EU4 - Development Diary - 17th of January 2017

[Canute VII]

Just some thoughts:

• Giving a province to an estate could decrease absolutism by 2
• Taking a province back from an estate could increase absolutism by 1
• (High absolutism then could decrease land demanded by estates)
• Building a courthouse could increase it by 1
• Developing your capital (or capital state) could increase it by 1
• Developing a non-capital province (or outside the capital state) could decrease it by 1
• Power projection impacting it? Or certain peace deals impacting it (e.g. humiliate rival)?
• Higher absolutism -> higher mercantilism -> higher subject liberty desire??
• ... Etc.?

 

[OBRkenobi]

Its called "Humanism is now mandatory to keep revolts down after you lower anatomy."

Where in the dev diary does it say that lowering autonomy will have less of an impact on revolts?

 

[Golladan]

So, Absolutism Mechanic will be free but to have all the bonuses one has to be great power owning rights of men and also presumably own the next dlc too since you get +1 absolutism as ability. Pretty sums up why i think the base game ain't getting any complete feature at all and is merely adapting around the new dlc. Saddens me to see a mechanic become a mosaic of dlcs

Assuming that there are no other sources of max absolutism?

 

[bbqftw]

@Johan is it necessary to go through the 2nd age to advance to the 3rd age?

What happens if the reformation never fires (incidentally - this would be a cool achievement)?

 

[TheDungen]

@Johan is it necessary to go through the 2nd age to advance to the 3rd age?

What happens if the reformation never fires (incidentally - this would be a cool achievement)?

Asfaik the ages are still bound to years in vanilla.

 

[Incompetent]

Just some thoughts:

• Giving a province to an estate could decrease absolutism by 2
• Taking a province back from an estate could increase absolutism by 1
• (High absolutism then could decrease land demanded by estates)
• Building a courthouse could increase it by 1
• Developing your capital (or capital state) could increase it by 1
• Developing a non-capital province (or outside the capital state) could decrease it by 1
• Power projection impacting it? Or certain peace deals impacting it (e.g. humiliate rival)?
• Higher absolutism -> higher mercantilism -> higher subject liberty desire??
• ... Etc.?

Some kind of interaction between Estates and Absolutism would make a lot of sense, with crippled Estates being a logical counterpart of a highly Absolutist regime.

Changes to Absolutism based on provinces would have to be scaled based on proportion of total development, though, otherwise it becomes yet another 'win more' mechanic for countries that are already blobs by the start of the age. If blobbing out made it very difficult to maintain high Absolutism, (and conversely, tall countries had an easy time going Absolutist), that would actually create a useful negative feedback system for rate of expansion, unlike the various failed 'anti-blobbing' mechanics that are actually just blob protection mechanisms.

 

[Benghi Bon]

Some kind of interaction between Estates and Absolutism would make a lot of sense, with crippled Estates being a logical counterpart of a highly Absolutist regime.

Changes to Absolutism based on provinces would have to be scaled based on proportion of total development, though, otherwise it becomes yet another 'win more' mechanic for countries that are already blobs by the start of the age. If blobbing out made it very difficult to maintain high Absolutism, (and conversely, tall countries had an easy time going Absolutist), that would actually create a useful negative feedback system for rate of expansion, unlike the various failed 'anti-blobbing' mechanics that are actually just blob protection mechanisms.

So essentially, estates would be peeved that the monarch is getting more power?

I mean absolutism seems like a win-more feature for sure. Liberalism is funnily enough not something you earn from in the game as is shown here.

 

[Llyw olaf]

@Johan is it necessary to go through the 2nd age to advance to the 3rd age?

What happens if the reformation never fires (incidentally - this would be a cool achievement)?

How do you prevent the reformation firing in SP? play as the pope? it has always happened in my campaigns, and these days always before 1500, reform desire seems to tick much faster than it used to. I know I'm odd and the majority of players want to get that protestant goodness as fast as possible but I'm getting tired of regular 1480's reformations in my campaigns, felt more dynamic in the past, it's much easier to have a early reformation rather than a later one.

 

[Incompetent]

So essentially, estates would be peeved that the monarch is getting more power?

I mean absolutism seems like a win-more feature for sure. Liberalism is funnily enough not something you earn from in the game as is shown here.

What I mean is that actions to increase Absolutism cause loyalty hits (you're taking their power away), while a high level of Absolutism reduces the effect of Influence. Every voluntary action that grants Influence (Grant Monopoly Charter and so on) also costs you Absolutism, if your current Absolutism is high. Wresting control from powerful interest groups to the State was exactly what Absolutism was about in this era.

So basically, North Korea Mode countries effectively have no Estates (because the Crown has a monopoly on political power), while very pluralist countries get full use of Estates, and maybe some more tools to allow Estates to get high Influence without causing disaster. It's not much of a trade-off compared to 40% AdmEff (I honestly can't see such a huge modifier will ever be part of a 'balanced trade-off'), but it's a start.

