EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of September 2021

[Hezekiah]

I'd sure like to hire the Portuguese Musketeers as Portugal. The expedition has higher military quality than Portuguese armies! Where did these men actually come from? England? One of the British Pirate Republics? Surely not +10% artillery combat ability Portugal.

 

[ArtFart]

Nice Dev Diary!

 

[emirhqn]

Looks very nice

 

[holyvigil]

You click on your avatar in the upper left corner, go to 'Watched threads', select the one(s) you want to unfollow then scroll down to the bottom and there is a 'With the selected' droplist from which you can choose the unfollow action then press go.

Thank you very much.

Why did they increase the number of clicks to 5? Everytime this forum gets updated it becomes more and more of a slog of pointless time consumption.

 

[Sete]

I'd sure like to hire the Portuguese Musketeers as Portugal. The expedition has higher military quality than Portuguese armies! Where did these men actually come from? England? One of the British Pirate Republics? Surely not +10% artillery combat ability Portugal.

Its exhausting.
And it's an easy fix.
Ill do the work free of charge:

Traditions:
+10% Infantry combat ability

Spoiler: Besteiros do Conto

Throughout their existence as a military force, the besteiros do conto (crossbowmen)2 played a fundamental role in the battles fought by the Portuguese Crown.
It is believed that they first began to be organized in the late thirteenth and early fourteenth centuries by Dom Dinis or Dom Afonso IV.
The recruitment of men for this militia was to be made from among the artisans, preferably those who were married and did not till the land on a permanent basis with a yoke of oxen. Were it not possible to find the necessary men from among this group when replacing the force’s members in the event of death, the Ordenações Afonsinas decreed that recruitment could be made from other sectors (Ordenações Afonsinas 1984: 437, vol. I, título LXIX, n.º 29).
This military force continued to form part of the Portuguese army for almost two centuries, eventually being suppressed by Dom Manuel I at the end of the fifteenth century, at the Lisbon Cortes of 1498 (Santos 2005: 197). However, the role played by the besteiros do conto was gradually taken over by other military forces serving the Portuguese crown. The organization of this medieval militia was an important source of know-how that provided the basis for creating and regulating the espingardeiros do conto,11 the militia of musketeers who replaced the besteiros do conto and played a leading role in the appearance and spread of firearms. These two groups did, however, coexist with one another in the last two decades of the fifteenth century (Martins 2008: 395).

+25% Colonial range

Legacy of the Navigator
−33% Morale hit when losing a ship
+5% Ship durability

Feitorias
+10% Fort defense
+10% Global trade power

India Armadas
+2 Naval Leader Shock

Spoiler: Naval Tactics

Roughly speaking, Portuguese preferred to deploy and use light and medium artillery, mostly breech loaders to fire grape shots at the enemy infantry. Their preferred naval tactics was to approach enemy ships, fire their anti-personel artillery and engage in boarding. The warrior culture of their nobleman captains and man-at-arms, as well as desire of booty, had resulted in a desire to "prove themselves" and engage in hand to hand combat, but at the same time they wholeheartedly used cannons, firearms, and other ranged weapons.

Spice Trade Monopoly
+15% Trade Steering

Land Before Faith
+15 Global settler increase

Encourage the Bandeirantes
+10% Goods produced modifier

Royal Absolutism
−15% Construction cost
+0.50 Yearly absolutism

Ambition:

+20% Global tariffs

Portuguese Seaborne Empire 1415-1825

A History of Portugal and the Portuguese Empire: From Beginnings to 1807 Volume I and Volume II.

