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EU4 - Development Diary - 19th of September 2017

Good day and welcome all to the Tuesday Dev Diary for Europa Universalis IV. Last Week we took a good look at changes to the Islamic Faith mechanics and today we're going to shine the spotlight on two prominent Muslim nations who shaped the Middle East in the 15th Century. That is to say the White sheep and Black Sheep Turkmen of Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu.

For a long time we have modeled these two nations rather haphazardly as Steppe Nomads but now is the time to give them their own special Government type of Tribal Federation complete with their own mechanics centred around Tribal Allegiance.

On its own, the Tribal Federation Government grants:

-5 years of separatism
-10% warscore cost for provinces
+25% cavalry to infantry ratio

The rise and fall of these Federations will ride on how well they are able to win over the tribal warriors of the region who are fickle to the successes and failures of the Federation. By winning battles and humiliating rivals, a Tribal Federation is able to increase their Tribal Allegiance which will in turn grant stronger bonuses for the country. Conversely, losing battles and being humiliated is a fast track to losing their support and bonuses.

federation 01.jpg

Tribal Allegiance itself will grant no bonuses with at zero, but up to +33% manpower recovery and -3 national unrest as it grows. It will degrade over time relative to your development. Additionally, it can be spent to gain immediate assistance With each action costing 30 Allegiance. :
  • Enlist General: Gain General with 40 Tradition
  • Train Horsemanship: Get +15% Cavalry Combat Ability for 10 years.
  • Conscript from Tribes: Start production of 6 Cavalry units in the capital at 25% build time.
The Inland tribes of Arabia also share these mechanics, while across the world, other Tribal Countries are either Tribal Despotisms or Tribal Monarchies, working as before.

National Ideas

The Black Sheep and White Sheep Turkmen have also been given their own unique national ideas

Aq Qoyunlu (starting development: 55)
Traditions:
cavalry_power = 0.2
land_morale = 0.1

Ambition:
land_maintenance_modifier = -0.10

The White Sheep
"The Aq Qoyunlu, or the White Sheep, trace their lineage to Bayandor Khan, the leader of one of the twenty four Oghuz tribes and the grandson of Oghuz Khagan himself. The blood in our veins is that of true warriors and makes us the predestined leaders of all other peoples."

leader_land_shock = 1

Unite the Clans
"For many years it has been to our great detriment that we have been unable to settle the succession disputes of our federation. We must settle the disputes of the sons of the White Sheep and unite as one. After decades of warfare there will be few who can stand before us if we would just work together instead."

yearly_tribal_allegiance = 1
cavalry_cost = -0.2

Turko-Iranian Bureaucracy
"Iran might seem ripe for an army such as ours. It is easy to conquer and keep under foot. However, if we are to extract any form of revenue from our new subjects we will need to rely not only on our military elites. There is no reason that the old administrative families of these lands should not continue to carry out their work. Let us embrace the ancient traditions of Iranian bureaucracy, as long as we make it clear that the military might lies with the armies of the White Sheep."

core_creation = -0.2

Dynastic Apanages
"The tribes in our confederation are held together by the loyalty to our great ruler but there are many conflicts within this disparate group of supporters. If we want to avoid splintering over petty tribal conflicts we should strive to keep all conquered land directly within our ruling family rather than among the chiefs that support us."

global_manpower_modifier = 0.25

Expansive Diplomacy
"Our realm lies at a crossroad between the empires of the Mediterranean and those of Greater Iran and South Asia. In many ways this region is one of few friends and many enemies. If we are to find allies we will have to look far abroad, perhaps even among the Christian realms of the far west."

diplomats = 1

Religious Pragmatism
"These are dangerous times and many look to millenarian sects for answers. We must do what we can to curb religious extremism in our lands while also working together with the more organized dervish sects that many of the Turkoman warriors belong to. By carefully choosing who to ally and who to fight we can build a stronger state, one that will have the allegiance of the Dervishes without the chaos that religious extremism can bring."

stability_cost_modifier = -0.1

Qanun-nama-ye Hasan
"The source of a land’s wealth is its population. The lands under our control have, however, suffered from centuries of warfare. We must protect our urban and rural subjects alike from wanton raids and coercion. Instead we must build and enforce a set of laws to make living and raising wealth in our realm safe and worthwhile. We will grow rich as our subjects prosper."

global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
Click to expand...

