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EU4 - Development Diary - 1st of May 2018

Hello everyone!

This week I have returned to tell you a bit more about the upcoming overhaul of the map of India and what it will mean for the northern parts of the subcontinent. These changes will be part of the 1.26 patch which is currently in development.

Northern India in 1444
Just as in the region under focus in Cradle of Civilization the political situation in Northern India has recently been reshaped by the actions of Timur, who invaded the subcontinent in 1398 and sacked Delhi. At that time Delhi was the capital of, more or less, the entire northern part of the subcontinent (in the south the Bahmani sultanate had already broken away 50 years prior). The day after the looting this, once great, kingdom had effectively been reduced to a few kilometers around the city’s periphery. As soon as news reached them the governors in Jaunpur, Bengal, Malwa, Gujarat and many vassal kings all broke away into their own independent states. Timur himself quickly left with only the local Sayyid dynasty placed in charge of Punjab and Multan.

In 1444, almost 50 years later, Timur is now dead and his son, Shah Rukh is dying. Timurid influence in the subcontinent is almost non-existent and the many breakaway states are now consolidated kingdoms in their own right. The Sayyids have conquered the city of Delhi for themselves, ousting the old Tughlaq dynasty, but have been able to claim the wider Delhian empire as their own.

In 1.26 we have tried to better portray this hugely diverse region, both in the initial setup and in how it will develop over time. As before we will keep to mentioning countries that exist at the start of the game. There may however be countries in later starts and revolters (such as Sikkim, Rajkot or Makwanpur) that we won’t be discussing here.

Punjab, Multan & Delhi
Punjab.png

Shortly after Timur left India in 1398, the governors he had left in charge of Multan seized Delhi for themselves. Founding the Sayyid dynasty they ended the Tughlaq dominion over India and laid claim to their empire.

Reclaiming Delhi’s lost lands has proven hard in practice however, the Sharqi dynasty in Jaunpur controls the old heartland of the Sultanate and the invading Langa dynasty has wrested away Multan itself. Punjab remains part of the Sayyid domain but is home to quarrelsome nobles with their own ambitions.

In 1444 an ambitious local strongman in Punjab, Bahlul Lodi, has united the nobles of the region behind him. With them he will march on Delhi to make his overlord, the Sayyid sultan, a puppet to his will.

In our timeline Bahlul succeeded. He imprisoned Mahmud Shah Sayyid in a fort a few kilometers outside the city and returned to his base in Punjab. Bahlul Lodi was not content with being the power behind the throne for long however, and eventually returned a few years later, seizing the throne for himself.
The talented and ruthless Lodis would then do what the Sayyids could not and reclaim much of northern India, only to eventually lose it to a wayward Timurid claimant, Babur.

In patch 1.26 we have replaced the old pretender revolt in Delhi with a Punjabi vassal ruled by Bahlul Lodi (4/5/6). Early on an event will fire allowing Delhi and Punjab (with Bahlul at the helm) to decide if they wish to go to war over who will rule the Sultanate.
A decision for all Sultanates in northern India to form Delhi has also been added if they should take the city, allowing them to claim many of Delhi’s former lands as well as their country specific content.
The Himalayan region has been revised, with a new Pahari culture added as well as a number of new mountain kingdoms to better portray the diversity of the region, which maintained its independence in the face of many empires during the era this game portrays.

New Playable Countries in 1444:
  • Punjab - Delhi vassal. This is not a new tag as such, Punjab was always a revolter in this region but it is now playable from the start to represent Lodi domain.
  • Sirmur - Rajput Mountain kingdom dating back to the 11th century.
  • Kumaon - Mountain kingdom under the Rajput Chand dynasty, dating back to the 8th century.

Hindusthan - The Gangetic Plain & Nepal
Hindustan.png

The central Gangetic plain is one of the most densely populated places in the world, in 1444 as well as today. It has often been the heartland of the great North Indian empires and the main source of both income and recruitment. It was therefore a major blow to the Delhi sultans when the eastern governor based in Jaunpur declared independence, styling himself the first of the “Sharqi” (literally eastern) sultans.

In 1444 the Sharqi dynasty is doing well. The capital of Jaunpur has gained a reputation as the ‘Shiraz of India’ due to their patronage of culture and art. Politically they have not only maintained their independence from Delhi, they have also moved aggressively towards conquering the city itself in a few recent wars.

In the Himalayas to the north, the region we know as Nepal is divided in a myriad of petty states (in reality many more than we can portray) and would not be united for centuries.

