• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of May 2019

Hey folks, it's time for another EU4 dev diary! My name's Mike, and like my good colleague @Caligula Caesar I've been part of the EU4 Content Design team since December. We've been working on a solid chunk of Europe, and it's time to start showcasing some of this work. As @neondt has mentioned before, we've had a lot of suggestions and feedback from the community, and through further earnest exchanges we've refined the map further.

But, before we get to the end, let's talk about the process quickly, because I know that's what you truly crave.


image1_smol.png


This image is what was used to pitch the idea of what would end up becoming the revised province layout in northern Italy. As you'll see in a moment, it differs from what we ended up with in a couple of ways- Como was added later, along with a split in another North Italian province. Province 5 was originally conceived as a separate Aquileia province (since the country still exists as a releasable in Friuli, it was tempting to see what could be done with it) but that idea was eventually discarded in favor of a new Trieste province.


image2_smol.png


Southern Italy developed much closer to what the original draft envisioned. The southern half of the Italian Peninsula has only a few additions, Avellino being the one that probably sticks out the most. The island of Sicily received a bit more attention, with the island's three provinces turning into five instead. Its new divisions were guided a little bit more by game design priorities than historical divisions, as historical divisions like Sicily's real province of Trapani had sizes and shapes that would have really stuck out like a sore thumb in EU4.

Unlike the northern Italian proposal, the southern Italian one was nearly implemented as-is. The biggest difference is that “Agrigento” had its name changed to “Girgenti”, which seemed more accurate for the period. Conversely, several proposed name changes to pre-existing provinces were not implemented, as they just didn't seem necessary upon review.


“Show us the new map already!” I can hear you guys politely demanding. Fine, fine!


italy_whole.png


Three new countries were added to the map as independent states. In the far north is the Prince-Bishopric of Trent, an Austrian country in control of an Italian province. To the west lies Saluzzo, nervously wedged between Savoy and France. In Romagna, Bologna is now an independent republic coveted by its neighbors.

Alongside these three countries are a couple new potential revolters. Padua and Verona now have cores on their respective provinces and can break away from Venice if the stars align, and Spoleto now exists as a core in Spoleto province, in case the Papal State's control of Central Italy ever starts to fall apart.

If we zoom in a little, more details reveal themselves.


northern italy.png


As the conversation linked at the start of this post highlights, Como originally was not considered, but after some discussion it became apparent that the inclusion of it (or at least something north of Milan) was called for. Thus, Como's complete contours now complement the comprehensive composition of that corner.

The creation of a separate Bologna province also prompted a revision of the remnant of old Romagna province; the old province's capital is now Ravenna, and Ravenna was taken by Venice in 1440 or 1441, so Romagna now starts off under Venetian rather than Papal control, although the Papacy does retain its core on the province. I'm sure this is fine and will definitely not be a source of tension between the two countries.


southern italy.png


Southern Italy was implemented essentially as described above. Sardinia received some attention and now includes Arborea as its own province on the west side of the island, but other Sardinian giudicati were not included primarily for the sake of balance- Sassari province in northern Sardinia has only 3/3/2 development as it is, and splitting that in two would create provinces with as little development as an Uzbek province in the Steppes.

Aside from the obvious mapwork, there is one other thing we added to southern Italy:

two_sicilies.png



And there you have it! Next week, we'll be talking about missions.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Things I will suggest is a 4 province Sardinia and 2 province Corsica. I see no reason why not.
I don't see any way to make the areas sensible with that province setup.
 
Perugia province does exist, but for some reason it’s called Umbria

Ah I see. Could do with localising properly and having a Perugia tag. The shape is already there for it anyway
 
There would be no way to make the areas sensible with that province setup.
We have numerous 2 province areas across the world, alternatively put it in with Genoa
 
We have numerous 2 province areas across the world, alternatively put it in with Genoa
2 province areas are an exception. The minimum is three. But putting it to Genoa could work.
 
@Ofaloaf Valtellina still being impassable terrain makes no sense whatsoever. It was literally one of the most fought-over passes through the Alps in the entire time period, being a theater of furious wars (proxy and direct) to isolate or connect the Duchy of Milan to Austria. Also, Como instead of Ticino might make sense for CK2, but none for EU4 (Como and Ticino were separated 50 years into the game and were never reunited again).
 