 

[Benghi Bon]

What I mean is that actions to increase Absolutism cause loyalty hits (you're taking their power away), while a high level of Absolutism reduces the effect of Influence. Every voluntary action that grants Influence (Grant Monopoly Charter and so on) also costs you Absolutism, if your current Absolutism is high. Wresting control from powerful interest groups to the State was exactly what Absolutism was about in this era.

So basically, North Korea Mode countries effectively have no Estates (because the Crown has a monopoly on political power), while very pluralist countries get full use of Estates, and maybe some more tools to allow Estates to get high Influence without causing disaster. It's not much of a trade-off compared to 40% AdmEff (I honestly can't see such a huge modifier will ever be part of a 'balanced trade-off'), but it's a start.

No, I think it's a very good idea. Incorporating more mechanics to juggle and communicate with eachother make perfect sense. Estates being bothered by losing influence is perfectly reasonable and I like your idea a lot.

 

[Wagonlitz]

So essentially, estates would be peeved that the monarch is getting more power?

That's how I understood it. And it seems really realistic too. Don't know how absolutism was introduced in other countries, but in Denmark it essentially was the king doing a coup d'etat on the nobility estate which led to absolutism. And his predecessors had made the nobility estate really annoyed with how they had had more and more power taken away which led to the nobility estate putting really strict restrictions on the king until he coup'd them. Although we had an actual constitution of the absolutism which was unique, so perhaps things happened differently elsewhere.

Anyway it sounds like a really good idea.

 

[TheDungen]

Now that we have absolutism maybee vassals won't have to take up a diplo slot any more but can instead cause a drain of absolutism. That way exported saves from ck2 can be exported with a lot more vassals and make for a much more interesting game.

 

[Zoston]

May have been answered in a previous dd, but has it been said if it is possible for modders to script dynamic age transitions, so the start of an age isn't linked to a year but to flags? The years feel too railroady for some of the more fantasy mods, but could work great with dynamic triggers.

Most fantasy mods would presumably just disable it outright, it is more the mods in general which will have issues with the system as it doesn't allow for an accurate simulation of history or a fantasy scenario due to the deterministic nature. We haven't gotten any answer though as far as I'm aware.

Obviously, disabling is an option for all mods. But my thought was that historical mods would be able to co-opt the system at least in some ways because it can still reflect general tech progression.

But mostly, I was thinking about the potential for a fantasy mod that uses ages to simulate transitions from tribal -> classical city states -> classical empires -> feudal societies. I think the system would work very well for something like that, but the main issue is that it would want age transitions based on factors in the world (the amount of 'inhabited' provinces, their development, the size of the empires) not just the timeline.

 

[Tavior]

How do you prevent the reformation firing in SP? play as the pope? it has always happened in my campaigns, and these days always before 1500, reform desire seems to tick much faster than it used to. I know I'm odd and the majority of players want to get that protestant goodness as fast as possible but I'm getting tired of regular 1480's reformations in my campaigns, felt more dynamic in the past, it's much easier to have a early reformation rather than a later one.

If you do certain moves as Austria and gain 3 PU (all good ones) and force Center of Reformation to flip back to catholic before they can do lot of harm.

Ensure all of your electors are catholic then religious league WILL fail to fire off.

I am still in middle of a game like that. Notice the year is 1598 and religious league just fail because there aren't any non-catholic in HRE and the last Protestant is Denmark. Ignore the mess that is England they are my PU. I forced them to turn Catholic. They are still cleaning up. I was having problem with enforce religious because of how religious league failed.

Bohemia is also my PU plus Hungary. So I am pretty strong all thing considered.

With how age of absolutism requires you to be on one of the side of a religious league. It would be weird if you didn't earn anything!

 

[TheDungen]

If you do certain moves as Austria and gain 3 PU (all good ones) and force Center of Reformation to flip back to catholic before they can do lot of harm.

Ensure all of your electors are catholic then religious league WILL fail to fire off.

I am still in middle of a game like that. Notice the year is 1598 and religious league just fail because there aren't any non-catholic in HRE and the last Protestant is Denmark. Ignore the mess that is England they are my PU. I forced them to turn Catholic. They are still cleaning up. I was having problem with enforce religious because of how religious league failed.

Bohemia is also my PU plus Hungary. So I am pretty strong all thing considered.

With how age of absolutism requires you to be on one of the side of a religious league. It would be weird if you didn't earn anything!

Yeah it's awesome when it happens, I was at ar with brandenburg when the fors centre of reformation happened in berlin. two month later there was no protestant centre of reformation in germany. Ended up with one in riga and one in england though and the one in riga managed to flip the PLC. The reformed ones spawned in east frisia, zurich and scotland. Those were a little harder to get rid of (never got the one in scotland).

 

[Tavior]

Prostetant and Reformist CoR locations in that run through were kind of funny.

Two different CoR spawned in Switzerland (one of each).... I had to force them to flip back twice. A second reformist spawn in Scotland. That was all for reformist.