Qara Qoyunlu (Starting Development: 161. Has Bitlis and Kharabakh as vassals)
Traditions:
leader_land_shock = 1
cavalry_power = 0.2

Ambition:
leader_land_fire = 1


The Black Sheep
"We are the confederation of the Black Sheep. Our lineage goes back to the great Oghuz Khans and our warriors have made the world tremble. Once we bowed our heads to the Ilkhans and Timur but we now stand independent and stronger than ever, ready to take on the leadership of all the Turkic clans of Iran, Anatolia and the Caucasus."

global_manpower_modifier = 0.25

Governor of Azerbaijan
"While many of our military campaigns against our Timurid overlords have given us valuable experience perhaps the most important gain was the title of Timurid governor, given by Shah Rukh to Jahan Shah in order to help him pacify our people. What Shah Rukh did not realize is that this allows us to claim the legitimacy of the Timur, who once defeated and conquered all states in the Caucasus. This newfound honor gives us a platform to build a lasting hold over the Caucasus, Azerbaijan and perhaps one day even Persia."

province_warscore_cost = -0.05
core_creation = -0.1

In Honor of Ali
"Regardless of if they consider themselves Sunni or Shia, the great majority of our subjects honor the Imams, the family of Muhammad and even Ali. While this conviction is regarded as a weakness by some legal scholars it is something that unites our people, be they Sufi mystics, regular Sunnis, Alevis or Twelver Shias."

Tolerance of Heretics +3

Dynamic Warfare
"Our region has proven perilous for many invaders. The mountains, deserts, plains and forests of the Caucasus and Iran require quick adaptation to local circumstances and a keen eye for strategic and tactical advantages. Our prolonged warfare against other Turkoman federations and the Timurids have allowed us to perfect a dynamic form of warfare, mixing raids, grand maneuver warfare and pitched battles."

leader_land_manuever = 1

Freedom with Responsibility
"A truly great ruler is one who knows how to delegate. We have subdued a great number of states over a wide and diverse range of climates and landscapes. If our empire is to grow we must learn to empower local petty dynasties that surrender to our rule, allowing them to tax their own people and raise their own armies in our service."


reduced_liberty_desire = 10

Patron of Iranian Culture
"As conquerors of Iran and Iraq we have inherited the cities and palaces of the great empires before us. If we are to survive and thrive in this region we must add our own monuments and architecture to theirs and patronize the Persianate scholars of our subject peoples."

global_unrest = -1

Irrigation and Public Works
"Centuries of warfare, ever since the Mongol invasion, has left the lands of Iran and Mesopotamia devastated. Great irrigation works that once guaranteed the well being of our subjects have been laid to waste and agriculture is held hostage by the whims of the seasons.\nIn the short run we must build up stores of grain so that we can help our people in times of need. In order to secure the future, however, we must restore what was once ruined and rebuild the public works that will allow the Qara Qoyunlu lands to be fertile and productive once more."

global_tax_modifier = 0.1
Click to expand...

National Ideas and the Tribal Federation Government are all free changes with the 1.23 Update, while Tribal Allegiance and the interactions relating to it are paid parts of the upcoming expansion which will be released alongside 1.23.

Another thing which will be of interest to the Sheep Federations and frankly any nation in the neighborhood of the Ottomans is a change we've done for the Turkish behemoth. In 1444, we have removed all foreign Anatolian cores for the Ottomans. Candar, Karaman, Ramazan, Dulkadir and Aq Qoyunlu may breath a collective sign of relief that Osmanoglu's rise to dominance will be more contested than before.

Ottoman Diplomatic view in 1444:

Ottoman.jpg


As a final note for this dev diary I will wrap up the Trade Goods screenshots by completely jumping away from today's focus and show changes made in China, Korea and Japan:

Happy man looks over far east.jpg


That's all folks! Next week we'll stroll A little Eastwards and check out what has changed in Persia.
 
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Drat. I liked the Steppe Nomad Government for QQ and AQ. I also liked the title of "Khan". While the mechanics are nice, I'm disappointed by the change from "Khan" to "Sultan".

Unless the previous setup was historically inaccurate, I'd prefer to have that back.
 
DDRJake said:
Good day and welcome all to the Tuesday Dev Diary for Europa Universalis IV. Last Week we took a good look at changes to the Islamic Faith mechanics and today we're going to shine the spotlight on two prominent Muslim nations who shaped the Middle East in the 15th Century. That is to say the White sheep and Black Sheep Turkmen of Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu.

For a long time we have modeled these two nations rather haphazardly as Steppe Nomads but now is the time to give them their own special Government type of Tribal Federation complete with their own mechanics centred around Tribal Allegiance.

On its own, the Tribal Federation Government grants:

-5 years of separatism
-10% warscore cost for provinces
+25% cavalry to infantry ratio

The rise and fall of these Federations will ride on how well they are able to win over the tribal warriors of the region who are fickle to the successes and failures of the Federation. By winning battles and humiliating rivals, a Tribal Federation is able to increase their Tribal Allegiance which will in turn grant stronger bonuses for the country. Conversely, losing battles and being humiliated is a fast track to losing their support and bonuses.

