EU4 - Development Diary -22nd of May 2018

[KimmelZhang123]

hey, so factions no longer expect to share a certain percentage of the benefit, then why there are any factions? Making the game easier to gain more popularity? this is just stupid.

 

[count95]

@DDRJake

A- Marathas were not a caste of warriors in 1444. They were, in fact a caste of landed peasantry. It was only after Rise of Shivaji and the Maratha kingdom (c. 1650-1680) that they became a caste of warriors. Even then, their influence at the time was limited to the region which is now in Western Maharashtra. It was only after the Northward expansion of the Maratha Empire (under Bajirao Peshwa) that the Maratha clans began to establish themselves in different parts of Central India. Please note here, that Maratha clans did not establish themselves so much in South (so giving Maratha "estate" to Dravidians is a total immersion breaker and ahistorical). In many ways the Maratha clans which established themselves outside Maharasthra can be compared to Normans establishing themselves in England, Sicily or, indeed, Normandy itself.

I would disagree with this. Marathas were established warrior and landed nobility class long before Shivaji created a independent kingdom. It was just that their presence outside North Deccan was limited and they acquired landed estates outside that region after Maratha expansion.

During Bahamani and later Deccan Sultanate period, in North Deccan , Marathas were the main landed nobility. Most of troops and zamindars, deshmukhs of Ahmednagar Sultanate and Bijapur Sultanate were Marathas. In later period, Marathas even held landed estates in South around Bangalore and Tanjavar.

 

[grommile]

hey, so factions no longer expect to share a certain percentage of the benefit, then why there are any factions?

Because if you want to actually benefit from having them, you will still need to feed them land.

You just aren't forced to feed them scraps of land every couple of wars to keep them from setting the country on fire.

 

[Sir Tornado]

I would disagree with this. Marathas were established warrior and landed nobility class long before Shivaji created a independent kingdom. It was just that their presence outside North Deccan was limited and they acquired landed estates outside that region after Maratha expansion.

During Bahamani and later Deccan Sultanate period, in North Deccan , Marathas were the main landed nobility. Most of troops and zamindars, deshmukhs of Ahmednagar Sultanate and Bijapur Sultanate were Marathas. In later period, Marathas even held landed estates in South around Bangalore and Tanjavar.

Mostly only in the territories of Ahmednagar and Bijapur which used to fall in what is now western Maharashtra stretching south upto Belgaum.

The settlement in Tanjavar came along because one of Shivaji's half brothers actually managed to capture that area and became the ruler over there.

 

[Hessian Mercenary]

This is an excellent change, and one I'm very happy for. These games have long needed a more robust system dealing with a nation's internal political system.

I hope that for EU5 estates are in day one.

Did you miss the part where they made estates completely optional? Seems to me that Paradox themselves still are not sure about what they want estates to be, but currently they prefer to just add regional flavor estates. So I'm not expecting them to become a meaningful internal system in the near future

 

[Ivashanko]

Did you miss the part where they made estates completely optional? Seems to me that Paradox themselves still are not sure about what they want estates to be, but currently they prefer to just add regional flavor estates. So I'm not expecting them to become a meaningful internal system in the near future

I only play mods so it doesn't particularly affect me, but I'm more hoping that it will be a fundamental part of EU5 rather than EU4.

 

[Sounds]

This about estates:

... lack of immersion ... posing as a nuisance in many areas of the game ... a burden and a chore for a player ... counter-intuitive. ...

I know these points are out of context, but are you really planining on fixing this as a free update? If so wow . To do any less would be a distaster.

Concerned this looks more like a way to nickel and dime it for further ‘immersion packs’ rather than provide anything of real substance for the base game. Fingers crossed I’m just reading too much into it.

 

[MateuszNH]

About policies, i hope this will buff cavalry, because right now it's really bad and policies are one of reasons(espionage+aristocratic, both not good enough to have them), it's strong only in early, being bad late is fine but that should be something ~1730 year(from 1550 cavalry should be getting worse and worse but not that bad like right now, and not in eastern tech grup, their cavalry is suprisingly one of worst), right now it's getting useless after 16 tech when artillery become superior(maybe it's still worth to keep 4 cavalry but only to flank armies that don't fill combat width, the only advantage of cavalry...), this is bad for countries like qq, Persia Hungary or Poland, Ottomans too(but they are strong enough) . Maybe cavalry overall should have some bonus scalling with manuver and fill flanking range to that instead of combat width ? Also going colonisation and expansion(this one is bad overall) is weakening combat strength too much, while economic provides amazing policy. Did i mention neighbouring religions protestant both muslim and especially orthodox being too op compared to catholic? protestant as better option is kind of understandable to convince player to change in reformation, but the strongest catholic nations should get better bonuses anyway, instead of unfair random papal control that is helpful only to expansion into HRE, anglican is just better catholic to spawn money(mercantilism machine), reformed also need buff because it's much worse than protestant, idea of it is great(showing strength in crisis situation fill Netherlands very well) but it's ridiculous that you need to collect fervor to have one bonus, and u can only accumulate 100 of it, while protestant is getting 3 pernament.(they are smaller but together they are better anyway, and u don't need to collect anything)
It's mostly about multiplayer but these changes would be good also for single.

I love u are going deep with estates, this mechanic has so much potential, but i expect most to see those policies, this may be crucial change, but also bad one, i hope u can handle this properly and my tips may be helpful<3.

 

[Lysistrata]

So I'm guessing you guys have new estates planned? I hope you'll at least add more localisations for the "Call Diet" interaction to make it more fitting for non-Western-Europeans, maybe even a Merchant Republics estate for, e.g. the Byzantines and other east Mediterranean/Black Sea states to replace the Burghers, a concept that didn't really exist outside western Europe AFAIK.

