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EU4 - Development Diary - 16th of January 2018

Hello everyone!


I am Trin Tragula and this is the first development diary for Update 1.25 - REDACTED. Some of you may know me from previous diaries that have dealt with research, the historical setup and most of all map changes to various regions. This time is no different, I am here to tell you about a region that has received more work in the, as of yet unnamed, update that we are currently working on.


The region around the English channel has been revised before, both in Update 1.12 (Low countries) and 1.16 (France and the British Isles). Still there were some issues with it and detail is lacking a bit when compared to some more recently revised regions like Scandinavia or Hungary (also originally revised in the same update but later updated). For 1.25 it was therefore time to once again focus on overhauling this part of Europe.

As we plan to do in all future regional updates we have also added new texts to the startup screen for interesting countries that lack them in the overhauled region.


Ireland

Ireland.png



While Ireland has long been an English subject on paper the actual authority of the crown was in many ways a legal fiction in 1444. In practice direct English rule has collapsed and does not extend beyond the small piece of land known as the “The Pale” around Dublin.

While the particulars vary the Anglo-Norman earls, peers under the English kings, are in practice independent by most definitions of the word and have become as Irish as the population the govern.

Receding English influence has also allowed many of the older Gaelic clans to thrive and the island is home to several strong Irish kingdoms.

With the English Kings preoccupied with the Hundred Years war in France and internal squabbles over even their own succession the Irish independence seems destined to last. Should England manage to stabilize and be able to focus on the Emerald Isle once again however they risk losing this freedom quickly. Even so Ireland would likely be an unruly region to control.


In the 1.25 update we hope to better show how the various minor states in Ireland thrived as English rule grew weaker and weaker. We hope the new setup will better show how diverse the Island was and offer the player to lead one of the many clans or earldoms of Ireland to perhaps put up a stronger resistance to the English threat or fail and at best hope to rule as an English vassal.

All Irish tags (new and old) will be given individual national ideas, and the old group set will be repurposed (and partly rewritten) to be a reward for uniting the Island.


Playable Tags in Ireland:

  • Munster (New) - Independent Irish Kingdom
    • This tag represents the MacCarthy Mor, leader of the MacCarthys and the hereditary Gaelic Kings of Desmond. Named Munster to avoid confusion with the Earls of Desmond.
  • Ormond (New) - Independent Irish Earldom
    • In 1444 this tag represents the Butler family, the earls of Ormond.
  • Offaly (New) - Independent Irish Kingdom
    • Central Ireland was divided between many minor clans in 1444, most of them Gaelic. When it later fell to English conquest this is one of the primary regions subject to English settlement. In 1444 in EU4 this province is ruled by the Faly O’Connors, but they were really just one of many minor clans in this region.
  • Tyrconnell (New) - Independent Kingdom
    • The O’Donnel kings of Tyrconnell are another native dynasty to Ireland with roots going hundreds of years back.
  • Leinster (Old) - Independent Kingdom
    • In 1444 the Kingdom of Leinster is ruled by the Kavanagh dynasty since the 12th century (the kingdom itself dating many hundred years further back). While close to the Pale Leinster has a history of strong opposition to the English crown and has often been a force beyond its size in Ireland.
  • Clanricarde (Old) - Independent Earldom
    • Another Anglo-Norman dynasty the Burke family rules their part of Ireland in the name of the English king. In practice however they are just as independent as their neighbors and are.
  • Kildare (Old) - Independent Earldom
    • Much like other parts of Ireland the FitzGerald Earls of Kildare are for practical purposes rulers of their own lands but their close proximity to the Pale means they have a closer relationship with the crown and they have often worked more closely with the king.
  • Thomond (Old) - Independent Kingdom
    • The Kingdom of Thomond remains one of the most independent Gaelic kingdoms on Ireland in 1444. Far from the direct reach of the English crown their problems are more related to their immediate neighbors than a distant king.
  • Sligo (Old) - Independent Kingdom
    • In 1444 Sligo is ruled by the Sligo O’Connors. Much like the Faly O’Connors their hold over the region was not as absolute as we show it in the game.
  • Desmond (Old) - Independent Earldom
    • The Earldom of Desmond (not to be confused with the Kingdom of Desmond, a tag we call Munster) rules the richer parts of south-eastern Ireland. Their ties with the crown are not as close as those of their kinsmen in Kildare.
  • Tyrone (Old) - Independent Kingdom
  • The dominant Gaelic kingdom in the north Tyrone is ruled by the ancient O' Niell dynasty. Tyrone was for a long time the most dominant state in the north.
  • Ulster (Old) - Independent State
  • In 1444 this province was home to a larger number of clans, many with close ties to their Scottish counterpart. In EU4 it is ruled by the Maggenis dynasty.