Portuguese Sea Battles - Volume I - The First World Sea Power 1139-1521 (there is at least half a dozen volumes)

Conquerors - How Portugal forged the first global empire

The Portuguese in the Age of Discovery 1340-1665

The Military Orders Volume IV


Free Resources:

Knights, Squires and Foot Soldiers in Portugal during the Sixteenth-Century Military Revolution

The Portuguese Art of War in Northern
Morocco during the 15th Century

O ensino e a aprendizagem militares em Portugal e no Império, de D. João III a D. Sebastião: a arte portuguesa da guerra. (it's not in english)

 

[KRAKATIK]

View attachment 758376

Fitting flag for Somalia's reputation

 

[bokorthedust]

Thank you very much.

Why did they increase the number of clicks to 5? Everytime this forum gets updated it becomes more and more of a slog of pointless time consumption.

You're welcome. I actually clicked around to figure it out, because I too frequently read the forums from mobile and was interested, should the need arise. Would be simpler if they put a button like at the end of a thread or just make the little bell clickable on the thread list, but I guess UX designers have to work for their keep too

 

[BurningEGO]

So while i do agree that Portugal is navaly underpowered, i believe that Spain is even more so.
Portugal should have an A-tier Navy, like the Netherlands, but Spain should be S-tier, capable of rivaling Great Britain itself.

Why should Spain ever be able to challenge England?

I mean, are you even aware that the strongest ships that fought against the English Armada (as part of the Spanish Invencible Armada) were... Portuguese? As said previously, even the flagships were Portuguese, because Portuguese warships were known to be of superior quality by far. I don't see why we are even discussing this because back at the time this was a known fact.

Most war vessels Spain had for the majority of the game's timeframe were ships made for boarding tactics and not for cannon fighting. Pratically, ships similar to in-game galleys while Portugal always had ocean-worthy ships with plenty of cannons and were one of the first to use them to great effect during this time (see battle of Diu, the second most important naval engagment in the world that was a real game changer). Why do you think the Spanish Invencible Armada lost so badly against the English? The English Armada, like the Portuguese, focused on cannons and not on boarding. Most Spanish ships sank before even causing any impact on the battle, and forced the Portuguese ships to be isolated and fight alone in more than one ocasion. Spanish ships were slow, barely had cannons and were pratically sitting ducks when compared to English/Portuguese ships (again, speaking about majority of the game's timeframe).

Sure, in 400 years of game time, Spain changed more than once in naval terms, but for the majority of the game's time frame, as said, they were a mediteranean hegemon in naval terms (with naval combat focused on boarding tactics), and not an atlantic hegemon (again a known fact you can easily check around). Definetely crushed the Turks but their fleet was far below quality when compared to the English / Portuguese probably even the Dutch Pre-Ruyter. Probably even the Dannish fleet was of superior quality, but my knownledge about the dannish fleet is limited so I can't comment much.

I can see the argument being made for Spain to have better naval ideas than Portugal tbh.

As far as direct naval confrontation is concerned, i'll have to give an edge to Spain since in the few naval battles between these two countries i cannot remember a single Portuguese victory but i can remember a couple of Spanish victories (I'm talking Spain Spain, not Castile, since Portugal indeed thoroughly beat Castile in the ocean in the 15th century).

i don't know which naval battles you are speaking about but you are probably speaking about the few naval engagments between Portuguese Pretenders (pratically, rebels) and Spanish forces (which, had the bulk of the Portuguese armada included in its ranks). This phrase pretty much already says everything. Not only were the Portuguese Pretenders just that, and irrelevant to a discussion between Portugal vs Spain in military terms, but the Spanish forces also had the bulk of the Portuguese armada included in its ranks, because Portugal was part of the Iberian Union with Spain.

In any case, those few battles you are probably speaking about, only show how superior the Portuguese ships were, because they (together with Spanish ships) were able to defeat English / French ships on national shore quite easily and pratically unoposed.

My biggest grievance however, is as far as flagships are concerned. Because in that regard there is hard evidence that the Portuguese had the ship with the most firepower in Iberian History (and yet Spain gets the special cannons modifier) and the flagships of the "Spanish" armadas were often Portuguese ships.

