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EU4 - Development Diary -22nd of May 2018

Good day all! Today the team is all back and hard at work following an exhausting yet wonderful PDXCon. Thanks to everyone out there who contributed to its success by your presence. With our upcoming expansion now announced we return to talk in detail about the features and changes coming in Dharma.

Today we turn our attention to the much-teased Estates. To set the context for our changes I'm first going to outline the logic that lead our infinite wisdom to make these changes. Estates were introduced as a feature in The Cossacks DLC and while they were intended to be an interesting mechanic aimed to deepening the internal politics of your realm, they fell short in a number of ways. There were very few types of Estates, leading to a lack of immersion when you were dealing with the same groups when playing as either France or Bengal. Additionally, they ended up posing as a nuisance in many areas of the game. Their land demands would often feel a burden and a chore for a player, especially after finishing up a hard-won war. We also found that their disasters ticking up at 80% felt rather counter-intuitive. 79% was absolutely safe but 81% is danger zone? Additionally, with the feature being a paid part of The Cossacks, we were in a tricky situation with what to do with it.

As of the 1.26 Update, Estates shall be a free feature. This means that regardless if you own every expansion and immersion pack or if you have the base game and nothing more, you will have your estates in your nation, free to interact with, assign land to, reap rewards from and/or gain disfavour with and face internal strife. Coupled with this are some quality of life changes for Estates: No longer shall they demand a minimum amount of territory from your nation, leaving you free to choose if you want to indulge your various interest groups for their powerful support or shun them and forego the risks of them seizing power for themselves. Additionally, the aforementioned risk of disaster striking from overly powerful estates shall tick up when their influence is at 100% rather than the previous 80%

We are also free to further work upon the Estates system, which leads me nicely to the New Estates for India.

Indian nations will now have access to brand new Estates for the different Castes in the subcontinent. The following are available to nations in the subcontinent and largely replace the existing Estate types (merchant guilds, Clergy, Nobility) and are exclusive for owners of Dharma.

eu4_461.png


Marathas
While originally a term applied to all Marathi-speaking peoples, the Marathas have defined themselves as a caste of warriors. The Marathas are found both in their native home of Maharashtra and beyond, seeking opportunities for distinguished military service.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of culture group Dravidian, Western Aryan but not Rajput or Malvi culture.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally, Marathas impact on religious conversion chance while globally they impact on cavalry combat ability and army tradition

Interactions:
  • Recruit Advisor
    • Commandant, Half Price, Hindu Faith, Marathi Culture, Gives 15% Influence
    • Requires 40% Influence
  • Recruit from the Marathi
    • Give Manpower that increases with influence, costs 15 loyalty
    • Requires 30 loyalty, 40 influence
  • Benign Neglect of Marathi
    • Give loyalty and influence, increase autonomy in assigned provinces.
      • Give 25% manpower modifier in provinces
    • Requires 40 influence
  • Demand MIL Support
    • Gives Military power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
  • Promote Maratha Nobility
    • Gives 10 Influence and 15 Loyalty
Brahmins
The Brahmins are the priestly caste of Hinduism. They are the keepers of ceremonies and scriptures, as few non-Brahmins are educated in Sanskrit literature. They command great respect from Hindus and non-Hindus alike, and sometimes take roles in government.

Available to all Hindu and Muslim nations in the Indian Tech Group.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Brahmins affect unrest and institution spread, while globally they affect stability cost, devotion and tax.

Interactions:

  • Demand ADM Support
    • Gives Administrative power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
  • Seek Support of Brahmins
    • Gives 15 loyalty, 10 influence for 5 prestige and 5 legitimacy
  • Switch Hindu Deity (Hindu only)
    • Let you switch your hindu deity before your ruler dies.
    • Requires 40 loyalty, 40 influence
  • Seek Legitimacy (Muslim only)
    • Increase tolerance of heathens and religious unity for influence
    • Requires 40 Loyalty, 20 influence
  • Recruit Theologian
    • Gain Half price Theologian Advisor, Hindu faith for 15 Influence
    • Requires 40 Influence
  • Make Generous Donation
    • Pay money to gain 15 loyalty


Vaishyas
In Vedic scripture, the Vaishya caste are laborers and agriculturalists of relatively low status. They have since branched out into more lucrative professions; merchants, craftsmen, men of money, they are the lifeblood of Indian commerce.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group Hindu nations.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Vaishyas impact on development cost and trade value, while globally they affect production efficiency and advisor cost

Interactions:

  • Demand DIP support
    • Gives Diplomatic power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
  • Recruit Minter
    • Give Hindu Master of Mint, Half Price for 15 Influence
    • Requires 40 Influence
  • Draft Ships For War
    • Gives Heavy Ships for 15 loyalty
    • Requires 30 loyalty, 40 influence
  • Limited War Support
    • Trigger War Taxes for 15 influence
    • Cooldown of 20 years, requires 30 loyalty
  • Ask for Contributions
    • Gain money for 10 loyalty
    • Needs 30 Loyalty

Rajput
The Rajputs are an ancient caste of honorable warriors and proud nobles. While the rugged land of Rajasthan is the heart of their power, Rajput nobility can be found throughout northern India and many great Rajas claim Rajput descent.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of culture group Hindustani, Eastern Aryan, Central Indian and Rajasthani or Malvi culture.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally Rajputs affect manpower and defensiveness while globally they impact on manpower regain and fort maintenance costs.