Scotland

Scotland.png


In 1444 Scotland remains a strong regional kingdom, supported by the King’s of France in the south. While the Clans remain influential in Scottish politics, and would likely assert their independence if they felt it threatened, the Kingdom is unified in a way the Irish lords could only dream of. During their time on the throne the Stuarts have strengthened their rule and their defences against the English to the south, while hungrily biding their time to reclaim the last remains of Norse rule in the form of the Norwegian Jarldom of Orkney in the north.

Scotland has not received any new playable country tags in the 1.25 update but the region has been broken up into more provinces to give the Scottish kingdom a bit more depth and staying power. In the South two provinces have been carved out to show that the Anglo-Scottish border is in fact not flat and hard to defend. The addition of the West and East March provinces instead allows Scotland to fight an invader before they reach the farmlands around the capital
The Highlands have also been broken up, ensuring that a resurgent Highlander kingdom will be stronger and stand a better chance of surviving.


England & Wales

England.png


While England was updated once before after release we felt that it was simply not up to date with regions like Denmark or Germany, and that it was too easy to overrun the island of Great Britain for a naval invader. England is arguably one of the historical winners of this period and while England never saw much in the way of foreign invasion it was the scene of two great civil wars.

In update 1.25 England and Wales have been given a thorough rework with many provinces carved out of the existing ones or redrawn to better reflect both the political and economic realities of the time. The Isle of Man has also been made its own province, a naval base in the Irish sea for whoever manages to get control of it.


Added Tags:
  • Mann - Revolter in the Isle of Man province.
    • In 1444 the Isle of Man is an English possession but it was once a kingdom of its own with roots in the now defunct Kingdom of the Isles.


France & Burgundy

France.png


Another “winner” in our timeline was France. The great kingdom that dominated European politics for centuries before imploding to internal unrest and rising reborn as the Revolutionary Empire of Napoleon, ready to reshape the politics of the continent completely.

In 1444 France is the scene of the Hundred Years war, a long conflict over who would rule the populous lands of the Kingdom. The recently concluded treaty of Tours has seemingly restored peace to the region but its stipulations have yet to be carried out in their entirety as England seem reluctant to surrender Maine to the French king.

The 1.25 update have not brought any new countries into being in France but we have revised the French map, especially in the north.

Normandy and the region around Paris are now more detailed, allowing for a less one-sided early campaign between England and France once conflict flares up again. We have also taken the opportunity to shift some of the French development towards the more populated north to better represent the historical economy of the region.

The huge province of Bourgogne has also been broken up to represent the Burgundian border castles such as Semur, with their capital in Dijon receiving an Inland Centre of Trade.


The Low Countries

Low Countries.png


In 1444 the Low Countries are already one of the greatest economic centers of the European continent. Politically many of the states are dominated by the Dukes of Burgundy but under their rule they enjoy considerable autonomy and in time the northern parts would historically form the United Provinces of the Netherlands, an iconic power in the Europa Universalis timeline and a great mercantile and colonial power.

We have felt that when this region was last revisited it was perhaps done so a bit conservatively and this time we have been less concerned with keeping the status quo.

The province of Holland has been broken in two, as has Gelre and Friesland. The Province of Limburg (forever plagued by trying to accomodate the fact that the majority of the county of Limburg would become separated from the city itself in this timeline) has been removed entirely in favor of a separate province for Upper Guelders. The borders have also been redrawn to hopefully better reflect the many border changes in this region during this period in history.