I agree with you there. Spanish colossal ships like the Santissima Trindad three decker used during the Napoleonic Wars had little more than 130 cannons, while the Botafogo I mentioned (which was built more than 200 years before the Santissima Trindad) had over 360 in total. The difference is clear, despite the time difference.

And Portugal doesn't have a lot of victories against other European countries under their belt (other than against the Dutch, which even then was basically a tie).

On a side note, and again, Portugal did defeat English, Dutch, Ottomans, Mameluk, Venetian and countless other naval forces throughout the world (many of those 'others' were 3rd world powers either located in Africa or Asia so pretty irrelevant for most people - still, even local 'primitive powers' like Aceh were able to muster about 236 ships to fight against Portugal, so not that weak to be frank).

English forces on the Indian ocean were defeated in many engagments, and so were the Dutch forces. Portugal fought during 1600-1650 pretty hard to keep their colonial empire in asia, in most cases against Dutch-English forces, who tried to rob the Portuguese of their Empire. These 2 (Dutch and English forces) tried to attack the Portuguese together many times and often lost! In many cases, even with the help of locals. You might include or not the Ottomans as an European power, but they were almost always defeated as well despite their numbers. Unsure why you say that Portugal didn't have 'a lot of victories against other European countries' though. Probably because you are unaware of those, like the vast majority of people.

All of that and not even a single bonus to represent their naval might (apart from the lousy Legacy of the Navigator which I don't even consider a bonus)! I mean, even Date, Butuan and Majapahit (3rd world powers that pratically had no significance during this time) deserve a bonus to their big ship combat ability but Portugal (who was known to built and posess the biggest ships for a period of almost 100 years and for defeating countless fleets during this time and also responsible for the 2nd biggest naval battle in the world that had great effects worldwide) deserve... Nothing. Not even naval tradition, naval stats for leaders or anything at all, lol. Not trying to derail the topic, but its funny that Paradox Devs know about some remote battle against some isolated Portuguese garrisons but fail to understand how strong the Portuguese fleet was during this time for instance (amongst other things).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, back to the topic - this is the mighty campaign that Ajuuraan and their mighty and numerous coalition managed to win (for a short time) against 'Portuguese aggression'. Gogogo Paradox!

On a side note, in the end, even the Ottoman leader was captured and eventually converted to Christianity and lived the rest of his glorious life in Portugal (Europe). The Portuguese were indeed irresistible!

(back then as well as today, but lets not speak about that part, ok?)

 

[BurningEGO]

I'd sure like to hire the Portuguese Musketeers as Portugal. The expedition has higher military quality than Portuguese armies! Where did these men actually come from? England? One of the British Pirate Republics? Surely not +10% artillery combat ability Portugal.

You and me both. I am still perplexed that even Indians can have special regiments (Rajputs) and that they never added any for Iberia. Iberia, which was known for its Tercios, which dominated warfare for countless decades (unlike the Rajputs that never dominated anything at all and were actually usually dominated by others!).

The military qualities of these mercs in comparison with the Portuguese army would be easily rectified if Tercios existed (as a special regiment) and were stronger than normal troops.

EDITED: Now they are adding Cawa Regiments for Ethiopia but still nothing for Iberia... LUL WUT? Seriously Paradox...

 

[Wixelt]

Will provinces getting both arid and monsoon modifiers be fixed?

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

Missed Opportunities for:
A. Significant update/edit to the Coptic religion.
B. Ethiopian Mission Tree events with significant religious events (at least 2-3 buttons/events, if not more, that are religion centric).
C. "Fork in the Road" decision for Ethiopian religious choice for remainder of play-through, based on events.

I'm not suggesting that Coptic faith nations be buffed with more power, but there could be much more detail, metrics/mechanics involved with gaining and maintaining buffs in the Coptic faith, more options (positive AND negative).