Last edited:
We will surely be adding new ideas to them. More details on that another time.

Someone mentioned Italy's areas. Actually, the result of adding more provinces was that areas ended up looking much nicer now than in 1.28 (even if the colours generated for all of them seem to be conspiring to make it not look so at the moment):

View attachment 482542

Great states! We finally got rid of Lazio-Campania, and maybe that's an Istria state?

But what about dividing Lombardy vertically, into Eastern and Western Lombardy? It would be more aesthetic.

Otherwise thanks for your work, I appreciate it. While a lot of people are whining for "no xy ridiculously small province", I find your plans well balanced and settling the most important questions and petitions (Triest, Como, Saluzzo, Bologna). Looking forward the maps of France and the Bakans :)
 
There should be a "Papal State" government type, just like in the Beyond Typus mod. It would be better if they where similar to daymos and Urbino, Perugia (not Umbria!) and Bologna should have it. It would make so much sense and it wouldn't be hard to code. Support for all the Van Kasten comments, except for the one on Terracina, Velletri is better in my opinion anyway.
 
Perugia does not exist?

Bologna is not a vassal of the Pope?
I figured the best way to represent Perugia was by having it as a Papal province with high autonomy. Like Bologna, in the 15th century it had an ambitious signoria at the helm, this is true, but its closer proximity to Rome meant that even at the Signoria's height, the Papacy seemed to exert more influence there than they could in Bologna at the same time. While it took Battle Pope Julius II getting militarily involved for Bologna to really come back into the Papal fold, Popes Sixtus IV, Innocent VIII and others were already repeatedly intervening in Perugian politics on their own.

History is never clear-cut and in this period in particular there's a lot of cases of polities that could be read one way or the other. Ultimately, based on the influence of the Popes and how the two cities were ultimately reincorporated into the Papal State, I made the call the way I did.

Then why Urbino exists and is a vassal of the Pope??

Since Urbino had the same relationship to the Pope as Perugia and Urbino, this choice is not motivated and by far one of the worst you could do for the Italian Peninsula.
At the same time as I was working with the above reasoning, I didn't want to remove any countries from the map if I could help it. Especially with Federico da Montefeltro, I didn't want to remove Urbino. So, ultimately I left it as it is. It is a little arbitrary, I will not deny that, but I had some reasons for making the calls I did.

Bologna a Republic? Well, even Wikipedia paints a more correct picture, so no excuses for this wrong choice.
Signorias are weird and aren't quite monarchies. A dictatorship or oligarchic form of government seems most apt for them. Even Florence under the Medici is in the game as a republic.

And why make Spoleto a releasable nation? Why not insert Perugia too in the province right north? Perugia was still a vassal of the Pope, while Spoleto was a very old Duchy. So it made more sense to make Perugia releasable.
I was partially motivated by meta-reasons, as I enjoy playing CK2 from time to time and came to this looking at its relation to the Middle Ages as much as I did looking at how things played out during the EU4 period. Plus, with Perugia addressed as a province with high autonomy and and certain surliness, I wanted something else for the other central province in the Papacy's domain. Thus, Spoleto.

I sincerely hope that the Lazio-Campania state is no more, but since you have not mentioned it, I am out of hope.
I believe the area revision has been shown since this post was posted. :)
 
What state and province lies north to Venice? Is Trent realisable?
 
Good job, although some of the changes are a bit sub-optimal I quite enjoy most (especially the eastern alps, finally Austria can no longer just invade venice marching straight through the alps).

I have a question about the new opms: are they all free or are some of them vassals? I especially don't understand if you saying Trent is an austrian country means it is a vassal of Austria or it has austrian as a primary culture. If it's the latter it doesn't make any sense: the vast majority of the population was always italian ( ladin, venetian and lombard) speaking, the official language of the bishopry for treatisies etc. Was latin and at game start the bishop is italian (Benedetto da Trento) and he comes right after a polish Bishop. The fact that there were german bishops later (but also italian ones, such as the Madruzzos and Clesio) is just reflected by the decision to appoint a foreign heir, which is already in the game, and should only impact the ruler's culture, not the country's.
 
Which I am on a crusade to remove. Areas should be three provinces minimum.
Three province Sardinia and two province Corsica makes for a perfect state, rather than a four province Sardinia.
This could work, or have a Genoa area that has the Liguria provinces and Corsica