reduce the likelihood of top-tier powers succumbing to a full meltdown (unless the power is Ming, in which case the meltdown is WAD). Getting Revanchism from your ally's losses was surely not part of the plan though.
 
Looking at the developer diary, I'm not sure Revanchism was designed to protect sub-100% countries (which it clearly doesn't). Wiz even used France as his example. The devs are fine with minor countries getting wiped out, they just wanted something to reduce the likelihood of top-tier powers succumbing to a full meltdown (unless the power is Ming, in which case the meltdown is WAD). Getting Revanchism from your ally's losses was surely not part of the plan though.

Hence why I called it out as actively buffing blobs, among other things. We still haven't received any clarity on exactly why very powerful positions need extra protection for their survival though, or why that makes the game better.
 
Hence why I called it out as actively buffing blobs, among other things. We still haven't received any clarity on exactly why very powerful positions need extra protection for their survival though, or why that makes the game better.

Because France losing one war historically didn't send France on an inevitable death spiral towards oblivion. And, whilst it is, in a sense, a "pro-blob" measure, it tends to be mostly beneficial for the blobs that aren't the biggest, aside maybe from a human player who grows too fast and gets hammered by a coalition (but, then, a human player will probably realise they're going to lose and make sure they don't get completely screwed by the war). It ensures that, if you beat up France once, they don't collapse in a heap and fall apart, never to trouble you again.

There definitely are issues with the mechanic. Allies of the loser getting it when they lost no land is obviously absurd, and the general result of revanchism is that it just allows the country in question to go and beat up someone else with the bonuses, which is somewhat unfair. But, I do understand why they implemented it and, whilst it is, in a sense, "pro-blob", it's not really there to assist making blobs grow, it's just there to make sure that you can't cause other blobs to collapse and then pick up the pieces.
 
Because France losing one war historically didn't send France on an inevitable death spiral towards oblivion.

It didn't in the game either, so that can't be the reason. The reason must be something where the comparison isn't the same between the two alternatives.

Also, history by itself is terrible self-inconsistent reasoning. You need more than history or the argument is inconsistent.

It ensures that, if you beat up France once, they don't collapse in a heap and fall apart, never to trouble you again.

Rather than implementing unstable equilibrium junk, the right move would have been to replace the suicidal "length of war" modifier with alternative modifiers so that the AI doesn't throw the game. That could help nations large and small, and would help more than revanchism even today (largest % of wars is AI vs AI stall-outs, blowing an amount of resources hard to fathom out there in the fog).
 
Corruption
Time of wars and wars are false "Thirty Years War"
Unreal borders
İdeas shouldn't research by adm dip and mil points.
False leader skills.
Unreal nations "Ardalan"
And the other......
 
Hello everyone, and welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. Today we’ll focus a bit on Mare Nostrum, and what was the goal of the features in that expansion and the accompanying patch.


Improve the Naval aspect of the game
The Naval game is something that has received quite a few complaints over the year, so we really wanted to make an expansion on the naval theme.

Some of the features like Sailors and the Combat Tweaks were just too much of a rework of core concepts that they had to go into the free patch.

We’re rather happy with how the naval combat now works, now that quality actually matters, and it is no longer just about who has the most money to maintain the most heavy-ships.

The Naval Missions, and the Repair mechanics was based on our experiences of the Hearts of Iron IV development, and how much more fun it made the naval game, to avoid constant micromanagement. It was one of the main features we built the exoansion around.

The changes to making blockades more visible, and having Admirals that could be good at blockading was a few free features that have proved to be a success as well.


More Peacetime Activities
After Art of War there has been a constant barrage of requests for more peace-time activities. Pretty much every expansion since then have had a large focus on adding more things to do at peace time. El Dorado had exploration related mechanics, Common Sense added Development, Interaction with Subjects & Parliaments, while Cossacks had Estates and Diplomatic Feedback, not to mention all minor actions added for the all.

Mare Nostrum is no exception there, with two major systems to enhance gameplay outside of war. First of all, we reworked how espionage works for the free patch, to make it more of an interactive mechanic, and far more transparent than before. We also made Support Rebels more of a valid option, and added lots of new spy actions.

Secondly, the feature that was the biggest to develop for Mare Nostrum. The Condottieri. We designed and added this because at the end of the day fighting in eu4 is fun. It was also heavily influenced of the fact that HoI4 testing showed us it was great fun helping out in the Spanish Civil War while still building up your own nation. Of course, Eu4 was not really designed to have units checking two sets of allegiances, so the amount of work to get it to the state we have now was enormous.

It is also the only feature that has made the AI able to crush all QA within a few decades, so we had to scale it back a bit when balancing.


Regional Specific Enhacements
Every expansion we try to add unique mechanics to some part of the world, to make for more variation in gameplay.

Besides implementing a detailed map for central and east africa, with lots of new nations and ideas, we added two cool features to make some less popular countries played, while keeping to the naval theme.

There is not much to say about the Slave Raids and Trade Leagues, except that they work, they are fun, and they create diversity.


Community Requested
We also try to add in things that the community requests in each patch, and Mare Nostrum contains two such features..

Unconditional Surrender - This was requested by both SP & MP proponents, and was added to make it possible to get out wars when you have truly lost, without the opponent totally ruining your nation forever.


Timeline Mapmode - I think this feature has been requested since eu1. One of the most

Balance Related
Obviously, these are the features that tend to be not so popular.

Corruption - This solves quite a lot of balance problems, and makes for a more challenging game longterm.

States and Territories - This solves the problems of overseas mechanics which you had to work around and exploit to benefit from. It also gives greater flexibility to the player.


The teams favorites

So, what did the development team like the most from Mare Nostrum?

Condottieri won in a landslide!


0fC0qse.jpg
There's something profoundly wrong with this map, Johan. Palatinate is greatest state of central Europe, first by diplomacy, finally by sheer might + personality. But seems to be missing here . . . (confused)
 
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