While the development of the Low Countries region was always high (indeed even in 1.24 it is higher than all of England) it has been increased slightly again to better reflect the economic power of these cities. Utrecht, Friesland, Gelre and Holland have all grown by one province each while Brabant, though it remains a powerful force in the region, has lost both a province and a sizable amount of development.



That was all for today! From Ireland to Burgundy we hope that this overhaul will make for a better experience and that it will also make for a more accurate representation of this central region to the developments of the 1444-1820 period.

Next week’s developer diary will be written by @DDRJake and should shed some more light on what kind of update we are making as well as the upcoming Immersion Pack that will go along with it.
 
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Guys we don't know if Spain isnt touched at all

My theory is that all these changes are just to bring the other European powers somewhat in line with the upcoming Spain Immersion Pack. But some people here rather cry instead of waiting for the full picture.

Edit: Yep, hit a nerve. Would be nice to get some actual arguments as response to my posts.
Even though we now know there won't be any changes to Iberia
Lots of speculation here, but I'll clarify that while Iberia and the HRE deserve some real love, this upcoming update and immersion pack will not be their time in the spotlight.
there was a really simple way to know about it. The screenshot of France's new provinces gave it away, Paradox aren't dumb, we would have seen a name change for Vizcaya or a new province that borders Vizcaya. Iberian provinces look nothing like they should. That includes cultures too. Anyway, I'd rather think Paradox are working on it and taking a wee bit longer just to make sure they do it right.

PS: Basque ideas and missions would be really cool. Same goes for other historical Iberian nations.
 
Even though we now know there won't be any changes to Iberia there was a really simple way to know about it. The screenshot of France's new provinces gave it away, Paradox aren't dumb, we would have seen a name change for Vizcaya or a new province that borders Vizcaya. Iberian provinces look nothing like they should. That includes cultures too. Anyway, I'd rather think Paradox are working on it and taking a wee bit longer just to make sure they do it right.

PS: Basque ideas and missions would be really cool. Same goes for other historical Iberian nations.
Don't worry same thing is with Poland, i'm sure both countries will get it's time sooner or later, and imo much sooner for Spain. (probably next content pack)
 
Don't worry same thing is with Poland, i'm sure both countries will get it's time sooner or later, and imo much sooner for Spain. (probably next content pack)
I do hope so, ever since I picked up the game I couldn't get out of my head how wrongly named are some provinces, and sized, too. It's not the end of the world but it's just weird to look at.
 
Very good news, i was hoping that this will be about England, France, and Iberia. The level of detail i see in France, Burgundy, and especially Eire, makes me really wish to play in the region once the update is out. English provinces look a lot nicer, too. However, i'm really hoping for a quick Iberia update, especially having France and England (most likely) buffed.
 
Excellent to see France touched upon, together with the arch-enemy England, with this I hope to see a perhaps more lively Hundred Years War end. My personal speculation would be that France will also be the focus of the immersion pack, given that the United Kingdom has already been the focus in the past, getting their own government form, but this might be wrong as it is a popular country.
 
Not sure why you called Sligo and earldom, when it would be considered a kingdom as much as the other Gaelic lordships.

Generally, by the 15th century, most Gaelic rulers considered themselves lords, as opposed to king, with the words tigerna or taoiseach become more prevalent and, with the exception of Bardic Poetry, rí being slowly phased out.
 
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Excellent to see France touched upon, together with the arch-enemy England, with this I hope to see a perhaps more lively Hundred Years War end. My personal speculation would be that France will also be the focus of the immersion pack, given that the United Kingdom has already been the focus in the past, getting their own government form, but this might be wrong as it is a popular country.

It could very well focus on both the British Isles and France, as people had complained about the Russia immersion pack offering too little content.
 
@Trin Tragula While you're looking at the low countries are there any changes to the scripted independence war? There's an event that gives them the rivals of their opponents as potential allies but since it counts as an offensive war they never get to call them in
 
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@Trin Tragula Is the reason for not giving the French minor tags a place on the map in 1444 still about balancing? I recall a team member mentioning that the French vassal swarm was simply too strong back when the tags were originally removed.

And if so: Is there really no other way to achieve a compromise, maybe by giving French core land a good amount of autonomy in 1444 or so?
 