In patch 1.26 we have revised the Gangetic plain to give it the strategic depth it deserves in Bihar and Jaunpur. We have also broken up Nepal into a number of new playable countries. While it is impossible to truly cover the sheer number of states in this region we still believe this new setup better portrays the political realities of the region. If one of them conquers enough of the others it will be able to form Nepal, gaining access to its national ideas and claims on a wider region claimed by Nepal after it had been historically unified by the Gorkhas in the 18th century.


New Playable Countries in 1444:

  • Doti - Representing the kingdoms of far Western Nepal we have the Mallas of Doti.
  • Jumla - The Baisi Rajya (22 principalities) region is represented by the tag of Jumla, ruled by the Chauhan dynasty in 1444.
  • Dang - Small Nepalese kingdom ruled by the Chauhans of Tulsipur.
  • Gorkha - Representing the many kingdoms of Chaubisi Rayja (24 principalities) and Palpa we have the Gorkha tag. At start ruled by the Sen Rajas of Ribidkot and in later start dates first the Rajas of Palpa and later the Shahis of Gorkha.
  • Kathmandu - Kathmandu valley is home to one of the more influential kingdoms of Nepal and is ruled by the Malla dynasty. Within a generation Kathmandu valley would historically become divided into three rivaling kingdoms rather than one, losing much of its influence.
  • Limbuwan - Independent Buddhist kingdom. The Limbu country is in 1444 led by the influential Morang state under the Sangla dynasty.

Rajputana & Malwa
Rajputana.png

Long before 1444, before the Muslim invasion of India, the north-western part of the subcontinent was ruled by Rajput dynasties. While their descendants are still present all over in Northern India, the richer lands are now all ruled by Muslim sultanates. Many Rajput dynasties remain in power however in the region colloquially known as Rajputana, roughly corresponding to modern Rajasthan with surroundings.

The most powerful dynasty in 1444 is by far the Sisodias of Mewar, who up until recently has been cooperating closely with the Rathores of Marwar. Joint rule has however ended with bad blood, intrigues and murder. Mewar has annexed Marwar in retribution and the would-be king of the Rathores Jodha is currently an outcast in the Marwari desert. Historically Jodha would found the city of Jodhpur and reclaim his kingdom, destined to be a long term rival of Mewar to the south.

Further south the rich Malwa Plateau, once the center of a great Rajput Empire, is now ruled by the Muslim Khalji sultanate. While Malwa is a rich agricultural land, with black volcanic soil, it is also on the main route between the northern plains and the great ports of Gujarat. Allowing it to tax trade but also making it a target for almost all of its neighbors, sultans as well as rajas. Rajput nobles remain a very influential group in Malwa and historically the Malwa sultans would come to rely greatly on them in its many conflicts with neighboring sultanates. This reliance would eventually be the end of the dynasty, as large parts of the kingdom more or less defected to Mewar in a later conflict.

In 1444 Malwa has subdued the Gond state of Garha to the east and set up a vassal kingdom in Kalpi under the Malikzada dynasty. An insurance and a buffer against the rival Jaunpur sultanate to the north.

In 1.26 we have done our best to better portray this varied and fiercely independent region. Both by adding new provinces and countries but also by better minding the political geography of the region. Bundelkhand has been diversified and both Mewar and Malwa have gained provinces to better portray their actual strategical depth (even though both states remain sensitive to attacks on more than one front).
Next to Gwalior the province of Ranthambore with its famous fort now also guards the region from northern incursions. Together these forts have been called the Gibraltar of India and their sieges in this era are legendary.

New playable countries in 1444:
  • Kalpi - Muslim subject of Malwa and a point of conflict between Jaunpur and Malwa for decades. Was previously part of Bundelkhand (a tag that now represents the Bundelas of Mahoba and later Orchha).
  • Kalinjar - Small kingdom ruled by the Chandella dynasty dating to the 9th century. Was previously part of the Bundelkhand tag.
  • Idar - Small Rathore princedom in the hills near the neck of the Mahi river, often but not always subservient to Gujarat.

Gujarat, Kathiawar and Sindh
Kathiawar.png


The Sultanate of Gujarat is the dominant power in the far west of northern India. Its main source of income and influence is its access to the great ports through which so much of India’s trade flows west. Khambhat is quite possibly one of the greatest ports in the world in the 15th century. It is both a center of production, export and the main embarkation point for the Hajj for Indian Muslims. Like the other Sultans the Muzzafarids (or Ahmad Shahis) of Gujarat have recently thrown off their loyalties to Delhi and have been building a new kingdom for themselves.
The Saurashtra region to their west is still home to a great number of smaller kingdoms, most of which are still independent. While weaker than the Rajput states of Rajputana these small kingdoms could together still be a threat to the Sultanate and historically the Gujarati sultans would consider the conquest of this region one of the first priorities.

