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EU4 - Development Diary - 23rd of October 2018

Hello! We’ll finally reveal some features of the upcoming Immersion Pack coming with the 1.28 patch. However I need to warn you: HEAVY USAGE OF CODER ART INCOMING!

Our artists nor me have had time to get our hands on the new features yet to make sure the interface is up to par for user usage. So everything is just how the programmer left it. Terrifying thought.

We’ll start with a feature only available to the Catholic Iberians. Establishing Holy Orders. Keep in mind numbers are as usual up for tweakage!

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These are inspired by Jesuit Reductions in the new world but an Iberian nation can put them anywhere as long as the nation own the entire state and that it is fully cored and stated. The available orders are: The Society of Jesus, The Order of Preachers and The Order of Saint Francis.

When an order is selected for a state these following effects are applied to all provinces in that state.
  • Jesuit Order
    • +1 Tax Development
    • 1.5% Local missionary strength
    • -10% Local Build Cost
  • Dominican Order
    • +1 Production Development
    • Removes slaves if trade goods and replace it with something else
    • -30% Culture Conversion Cost
  • Franciscan Order
    • +1 Manpower Development
    • -3 Local Unrest
    • -0.05 Local Monthly Devastation
Each of these costs 50 monarch power to put in place, 50 of the type that order represents. Administrative for Jesuits, Diplomatic for Dominican and Military for Franciscan. As an overlord of a colonial nation you can still place these in their land. The AI will know if a player is involved and restrain itself from placing these orders themselves letting the player optimize their usage.

For the few that manages to recreate the Cremé Pheonix, an Andalusian Muslim, we'll see what we can do for you ;)



Next Feature is one for every colonizer which we have done together with trying to improve the Colonial Diversity, to try and prevent the Colonial AI to spend so much dip points on purging away cultures. Instead allowing the Americas to become the melting pot of cultures it was. Also yet again I warn you that everything you see is in a state of work in progress.

upload_2018-10-23_9-16-44.png


With Expulsion of Minorities feature you can now tell those damned Puritans in East Anglia to head off to Plymouth Harbor and get on the Mayflower.

Using this costs you diplomatic points akin to how much it would take to culture convert in that province, but upon colony completion it both converts the religion and culture of the province while making the colony have the old religion and culture of home. Also upon completion you get some extra development in the finished colony based on how big the home province were for the minority you sent to live in the colony.

Besides the Culture conversion cost modifier reducing the cost to do this action, in Exploration ideas there is now an idea that will also reduce this cost if you own the Immersion Pack.



Now I’m going to hand it over to our beta who have helped us out with the map in this iteration and helped us overhaul the Spanish Main.

Hello, I’m Evie. You may remember me (as GuillaumeHJ) from old Dev Diary classics like “How to add provinces to Western Africa without getting bored” and “There’s no such thing as too many provinces in North America”. For those of you who joined us since Art of War: nice to meet you.

As you can probably gather, I’m here to talk to you about more map changes. After all, it’s one thing to add provinces to Spain, but much of Spanish history in the Europa Universalis timeline happened outside Spain, in the part of the world that would receive the apt name of “Spanish Main.”

Stretching from the coast of Texas all the way to the mouth of the Orinoco, across the Caribbeans, and back into Florida, the Spanish Main was the heart of the Spanish colonial empire, where the great Treasure Fleets sailed to gather the wealth of the New World. As a result, the “Spain” update also includes extensive additions to the region.

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Map-wise, the changes are extensive – upwards of eighty new provinces and twenty new tags in Mesoamerica, Central America, the Southwestern United States, the Caribbeans, Florida, Colombia and Venezuela. But Cuba and Hispaniola are now up to nine provinces. Colombia and Venezuela get a plethora of new provinces as well along the coast, bringing them much closer to the density found in Central America. The lion’s share, of course, goes to Mexico, especially the heart of Mesoamerica.

upload_2018-10-23_9-27-37.png


The most important (and by far the most requested) of those provinces are, without a shadow of a doubt, the two we split off from the original Mexico province, representing Texcoco and Tlacopan, the two cities that (along with Mexico-Tenochtitlan) formed the Aztec Triple Alliance. Reducing the Valley of Mexico and the Aztec power base to a single province always felt wrong, so when the opportunity came to update the region’s map with smaller provinces, adding these two was the very first item on the list of changes that needed to happen.

More than new provinces, though, the heart of the update is the new tags. Nine in Mesoamerica proper, six in the Mayan regions, six in the deserts around the US/Mexico border, and one each in Central America and Colombia bring a great deal of depth to the region. Who are they? Read on to find out.

upload_2018-10-23_9-27-56.png


Mesoamerica

Northwestern Mesoamerica, beyond Colima and the Tarascans, is often thought of as a void, but actually it was a Greece-like patchwork of cities. Representing them all is beyond the scope of this patch, but we’ve added two of the more significant local powers, Tonala and Xalisco, to bring relief to the area.