View attachment 300191
Tribal Allegiance itself will grant no bonuses with at zero, but up to +33% manpower recovery and -3 national unrest as it grows. It will degrade over time relative to your development. Additionally, it can be spent to gain immediate assistance With each action costing 30 Allegiance. :
  • Enlist General: Gain General with 40 Tradition
  • Train Horsemanship: Get +15% Cavalry Combat Ability for 10 years.
  • Conscript from Tribes: Start production of 6 Cavalry units in the capital at 25% build time.
The Inland tribes of Arabia also share these mechanics, while across the world, other Tribal Countries are either Tribal Despotisms or Tribal Monarchies, working as before.

National Ideas

The Black Sheep and White Sheep Turkmen have also been given their own unique national ideas

Aq Qoyunlu (starting development: 55)


Qara Qoyunlu (Starting Development: 161. Has Bitlis and Kharabakh as vassals)


National Ideas and the Tribal Federation Government are all free changes with the 1.23 Update, while Tribal Allegiance and the interactions relating to it are paid parts of the upcoming expansion which will be released alongside 1.23.

Another thing which will be of interest to the Sheep Federations and frankly any nation in the neighborhood of the Ottomans is a change we've done for the Turkish behemoth. In 1444, we have removed all foreign Anatolian cores for the Ottomans. Candar, Karaman, Ramazan, Dulkadir and Aq Qoyunlu may breath a collective sign of relief that Osmanoglu's rise to dominance will be more contested than before.

Ottoman Diplomatic view in 1444:

View attachment 300204

As a final note for this dev diary I will wrap up the Trade Goods screenshots by completely jumping away from today's focus and show changes made in China, Korea and Japan:

View attachment 300208

That's all folks! Next week we'll stroll A little Eastwards and check out what has changed in Persia.
Click to expand...

Nice to see the East Asian trade goods. I'm still a bit disappointed in Japan's lack of gold, though... The Sado Gold Mine and other mines on the island of Sado, for example, were a very significant source of gold and silver for the Tokugawa Shogunate and precious metals were found there even as far back as the 8th century. Though to be fair, Sado may be too small to have its own province and making the rest of the province Gold might not be in line with how you guys decide on trade goods.

There's also the absolutely massive Iwami Ginzan Silver Mine, renowned at the time as a primary source of high-quality silver, and one of the main origins of metal currency in Asia. Right now it's located in a province designated as producing Fish - this province could definitely be another candidate for Gold. Or could it be that making any province in Japan have Gold would make whichever daimyo controls it too powerful compared to the rest? I'm curious what the reasoning is.
 
With the overhaul of Muslim countries, hopefully you guys would rework the Caliph system as well. It's quite a big deal and historically gave the Ottomans influence and legitimacy in the Muslim world
 
fksahin said:
If you're comparing 40 years old cores to a century before ones (and even older ones), I just can send my congrats to you nothing else to say lol

And an addition to Byzantium situation in the 1444s, they were had only city of Constantinople and some castles around it. Even in the Morea there was several city states and brothers and cousins of current emperor were ruling these areas. So they didn't have any power or disire to have any core or demand on anywhere but just hold Constantinople.
Click to expand...

1328_Mediterranean_Sea.PNG


Byzantium - 1328 - Barely over a century before game start, and following EUIV rules, it should take 150 years to lose a core from a nation's culture group, so there is no absolutely no justification for losing any cores on Greek cultured lands (e.g., Rhodes/Rhodos, Epirus and Chios). Additionally, the population along the Asia Minor coast would still have been predominantly Greek at this time period, especially in the northern area shown here, so they should definitely have cores on Kocaeli, Hudavendigar and Biga, if not also Aydin and Mentesha.
 
What estates do the Tribal Federations use?
 
Orinsul said:
does anyone know why they were named after sheeps?
Click to expand...

Actually more realistic translation should be "The ones that has/with Black Sheep" and "The ones that has/with White Sheep"

When you say White Sheep or Black Sheep it means Ak Koyun, Kara Koyun. So just the sheep but when you add "lu" (Kara Koyunlu) it's mean how I wrote.
 
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Just my thoughts from reading this thread, but what if the Ottoman cores were territorial cores instead of state cores. So, the territorial cores should vanish after someone else conquers them, which could be the current situation.

How the topic looks probably varies by how history is interpreted, but I think the team has left it kind of open for now.


Also, with the Timurids, AQ, and QQ no longer being hordes, I hope that the government for the Manchus is reconsidered.
 
Ottomans: Instead of showing how exceptional men exploited exceptional circumstances, as was in history, we are forced to accept that "it was meant to be" these nations will dominate global politics.