In patch 1.26 we have breaken up the old Kathiawar tag (now renamed to Kutch). Instead we now represent some of the other states on the peninsula, many of whom had old and very venerable dynasties. We have also separated Saurastri and Gujarati culture. As with the southern coast we have made sure that the Indian trade ports of the Gujarat and Sindh regions are given their proper representation, both because these would have been targets for any expansion in the region, and to allow European countries plausible footholds here.


New Playable Countries in 1444:
  • Jhalavad - Independent Rajput kingdom ruled by the Jhala dynasty.
  • Palitana - Independent Rajput kingdom ruled by the Gohil dynasty.
  • Junagadh - Independent Rajput kingdom in western/central Kathiawar ruled by the Chudasama dynasty. This kingdom has ruled the peninsula since the 9th century and still hold the ancient mountain of Girnar and its associated fort Uparkot.
  • Porbandar - Independent Rajput maritime kingdom ruled by the Jethwa dynasty.

Other Indian Setup Changes:
trade.png

Now last but not least here is the promised a Trade Node map of India! This is one way in which the subcontinent has actually changed quite a bit as the one from 1.8 had some severe deficiencies. Both in how hard it was for Europeans to pull trade from the region and in its failure to properly capture the benefits of the Grand Trunk Road.

In 1.26 we have removed and renamed nodes as well as changed connections and the direction of the trade flow.

Changes include:
  • Bengal now gives trade to Doab as well as Coromandel (old Ceylon).
  • Doab feeds both Deccan and Lahore.
  • Deccan Feeds Coromandel and Gujarat
  • Lahore feeds Gujarat, Samarkand and Persia.
  • Gujarat feeds Hormuz, Aden and Zanzibar
  • Coromandel feeds Gujarat, Aden and Cape of Good Hope.

That was all for this week!
Next week I will be back to talk about changes to Bengal, Tibet and Burma! I will also mention some more of the new formable countries we have in store for India.
 
Hey what about overhaul features, WHERE ARE THEY
I think that they explained three weeks ago that the reason trin is doing these right now is that the guy who does the regular dev diaries is on vacation.
 
Out of curiosity, is there any chance of a free Bhutan? I understand that the region was divided in principalities that were largely autonomous, but considering that Bhutan is known as the country that has never been conquered (with the possible exception of the 7th-9th century, its under debate), it always seemed odd to me that they were a releasable country.
 
Is there any chance Sikhism gets a unique religion mechanic or some sort of boost to make it a viable option over the two dominant choices in the region (Islam, Hinduism)?
I'd like to see Sikhism become some sort of late-game oriented religion which gradually unlocks different bonuses/mechanics from historical events and the lives of the Gurus. Unlike other religions with only a single founding figure, the formative period of Sikhism stretches from 1469 to 1708, which is most of EUIV's timeline. Currently there's a similar system in place but it's not particularly good because you lose the old bonuses from the previous Gurus rather than having small bonuses that gradually build up.

For something that's more like an expansion pack I'd like to see a unique "military theocracy" government for Sikh countries after 1699 or so, to represent the Sikh Misldars who came to dominate northwest India in the late 18th century. Military theocracies could have hereditary succession, no clergy estate and the ability to recruit unique Khalsa cavalry units. Maybe throw in government actions as well, though that might be overpowered.

Also they should stop treating Guru Har Krishan ji as a negative thing (reducing diplomatic relations). At the moment Sikhism is one of the few religions left which has outright negative effects, and it sort of seems like whoever designed this event chain thinks that Guru Har Krishan ji is like some Sikh equivalent of Edward VI, when really he is counted as just as crucial as all of the other Guru Sahiban, and ultimately you can count him as a Shaheed like Guru Arjun Dev ji and Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji because he gave his life to tend to the suffering of people infected with smallpox. Guru Har Krishan ji's life helps inform Sikh attitudes to the participation of children in our religious life, alongside the Chaar Sahibzaade. Go to any Gurdwara and you will find young children taking part in many of the same acts of service as adults.
 
too bad that are still missing 1 or 2 trade routes leading from Africa to India. It was a much used trade route with very precise winds that helped that trade to flow.