At the northern edge of Mesoamerica lived a plethora of people that the Aztecs collectively called the Chichimeca (roughly compared with the Greek “Barbarian”). Though they didn’t have the great cities of Mesoamerica proper, they played a fundamental part in regional history, and provided formidable resistance to Spanish expansion for half a century. For them, we’ve added three tags: Otomi and Guarames are two of the more significant people, while Chichimeca covers a variety of smaller groups.

Near the Chichimecan, we find a historical oddity: a Mayan group that wandered far from Yucatan and Central America, to the opposite end of Mesoamerica, the Huastec people.

Closer to the Aztecs, a number of additional states represent various regional powers of some note. To the south, Coixtlahuaca, a mixtec kingdom, fell early when their king defied the Aztecs. To the south-east, Teotitlan became a loyal ally of the empire. To the west, meanwhile, Matlatzinca served as a buffer between Aztecs and Tarascans - until the Aztec invaded it, precipitating war with their powerful rivals.

The South: Mayans, Central America and Colombia.

Further south, the Yucatan peninsula was home to about sixteen Mayan polities in this timeline. Having them all would, again, be impossible, but instead of just having the two rival dynasties of Cocomes and Xiu (whose rivalry dominated Mayan politics in the era), we’ve added two of the better known late post-classic city-states, in the form of Can Pech (Campeche) and Chactemal (Chetumal).

In south-eastern Mexico, a pair of additional Mayan tags add depths to the Tabasco and Chiapas regions. In the former, they’re the Yokotan (or Chontales), who claim descent from the ancient Olmec civilization. In the later, the Tzotzil, one of the more significant local group, serve a similar role.

In Honduras and Guatemala, the Kiche kingdom no longer can afford to get complacent – their perennial rivals (and erstwhile vassals), the Kaqchikel, are now in the game plotting to gain the upper hand, while further east, the Chorti people could also turn into quite the threat.

In Colombia, the Tairona, sister people to the Muisca (who are already in) form a new addition at the northern edge of the country, where the last of the Andes come to die in the Atlantic.

Last, but not least, we have our first non-Mayan Central America tag, based in the coastal jungles of Nicaragua: the Miskito people, who remained independent of Spain long enough to become a British protectorate instead.

The North: Pueblos and Natives.


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To the north, we find ourselves drawn to the upper end of the Rio Grande valley. There, the old Pueblo tag has been split in three to represent the various groups that together formed the Puebloan people. In addition to the old Pueblo tag (now limited to the Rio Grande valley itself), we now have the Keres tag (covering famous pueblos like Acoma and Zia, to the west of the Rio Grande), and the Zuni one, near the New Mexico/Arizona border.

Beyond the Rio Grande valley, our additions take the form of Native American tags. Adding depths to the Apachean people on top of the already-present Navajo and Apache tags, we find the Lipan and Mescalero ready to make trouble for colonizers in New Mexico and Texas, where they were a formidable obstacle to the Spanish historically. Further west, in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, California finally get representation of its native people in the form of the Yokuts. Finally, in the deserts of north-western Mexico, the Yaqui people, who resisted Spanish then Mexican dominion into the twentieth century, join the fray.

Together, all these additions bring a lot more depth to the areas of the map that ended up being conquered by Spain.


Thanks Evie! Next week I'll be back to talk about more features, one of which that Sweden had quite an excellence of building ....
 
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Disclaimer; I don't know anything about holy orders apart from what i've read in this thread. As far as i understand, this thing was exclusive for Catholic countries IRL. However who regularly apply(!) these orders were Iberian Catholics, Spain and Portugal. Thus holy orders -with their bonuses- in EU4 is exclusive for Iberian Catholics.

But isn't this a game for alternative history? Isn't the reason for holy orders mostly used by Iberian Catholics Spain and Portugal because they are the colonial superpowers of the era? So let's say a game with a dominant France (especially in Americas) or an early Italian Colonial Empire(both Catholic ofc) for instance did happen then wouldn't it make sense for them to use holy orders like Iberians in history? I am just trying to ask some simple questions as an ignorant of topic.
 
I like the idea of North America being more of a melting pot Hopefully we'll be able to choose our Colonial State's policy on assimilation, so things like the Quebec Act can occur in game
 
it's only second DD but for now it seems like mare nostrum, nothing really special. And i don't like jesuits etc only for iberian, i mean orders had big impact on all Christianity (counter-reformation, and catholicism is this one thing in this IP that should be totally reworked (and i hope it will be), and by reworking i don't mean unnecessary nerf for Pope.
Good mechanics change would be if this religion don't favor only papal controller, but atleast some more influencial countries, this would justify reformation for others, i see this much better solution than just making catholics bad to motivate into protestant or reformed
 
This has been pointed out before, but let me give my opinion. The holy orders as a feature only for the Iberians is not really an accurate representation of history and for me generalizes too much an already complex history.