Interactions:

  • Spawn Rajput Regiments
    • Capped by amount of provinces given to Rajput
      • Have -25% Drill Decay, 5% Discipline modifier
      • Can’t have more regiments of Rajput than you have provinces assigned to them
    • Costs 15 Loyalty and 5 Influence
    • Requires 50 loyalty and 40 influence
  • Recruit Rajput General
    • Should spawn a General with +1 Fire base for 20 Influence
      • Takes Rajput name from the Rajasthani culture
    • Requires 30 Loyalty, 40 Influence
  • Promote Purbias
    • Apply Rajput Regiment Only Modifier
      • Give 10% Land Fire Damage, 5% Discipline
    • Costs money and gives Autonomy to provinces
  • Exempt Officers from Jaziya (muslim only)
    • Increase Loyalty by 15 for money
    • Requires 20 Influence
  • Promote Rajput Nobility
    • Give 15 Loyalty and 10 Influence for 5 Prestige
  • Demand MIL Support
    • Gives Military power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
Jain Community
Jainism is no longer a dominant or politically favored faith in India, but the Jains are far from irrelevant. They have found a niche in moneylending and bureaucracy that makes them an asset to any state that offers them patronage.

Available to all nations in the Indian Tech Group of Hindu faith or replaces the Burgher Estate for Indian Muslims.
Depending on influence and loyalty, locally the Jains affect state maintenance, manpower and tax, while globally they impact on interest rates, construction costs and construction speed.

Interactions:

  • Loan Interaction
    • Create a Jain earmarked loan that has reduced -0.5/-1.0 interest depending on influence. It will remain at that fixed interest until paid off regardless of the nation's interest rate.
    • +10 influence
  • Patronize Jain Families
    • Increase loyalty with 15 and influence with 10.
    • Cost 5 prestige
  • Commission Jain Scripture
    • Increase 15 Loyalty, costs money
    • Requires 30 Influence
  • Build Jain Temple (once per 20 years)
    • Get 10% development cost and one extra base tax in random Jain assigned province
    • Gives +15 Influence
    • Requires 40 Influence
  • Investigate Corruption
    • Lose 2 Corruption, gives 10 Influence
    • Needs 60 Influence, 40 Loyalty
  • Demand DIP support (If Muslim)
    • Gives Diplomatic power based on influence, costs 20 loyalty
    • Requires 30 Loyalty and 25 Influence
Quite the impact for the subcontinent, but where does that leave owners of The Cossacks? Cossack owners will still exclusively have access to the titular Cossack estate type, as well as the Dhimmis and Tribes. We have also decided that The Cossacks owners will, with the 1.26 Update, also get the new feature to Play as breakaway Cossack Nations.

eu4_459.png


When the Cossacks disaster is triggered, you will have the option to play as said Cossack nation. You will be given the unique Power Structure reform Sich Rada granting tremendous cavalry bonuses, while having access to your own Government Interactions:

  • Adm: Receive Fleeing Serfs
    • Get Random development in a province of a culture/religion that is repressed by another nation.
      • Repressed culture means it is not primary or accepted.
      • Repressed religion means it is not the religion of that nation.
  • DIP: Organize Raiding Parties
    • +1 Hostile Attrition
    • +10% Movement Speed
  • Mil: Raise Cossack Host
    • Spawn Cossack units like the Cossack Estate interaction.
eu4_460.png


To recap

  • The Estates System is now free to all players as of the 1.26 update
  • Dharma Owners will gain access to the new Indian Caste estates
  • Owners of The Cossacks will have access to the Tribes, Dhimmi and Cossack estate types, while also gaining the new Breakaway Cossack Government to play as.

That's quite the lot for today, hopefully it makes up for the scandalously late dev diary courtesy of the exciting yet exhausting weekend of PDXCon2018. Next week, hmm, how about we take a look at how we're furthering our content for the Mission Trees introduced in Rule Britannia? Sounds great, see you then!
 
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Their land demands would often feel a burden and a chore for a player, especially after finishing up a hard-won war.
Will overextension be removed? Isn't coring a chore for a player? What with bb?
Why conquest supposed to be without risks?
I was hoping that you will make higher land demand for big countries and now i read it will be removed. That made me really sad.

