EU4 - Development Diary -22nd of May 2018

[Ixal]

Removing provinces from an unhappy estate causes rebellions and always have.

I just gave them a lot of land so the first few revokes are free. Only the last few might spawn rebels but I am i complete control of it and can simply park an army there.

What prevents you from doing that stuff now?

Currently I would end up with permanent penalties as the loyality wouldnt regenerate witout land. Now that is only temporary.

 

[TheDungen]

Any thoughts about adding additional estates for other regions? I'm thinking a Jewish estate for most of Europe. And if there will be new estates (and they're free) will this mean we get rid of the old faction system for Celestial monarchy, merchant republics, etc.
Finally, will this mean hordes don't have to give loads of their land to the tribes and their damned 50% autonomy
Changes look really good and it'll really help the estates system be the best it can be

No, just consider the jews as a part of the burghers estate. As far as I now no country ever turned entire cities over to jewish management. At least not intentionally.

Before the change we had 79% safe, 80% dangerous, 100% more dangerous (faster ticks).

Now we have 99% save, 100% dangerous.

How is this an improvement when it comes to weird binary threat levels ? Or did I miss something?


Other than that, this sounds pretty awesome. This and the new mission system are great expamples of how to do DLC right. Add a generic system for everyone, while giving yourself opportunities to sell us specialized options for however many years you want. I really like it

Yeah it seems pretty odd. would rather the static ticks go away entirely and instead ticks happen because of events events which are more likely to fire the higher the influence is. And where you can chose of either letting the disaster get closer or spending some other resource to not have it get closer. Kind of like flashpoint tension on Vic2, or even more in Vic2 with the HFM mod.
It's awesome because it's not just a mechanical tick but it actually comes with some story on what's going on.

Because people hate that event with a burning fury of a thousand suns.

They do? But border raids was a fact of life in real history, it also often was a convenient excuse for a war.

Yeah but then you could reDEV for an institution more easily
I still wish the Tatars had something similar to Cossacks to help differentiate the two types of steppe


Adding onto this, how do goverment reforms affect what estates you have, e.g can English Monarchy finally get nobles now

That'd be cool, non horde muslim governments with acess to the central Asiatic steppe get some institution to represent their nomads.

There's a province called Saratov. There's an area called Saratov.

Breakaway states have been there since Cossacks. Their name is taken from the province/area they're in.

Usually areas right?

 

[Groogy]

I just gave them a lot of land so the first few revokes are free. Only the last few might spawn rebels but I am i complete control of it and can simply park an army there.

In the new system it should be a bit harsher, I balanced the loyalty hit to be much harsher for removing provinces.

 

[ValhallArchitect]

Before the change we had 79% safe, 80% dangerous, 100% more dangerous (faster ticks).

Now we have 99% save, 100% dangerous.

How is this an improvement when it comes to weird binary threat levels ? Or did I miss something?


Other than that, this sounds pretty awesome. This and the new mission system are great expamples of how to do DLC right. Add a generic system for everyone, while giving yourself oportunities to sell us specialized options for however many years you want. I really like it

A better logic would be... 79% safe, 80% disasters slowly increases, 81% increases a bit quicker, 82% even quicker...100% disaster spawns instantly

 

[TheDungen]

What prevents me from not giving estates any provinces and when I want their one click mana give them a few provinces with autonomy, get their free stuff and revoke the provinces again?

Removing the minimum land requirement without anything to compensate is a horrible idea. It makes Estates even more into a mana pinjata and now there is no cost for it.

And of course the money bloat gets increased as now everyone has more effective dev because of the change...

Yeah I feel they have made the estates a bit to easy to manage now.

It's nice to see that estates will become free now, but I feel that they are also becoming casualised. Really, a disaster only at 100? They were so rare before, and now they will NEVER occur.

Yeah they've totally defanged them for some reason.

 

[Groogy]

They do? But border raids was a fact of life in real history, it also often was a convenient excuse for a war.

It's not the event in itself, it is the losing development that makes people hate it so much. There's a lot of psychology involved in that and think it is called loss aversion? That's why I decided to put a 10% tax malus instead of actively removing. It's similar to the big outcry against the loss of experience on your character in one of the D&D revisions.

 

[Golladan]

Usually areas right?

LIkely. Never really bothered to look into it. It's not like you had much control over it, or even reason to do it.

 

[flogi]

Yes

@Groogy: Will special troops be modable in the next patch to the extent that we can add new once?

 

[KuukoKurumi]

i actually dont dislike the -1 base tax penalty, since i just eventually kill whoever who dared do that to me

 

[Groogy]

@Groogy: Will special troops be modable in the next patch to the extent that we can add new once?