Let me point out very very short for the Jesuits. The societas Iesu was patronized by the Portuguese kings (from 1580 Philips II of Spain), but acted much more independently (though, in theory, they answered the orders of the pope). Also, the Jesuit order can be seen as the/one of the first global enterprises, not only having provinces (aka their administrative division of the missions) in Iberia, the Spanish Low Countries (these were very successful), the HRE and even in Poland, but also missions in the Americas and Asia. To achieve this feat the use of correspondence to inform colleagues was very important. And it also served as propaganda to the European public to get funds, men and materials for the overseas missions, and to justify their actions, as can be seen with the annual letters of Japan and the Jesuit strategy of accommodation (also in China, followed later by the Rites controversy). Not to forget, the Jesuits understood the importance of education for their members, the use of the printing press (they had one in Nagasaki in the 1590s and 1600s) and the good relations with the nobility (like Alessandro Valignano). Last, but not least, the members of the society of Jesus came fro mall over Europe and all contributed to the cause. For the Japanese mission most were Portuguese or Italian, but for China two key actors were from the Southern Netherlands, Nicolas Trigault and Ferdinand Verbiest.

Let me add some works for those who like to read more about it: Peter Clossey's Salvation and globalization in the early Jesuit missions (he gives information about Europe too, which helps to connect with America and Asia); John W. O'Malley (ed.) The Jesuits: Cultures, Sciences, and the Arts (standard work with many good articles, also O'Malley's The first Jesuits is an important one). More general and a good introdcution: Thomas Worcester (ed.) The Cambridge encyclopedia of the Jesuits.

I just saw that Afonso de Albuquerque already mentioned the global scale of the society of jesus with the video :eek:. His suggestions to rework the system are very interesting, but I do not completely agree with all of it (I'll answer this in his thread).

Another point I don't see reflected in this diary is the rivalry between Jesuit order on the hand, and the Iberian orders (dominicans, franciscans and augustinians) because of the 'nationalistic' rivalry between Portuguese and Spaniards. To me, that would also be interesting to add then, but maybe not really doable in the game.
 
Disclaimer; I don't know anything about holy orders apart from what i've read in this thread. As far as i understand, this thing was exclusive for Catholic countries IRL. However who regularly apply(!) these orders were Iberian Catholics, Spain and Portugal. Thus holy orders -with their bonuses- in EU4 is exclusive for Iberian Catholics.

But isn't this a game for alternative history? Isn't the reason for holy orders mostly used by Iberian Catholics Spain and Portugal because they are the colonial superpowers of the era? So let's say a game with a dominant France (especially in Americas) or an early Italian Colonial Empire(both Catholic ofc) for instance did happen then wouldn't it make sense for them to use holy orders like Iberians in history? I am just trying to ask some simple questions as an ignorant of topic.

Exactly, The French barely had an actual Colonial Presence in the new World. But even when they did the Jesuit Order went wherever they did. There is no reason to assume that should France, or Catholic England, or any other Catholic Country have a Spain-sized colonial presence, they would not have used these orders. Whether they liked it (France) or not (Portugal).

Plus by that logic, should coal have been restricted only to Great Britain in the Rule Britannia? After all they were the first and (for the most part) only country to rapidly industrialize during the EU4 time period.
 
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This has been pointed out before, but let me give my opinion. The holy orders as a feature only for the Iberians is not really an accurate representation of history and for me generalizes too much an already complex history.

Let me point out very very short for the Jesuits. The societas Iesu was patronized by the Portuguese kings (from 1580 Philips II of Spain), but acted much more independently (though, in theory, they answered the orders of the pope). Also, the Jesuit order can be seen as the/one of the first global enterprises, not only having provinces (aka their administrative division of the missions) in Iberia, the Spanish Low Countries (these were very successful), the HRE and even in Poland, but also missions in the Americas and Asia. To achieve this feat the use of correspondence to inform colleagues was very important. And it also served as propaganda to the European public to get funds, men and materials for the overseas missions, and to justify their actions, as can be seen with the annual letters of Japan and the Jesuit strategy of accommodation (also in China, followed later by the Rites controversy). Not to forget, the Jesuits understood the importance of education for their members, the use of the printing press (they had one in Nagasaki in the 1590s and 1600s) and the good relations with the nobility (like Alessandro Valignano). Last, but not least, the members of the society of Jesus came fro mall over Europe and all contributed to the cause. For the Japanese mission most were Portuguese or Italian, but for China two key actors were from the Southern Netherlands, Nicolas Trigault and Ferdinand Verbiest.

