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Hey everyone! Today we’ll continue on the native americans that we talked about last week. Last week we covered the migratory mechanics and how they will change. Of course though several nations in North America won’t be migratory and the ones who are can settle down.

I covered a bit that government reforms will be how native americans reform between their different stages. In total there will be 5 categories, which might not sound like a lot but natives will gain at start reform progress quite slowly and the point is for them to reach the end quite quickly by building up. So let’s cover the different government reforms that will be available.

1600171031234.png


The first two categories of government reforms have some modifiers to them, however there are some unusual ones here. In the first tier under the Chiefdom reform you have the Tribal Development Growth modifier. This modifier increases how much of tribal development you gain each month, regardless if you are migratory or settled. We’ll get to how that’s used for settled tribes. The other interesting modifier is the Oral Tradition reform in the second tier which gives you more reform progress growth, a quite helpful one if you intend to go all the way down to the last reforms.

After those two levels of reforms you will be presented with the option to settle down (if you are migratory). This will enable you to take direct control of the tribal land to grow in and build up your tribe.

1600171502868.png


Once settled you get the option to modernize through a European sponsor. Just like before you will adopt the sponsor's government type and it will make you adopt the institutions that the Europeans have. However if you don’t want to do that you have another option. If you wait just another level of reform you can pick what you want yourself.

1600171801922.png


Now if you have somehow stayed migratory the entire way to the end here, you get a special choice to become nomads of the great plains, essentially adopting the lifestyle of the Commanche after European contact.

1600171862984.png


Here’s a list of all the reforms. Keep in mind things are not final and values given here might change!

Base Reform
  • 0.1 Monthly Reform Progress Growth
  • -25% Land Maintenance Modifier
  • -1 Diplomatic Upkeep
  • -50% Institution Spread
Tier 1
  • Chiefdom Reform: 0.05 Tribal Development Growth
  • Federation Reform: 20% Manpower Modifier
  • Clan Council Reform: -33% Stability Cost modifier
Tier 2
  • Martial Tradition Reform: 10% Infantry Combat Ability
  • Oral Tradition Reform: 10% Reform Progress Growth
Tier 3
  • War Band Reform: 15% Land Forcelimit
  • Settle Down Reform: Stops being migratory
Tier 4
  • Codified Power Reform: -2 National Unrest
  • Trading with Foreigners Reform: Will reform off a European
Tier 5
  • Become Monarchy
  • Become Republic
  • Become Theocracy
  • Become Horde


Next up I want to cover buildings. You can build these already as migratory and they’ll move with you as you migrate, but their main use will be by settled tribes that will have more buildings to build. Mainly it’s the old buildings redone and rebalanced a bit but you’ll see some interesting effects to some of these, letting you build up your reform progress gain and tribal development gain as well. Just as with reforms these values are very much work in progress.

Unique Buildings - 200 ducats
  • Fortified House: 10 Land Forcelimit
  • Cermonial Pit: -50% Advisor Cost & +0.2 Reform Progress
  • Sweat Lodge: 1 Diplomatic Reputation
Expensive Buildings - 200 Ducats
  • Palisade: 1 Fort Level
  • Irrigation: 0.05 Tribal Development Growth
Normal Buildings - 100 Ducats
  • Earthwork: 25% Defensiveness
  • Storehouse: 50% Production Efficiency
  • Longhouse: 0.1 Reform Progress Gain
  • Great Trail: 50% Manpower Modifier
  • Three Sisters Field: 50% Trade Goods modifier


Now you’ve seen how you become a settled tribe, so let’s talk about what you do once you’ve become one. As settled you no longer get tribal development from being migratory, i.e you no longer cause devastation and passively gain tribal development. You instead need to build irrigation in provinces held directly by you to grow your tribe. Though you don’t migrate anymore, this development still resides in your capital.

1600172454837.png


That is until you decide to settle it into one of the provinces that is considered your tribal land. This will make the land directly owned by you and up to 10 developments will be moved there. This action costs 50 diplomatic monarch points. You can also decide to settle some development into an already settled province if you so want to, same mechanics apply.

1600172708069.png


Once a province is settled the Europeans can’t just simply colonise it anymore as they could with tribal land and the only way for you to lose control of that now is through a war.