No

 

[ValhallArchitect]

So can there be a breakaway nation called 'Lisbon' ??

If it rebels from Portugal .I am not from Lisbon ,but i find it hilarious to have Lisbon and Portugal at the same time .

There are plenty of examples here in history. Just check the HRE, almost every city which belonged to a bishop or duke broke away...
one example among many being the bishopric of Koln and the free city of Koln

Although in this case you would have to have a Cossack estate in Lisbon, which is hardly possible as Portugal

 

[ᛒᛖᚱᛋᛖᚱᚲ]

Good day all! Today the team is all back and hard at work following an exhausting yet wonderful PDXCon. Thanks to everyone out there who contributed to its success by your presence. With our upcoming expansion now announced we return to talk in detail about the features and changes coming in Dharma.

Today we turn our attention to the much-teased Estates. To set the context for our changes I'm first going to outline the logic that lead our infinite wisdom to make these changes. Estates were introduced as a feature in The Cossacks DLC and while they were intended to be an interesting mechanic aimed to deepening the internal politics of your realm, they fell short in a number of ways. There were very few types of Estates, leading to a lack of immersion when you were dealing with the same groups when playing as either France or Bengal. Additionally, they ended up posing as a nuisance in many areas of the game. Their land demands would often feel a burden and a chore for a player, especially after finishing up a hard-won war. We also found that their disasters ticking up at 80% felt rather counter-intuitive. 79% was absolutely safe but 81% is danger zone? Additionally, with the feature being a paid part of The Cossacks, we were in a tricky situation with what to do with it.

As of the 1.26 Update, Estates shall be a free feature. This means that regardless if you own every expansion and immersion pack or if you have the base game and nothing more, you will have your estates in your nation, free to interact with, assign land to, reap rewards from and/or gain disfavour with and face internal strife. Coupled with this are some quality of life changes for Estates: No longer shall they demand a minimum amount of territory from your nation, leaving you free to choose if you want to indulge your various interest groups for their powerful support or shun them and forego the risks of them seizing power for themselves. Additionally, the aforementioned risk of disaster striking from overly powerful estates shall tick up when their influence is at 100% rather than the previous 80%

We are also free to further work upon the Estates system, which leads me nicely to the New Estates for India.

Indian nations will now have access to brand new Estates for the different Castes in the subcontinent. The following are available to nations in the subcontinent and largely replace the existing Estate types (merchant guilds, Clergy, Nobility) and are exclusive for owners of Dharma.

View attachment 371528

Marathas
While originally a term applied to all Marathi-speaking peoples, the Marathas have defined themselves as a caste of warriors. The Marathas are found both in their native home of Maharashtra and beyond, seeking opportunities for distinguished military service.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of culture group Dravidian, Western Aryan but not Rajput or Malvi culture.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally, Marathas impact on religious conversion chance while globally they impact on cavalry combat ability and army tradition

Interactions:

• Recruit Advisor
  • Commandant, Half Price, Hindu Faith, Marathi Culture, Gives 15% Influence
  • Requires 40% Influence
• Recruit from the Marathi
  • Give Manpower that increases with influence, costs 15 loyalty
  • Requires 30 loyalty, 40 influence
• Benign Neglect of Marathi
  • Give loyalty and influence, increase autonomy in assigned provinces.
    • Give 25% manpower modifier in provinces
  • Requires 40 influence
• Demand MIL Support
  • Gives Military power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
  • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
• Promote Maratha Nobility
  • Gives 10 Influence and 15 Loyalty

Brahmins
The Brahmins are the priestly caste of Hinduism. They are the keepers of ceremonies and scriptures, as few non-Brahmins are educated in Sanskrit literature. They command great respect from Hindus and non-Hindus alike, and sometimes take roles in government.

Available to all Hindu and Muslim nations in the Indian Tech Group.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Brahmins affect unrest and institution spread, while globally they affect stability cost, devotion and tax.