For Ethiopia specifically, there's an additional missed opportunity to create an impactful "Fork in the Road" event for their religious future, whether to stay with the starting religion/Coptic or convert to a different religion. This in itself could have it's own 2-3 button path in the Mission Tree, for example.

To not have the Mission Tree commit at least 2-3 buttons toward a Religious goal, seems wrong, for Ethiopia, considering their significant engagement with Pre-Christ Israel, and then the engagement with the new Christian faith that spreads after Christ (Ethiopia gets several mentions in the Christian Bible, across many different time periods, as example). Obviously the King Solomon marital ties/genetic ties that result in historic debates, could itself result in much more than even this proposed Mission Tree could provide. Pop-up events galore could be created to mix/match based on the religious faith of Ethiopia, combined with whether the monarchy remains a Solomon descendant.

I just think that Paradox Developers should not quickly "move on" and quick-edit the next African Nation -- I think you're only half-done with Ethiopia (if that), as there's so much more that you should consider, in that Ethiopia could go any of 3 separate paths based on embracing Coptic faith, or Judaism, or some other religion (even the potential for a non-Solomon usurper to revert the nation to pagan practices).

Also, is this an update for Portugal and Ottomans or Ethiopia? Hey, we're finally seeing an Ethiopia update - let's please focus on Ethiopia for Soloman's sake. I think you tried too hard to insert the Ottomans and Portugal events into the game, especially as Mercenaries - which they weren't. Here's a recommendation - if it's "too hard" to get the AI to do, then leave it out, and don't compromise to an unhistorical Mercenary event as Plan B. Just hit that Delete button, much like you did with the Mali Gold Nerf for Europe.

There are many "Yay, Ethiopia" emotional responses here, because there are many players who have wanted to see something/anything updated for Ethiopia. But if what you propose is it? Then Ethiopia isn't done yet, and in the long term will be perceived as a significant "Missed Opportunity" on many fronts, both Ethiopia and Coptic faith, along with player options for religious play-through pathways.

EDIT: and yet one more idea - you could add in the potential for Ethiopia to transition post-Solomon dynasty, to transition Government system into a unique Coptic Theocracy (or other Religion Theocracy) that doesn't yet exist in the game.

 

[1stcast]

For the hydraulic rights modifier Ajuuraan is it multiplicative or additive. Like do those terrain types become equal to grasslands or does it just half the penalty. IE are deserts +25% dev cost or 0% dev cost.

 

[HeptaEpiThebas]

Additionally, the ahistorical state of Macina has been annexed by Mali, although we're working on a better balancing of this area, as Mali may be a bit overpowered with this extra provinces.

What led to the conclusion that Macina was ahistorical? The list of rulers in Macina's history file roughly corresponds to the list given here on wikipedia, sourced from a seemingly reputable encyclopedia of African states and rulers. The book puts the foundation of the Macina Fulani proto-state around 1400 AD and describes it as a vassal kingdom first to the Mali and then to various other local powers. Given the new Mali balance issue, instead of being removed Macina could perhaps start as a rebellious vassal?

In further support of not removing Macina from the map, the actual filename for the country is 'Zafunu' (Diafunu), which this page describes as being an old and significant vassal of Mali. In 'the early fifteenth century' (prior to 1433) it underwent a coup and seceded from Mali sovereignty under a new dynasty called Diawara. This section cites The Cambridge History of Africa Vol. III.

So even if the early Macina kings aren't super important, it definitely seems like the northern half of Mali had fallen outside the effective control of the emperors in 1444.

 

[JKiller96]

What led to the conclusion that Macina was ahistorical? The list of rulers in Macina's history file roughly corresponds to the list given here on wikipedia, sourced from a seemingly reputable encyclopedia of African states and rulers. The book puts the foundation of the Macina Fulani proto-state around 1400 AD and describes it as a vassal kingdom first to the Mali and then to various other local powers. Given the new Mali balance issue, instead of being removed Macina could perhaps start as a rebellious vassal?

