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EU4 - Development Diary - 15th of October 2019

Good morning once again, and welcome to today’s dev diary. Following on from last week, I’ll be covering a couple more Imperial Incidents, this time focusing on our reworked Dutch Revolt and Shadow Kingdom.

Another reminder in case you’ve forgotten how Imperial Incidents work:

“The other thing for us to look into today are Imperial Incidents. One thing we wanted to do was to make the Empire feel alive and rife with bickering princes. To that end, we have rolled some existing occurrences throughout EU4 and History, as well as many others, into a system that has the HRE both create and react to issues in Central Europe and the immediate vicinity.

When the conditions are ripe, an Imperial Incident can trigger for the Empire. All member states will be informed of the incident, and it will prominently be displayed in the HRE interface. The Emperor will then have 6 months to make a decision on the incident, with wide-ranging knock-on effects.”

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Let’s start with the Dutch Revolt. You’ll be pleased to hear that this is no longer represented as a potentially endless series of events spawning hundreds of thousands of separatist rebels in your Lowlands provinces. We’ve instead opted to use the Disaster system to constrain the time-frame for when these rebellions crop up. Most conditions should be relatively familiar: don’t have any of the Lowland culture (now including Frisian!) as your primary culture, own at least 5 provinces in the Lowlands region with Dutch/Flemish/Frisian culture, don’t have your capital in the Lowlands region, etc.

We do however have a new set of conditions: there must also be some kind of existing cultural or religious tensions in your Low Countries provinces. In practice, this means owning Low Countries provinces that do not have your religion or have a culture that is not accepted in your nation.

When these conditions are true, the Dutch Revolt Disaster will begin ticking for your nation. When the Disaster fires a large number of rebels will spawn in some of your Low Countries provinces and of said provinces will get extra Unrest until the end of the Disaster. Events will give you the option of fighting additional rebels or granting high autonomy to your Lowlands provinces.

The Disaster ends when one of these sets of conditions is true:
  • The Disaster has been present in your country for 20 years, there are no rebels in your provinces, and you have at least 1 Stability
  • The Netherlands exists
  • You own less than 5 Dutch/Flemish/Frisian provinces in the Low Countries region

If at any point during the Disaster you own at least 5 provinces that are Dutch/Flemish/Frisian culture and either controlled by rebels or 90% autonomous, the Dutch Independence event fires and you’ll find yourself in a bloody war. Not only will the Netherlands be spawned from all appropriate provinces, but an Imperial Incident will begin and all of your rivals will be invited to support the new Dutch state in their quest for self-determination. These events will now directly call your rivals into the independence war rather than simply creating an alliance that is unlikely to be useful for the Netherlands during the initial war, which gives them much more of a fighting chance.

The Dutch Revolt Imperial Incident gives the Emperor a chance to intervene, assuming that the Dutch are not revolting against the Emperor and that the Netherlands are part of the HRE. The Emperor has three options:
  • If the Emperor chooses to support Dutch independence, they are called into the independence war (assuming that it is still ongoing), become an ally of the Netherlands, and get a significant opinion boost with the fledgling nation.

  • If the Emperor chooses not to intervene in the conflict, they lose some prestige and send a clear message that the Empire cares not for the Dutch cause. The Netherlands will leave the HRE after the independence war has concluded.

  • If the Emperor chooses to suppress the Dutch revolt, the Emperor will gain an alliance with the former overlords of the Dutch, and again the Netherlands will leave the Empire after the war is over.

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We’ve also taken another look at the Shadow Kingdom event chain that leads to Italy leaving the Holy Roman Empire. In the past this has set a challenge to the Emperor to force Italy into the Empire often through strange and obscure means. In the European update we’ve turned it on its head; you’ll now need to rein in the Italian Princes that are already in the Empire but who are slipping away from Imperial rule. The Emperor gets an event near the beginning of the game about this state of affairs and what must be done to avert a total loss of control in Italy.

An Italian state is considered “reined in” after it has lost a war (any war) against the Emperor or if it has very good relations with the Emperor. We’ll be displaying which nations are at risk of abandoning the Empire in the HRE interface.