Interactions:

• Demand ADM Support
  • Gives Administrative power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
  • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
• Seek Support of Brahmins
  • Gives 15 loyalty, 10 influence for 5 prestige and 5 legitimacy
• Switch Hindu Deity (Hindu only)
  • Let you switch your hindu deity before your ruler dies.
  • Requires 40 loyalty, 40 influence
• Seek Legitimacy (Muslim only)
  • Increase tolerance of heathens and religious unity for influence
  • Requires 40 Loyalty, 20 influence
• Recruit Theologian
  • Gain Half price Theologian Advisor, Hindu faith for 15 Influence
  • Requires 40 Influence
• Make Generous Donation
  • Pay money to gain 15 loyalty

Vaishyas
In Vedic scripture, the Vaishya caste are laborers and agriculturalists of relatively low status. They have since branched out into more lucrative professions; merchants, craftsmen, men of money, they are the lifeblood of Indian commerce.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group Hindu nations.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Vaishyas impact on development cost and trade value, while globally they affect production efficiency and advisor cost

Interactions:

• Demand DIP support
  • Gives Diplomatic power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
  • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
• Recruit Minter
  • Give Hindu Master of Mint, Half Price for 15 Influence
  • Requires 40 Influence
• Draft Ships For War
  • Gives Heavy Ships for 15 loyalty
  • Requires 30 loyalty, 40 influence
• Limited War Support
  • Trigger War Taxes for 15 influence
  • Cooldown of 20 years, requires 30 loyalty
• Ask for Contributions
  • Gain money for 10 loyalty
  • Needs 30 Loyalty

Rajput
The Rajputs are an ancient caste of honorable warriors and proud nobles. While the rugged land of Rajasthan is the heart of their power, Rajput nobility can be found throughout northern India and many great Rajas claim Rajput descent.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of culture group Hindustani, Eastern Aryan, Central Indian and Rajasthani or Malvi culture.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Rajputs affect manpower and defensiveness while globally they impact on manpower regain and fort maintenance costs.

Interactions:

• Spawn Rajput Regiments
  • Capped by amount of provinces given to Rajput
    • Have -25% Drill Decay, 5% Discipline modifier
    • Can’t have more regiments of Rajput than you have provinces assigned to them
  • Costs 15 Loyalty and 5 Influence
  • Requires 50 loyalty and 40 influence
• Recruit Rajput General
  • Should spawn a General with +1 Fire base for 20 Influence
    • Takes Rajput name from the Rajasthani culture
  • Requires 30 Loyalty, 40 Influence
• Promote Purbias
  • Apply Rajput Regiment Only Modifier
    • Give 10% Land Fire Damage, 5% Discipline
  • Costs money and gives Autonomy to provinces
• Exempt Officers from Jaziya (muslim only)
  • Increase Loyalty by 15 for money
  • Requires 20 Influence
• Promote Rajput Nobility
  • Give 15 Loyalty and 10 Influence for 5 Prestige
• Demand MIL Support
  • Gives Military power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
  • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence

Jain Community
Jainism is no longer a dominant or politically favored faith in India, but the Jains are far from irrelevant. They have found a niche in moneylending and bureaucracy that makes them an asset to any state that offers them patronage.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of Hindu faith or replaces the Burgher Estate for Indian Muslims.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally the Jains affect state maintenance, manpower and tax, while globally they impact on interest rates, construction costs and construction speed.

Interactions:

• Loan Interaction
  • Create a Jain earmarked loan that has reduced -0.5/-1.0 interest depending on influence. It will remain at that fixed interest until paid off regardless of the nation's interest rate.
  • +10 influence
• Patronize Jain Families
  • Increase loyalty with 15 and influence with 10.
  • Cost 5 prestige
• Commission Jain Scripture
  • Increase 15 Loyalty, costs money
  • Requires 30 Influence
• Build Jain Temple (once per 20 years)
  • Get 10% development cost and one extra base tax in random Jain assigned province
  • Gives +15 Influence
  • Requires 40 Influence
• Investigate Corruption
  • Lose 2 Corruption, gives 10 Influence
  • Needs 60 Influence, 40 Loyalty
• Demand DIP support (If Muslim)
  • Gives Diplomatic power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
  • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence

Quite the impact for the subcontinent, but where does that leave owners of The Cossacks? Cossack owners will still exclusively have access to the titular Cossack estate type, as well as the Dhimmis and Tribes. We have also decided that The Cossacks owners will, with the 1.26 Update, also get the new feature to Play as breakaway Cossack Nations.

View attachment 371529

When the Cossacks disaster is triggered, you will have the option to play as said Cossack nation. You will be given the unique Power Structure reform Sich Rada granting tremendous cavalry bonuses, while having access to your own Government Interactions:

• Adm: Receive Fleeing Serfs
  • Get Random development in a province of a culture/religion that is repressed by another nation.
    • Repressed culture means it is not primary or accepted.
    • Repressed religion means it is not the religion of that nation.

• DIP: Organize Raiding Parties
  • +1 Hostile Attrition
  • +10% Movement Speed
• Mil: Raise Cossack Host
  • Spawn Cossack units like the Cossack Estate interaction.

