• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of May 2019

Hey folks, it's time for another EU4 dev diary! My name's Mike, and like my good colleague @Caligula Caesar I've been part of the EU4 Content Design team since December. We've been working on a solid chunk of Europe, and it's time to start showcasing some of this work. As @neondt has mentioned before, we've had a lot of suggestions and feedback from the community, and through further earnest exchanges we've refined the map further.

But, before we get to the end, let's talk about the process quickly, because I know that's what you truly crave.


image1_smol.png


This image is what was used to pitch the idea of what would end up becoming the revised province layout in northern Italy. As you'll see in a moment, it differs from what we ended up with in a couple of ways- Como was added later, along with a split in another North Italian province. Province 5 was originally conceived as a separate Aquileia province (since the country still exists as a releasable in Friuli, it was tempting to see what could be done with it) but that idea was eventually discarded in favor of a new Trieste province.


image2_smol.png


Southern Italy developed much closer to what the original draft envisioned. The southern half of the Italian Peninsula has only a few additions, Avellino being the one that probably sticks out the most. The island of Sicily received a bit more attention, with the island's three provinces turning into five instead. Its new divisions were guided a little bit more by game design priorities than historical divisions, as historical divisions like Sicily's real province of Trapani had sizes and shapes that would have really stuck out like a sore thumb in EU4.

Unlike the northern Italian proposal, the southern Italian one was nearly implemented as-is. The biggest difference is that “Agrigento” had its name changed to “Girgenti”, which seemed more accurate for the period. Conversely, several proposed name changes to pre-existing provinces were not implemented, as they just didn't seem necessary upon review.


“Show us the new map already!” I can hear you guys politely demanding. Fine, fine!


italy_whole.png


Three new countries were added to the map as independent states. In the far north is the Prince-Bishopric of Trent, an Austrian country in control of an Italian province. To the west lies Saluzzo, nervously wedged between Savoy and France. In Romagna, Bologna is now an independent republic coveted by its neighbors.

Alongside these three countries are a couple new potential revolters. Padua and Verona now have cores on their respective provinces and can break away from Venice if the stars align, and Spoleto now exists as a core in Spoleto province, in case the Papal State's control of Central Italy ever starts to fall apart.

If we zoom in a little, more details reveal themselves.


northern italy.png


As the conversation linked at the start of this post highlights, Como originally was not considered, but after some discussion it became apparent that the inclusion of it (or at least something north of Milan) was called for. Thus, Como's complete contours now complement the comprehensive composition of that corner.

The creation of a separate Bologna province also prompted a revision of the remnant of old Romagna province; the old province's capital is now Ravenna, and Ravenna was taken by Venice in 1440 or 1441, so Romagna now starts off under Venetian rather than Papal control, although the Papacy does retain its core on the province. I'm sure this is fine and will definitely not be a source of tension between the two countries.


southern italy.png


Southern Italy was implemented essentially as described above. Sardinia received some attention and now includes Arborea as its own province on the west side of the island, but other Sardinian giudicati were not included primarily for the sake of balance- Sassari province in northern Sardinia has only 3/3/2 development as it is, and splitting that in two would create provinces with as little development as an Uzbek province in the Steppes.

Aside from the obvious mapwork, there is one other thing we added to southern Italy:

two_sicilies.png



And there you have it! Next week, we'll be talking about missions.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I like these Italian changes very much - but I am still disappointed that Switzerland didn't get more provinces. It should be the ultimate choke point in central Europe, with better ideas, a unique Canton government type, and mercenaries incorporated into their idea set. I am very much spoiled by Voltaires nightmare, but more could and should be done for it.
This. That’s my biggest disappointment so far.
 
India gets more provinces compared to Italy, Portugal or Germany because india was richer and had a bigger population than these areas while also having less provinces compared to population before the rework.






Dalmatia will most likely come with the balkan map changes
Of course India should have more provinces. I said that the "Central Indian" culture group got more detail than Portugal. Which seems strange to me and, I think, a few other forumers.
 