Some time around the 1460’s, an Imperial Incident begins for the Emperor in which he has two options:
  • Continue attempting to rein in the Italians: this begins a timer for the Emperor to attempt to rein in as many Italian states as possible. The risk the Emperor takes here is that failing to hold to this promise will incur a greater penalty to Imperial Authority than simply abandoning Italy early on.

  • Abandon Italy: all of Italy will be removed from the Empire immediately at the cost of 20 [numbers subject to change] Imperial Authority and 10 Prestige.
If the Emperor attempts to keep Italy within the Empire, they’ll get a follow-up event after 20 years. Italian Princes that were in danger of leaving, if any remain, will leave the Empire and the Emperor will incur a penalty to Imperial Authority for each Prince that leaves.If the Emperor has succeeded in reining in every Italian state they’ll gain 25 Imperial Authority, the Italian Princes will remain in the Empire, and certain future Incidents will be unlocked or barred due to your actions.

That’s all for this week! As you can see the Imperial Incidents system has given us a great excuse to go back and revisit some of the game’s oldest and most impactful content, and what I’ve talked about today is far from all we’ve done in this regard. Have a good week, and for those of you attending PDXCON, I’ll see you there!
 
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Does this factor in tolerance? If not then it definetely should. I don't think the Low Countries should rebel if you have 2+ tolerance of their faith.

Overall very cool stuff. The HRE is my favourite region to play in so I am excited to play there (again).

Completing Humanist ideas allows you to bypass the Disaster.

Are secondary participants also counted for winning a war to rein them in?

Yes
 
Kind of sad that one important element of the Dutch Revolt got overlooked: initially, the Dutch were not looking for independence. They just wanted to get rid of Spain. So they petitioned various other courts (England, France among them) to become their liege instead. Nobody wanted it (because nobody wanted a war with the Spanish) so they elected to become independent instead. This could be represented in the game, where very early in the war you could not just support them; you could become their liege if you wanted to risk war with Spain!
It would be nice indeed if as a rival of the Netherlands' owner, you could get a PU or a same dynasty ruler on the newly released Netherlands (England almost got a PU, France a Valois ruler on the Netherlands throne). This would in turn impact the fact that the Netherlands in this scenario would be be a monarchy (as a government type), and not the Dutch republic.
 
Kind of sad that one important element of the Dutch Revolt got overlooked: initially, the Dutch were not looking for independence. They just wanted to get rid of Spain. So they petitioned various other courts (England, France among them) to become their liege instead. Nobody wanted it (because nobody wanted a war with the Spanish) so they elected to become independent instead. This could be represented in the game, where very early in the war you could not just support them; you could become their liege if you wanted to risk war with Spain!

Yeah, war with Spain wasn't an inviting prospect in the age of Tercios and Spain's military glory.

In EU however this could be very different, there's no guarantee of Spain being the foremost military power - or even a GP at all - when the Dutch revolts fire. So tying their destiny to Spain could mean just a very easily acquired subject for England or France.
 
I have to be cheeky and ask will the HRE once united get a unique government?
Still annoys me how you stop accepting like 6 cultures you've been accepting all game and start accepting like Ancient Egyptian and Sumerian the second you form Rome. Kind of unrelated, but endgame tags need a little more justice in terms of government types.

As for the changes to the Dutch Revolt, I'm seriously glad that the rivals actually get dragged in so there is a real fight instead of the dutch just getting totally stomped. Things mentioned earlier on do have me concerned that the Dutch will tend to be weaker if they pop out than before though. The 1/3 success rate isn't very promising.
 
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Netherlands is a successful power in about 1/3 of our overnight games right now, which is about right. This will likely change as development continues so we need to keep checking up on things like this.

Shouldn’t the goal be for a successful Dutch revolt more like 80-90% of the time (or at the very least 2/3s of the time). No offense but a 1/3 success rate strikes me as far too low for a historical event with such a big impact.
 
I think these changes are awesome, and I'm really glad I won't need to contend with all that AE, especially after enforcing a PU on Bohemia (assuming it still has an interegnum). Just a few questions though:

Can Spain reliably get the Netherlands from Austria, perhaps through the "A Very Strategic Marriage" event? How often does Austria pursue the entire Burgundian inheritance and how often does France back down when it happens?

How does one rein in land held by outsiders like the Pope or Venice?
 