I know trade routes always go to europe, but would be nice to have a few places where you could send trade back to asia to make sure europeans had to take control of these if they truly wish to benefit from colonization :).

otherwise great changes.
 
I like following the Sikh events in the Punjab region. With Punjab playable from the get go, are these events affected in anyway? How are their triggers defined?
 
Out of curiosity, is there any chance of a free Bhutan? I understand that the region was divided in principalities that were largely autonomous, but considering that Bhutan is known as the country that has never been conquered (with the possible exception of the 7th-9th century, its under debate), it always seemed odd to me that they were a releasable country.
I guess it's most likely that we will see independent Bhutanese tags (or just one tag) in the dev diary about Tibet, Bengal and Burma next week.;)
 
Out of curiosity, is there any chance of a free Bhutan? I understand that the region was divided in principalities that were largely autonomous, but considering that Bhutan is known as the country that has never been conquered (with the possible exception of the 7th-9th century, its under debate), it always seemed odd to me that they were a releasable country.

I agree that Bhutan could be made an independent country at start, but it is part of (presumably) Ü/Phagmodrupa territory, as can be seen by country borders in the trade map mode pic

Also I looked at the (trade) map again, while it's very zoomed out, and zooming in quickly pixelates, but it looks like the new wasteland (made from former changtang province) isn't as big as it looks at first glance, it looks like there is a colonizeable province in the east! Entry points for Khosut mongols??

Anyway I tried to figure out what we can see of the new tibet map and identify new borders

We have:

Guge with 3 provinces (also seen in corners of the regular screenshots)
Tsang (Ringpungpa) with 6 provinces! (though I might have gotten that wrong)
Ü (Phamodrupa) with 4 provinces (including 2 in Bhutan)
Can't see enough of the rest of Tibet to make out anything worth while, but I hope they have Kham and Amdo as separate states :)

That the new states are Tsang and Ü based on the above mentioned dynasties isn't confirmed it's the only reasonable possibility (I believe)
 
It seems that there's some kind of new tag next to Sikkim in the geographical area of Bhutan.

I don't see a colonizable province, though?
 
I'm really eager to see how the Zanzibar trade shakeup changes the game. This looks interesting. What are the projected effects that you believe will happen as a result of this change?
 
too bad that are still missing 1 or 2 trade routes leading from Africa to India. It was a much used trade route with very precise winds that helped that trade to flow.
Two-way connections are not possible. What you suggest would create a trade loop allowing for infinite money generation.

I know trade routes always go to europe, but would be nice to have a few places where you could send trade back to asia to make sure europeans had to take control of these if they truly wish to benefit from colonization :).
Not sure I understand your point or your suggestion. Europeans have to control the Asian nodes anyway to pull Trade Westward.
 
Two-way connections are not possible. What you suggest would create a trade loop allowing for infinite money generation.

Not sure I understand your point or your suggestion. Europeans have to control the Asian nodes anyway to pull Trade Westward.

yeah i know the system right now does not support it. But its still one of the greatest flaws of EU4 as that makes people think trade only went to europe while asia brought a ton of resources from the rest of the world too with the africa -> Asia trade being the biggest trade routes and how islamism got to the philipines and south of asia.


Maybe one day they will find a way to make trade routes that go back and don´t allow for huge exploits. (They can be different and work under different rules about what happens to the money getting there for example ).

this would open some new strategies worldwide if possible.

but i don´t really want to delve too much into this as this post is not the place and this was already beaten to death when EU4 was still on 1.0-1.3 .


Not sure I understand your point or your suggestion. Europeans have to control the Asian nodes anyway to pull Trade Westward.

about that part you only need 1 province. Ships can do the rest if my EU4 knowledge is not that rusty. Specially in trades where countries can´t afford navies.
 
It seems that there's some kind of new tag next to Sikkim in the geographical area of Bhutan.

I don't see a colonizable province, though?

The new tag in Bhutan is most likely Ü, representing the Phagmodrupa. In the trade map you can see country borders as thicker colored lines, and the same line encircles both central Tibet (Ü region) and Bhutan.

If you look at the changtang wasteland on the new map, it appears to be a sort of gridlock on the eastern part, reminiscent of how uncolonized provinces look in the trade map mode view. It's to poor resolution to be sure though
 
yeah i know the system right now does not support it. But its still one of the greatest flaws of EU4 as that makes people think trade only went to europe while asia brought a ton of resources from the rest of the world too with the africa -> Asia trade being the biggest trade routes and how islamism got to the philipines and south of asia.
My knowledge is not as good as I would like to think, but I don't believe Asia was much of an importer of goods, rather it was the origin and the manufacturer of the goods that were prized by the Muslim and Christian realms to the West. Sure things were offered in exchange by the Europeans but that is a much wider deficiency of the Trade mechanic that is not limited to India.