I am very dissapointed. Those changes are not what this game needs cause who needs better optimization and game balance if you can add more provinces to already powerful countries?
Also „This game cant take it all”
After 1650s the game runs 2x slower every 50 years. The game is great but we need a new engine or better stability but i doubt if its possible.
 
Germany or Italy update coming soon? Please...
 
Regarding the situation with the two Desmonds I somewhat prefer the idea of the Hiberno-Norman earldom being the one called Munster rather than the Irish kingdom considering the Kingdom of Munster was initially split between Thomond and Desmond, with the earldom coming later.
 
As long as you're changing Ireland, can you fix the nation of Ulster?

The original Kingdom of Ulster (Ulaid) ceased to exist in the 12th century, though the title itself was claimed by the kingdom's rivals, the O'Neills of Tyrone. In 1444, the nation contemporarily known as Ulster was an English earldom ruled by Edward of York. Although once much larger, by the 15th century, the realm was limited to Carrickfergus as well as some lands along the southeastern coast of County Down. Not long after 1444, Edward ascended to the English throne and, in his absence, the earldom's lands were lost to the native Irish. The Magennis clan, meanwhile, ruled an area known as Iveagh, which was to the south of Lough Neagh and not even entirely within EU4's province of Ulster. At the very least, the nation should be renamed to Iveagh.

A better nation to rule this province, though, would be the O'Neill-ruled Clandeboye, who conquered the area from the earls of Ulster in the late 13th century and held it until the 16th. In 1444, their king/chief was Nial More O'Neill, who styled himself as King of Ulster.

It's probably a long shot, but can we also get some actual dynastic coats of arms for the Irish minors that are still using contemporary arms of provinces and counties?

The O'Neills of Tyrone used the red hand of Ulster (which is an Element of the County of Tyrone's coat of arms). Here is a high quality version which is released under the Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license, so you would be able to use it if you would like.

The O'Briens of Thomond used a coat of arms which is similar to England's coat of arms used in the 13th century: three gold lions on a red field, though the right half of the lions were instead argent.

The FitzGeralds of Desmond used a coat of arms which was similar to the FitzGeralds of Kildare. The Kildare FitzGeralds used a red saltire on an argent field, whereas the Desmond FitzGeralds used a red saltire on an ermine field. The ermine field was a symbol of cadency. Here's a quick mock-up I made of it, based on the flag of the Duchy of Brittany made by Wikimedia Commons user GwenofGwened. That flag is released under the Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International license, so you're free to use it if you would like.

The Kavanagh clan of Leinster used a red lion over two red crescents on an argent field.

The de Burghs of Clanricarde used a red cross upon a gold field, with a sable lion standing rampant in the canton.

Sligo is a difficult one, owing to its relative insignificance. You could either simply use the arms of the O'Conor Don, a green oak tree with the roots exposed upon an argent field, or you could use an attributed arms: the oak tree in the right half, with a gold lion standing rampant sinister upon a green field in the left.

One thing to note about the O'Conor Faly clan, which you are adding, is that it is not related to the O'Conor clan of Connacht or Munster. It merely adopted the surname in the 11th century. The arms typically attributed to them are the O'Conor arms, except with the roots within a green patch of ground. This might be what you've utilised, but I can't tell by the image provided.

If you decide to keep Ulster as the Earldom of Ulster, a better coat of arms would be the arms of Mortimer quartered with the arms of the de Burghs of Ulster. If you change it to Iveagh, here are the arms of the Magennis clan. Clandeboye's arms are here.

The arms of Ormond, Tyrconnell, Kildare, and the Kingdom of Desmond are all correct.

Also, if you ever decide that you would like to add additional provinces or touch up borders, here's a very nice image showing the approximate territories of the clans and families in the early 16th century. Unfortunately, I don't remember where I got it, and reverse image searching it just finds smaller versions.
 
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There have been slight regional increases. France gains more from the redistribution of development in the French region than they do from the added development in the region.
So Britain won't get development boost? Considering a gap of development per actual power in history between Europe and ROTW, I hope that there will be no development boost in Europe. Europe should be buffed by system, including development increase through years, not development boost in setup.