It’s through settling your tribal land, subjugating other tribes while warding off the Europeans that you will grow your nation. All the while dealing with this you invest your resources to develop these provinces so that you can eventually reform and create a nation in the image you want.



I hope you enjoyed the dev diary today. Next one we’ll be covering new federation mechanics & the setup of North America. Cya then!
 
Please detach nomad techgroup/unittype from nomadic government.
There is no mechanical or narrative reason for natives or tribals who adopt nomadic government though reforms to change tech group or unit types. It just results in them spontaneously getting map of central asia, and having their own appropriately flavored units replaced with mongol ones.
 
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So far this is looking quite good, I wasn't expecting Native reforms until the next update, so well done!

I do have a couple questions though:
First, do you have any plans to add more/change up the provinces in the Americas?
Second, will you be adding any more cultures to the Americas? Such as perhaps Beothuk in Newfoundland, for example. Colonial cultures would be nice as well, such as Quebecois, Acadien, Canadian, a colonial culture for the Dutch, Swedish, and Norwegian (Norse), and perhaps a Cajun type culture as well for the French in New Orleans.
Third, could you perhaps look at adjusting some of the colonial regions in North America to reflect those of the colonies that developed? For example perhaps splitting Canada to have one for Ontario and Quebec (Upper and Lower Canada), the Maritimes (Acadia), and the west (Hudson's Bay Company).
On that same note, could you perhaps look into a special mechanic for the HBC land in Canada? As that was sparsely settled, with most Europeans wintering solely in the various forts in small numbers, whilst the Indigenous people populated the land in great numbers, all the way up until the late 1800's when westward settlement really began, post confederation. With this idea, would you be able to also look into the development of the Métis culture? As they were an important aspect of colonial Canada and their culture played an important role in settling the West, especially in and around the Manitoba/Winnipeg region.
Fifth, could you look into perhaps implementing some feature to reflect that early colonies still had minorities of Indigenous people in them, the conflicts that this caused, as well as the difficulties Europeans had in settling further in land due to these Indigenous tribes scattered throughout? Along these lines, what mechanics are there for the spread of diseases from the Old World to the New?
 
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Looks a lot more interesting than the waiting game we have now, particularly if there are active ways to gain reform progress and tribal development.
I have a question though: if I don't (or can't) pick "Trading with Foreigners Reform" and instead use tier 5 to change government, do I remain a primitive? How do I get access to institutions, ships, etc. if I don't meet a European power?
 
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Speed should be that you would deal with this while Europeans are arriving, you can stay migratory and then just settle right before you convert into monarchy/republic/theocracy, since reforms aren't locked. And yes right now you can only expand tribal land while migratory. You can take tribal land off other tribes to expand. I am not sure if it will stay like this but for now that's how it works.

This seems a bit counter-intuitive. In order to become as large as possible once settled, you first need to spend a long time migratory in order to build up tribal land? This would also mean that the tribes that start out settled with have a harder time expanding their settled land compared to those that start migratory, which sounds a bit strange to me. Or did I misunderstand something?
 
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Going by the description, it kind of sounds like they are gimping the North American civs even more than they are (which is rather unecessary since they dont currently survive to their historical periods now).

It also sounds kind of complicated, we already have the Mesoamerican AI which is utterly unable to handle its own mechanics, isnt this the same case?
Maybe I need to see it in action, but it feels more cumbersome than the current system, and I dont feel like it really fixes their current problem of having to wait for Europe to show up to have interesting gameplay, rather more uninteresting busy work until they arrive.

Finally, one thing that worries me is their inhability to discover land without switching to another non-totemist religion, since it hasnt been mentioned Im curious if it is going to be fixed since its a bug from way before when Westernization still existed.
 
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Please detach nomad techgroup/unittype from nomadic government.
There is no mechanical or narrative reason for natives or tribals who adopt nomadic government though reforms to change tech group or unit types. It just results in them spontaneously getting map of central asia, and having their own appropriately flavored units replaced with mongol ones.

Neondt said earlier that units and especially tech groups are relics of the past, something that they are a bit stuck with now. They have said multiple times that they are not gonna add unit types because it is a lot of work for little added benefit.
 
Hey everyone! Today we’ll continue on the native americans that we talked about last week. Last week we covered the migratory mechanics and how they will change. Of course though several nations in North America won’t be migratory and the ones who are can settle down.