I'm annoyed with this forced Exceptionalism that is a persistent and clear undertone of everything EU4. The regional DLC system feels more like a tax, rather than upgrade. "Pay us so we make other countries relevant as well". The effects are a comical reverse from vanilla. For example, colonizers can't even touch China or India anymore.
 
caedussl said:
As I said originally, events is my preferred way of giving claims back to the Ottomans, ideally after the City of World's Desire Mission is complete. In this sense, it's both historical (because the Ottoman's pursued full and true annexation after this) and logical. Permanent claims should represent some sort of legitimacy over an area. With Russia's, they are the empire of all the Rus, and get claims appropriate. For Mandate of Heaven permanent claims, it again makes sense because the nation that holds the mandate has legitimacy to hold all of China. By taking Constantinople, the Ottomans have a legitimate claim to all the beyliks.
Click to expand...
I agree with that. If completing the ciy of world's desire mission would give claims (permanent or not) on Anatolia, this sounds like a nice way to encourage historical expansion for the Ottomans, without the straight buff that are free cores.

It could be the whole Anatolian regions, or if old missions are kept, only specific areas like Kastamonu (Candar area), Karaman, Dulkadir, Aydin (for the Genoan island of Chios) and Erzurum. Basically, everything except the Mediterranean islands (covered by specific missions) and the Aleppo region (covered by the Conquer the Levant mission).
 
sorry its appropriate Bah, Bah, a black Sheep,
Have you any Wool?
Yes merry I Have,
Three Bags full,
Two for my Master,
One for my Dame,
None for the Little Boy
That cries in the lane.
 
you people can complain as much as you want about ottoman nerf
but frankly its for the better
because it was getting really tiresome to always fight same enemy in anatolia and middle east
over and over again
seeing some potential for other powers makes me immensely happy
 
omar44 said:
Sacred animal for Oghuz Turks.
Click to expand...

And who said so? I'm unaware of it as a Oghuz Turk lol

Sheeps were very important for nomadic lifestyle and for example still in Turkey we call our little ones as "my little lamp" lol. But that's all. There is no sacred thing about it.

There is one sacred animal in the Turkish/Turkic mythology and it's Wolf. Old Turkish "sacred" ruling family; Aşina (Ashina) used to believe that comes from half wolf half human.

You can read Turkish/Turkic mythology, Ergenekon and Börteçine (wolf) to get more information.
 
The Ottoman nerf makes sense and potentially makes the game more interesting. Of course they still will be a superpower by 1500, but putting a slight brake on their early game expansion gives those newly updated nations QQ and AQ the chance to survive for some time, even if handled by the AI.

As for historical accuracy: If you lament the lack of EU4 being a precise representation of the world in 1444 you are many years late. Actually, the Ottomans are still better off in the game than they were historically. The Ottoman government is ahistorically strong, since it pretty much triples the chances of getting above average rulers, while the real Ottomans were not always blessed with amazing sultans.
The list of nations that are grossly misrepresented in EU4 at game start includes illustrious names such as
  • France, which was actually not a centralized power-blob in 1444
  • the HRE, which is implemented 'wrong' in so many ways I wouldn't even know where to start 'correcting' it
  • Denmark, which actually was an elective monarchy at the time. Thus, even Sweden is not implemented historically. I think it is safe to assume that PDS is not completely ignorant of Skandinavian history.
So please, do not feel offended if your favourite nation in EU4 is not modeled accurately enough in your opinion. It still is just a game. And while it should inspire us to learn more about history, we shouldn't learn it from the game itself.
 
omar44 said:
Sacred animal for Oghuz Turks.
Click to expand...

Good one. :D The totem animal of the Bayındır clan (from whom the Akkoyunlu claimed descent) was the gyrfalcon.


Orinsul said:
does anyone know why they were named after sheeps?
Click to expand...

It could be as simple as the type of sheep they herded. The descendants of the nomadic sheep (and goat) herding Turks and Turcomans could be found until very recent times, and were known by the colour of their sheep and goats, so White Sheep, Black Sheep, Yellow Goat, Black Goat, etc tribes.

An alternative etymology, which I do not believe to be correct, says they are the western sheep herders and northern sheep herders. "Ak"="white" used to be the colour Turks would ascribe to the west, and "kara"="black" to the north. In support of this, I did find a "Kızılkoyunlu" family (which would be "red/southern sheep herders") but no etymology for their name. As I said, I don't think this is correct, anyway.

Edit: The Ottomans are apparently descendants of the Black Goats, first tribal cousins to the Blackheads, Horsemen, the "With Wolves", White Goats, Yellow Goats, etc. :)
 
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Seeing a lot of people wanting Caliph mechanic.
I'm all for new mechanics, although I can live without it.

As a suggestion. I can think of a similar mechanic to Curia controller. Only at the start there's no controller. And as a result of your actions (wars against other religions, religion conversions etc.) you gain points. And when you have 100 points or so you can claim title of Caliph
 
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