Is it still possible for Spain to get the Burgundian's Land while not being the Emperor of the HRE? In your screenshot Lowlands are Spanish, but according to your previous DD only the Emperor can get the burgundian inheritance now

It will still be possible for Spain to get the Lowlands :)
 
Hey @neondt ,

concerning the dutch war of independence, and austrias possibilities to react, i have some questions or suggestions to it.
The Dutch Revolt Imperial Incident gives the Emperor a chance to intervene, assuming that the Dutch are not revolting against the Emperor and that the Netherlands are part of the HRE. The Emperor has three options:
  • If the Emperor chooses to support Dutch independence, they are called into the independence war (assuming that it is still ongoing), become an ally of the Netherlands, and get a significant opinion boost with the fledgling nation.

  • If the Emperor chooses not to intervene in the conflict, they lose some prestige and send a clear message that the Empire cares not for the Dutch cause. The Netherlands will leave the HRE after the independence war has concluded.

  • If the Emperor chooses to suppress the Dutch revolt, the Emperor will gain an alliance with the former overlords of the Dutch, and again the Netherlands will leave the Empire after the war is over.

I feel like there should be a choice for the emperror, to not have the netherlands leave, that does not force him to participate in the war as the dutch ally. How about having another requierement of having the same dynasty with spain as austria, that allows you to decide, wether to support your family in spain, or the empire and its members. But if there is no dynastic connection, even no royal marriage (and maybe not allied, or even rivaled to spain, or whoever owns the land in the region) you should have other option to stay neutral or so. Cause why would the Kaiser help a revolutionist state, or a foreign country to hold on to their posessions inside the hre? (oh lord, i formulated that quite complicated, sorry.)

Maybe you could have the choice to form a compromise, like in reality, where the southern part of the lowlands stayed spanish, and would later become belgium. so that the empire meditates, and forces both sides to a white peace, resulting in this secession?

And also, i know, that the spanish were under heavy fire in this war, but i feel like it´s a bit too much, having all your rivals joining up on you in this war. Because allies in reality and in the game behave so much different. like a war against half of europa is not winnable in the game, but could be won in reality after some decisive battles. What i try to say is, that the ai commits so hard, that spain will never succeed in the war, at least in our rp sessions, when they have suitable rivals. so maybe you could soften that up?
 
I fell like that independence mechanic should be a widely-available mechanism when one's rivals get a chance to freely join any separatists breaking away from their overlord in their vicinity at least.
 
I fell like that independence mechanic should be a widely-available mechanism when one's rivals get a chance to freely join any separatists breaking away from their overlord in their vicinity at least.
You can support and join rebels as is. There's even an achievement for it. You just have to muck around with espionage to do it, so it's kind of a pain.
 
Good morning once again, and welcome to today’s dev diary. Following on from last week, I’ll be covering a couple more Imperial
The Dutch Revolt Imperial Incident gives the Emperor a chance to intervene, assuming that the Dutch are not revolting against the Emperor and that the Netherlands are part of the HRE. The Emperor has three options:
  • If the Emperor chooses to support Dutch independence, they are called into the independence war (assuming that it is still ongoing), become an ally of the Netherlands, and get a significant opinion boost with the fledgling nation.

  • If the Emperor chooses not to intervene in the conflict, they lose some prestige and send a clear message that the Empire cares not for the Dutch cause. The Netherlands will leave the HRE after the independence war has concluded.

  • If the Emperor chooses to suppress the Dutch revolt, the Emperor will gain an alliance with the former overlords of the Dutch, and again the Netherlands will leave the Empire after the war is over.
This implies that the Netherlands forming does not remove the land from the HRE immediately. Last week we were told "Prussia is no longer awarded a shiny Kingdom-rank crown simply for existing." Does this statement apply to forming the Netherlands as well, or rather, does forming the Netherlands not automatically make you kingdom rank anymore? That would be pretty nice for playing one of the Dutch/Flemish/Frisian minors that aspires to forming the tag.
 
You can support and join rebels as is. There's even an achievement for it. You just have to muck around with espionage to do it, so it's kind of a pain.
I am aware of the Espionage and sponsoring rebels. I just believe it's widely underused by both the players and the AI. Also the money cost is often prohibitive and doesn't make all that much sense to me if the rebellion already took place. At the very leat it should be a chosen amount of gold with a specified effect rather than binary decision of either going full on or not at all.