I covered a bit that government reforms will be how native americans reform between their different stages. In total there will be 5 categories, which might not sound like a lot but natives will gain at start reform progress quite slowly and the point is for them to reach the end quite quickly by building up. So let’s cover the different government reforms that will be available.

View attachment 626622

The first two categories of government reforms have some modifiers to them, however there are some unusual ones here. In the first tier under the Chiefdom reform you have the Tribal Development Growth modifier. This modifier increases how much of tribal development you gain each month, regardless if you are migratory or settled. We’ll get to how that’s used for settled tribes. The other interesting modifier is the Oral Tradition reform in the second tier which gives you more reform progress growth, a quite helpful one if you intend to go all the way down to the last reforms.

After those two levels of reforms you will be presented with the option to settle down (if you are migratory). This will enable you to take direct control of the tribal land to grow in and build up your tribe.

View attachment 626624

Once settled you get the option to modernize through a European sponsor. Just like before you will adopt the sponsor's government type and it will make you adopt the institutions that the Europeans have. However if you don’t want to do that you have another option. If you wait just another level of reform you can pick what you want yourself.

View attachment 626631

Now if you have somehow stayed migratory the entire way to the end here, you get a special choice to become nomads of the great plains, essentially adopting the lifestyle of the Commanche after European contact.

View attachment 626632

Here’s a list of all the reforms. Keep in mind things are not final and values given here might change!

Base Reform
  • 0.1 Monthly Reform Progress Growth
  • -25% Land Maintenance Modifier
  • -1 Diplomatic Upkeep
  • -50% Institution Spread
Tier 1
  • Chiefdom Reform: 0.05 Tribal Development Growth
  • Federation Reform: 20% Manpower Modifier
  • Clan Council Reform: -33% Stability Cost modifier
Tier 2
  • Martial Tradition Reform: 10% Infantry Combat Ability
  • Oral Tradition Reform: 10% Reform Progress Growth
Tier 3
  • War Band Reform: 15% Land Forcelimit
  • Settle Down Reform: Stops being migratory
Tier 4
  • Codified Power Reform: -2 National Unrest
  • Trading with Foreigners Reform: Will reform off a European
Tier 5
  • Become Monarchy
  • Become Republic
  • Become Theocracy
  • Become Horde


Next up I want to cover buildings. You can build these already as migratory and they’ll move with you as you migrate, but their main use will be by settled tribes that will have more buildings to build. Mainly it’s the old buildings redone and rebalanced a bit but you’ll see some interesting effects to some of these, letting you build up your reform progress gain and tribal development gain as well. Just as with reforms these values are very much work in progress.

Unique Buildings - 200 ducats
  • Fortified House: 10 Land Forcelimit
  • Cermonial Pit: -50% Advisor Cost & +0.2 Reform Progress
  • Sweat Lodge: 1 Diplomatic Reputation
Expensive Buildings - 200 Ducats
  • Palisade: 1 Fort Level
  • Irrigation: 0.05 Tribal Development Growth
Normal Buildings - 100 Ducats
  • Earthwork: 25% Defensiveness
  • Storehouse: 50% Production Efficiency
  • Longhouse: 0.1 Reform Progress Gain
  • Great Trail: 50% Manpower Modifier
  • Three Sisters Field: 50% Trade Goods modifier


Now you’ve seen how you become a settled tribe, so let’s talk about what you do once you’ve become one. As settled you no longer get tribal development from being migratory, i.e you no longer cause devastation and passively gain tribal development. You instead need to build irrigation in provinces held directly by you to grow your tribe. Though you don’t migrate anymore, this development still resides in your capital.

View attachment 626635

That is until you decide to settle it into one of the provinces that is considered your tribal land. This will make the land directly owned by you and up to 10 developments will be moved there. This action costs 50 diplomatic monarch points. You can also decide to settle some development into an already settled province if you so want to, same mechanics apply.

View attachment 626638

Once a province is settled the Europeans can’t just simply colonise it anymore as they could with tribal land and the only way for you to lose control of that now is through a war.

It’s through settling your tribal land, subjugating other tribes while warding off the Europeans that you will grow your nation. All the while dealing with this you invest your resources to develop these provinces so that you can eventually reform and create a nation in the image you want.