Uhm, @Ofaloaf I just want to chime in that the Umbrian region isn't really correct:

- Spoleto is not within its own province, but in the province of Umbria.
- The province of Umbria should be renamed to Perugia and its capital (Perugia, I assume) slightly moved to the north and on the other side of the river. This is because the Umbrian region was larger than just that one province of Umbria, your Spoleto was a part of it as well.
- Same problem with Romagna/Ravenna, should just be called Ravenna both.
- Spoleto should be renamed to something else, as well. Or just rewrite the provinces. As Spoleto, the city, doesn't seem to be within its confines.
- The capital of Abruzzi, Aquila (L'Aquila is Mussolini's version), is off, too. Might not even be within its confines.
index.php

index.php


A more precise analysis of the whole Italy-map will come this weekend when I don't have to work.
 

Attachments

  • Spoleto.png
    Spoleto.png
    335 KB · Views: 1.212
  • northern italy.png
    northern italy.png
    938,2 KB · Views: 1.224
Last edited:
> takes time to reinvigorate italian map
> venice still looks like piss

ET mod fixed it so "it would be too small" is no excuse. there are mods adding san marino and andorra to the game and it works fine come on guys.
 
When will there be the slavic Slovenian culture ? And will the Rhaetic culture also be added?

I do suspect there might be a possibility for Slovene culture, we wouldn't really know until they reveal the Balkans province changes. I highly doubt any Rhaeto-Romance cultures will be added, as Romansh and Ladin are too small for any the provinces, leaving only Friulian in Friuli. It would only be a one -province culture so it wouldn't be added.
 
Like a disloyal vassal can do with Support Independence. The exact same thing, with a mechanic that already exists.

Sorry, I wasn't specific. He allied them, and played them against each other to maintain Bologna's independence from them, not the Papacy.

As we are discussing game mechanics, how does Bologna successfully revolting from Milan translate into them becoming a disloyal vassal of the Papacy?
 
Because they're full of Balogna?

... bad pun aside...

Not really something I could see myself, in the sense of what the game mechanics allows. Though a lot of the comments with the Papacy makes me think less historical and more gameplay. As in the Papal State is in a vulnerable spot anyway with Aragon and Naples, along with Venice. They're in a spot where there's more than a few wanting to take them, who have the power to take them. So kind of weakening them by giving them a bunch of unruly vassals instead of land or the like strikes me as a situation that'd lead to an annexed Rome quickly instead. Now sure how that'd play out in the region. I suspect "Gets painted purple fast" is the most likely outcome but I wouldn't know.
 
Because they're full of Balogna?

... bad pun aside...

Not really something I could see myself, in the sense of what the game mechanics allows. Though a lot of the comments with the Papacy makes me think less historical and more gameplay. As in the Papal State is in a vulnerable spot anyway with Aragon and Naples, along with Venice. They're in a spot where there's more than a few wanting to take them, who have the power to take them. So kind of weakening them by giving them a bunch of unruly vassals instead of land or the like strikes me as a situation that'd lead to an annexed Rome quickly instead. Now sure how that'd play out in the region. I suspect "Gets painted purple fast" is the most likely outcome but I wouldn't know.

That's kind of historically accurate, though. The Papacy only centralized as much as it did because it relied on France and Spain militarily. It only conquered and fully integrated the Romagna because Julius II had been chummy with the French, and it almost turned out badly for him. While the Pope may have been the top dog in theory, he had to tiptoe around the Great Powers that were slowly eating their way into Italy.
 
No split for Corsica to further strengthen Genoa?
Nah, the merchant republics aren’t good at ruling more provinces. Should probably just give it to the pirates instead; they know how to run effective government at least :p
 
Well it's here and I can't say I'm surprised but I'm just incredibly disappointing, which seems excessive but I think there's good reason to feel exasperated after Valtellina was ignored again.