With regard to the Philippines and the rest of SEA, Islam was brought by Islamic traders, but that doesn't mean trade should flow into the Philippines from Islamic areas, it means the opposite, just like the Spanish arrival in the Philippines warranting the pull from Panama. Trade flows to where the traders are from.

about that part you only need 1 province. Ships can do the rest if my EU4 knowledge is not that rusty. Specially in trades where countries can´t afford navies.
You would need a hell of a lot of ships to control a node with just one owned province. But yes, ships, along with centres of trade make a big difference; this is the Age of Sail after all.
 
My knowledge is not as good as I would like to think, but I don't believe Asia was much of an importer of goods, rather it was the origin and the manufacturer of the goods that were prized by the Muslim and Christian realms to the West. Sure things were offered in exchange by the Europeans but that is a much wider deficiency of the Trade mechanic that is not limited to India.
Actually trade only works when both sides has something the other wants. Sure in the EU4 era the europeans mostly paid in precious metals from the americas, but that could only have lasted so long, in fact the fact that China sold it's goods for precious metals which only drove inflation but added no real value is perhaps part of the decline of the east.
The indian ocean trade on the other hand lasted for millenia and was far more sustainable.
And what happened in real history was far from a given.

Also as the mechanics are today there is no benefit for being on the receiving end of a trade deficit, and short term there is (long term a deficit either way is bad for both).
 
My knowledge is not as good as I would like to think, but I don't believe Asia was much of an importer of goods, rather it was the origin and the manufacturer of the goods that were prized by the Muslim and Christian realms to the West. Sure things were offered in exchange by the Europeans but that is a much wider deficiency of the Trade mechanic that is not limited to India.

With regard to the Philippines and the rest of SEA, Islam was brought by Islamic traders, but that doesn't mean trade should flow into the Philippines from Islamic areas, it means the opposite, just like the Spanish arrival in the Philippines warranting the pull from Panama. Trade flows to where the traders are from.

You would need a hell of a lot of ships to control a node with just one owned province. But yes, ships, along with centres of trade make a big difference; this is the Age of Sail after all.

here is a video with a little of a resume because the history is deep ^^.

 
I will just suggest a mission tree for Delhi, as they were the biggest power in the area for quite a bit of time.

Key:

Mission
(requirement)

Take back the Punjab >Annex Multan > Defeat the Sharqis >Take the north
(Punjab's land annexed by Delhi) (province of Multan owned by Delhi) (All of Jaunpur's land owned by Delhi) (The rest of Multan + Margalla owned by Delhi)


>Subjugate the Rajputs >Take Bengal >Take Gujarat
(All provinces of Rajput culture owned by Delhi) (Delhi owns every Bengali province west of the Ganges) (All provinces of Gujarati or Saurashtri culture owned by Delhi)

>Take the Deccan >Orissa and the center
(All provinces in the Deccan north of Vijayanagara owned by Delhi) (Oriya, Garjati, Jharkhandi and Gondi provinces owned by Delhi)

>Take Hoysala >The Tamils
(All Kannada and Telugu provinces owned by Delhi) (All of the Tamil culture provinces ruled by Delhi)

What do you think?


The first 4 are what post-1444 Delhi did, while everything after is modelled on the pre-Timurid Delhi, which ruled the subcontinent.
Also Punjab will have the same focus tree, but instead of taking Punjab, they will take Delhi.
 
To summarize:


Kashmir -> Lahore
Doab -> Doab
Indus -> Gujarat
Bengal -> Bengal
Goa -> Deccan
Ceylon -> Coromandel


Also I see a Burmese (?) trade node east of Silhet and Chittagong.
 
I
Did you only add ideas for new tags, or did you also change ideas of existing tags? Most Indian majors have rather underwhelming ideas

I am really betting on some decent Delhi ideas, as they rose from their ashes and conquered Jaunpur.
Also they basically unified India at some point.


Awesome, now Indian sultantes will finally be able to gain control of the historical (pre-European) traderoutes from China towards Persia. Hopefully Chinese trade towards xian and the silk road, as well as from chengdu to Samarkand through Tibet could me created as well.

Hopefully Burma will get its own tradenode now.
I also propose a new Malacca-Coromandei trade route, which was used historically.

Uhh if you look closely there is now a Burmese trade node, in turquoise