In further support of not removing Macina from the map, the actual filename for the country is 'Zafunu' (Diafunu), which this page describes as being an old and significant vassal of Mali. In 'the early fifteenth century' (prior to 1433) it underwent a coup and seceded from Mali sovereignty under a new dynasty called Diawara. This section cites The Cambridge History of Africa Vol. III.

So even if the early Macina kings aren't super important, it definitely seems like the northern half of Mali had fallen outside the effective control of the emperors in 1444.

That source is from 1989. I have collections of books on the area from around that time and they aren't always the best and often give conflicting information. One of these is that volume of Cambridge History, which is sitting right in front of me. I wouldn't doubt that such kingdoms existed as vassals or nominal tributaries with a king or Islamic leader at their head, but given Mali's decentralized rule it can often be difficult to discern whether or not such an area would exist under Mali jurisdiction. Borders were not cut and clean and such states could exist as towns/villages could be mixed together and have different loyalties/ethnic groups. I will check this over.

 

[moscal]

Do other nations also should have Itinerant Capital?

Cossack nations also had "Itinerant Capital".

 

[MrSnert]

What led to the conclusion that Macina was ahistorical? The list of rulers in Macina's history file roughly corresponds to the list given here on wikipedia, sourced from a seemingly reputable encyclopedia of African states and rulers. The book puts the foundation of the Macina Fulani proto-state around 1400 AD and describes it as a vassal kingdom first to the Mali and then to various other local powers. Given the new Mali balance issue, instead of being removed Macina could perhaps start as a rebellious vassal?

In further support of not removing Macina from the map, the actual filename for the country is 'Zafunu' (Diafunu), which this page describes as being an old and significant vassal of Mali. In 'the early fifteenth century' (prior to 1433) it underwent a coup and seceded from Mali sovereignty under a new dynasty called Diawara. This section cites The Cambridge History of Africa Vol. III.

So even if the early Macina kings aren't super important, it definitely seems like the northern half of Mali had fallen outside the effective control of the emperors in 1444.

The article you’re linking to literally states that Macina was founded in the 19th century with the list of rulers that goes back to ca 1400 clearly a list of Fulani rulers, (not emperors or even kings of Macina) probably a lineage traditionally traced back by the Fulani dynasty of rulers of Macina for legitimacy etc., but even the Fulani kingdom had not properly been formed by 1444.

Now Zafunu could be a tag in roughly the same area as the old Macina tag was, and with more historical reasoning behind it. Zafunu was a succesor state of the Empire of Ghana, but there is no evidence it still existed in 1444, and some evidence that it didn’t. Still, it could be a dormant tag (making carving up Mali easier). But Zafunu, likely being a Soninke Mande state, would not be a predecessor of Macina. I proposed Macina’s inclusion as a formable tag, being a powerful Fulani Jihad state that should be an option to form for Fulani and Mande cultures.

You could give the area to a vassal tag of Mali, possibly called Diara, as it was the sultan of Diara, vassal to Mali, that invited Songhai intervention in the region because of Fulani unrest some years later, which certainly suggests a level of autonomy in this region, but basically this is how the Empire of Mali (and really all empires) functioned, with governor-sultans ruling the regions outside the Mandinge heartland. A more accurate portrayal of the Empire than simply it having a string of vassals is a weakened Mali that loses control over these regions in the years after 1444 and with some dormant or rebel tags allowing for the emergence of these entities.

I for one applaud the disappearance of Macina, as well as the appearance of the Mossi states. It is a far more accurate portrayal of West Africa in this timeframe than previously, although more could be done, obviously, if it included map-changes.

 

[Elu Thingol]

These changes looks great!

I would be great if there also were more minor events added regarding the search for the kingdom of Prester John, and maybe about the diplomacy between the copts and the other branches of chrstianity.

Also, this would be a great time to give us some more jewish stuff, and just maaaaybe some changes that increases the chance of a jewish nation survining. (At least noe and then).