England flip to Protestant early, Denmark and Switzerland. That was all for protestant.

My gaining of England as PU actually killed Denmark's CoR too because I forced them to give up the CoR and give it to England to flip it. Otherwise I would have seize it and core it myself but alas not enough coring range to get it.

So all CoR are in effect dead or will be soon. My goal is now to flip the rest back to catholic indirectly slowly or through force. So I can finish the rest of reform and get that kaiser achievement.

 

[Llyw olaf]

If you do certain moves as Austria and gain 3 PU (all good ones) and force Center of Reformation to flip back to catholic before they can do lot of harm.

Ensure all of your electors are catholic then religious league WILL fail to fire off.

I am still in middle of a game like that. Notice the year is 1598 and religious league just fail because there aren't any non-catholic in HRE and the last Protestant is Denmark. Ignore the mess that is England they are my PU. I forced them to turn Catholic. They are still cleaning up. I was having problem with enforce religious because of how religious league failed.

Bohemia is also my PU plus Hungary. So I am pretty strong all thing considered.

With how age of absolutism requires you to be on one of the side of a religious league. It would be weird if you didn't earn anything!

That's great but it's about preventing or delaying the league wars after the centers of reformation appear, the poster I quoted seemed to suggest that you can prevent the reformation even happening, is that even possible? I thought it was guaranteed to happen, it has always happened in my campaigns, I struggle to prevent reform desire getting to 95-100 before 1500 or even 1490.

 

[Tavior]

That's great but it's about preventing or delaying the league wars after the centers of reformation appear, the poster I quoted seemed to suggest that you can prevent the reformation even happening, is that even possible? I thought it was guaranteed to happen, it has always happened in my campaigns, I struggle to prevent reform desire getting to 95-100 before 1500 or even 1490.

Religious League will ONLY fire off if a SINGLE elector turn protestant or reformist. If none of them do then you are in a weird situation where you can just pass reform until the 6th which automatic force Catholic faith on HRE.

My problem was trying to kill far away CoR so I can prevent the negative IA monthly from non-catholic HRE princes/bishop/etc...

From EU 4 Wiki on HRE. Source: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Holy_Roman_Empire#Religious_leagues

After 1550, if one of the Electors (that is not a subject nation) has become Protestant (but not Reformed) and the Empire hasn't been reformed to the point of becoming hereditary, then the religious leagues can be formed.

If you kill CoR fast enough the league will actually not fire off and you just rush the hereditary reform.

I current have about 58 princes and 8 free cities but -.08 monthly IA from 8 non-catholic. As soon all of HRE is catholic that is a whooping monthly .19 IA despite being at war. Otherwise .29 IA monthly.

Assuming I am at peace for 14 year and half, ignoring the free 10 IA on death, I can pass a reform. Assuming that HRE is non-stop at war the form take 22 years instead which isn't too bad.

Right now I am just one reform away from stopping HRE internal war. So at minimum it will take me between 14.5 and 20 years for me to disallow. Then I can just add provinces and build up IA until I am ready to unleash the power of vassal swarm.

 

[Shock360]

Religious League will ONLY fire off if a SINGLE elector turn protestant or reformist. If none of them do then you are in a weird situation where you can just pass reform until the 6th which automatic force Catholic faith on HRE.

My problem was trying to kill far away CoR so I can prevent the negative IA monthly from non-catholic HRE princes/bishop/etc...

From EU 4 Wiki on HRE. Source: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Holy_Roman_Empire#Religious_leagues



If you kill CoR fast enough the league will actually not fire off and you just rush the hereditary reform.

I current have about 58 princes and 8 free cities but -.08 monthly IA from 8 non-catholic. As soon all of HRE is catholic that is a whooping monthly .19 IA despite being at war. Otherwise .29 IA monthly.

Assuming I am at peace for 14 year and half, ignoring the free 10 IA on death, I can pass a reform. Assuming that HRE is non-stop at war the form take 22 years instead which isn't too bad.

Right now I am just one reform away from stopping HRE internal war. So at minimum it will take me between 14.5 and 20 years for me to disallow. Then I can just add provinces and build up IA until I am ready to unleash the power of vassal swarm.

The reformation refers to the CoR FORMING not the league wars

 

[bbqftw]

How do you prevent the reformation firing in SP? play as the pope? it has always happened in my campaigns, and these days always before 1500, reform desire seems to tick much faster than it used to. I know I'm odd and the majority of players want to get that protestant goodness as fast as possible but I'm getting tired of regular 1480's reformations in my campaigns, felt more dynamic in the past, it's much easier to have a early reformation rather than a later one.

Pope or Ottomans is probably best, goal is to kill all Catholic tags before the reformation. The more tags you kill -> the less reform desire gets generated -> the more time you have, so it seems like a horde-esque endeavor in terms of snowballing.

Requires tight play and a bit of luck.

Remember you can force-feed Sunnis and Orthodox countries as well. And the Ottomans are sure to be willing to lend a hand to blow up Hungary / PLC