As already mentioned by several others, the valleys of Valtellina, Valchiavenna and Bormio were one of the most strategically important valleys of the 17th century. I don't think I have to go into detail the amount of times the region has changed hands, the thousands of troops that pass through the region, the most powerful nations in Europe vying for control of it or the feuding religious dimensions of the region, Paradox should know this, history is their business and the clashes between Milan, the Grey Leagues, the Pope, the Habsurgs, France and Napoleon should be self-evident. Even from a completely gameplay perspective a province to represent the Valtellina valley would make a natural direct point of passage between Habsburg Italy and Austria and the province would be more than large enough to be clickable and interactable for the player.

I just want to know the thinking behind why one of the most contested and valued territories in early-Modern European history would not deserve a province than what is the requirement? Because that's a big question a lot of us are asking @Ofaloaf @Caligula Caesar @DDRJake

820px-Geschichte_Graubuenden.png
 
Last edited:
Sounds intriguing. Will it be possible to form Italy without Rome, for example. This was always somewhat fishy to me, as the Napoleonic Italy did not include Rome. I know that Form Italy is not meant to be just Napoleonic Italy but all kind of concepts of Italy from the era, but still, I think a Romeless Italy should be possible.
.
Without mentioning the fact that when Italy was formed irl, it didn't have Rome...
And in this way, catholic Italy (without having to convert to protestant) would be still somehow viable.
Maybe a decision to switch capital to Rome when/if conquered?
 
Without mentioning the fact that when Italy was formed irl, it didn't have Rome...
And in this way, catholic Italy (without having to convert to protestant) would be still somehow viable.
Maybe a decision to switch capital to Rome when/if conquered?

An event would be better, decisions don't usually feel important over major affairs. An example would be crushing the Prussian Confederation as the Teutonic Order, you click the decision and nothing happens really. Meanwhile an example of a capital change event would be with Spain who has an event to keep the current capital or move it to Madrid, each with pros and cons. I could see an event where once Italy captures and cores the province of Rome, an event pops up with the choice and perhaps it can influence the way the Papal State works afterward.
 
Hi, it's a good improve of the italian map.
But I suggest more provinces in the centre-north of the penisula taken from these pictures.
Here the link for the credits: http://www.federicopellizzi.it/Custodi/Terze/Dai_comuni_alle_signorie.pdf
Obviously not all the provinces exist as independent State in 1444 (some of them can be part of the starting territories of a faction or vassals), but the political conformation of the province can create in Italy more strategy and complexity like in the HRE.
 

Attachments

  • jkj.png
    jkj.png
    2,6 MB · Views: 85
Last edited:
Because they're full of Balogna?

... bad pun aside...

Not really something I could see myself, in the sense of what the game mechanics allows. Though a lot of the comments with the Papacy makes me think less historical and more gameplay. As in the Papal State is in a vulnerable spot anyway with Aragon and Naples, along with Venice. They're in a spot where there's more than a few wanting to take them, who have the power to take them. So kind of weakening them by giving them a bunch of unruly vassals instead of land or the like strikes me as a situation that'd lead to an annexed Rome quickly instead. Now sure how that'd play out in the region. I suspect "Gets painted purple fast" is the most likely outcome but I wouldn't know.

Shall I remind you that Naples is under PU with Aragon and as of now does not get liberated as should be? So in Pope is friend with Aragon/Spain has no threat to the South, even an ally sinceramente Naples’s troops are just around the corner.

Venice has Austria, Milan and the Ottomans to worry about, so the Pope is not on their to-kill-immediately list. Moreover, the Pope can get alliances with almost any catholic nation.

The key factor of the Papacy was the diplomacy, not the Battle Popes.

Apart from strategic considerations, the Kingdom of Naples and the Papal States should be “Historical Friends”. That is less incentive to conquer one another. The splitting of Lazio-Campania eliminated some other reasons to go to war, but Abruzzi in a State with Ancona and Urbino was not the soundest choice.