I hope you enjoyed the dev diary today. Next one we’ll be covering new federation mechanics & the setup of North America. Cya then!
Will any of these tribal mechanics be put into tribes in the rest of the world? Or just for native Americans, would be nice as Africans to make tribal land of the gold Coast
 
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Please detach nomad techgroup/unittype from nomadic government.
There is no mechanical or narrative reason for natives or tribals who adopt nomadic government though reforms to change tech group or unit types. It just results in them spontaneously getting map of central asia, and having their own appropriately flavored units replaced with mongol ones.
I suppose, there are lots of hardcodes for government+techgroup in this case, so this is a price we will have to pay for such a welcomed twist - to play american horde. But maybe I'm wrong and your point totally makes sense
 
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Neondt said earlier that units and especially tech groups are relics of the past, something that they are a bit stuck with now. They have said multiple times that they are not gonna add unit types because it is a lot of work for little added benefit.
It's not about creation of new unit types, it's about having North American techgroup with Steppe Nomads government reform. Like you can be English Monarchy with North American techgroup for example.
 
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Are there any ways for inti, nahutal, maya nations to reform without europeans?
 
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Aren't losing the colonist reform will screw the player over royally? You can't really build up a proper power base if you only have 1 province. Conquering the other tribes are a posibility but not sure how exacly this thing going to work while migratory. Also the other tribes may migrate towards or away from you so its seems random whenever you can make progress or not.

Have you guys thought about running a dev clash in the new world only? We then could see how exacly this turns out and what a player can actually do against the impending doom of the arriving gunpowder.
 
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Aren't losing the colonist reform will screw the player over royally? You can't really build up a proper power base if you only have 1 province. Conquering the other tribes are a posibility but not sure how exacly this thing going to work while migratory. Also the other tribes may migrate towards or away from you so its seems random whenever you can make progress or not.

Have you guys thought about running a dev clash in the new world only? We then could see how exacly this turns out and what a player can actually do against the impending doom of the arriving gunpowder.
I mean, doesn't groogy kinda explained this? You OPM ,you migrate, you build up 'tribal development', you pee on land to mark it yours, repeat until you are ready, you settle, you grab the land you pee'd on with tribal development (or grow tall in that one gold province you got) you've stacked. This will be new way of expanding for NA migratory tribes.
 
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Neondt said earlier that units and especially tech groups are relics of the past, something that they are a bit stuck with now. They have said multiple times that they are not gonna add unit types because it is a lot of work for little added benefit.

What? Why would anyone add new unit types? They should just keep the ones they start with.

I suppose, there are lots of hardcodes for government+techgroup in this case, so this is a price we will have to pay for such a welcomed twist - to play american horde. But maybe I'm wrong and your point totally makes sense
I don't think there are any hardcodes that would require steppe horde and nomad techgroup to go together.
 
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Will any of these tribal mechanics be applied to native South Americans? I hope so because I don't like how the natives of the Brazilian region are poorly represented
 
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Going by the description, it kind of sounds like they are gimping the North American civs even more than they are (which is rather unecessary since they dont currently survive to their historical periods now).

It also sounds kind of complicated, we already have the Mesoamerican AI which is utterly unable to handle its own mechanics, isnt this the same case?
Maybe I need to see it in action, but it feels more cumbersome than the current system, and I dont feel like it really fixes their current problem of having to wait for Europe to show up to have interesting gameplay, rather more uninteresting busy work until they arrive.

Finally, one thing that worries me is their inhability to discover land without switching to another non-totemist religion, since it hasnt been mentioned Im curious if it is going to be fixed since its a bug from way before when Westernization still existed.

Actually these mechanics seem a lot easier to work with for the AI than the Mesoamerican mechanics. Handling the government reforms is something the AI already does, it just takes time. Mesoamerican mechanics requires some specific conquest achievements, that are intentionally difficult to reach.
 
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Once settled you get the option to modernize through a European sponsor. Just like before you will adopt the sponsor's government type and it will make you adopt the institutions that the Europeans have. However if you don’t want to do that you have another option. If you wait just another level of reform you can pick what you want yourself.

Can you clarify on this? What if I'm an East Asian or Middle Eastern colonizer? And what if I only neighbor other natives, but one of them modernizes? An ugly issue with the mechanism as it is right now is how one tribe modernizing starts a chain reaction of all tribes modernizing immediately, because one neighbors another!
 
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