 

[yelseW]

I think within the Ethiopia Mission Tree there should be some mission related to the Ark of the Covenant, since there's one in the Crusader States Mission Tree.

Based in Kebra Nagast, there should also be created the mission "Heir of Solomon", which would give Ethiopia a permanent claim to the region that would comprise the Kingdom of Israel and Judah.

The island of Socotra was conquered by an Ethiopian expeditionary force in 880 and a Oriental Orthodox bishop was consecrated. The Ethiopians were later dislodged by a large armada sent by Imam Al-Salt bin Malik of Oman. Maybe you could add a "Reconquer Socotra" mission and an event - if owning the island - "Give Socotra to Portugal in exchange of an army, ducats and or form an alliance with them".

 

[RMS Oceanic]

For the hydraulic rights modifier Ajuuraan is it multiplicative or additive. Like do those terrain types become equal to grasslands or does it just half the penalty. IE are deserts +25% dev cost or 0% dev cost.

I assume +25% dev cost would become +12.5% dev cost, applied only to the penalty.

 

[Sappho of Lesbos]

Missed Opportunities for:
A. Significant update/edit to the Coptic religion.
B. Ethiopian Mission Tree events with significant religious events (at least 2-3 buttons/events, if not more, that are religion centric).
C. "Fork in the Road" decision for Ethiopian religious choice for remainder of play-through, based on events.

I'm not suggesting that Coptic faith nations be buffed with more power, but there could be much more detail, metrics/mechanics involved with gaining and maintaining buffs in the Coptic faith, more options (positive AND negative).

For Ethiopia specifically, there's an additional missed opportunity to create an impactful "Fork in the Road" event for their religious future, whether to stay with the starting religion/Coptic or convert to a different religion. This in itself could have it's own 2-3 button path in the Mission Tree, for example.

To not have the Mission Tree commit at least 2-3 buttons toward a Religious goal, seems wrong, for Ethiopia, considering their significant engagement with Pre-Christ Israel, and then the engagement with the new Christian faith that spreads after Christ (Ethiopia gets several mentions in the Christian Bible, across many different time periods, as example). Obviously the King Solomon marital ties/genetic ties that result in historic debates, could itself result in much more than even this proposed Mission Tree could provide. Pop-up events galore could be created to mix/match based on the religious faith of Ethiopia, combined with whether the monarchy remains a Solomon descendant.

I just think that Paradox Developers should not quickly "move on" and quick-edit the next African Nation -- I think you're only half-done with Ethiopia (if that), as there's so much more that you should consider, in that Ethiopia could go any of 3 separate paths based on embracing Coptic faith, or Judaism, or some other religion (even the potential for a non-Solomon usurper to revert the nation to pagan practices).

Also, is this an update for Portugal and Ottomans or Ethiopia? Hey, we're finally seeing an Ethiopia update - let's please focus on Ethiopia for Soloman's sake. I think you tried too hard to insert the Ottomans and Portugal events into the game, especially as Mercenaries - which they weren't. Here's a recommendation - if it's "too hard" to get the AI to do, then leave it out, and don't compromise to an unhistorical Mercenary event as Plan B. Just hit that Delete button, much like you did with the Mali Gold Nerf for Europe.

There are many "Yay, Ethiopia" emotional responses here, because there are many players who have wanted to see something/anything updated for Ethiopia. But if what you propose is it? Then Ethiopia isn't done yet, and in the long term will be perceived as a significant "Missed Opportunity" on many fronts, both Ethiopia and Coptic faith, along with player options for religious play-through pathways.

EDIT: and yet one more idea - you could add in the potential for Ethiopia to transition post-Solomon dynasty, to transition Government system into a unique Coptic Theocracy (or other Religion Theocracy) that doesn't yet exist in the game.

I wonder if the "Convert the Jews" mission will include an option to convert to Judaism.