We also found that their disasters ticking up at 80% felt rather counter-intuitive. 79% was absolutely safe but 81% is danger zone?
So where is the risk? Where is the danger? Where is the fun?
Maybe You should scale it according to loyalty. Higher loyalty = higher disaster danger zone?

Managing estates was one of my favourite thing in EU4, that was somehow challenging (especially with 4th estate like cossacks), interesting to make a choice if i should risk clicking another buttons, calculating if i should stay with high loyalty or not.
Now it seems it will be another "click to get bonus" button, no risk, no consequences, no emotions, no fun at all. :(

Keep good work and please think about it once again. Thanks for not being afraid of difficult decisions in development, please leave a little bit of it for us in your grate games. ;)
 
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@DDRJake @Groogy Really liking the changes coming with Dharma so far looks like it is going to be a great, and much needed, DLC. I do have a question though regarding the new estate mechanics, specifically about not needing to give provinces to forego the risk of the estates seizing power and this interaction with certain estate events. I've seen events where " 'province name' falls under the control of 'estate' " and similar events like this where a province switches from one estate or another, I believe. How will these events be affected if I choose to not give any provinces to estates? Will these events have new firing conditions?

Thankfully, the fact that they dont demabd a minimum development thakfully doesnt mean that they will never hold land again. You will have to give it to them if you want certain bonuses and indeed once in a while they might as for it. But all those events ive seen give you the option to not accept their request for a loyalty hit.
 
Not loss aversion again, look all this Pseudopsychology got to go, not everything can be handled with bonuses. There needs to be risks, there need to be setbacks, or all the excitement goes away.
Next you'll tell us players can't lose provinces in wars they lose because of loss aversion.

The only setback this dev team seems to want for their game is the chance (very tiny chance given the huge amount of bonuses they keep piling with o drawback) of losing a war and some provinces. Which rarely happens in singleplayer unless you play an OPM. This means two things: They are designing the game for multiplayer to become some kind of eSport like Age Of Empires or LoL, and as a result the only real challenge the game has in SP is playing an OP, a challenge that only lasts until you get to 150-250 development. Even less in case of big trade income.

This makes me actually really sad. Because you have to go to Victoria or CK2 for a realistic and enjoyable challenge...and next year I:Rome. Which is really sad when as I did, came to EU precisely fleeing from games like EU4 today, which was Civ3 and 4 back in the day. Now Civ 6 is more challenging and deep probably than eu4 which is very sad IMHO.
 
Wait wait wait... Why are you making Estates easier and more simplified instead of more complex and dynamic like we all just clamored for two months ago?
Loss Aversion.... Wouldn't want estates to actually do what they were meant to and represent internal dangers in large realms in order to keep the challenge up 100 years into the game when really the only challenge otherwise is "Can is conquer the world before the clock runs out".

So in the end it comes down to if the time it takes for loyality to tick from 0 to 40 (or 10 to 40 when you save the +loyality click for after the revoke) is worth the benefit of not spending autonomy for them and always getting the max mana from clicks.

What exactly was the design decision to "defang" as someone put it estates so much?

And how will estate content look in the future? An actual rework or just paid exclusive estates for whatever region you focus on?
Again loss aversion.

Maybe estates are too easy to control? When I play a super power I rarely need their help so there is no risk to facing their rage, I think these estates should be a bigger problem for these super powers.
Yeah that's the basic idea that estates should be a way to keep the difficulty up for large realms.
More and more do I think that we need a new "No Pussypants Mode" for numerous things.
Seconded so seconded.
I thought playing without ironman was pussypants mode ;)
In a way yes, all loss aversion could be overcome with savescumming so these "fixes" were unessecery but since tey are "fixing" the game anyway it would be nice to have a way to play without the train wheels on.
Really, you missed the opportunity to make game harder and more compelling. I still hope that you will rebalance estate, at least as cautious as when you rebalance money for early game.
Yeah lets hope.
Reading this makes me wonder, if there'll be a jewish estate for Europe.
No European estates are all land holding estates. It makes no sense that they should be given provinces, and also how would they be diffrent than the burgers? That said some jewish event linked to the burgers would be nice.
How many breakaway Cossack nations are there ? or is there just one ?
as many as there are areas with steppe provinces in them in the old world.
Please add Jainism as a Religion :/
Judaism and Zoroastrianism were much smaller and less influential religions and they are in the game, Judaism was even in the game before any provinces were of that Religion.
You could make it Nation Designer only like Norse, pretty please? This is the perfect time to do so :(
I see no reason not to add it to the nation designer.
Can we have an option to change flag when creating a Cossack state? It does break immersion to have some religious symbol or contrasting colours on it.
Yeah this really should be a thing. Random flags are often really really bad.
You made estates free ...
in order to package them separately and sell them at $9.99 apiece?