Let me add some works for those who like to read more about it: Peter Clossey's Salvation and globalization in the early Jesuit missions (he gives information about Europe too, which helps to connect with America and Asia); John W. O'Malley (ed.) The Jesuits: Cultures, Sciences, and the Arts (standard work with many good articles, also O'Malley's The first Jesuits is an important one). More general and a good introdcution: Thomas Worcester (ed.) The Cambridge encyclopedia of the Jesuits.

I just saw that Afonso de Albuquerque already mentioned the global scale of the society of jesus with the video :eek:. His suggestions to rework the system are very interesting, but I do not completely agree with all of it (I'll answer this in his thread).

Another point I don't see reflected in this diary is the rivalry between Jesuit order on the hand, and the Iberian orders (dominicans, franciscans and augustinians) because of the 'nationalistic' rivalry between Portuguese and Spaniards. To me, that would also be interesting to add then, but maybe not really doable in the game.

I really like the idea of the Jesuits and other orders being an agent of the Papal States in the game, but if nothing else, it seems like making them an estate like the cossacks would have been a better option then how they are being implemented.
 
Disclaimer; I don't know anything about holy orders apart from what i've read in this thread. As far as i understand, this thing was exclusive for Catholic countries IRL. However who regularly apply(!) these orders were Iberian Catholics, Spain and Portugal. Thus holy orders -with their bonuses- in EU4 is exclusive for Iberian Catholics.

But isn't this a game for alternative history? Isn't the reason for holy orders mostly used by Iberian Catholics Spain and Portugal because they are the colonial superpowers of the era? So let's say a game with a dominant France (especially in Americas) or an early Italian Colonial Empire(both Catholic ofc) for instance did happen then wouldn't it make sense for them to use holy orders like Iberians in history? I am just trying to ask some simple questions as an ignorant of topic.
This has been pointed out before, but let me give my opinion. The holy orders as a feature only for the Iberians is not really an accurate representation of history and for me generalizes too much an already complex history.

My guess is that future updates will probably add unique orders for other catholic countries rather than all of them using the same ones.
 
YES!!!:D

This is awesome. I did not expect to have these additions just now for the next DLC, but this is so great . The irony is that I just released my modest changes to Mesoamerica in my MOD less that a week ago .

Overall Im pretty pleased with the additions, but of course there is always a BUT (if not ask to the fans working on Spain and Poland details :p).
In Mesoamerica the missed nations that for me are reasonable to add without be fussy are:
- Zoques (Mixezoque nation)
- Hopi (to have all the pueblo peoples)
- Lenca
- Chorotega (Mangue nation)

Also maybe some other of the tribal nations from Colombia.

Hope you could consider those 4 nations to make this PERFECT! :oops:
 
All the new stuff in the Americas is very awesome and the expelling of the minorities in for religion is actually very fascinating for colonies.

However, I am wondering if you could maybe expand on that to be able to relocate minority cultures or religions to different parts of your empire?

For example, say I am playing Ethiopia and I don't want to get rid of my Jewish minority. What if rather than just convert them or send them off to a different island, I wanted to move them to say some provinces I have in Yemen or even Palestine?
 
Maybe cut into absolutism or increase autonomy? At the very least add a few events like "Religious orders conflict with government events"
But for events you would need a trigger like the Rites controversy for the jesuits, no?. And what about the rivalry between jansenist and the jesuits?

I would suggest extra influence of the estates. For example, if you give them a state, these provinces are given to the clergy and give them extra influence. Events further influence (positive or negative) how the order interacts with the state. Maybe a new type of disaster then when their influence is too high and you can only end it by abolishing the order or have a sot of coup?
 
I hope there will be more major Events and gameplay features for Spain / Iberia, other than just boring buttons that you press once upon a time for instant bonus.

For example Habsburg Charles V as emperor of HRE (1500s) - with some trigger mechanics and possible wars over succession. For the first 100 years the entire Iberia is really boring and predictable, up until you colonize a lot, to say the truth.
 
But for events you would need a trigger like the Rites controversy for the jesuits, no?. And what about the rivalry between jansenist and the jesuits?

I would suggest extra influence of the estates. For example, if you give them a state, these provinces are given to the clergy and give them extra influence. Events further influence (positive or negative) how the order interacts with the state. Maybe a new type of disaster then when their influence is too high and you can only end it by abolishing the order or have a sot of coup?

It seems like it would have been better to just make all of these orders their own estates. Then let you grant colonial land to estates at the expense of liberty desire. Have them compete with the other estates for influence (including the clergy, who can represent the traditional diocesan bishops and priests who were often at odds with the orders)
 
I was hoping for a conversion rework. :(
 
i was against a Iberian only DLC, because i feel that the HRE-Italy is in need of an update.
But this looks great including the colonies, this will finaly bring me to play more in the NW, because i like to neglect america in current gameplays.
Good job PDX :)