 

[FleetingRain]

@DDRJake

Ok, I'm an Indian, and I don't mean to be harsh but you have just broken the immersion in this game completely by naming the Estates the way you did.

Estate Analogous to Nobility

I understand that you have included Maratha and Rajput estates as "Nobility" estate for Indians. But this is not entirely accurate. Let me tell you why.

A- Marathas were not a caste of warriors in 1444. They were, in fact a caste of landed peasantry. It was only after Rise of Shivaji and the Maratha kingdom (c. 1650-1680) that they became a caste of warriors. Even then, their influence at the time was limited to the region which is now in Western Maharashtra. It was only after the Northward expansion of the Maratha Empire (under Bajirao Peshwa) that the Maratha clans began to establish themselves in different parts of Central India. Please note here, that Maratha clans did not establish themselves so much in South (so giving Maratha "estate" to Dravidians is a total immersion breaker and ahistorical). In many ways the Maratha clans which established themselves outside Maharasthra can be compared to Normans establishing themselves in England, Sicily or, indeed, Normandy itself.

B- Rajputs were concentrated only in the region which is now Rajasthan, parts of Gujarat and western parts of modern day UP (areas just to east of Delhi). Finding Rajputs in Eastern India and especially Orissa is just wierd.

What I would recommend is this:

Marathas - Restrict to Western Aryan culture culture group alone (except Rajasthan)
Rajput - Restrict to Northern Aryan culture group alone
Reddy - Add thjis estate as "Nobility" estate for Dravidian culture groups
Eastern Aryans - I would recommend having a generic "Kshatriya" as Nobility estate.


Estate Analogous to Burghers

You have introduced the "Jain" Estate as estate comparable to "Burghers". However, this is also somewhat incorrect. Jains were not prevalent throughout the country and there were actual castes in India whose main function was money lending and commerce and you can happily use them for thus purpose. I recommend you use the following:

Northern Aryan: Agarwals
Western Aryan: Mahajans
Dravidian: Chettiar
Eastern Aryan: Banias

Vaishyas

I would recommend you replace Vaishyas with Kayasthas. They fit the flavour and mechanics much better than Vaishyas.

This is a good post but I didn't get one thing. Are you suggesting new Estates (as in, different interactions) or different flavor names for the current Indian Estates?

 

[saegoto]

when Estates are in vanilla they should give Enovys.

reduce base diplomats to 1, merchants to 1 too and missionary base number is 0.

loyal nobility gives +1 diplomats
loyal merchant guilds +1 merchants
loyal clegny + 1 missionary

 

[cristofolmc]

I wanted to ask, will there be new estate events now that they are free? I mean the three basic estates. Will they be written by Henrik Lohmander? I love his estate events. Can't tag him I don't know what name he goes by in these forums @DDRJake

 

[Camtheman]

I consider myself a vocal critic of Paradox's DLC system but this one I am actually excited for.

No unneccesary nerfs (cough Corruption)

No removed features from previous DLC (cough Protectorates)

and more customization and, dare I say the cliche term, 'immersion'

If the government customization system is fleshed out as much as I hope it will be and is extensively moddable I will be one happy critic

 

[Sunspawn]

I consider myself a vocal critic of Paradox's DLC system but this one I am actually excited for.

No unneccesary nerfs (cough Corruption)

No removed features from previous DLC (cough Protectorates)

and more customization and, dare I say the cliche term, 'immersion'

If the government customization system is fleshed out as much as I hope it will be and is extensively moddable I will be one happy critic

I am holding back the tides of optimism by withering them with every time in the past I was optimistic about a mechanic or feature and it turned out lazy and lackluster.

 

[Ulmo]

I am holding back the tides of optimism by withering them with every time in the past I was optimistic about a mechanic or feature and it turned out lazy and lackluster.

And the award goes to... drum roll... innovativenss.

 

[Slayen]

And the award goes to... drum roll... innovativenss.

Was anyone actually optimistic about innovativeness?

I mean, it was both lazy and lackluster, but did anyone really think it was going to be otherwise?

 

[Camtheman]

Was anyone actually optimistic about innovativeness?

I mean, it was both lazy and lackluster, but did anyone really think it was going to be otherwise?

Yeah this is how I feel. Its a very flat modifier. I feel similarly about professionalism and knowledge sharing, which is why I still do not own Rule Britannia. I know that I, with my somewhat limited modding skills, could have EASILY added Knowledge Sharing via mod and have it work probably identically to the way Paradox implemented it. Innovativeness would have been harder, would not look as pretty impletmented via mod but also definately doable.

This new government system seems different, more than just a lame static modifier, and if it disappoints... jeez...

 

[bly08]

Innovativeness could be useful just like professionalism if they're adjusted. At present there is nothing to consider in terms of trade-off as the benefits of both vs. their alternatives are far too weak.

 

[Sounds]

I am holding back the tides of optimism by withering them with every time in the past I was optimistic about a mechanic or feature and it turned out lazy and lackluster.

This is exactly my point. Seems pretty ambitious to fix in the base game for free, so have a feeling it will be pretty much underwhelming without the associated DLC/s - in this case it looks likely to be the Indian region, which is of little interest for me to play.

Not an instant purchase for me.

 

[KimmelZhang123]

Because if you want to actually benefit from having them, you will still need to feed them land.

You just aren't forced to feed them scraps of land every couple of wars to keep them from setting the country on fire.

I think it totally make sense if you are forced to feed some land to the factions, since they are political factions, which expect to get the fair share.