-_-
It's that or they never touch the mechanic again.

I'm from Ukraine and I don't really care about new Dharma features. But, boy, you've delivered a huge treat for all Ukrainians with that Cossacks government type!
You don't have to be from somewhere to play it. I am for an example not Ukrainian but really excited to play another game as Zaporozhye now. Then again Mughals would be interesting too.

The only setback this dev team seems to want for their game is the chance (very tiny chance given the huge amount of bonuses they keep piling with o drawback) of losing a war and some provinces. Which rarely happens in singleplayer unless you play an OPM. This means two things: They are designing the game for multiplayer to become some kind of eSport like Age Of Empires or LoL, and as a result the only real challenge the game has in SP is playing an OP, a challenge that only lasts until you get to 150-250 development. Even less in case of big trade income.

This makes me actually really sad. Because you have to go to Victoria or CK2 for a realistic and enjoyable challenge...and next year I:Rome. Which is really sad when as I did, came to EU precisely fleeing from games like EU4 today, which was Civ3 and 4 back in the day. Now Civ 6 is more challenging and deep probably than eu4 which is very sad IMHO.
Yeah I am a bit tired of single player immersion always getting screwed over for competitive multiplayer all the time.
 
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As of the 1.26 Update, Estates shall be a free feature. This means that regardless if you own every expansion and immersion pack or if you have the base game and nothing more, you will have your estates in your nation, free to interact with, assign land to, reap rewards from and/or gain disfavour with and face internal strife.

Please, no! Those pestilential estates are why I turn off the Cossacks DLC and making this a required feature of every game from this point onwards means that I at least will not be able to buy any further DLCs as I'll be playing off the copy of my game on my hard drive.
 
Awesome stuff, personally I play a lot of India games and this will add alot. I am curious though, for those of you that don't, why not? India is a fun place imo.

On a side note, if Taungu does NOT get a mission tree........
 
So wait, if the hetmanate nation forms Poland, do they lose their sweet government bonuses? If not, i'm sensing a beautiful run idea.
And here I hoped that I might try that before other people realized.

Seriously though, since forming Poland doesn't change the government type it shouldn't be an issue. (Inb4 Paradox patches it to kill the idea)
 
Please, no! Those pestilential estates are why I turn off the Cossacks DLC and making this a required feature of every game from this point onwards means that I at least will not be able to buy any further DLCs as I'll be playing off the copy of my game on my hard drive.
Or you could just get the "No estates" mod that will likely be out two days after the patch.
 
My only problem with the changes to estates is one of the few "perks" for certain governments was having low land requirements for estates will those government types get buffs to make up for that?
 
I like that the Estates are being made free. I don't think they should be something you can choose to engage with, though. MEIOU and Taxes has a better approach, where Estates naturally control certain regions of your empire, and you have to work around them. I feel like something similar would be better for the main game, like your types of Development and Buildings determining which Estates hold what land.
 
Estates are the one aspect of EU I could never get behind. It always felt like a drag to have to deal with them. I usually played with that DLC turned off. I hope the loosening of the mechanic makes it easier to ignore if there's no setting to turn it off.
 
Before the change we had 79% safe, 80% dangerous, 100% more dangerous (faster ticks).

Now we have 99% save, 100% dangerous.

How is this an improvement when it comes to weird binary threat levels :)? Or did I miss something?


Other than that, this sounds pretty awesome. This and the new mission system are great expamples of how to do DLC right. Add a generic system for everyone, while giving yourself oportunities to sell us specialized options for however many years you want. I really like it :)

That's what I was thinking too. 'We replaced one arbitrary level with another arbitrary level!'...Uhhhh...what?
 
No European estates are all land holding estates. It makes no sense that they should be given provinces, and also how would they be diffrent than the burgers? That said some jewish event linked to the burgers would be nice.
Goddammit, that was a joke. :D
 
This means we can no longer freely disable estates...oh dear lord no.
 
This means we can no longer freely disable estates...oh dear lord no.
You don't need to they have made it so that there is no minimum land holding which means you can just ignore the estates.

So since some people didn't like estates they essentially removed them from the game, thank you so much people who complained.
 
And Cossacks has now become one of the worst DLC's avaliable; only adding a few estates and a mechanic that effectively gimps Hordes by putting them on a clock.

But; for the long-term health of the game, I guess it's good.

But seriously; Cossacks should have it's price lowered now. The Estates feature itself was a massive selling point of the expansion; and together with the various Horde nerfs post-release [Which basically makes another feature; Razing; pointless] it's lost a significant amount of content.
 
Is it me or when PDX adds a new feature to a specific nation, they make it OP or more viable? I mean the Indian estates make the regular estates completely trash...