View attachment 371530

To recap

• The Estates System is now free to all players as of the 1.26 update
• Dharma Owners will gain access to the new Indian Caste estates
• Owners of The Cossacks will have access to the Tribes, Dhimmi and Cossack estate types, while also gaining the new Breakaway Cossack Government to play as.

That's quite the lot for today, hopefully it makes up for the scandalously late dev diary courtesy of the exciting yet exhausting weekend of PDXCon2018. Next week, hmm, how about we take a look at how we're furthering our content for the Mission Trees introduced in Rule Britannia? Sounds great, see you then!

Wait wait wait... Why are you making Estates easier and more simplified instead of more complex and dynamic like we all just clamored for two months ago?

 

[billtwo]

I can imagine how new immersion packs will be developed, new government, new decision tree and now new estates.

 

[King Gwyn]

Additionally, the aforementioned risk of disaster striking from overly powerful estates shall tick up when their influence is at 100% rather than the previous 80%

Have the values of loyalty and influence for interaction mechanincs of the normal estates been changed also? Because it seems the estates are much easier to control now and get all their bonuses, unless this is intended.

 

[cristofolmc]

Wow a lot of new stuff here. I'd sure appreciate it if you @Groogy or @DDRJake could answer some for me.

1. Any new interactions for the basic estates (I'm thinking of cool ones like spawning units or give loans) or at least more and new events to give them more flavour (estates gaining more land thorugh events, or an event by which you can't remove land from them...?

2. Any new ways and sources for a estate to win influence so the disaster is still a danger (like absolutism, low gives more influence, high reduces it)? Because as of now, estates seem like a no brainer and certainly not like a counter internal power for struggle. Not like it did much before but now its even less.

3. To make up for no longer being required to give them land, have you increased the threshold under which they rebel? Everything under "happy" (60%) should make a rebelion in my opinion. Does also every dev point give them less autonomy so you have to give them more land to gain a bit more influence than before? That would be a nice compensation. I mean, now that its optiona, the risk and penalties should be higher now that the rewards are also greater. I mean, they are clearly much nerfed and easy to deal with now, taking much of the fun away from it. Are there any ways you haven't explained yet to make up for the loss of difficulty adding more difficulty to another areas of the estates system? Easier does not equal to more fun. Quite the oposite. I get it, people were annoyed by the minimum demand, but now its optional, the risks should be higier and to deal with them more tricksy since its basically an optional investment.

4.As of this patch, have you increased the number of other base features they interact with now that they are a basic chore game feature (like absolutism, ideas or national ideas, trade and trade companies, more events, and whatever other freature you can really think of)? If not, do you plan on doing so an integrate them with the rest of the game an mechanics bit by bit with every future patch?

5. And lastly. Now that you've finally integrated them into the base game. Can we expect further reworks of them in the future (given all the ideas from mods and suggestion in the suggestion forums) to make them more dynamic and interesting than the way they are now, which is basically a milking source of money and monarch point?

EDIT: 5.1. Any new ways to mod them? They are fully moddable now as in your idea of the estates, but very limited if you have another idea of what estates should be. And unless you are a coding genious like the guys from Meiou and Taxes, you can't really do much with the estates.

Thanks a lot guys, I'd love if you could clarify this stuff.

Cheers.

 

[Ixal]

In the new system it should be a bit harsher, I balanced the loyalty hit to be much harsher for removing provinces.

So in the end it comes down to if the time it takes for loyality to tick from 0 to 40 (or 10 to 40 when you save the +loyality click for after the revoke) is worth the benefit of not spending autonomy for them and always getting the max mana from clicks.

What exactly was the design decision to "defang" as someone put it estates so much?

And how will estate content look in the future? An actual rework or just paid exclusive estates for whatever region you focus on?

 

[loup99]

Excellent to see estates being made free and getting some love! While I always liked the concept of the feature I thought some aspects could be polished and improved upon.

 

[HottestRod]

Cossacks came out in 2015. Does making it free now take away your ability to use it over the past three years?

Hi there Cymsdale!

Let me shed some light on that: Cossacks won't be free in the future and you will still be able to play this specific DLC - only the Estates feature will be available to all from the 1.26 Update onward.

Have a great day!

 

[Cymsdale]

Hi there Cymsdale!

Let me shed some light on that: Cossacks won't be free in the future and you will still be able to play this specific DLC - only the Estates feature will be available to all from the 1.26 Update onward.

Have a great day!

I'm aware, I was talking about the estate feature specifically.

 

[Vnixned2]

Yes, though Cossacks will only breakaway from Steppe provinces so you would have to do it with Dhimmi estate.

now I suddenly understand why in one of my games where the AI did a re-reconsquita and subsequently created a weird new state and a weird name. Was fun to see happening