• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of July 2018

Good morning all! What would Tuesday be without an EU4 dev diary? Tragic, I say, so here for the last of the Summer dev diaries while the bulk of the Swedes are on vacation, I bring to you a summary of balance changes coming in the 1.26 Mughal Update. This is not exhaustive (We'll post up the full changelog closer to release) and is about changes made to the game and its existing mechanics, rather than the new stuff we've added. We'll have another Dev Diary in the future to act as a "roundup" of new mechanics and how they work.

Estates:

As we have mentioned before, Estates now cause a disaster at 100% influence rather than 80%. They also no longer have a minimum requirement for land. In addition to this:

- Confiscating estate land now gives a +5 unrest modifier in the province for 15 years. This modifier goes away if you give the land to another estate.
- Confiscating estate land now adds 25 local autonomy in the province that the estate was previously in.
- Advisors generated by Estate interactions now scale in cost depending on estate influence.
- Influence from estate events generally increased.
- Cossack Estate now gains twice as much influence per development in granted provinces.
- The cap for how much development in granted provinces can increase influence is now 50% rather than 40% for all estates.

Trade Nodes:

- Bengal trade now flows into Doab, which in turn flows into Lahore (renamed from Kashmir) undoing the injustice to these nodes.
- General renaming and reshaping of Indian trade nodes (see screenshot)
- The Katsina Trade Node now connects to Ethiopia instead of Alexandria.
- The Ethiopia Trade node now also connects to Aden.
- Coromandel flows straight to the Cape

Trade n stuff.png


In general this means more Indian trade will be able to flow around Africa into Europe without needing massive amounts of control in Aden. Zanzibar isn't quite the slush fund it used to be, but remains lucrative.

Tributaries:

Far away tributaries with no expectation of help or feasible reason to be a subject was something we're looking to change with this update. As such, the AI is no longer interested in establishing new tributary relationships with nations who do not border them. This goes for both asking and receiving requests. Existing tributaries are fine, so Ayutthaya & Khmer won't suddenly want to abandon Ming in 1444.

Speaking of Ming, 1.26 may as well be renamed the Sukhothai update, as declaring an independence war no longer calls in your overlord's Tributary overlord. Sukhothai can now declare war against Ayutthaya without Chinese intervention.

Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Subjects:

In the interest in encouraging more indirect rule, holding a subject for a long time will gradually reduce their liberty desire. Subjects can now also gain trust with their overlord, instead of having it pinned at 50.
Force Limit Contribution from subjects now scales with the subject's own FL, minimum of +1 + 10% from vassals, +20% from marches.


End Game Tags:

Preventing weird country formations, like Ottomans to Byzantium or Minghals or England to Mughals to Shan to Mughals to Japan is something we're historically not very good at. It generally involves a lot of different file changes and something usually gets overlooked. In script as of 1.26 we now have a scope known as "End game tags" which will prevent most cases of such nations forming other nations (Holy Roman Empire, Rome and Papal States are so special they trump this list, eg: Byzantium can for Rome, Italy can form Holy Roman Empire...).

The current list is:

Mughals
Ottomans
Byzantium
Rome
Holy Roman Empire
Rum
Qing
Russia
Commonwealth
Japan
Yuan
Hindustan
Bharat
Arabia
Papal States
Spain
Great Britain
Italy
Germany
Ming

That's the bulkier of the balance changes. As usual, there will be more nuanced changes in the fine details to come along in the full Changelog, which we will be sharing closer to release.

We are well aware that balance changes can get people worked up and are seldom without contention. I have very fond memories of forums around the the 1.12 release. Remain civil when expressing your feelings over your favourite balance changes as, although I endeavour to explain why we make changes, there are as many opinions as eyeballs in the world. Thanks for your time.

And if Balance Changes are not your cup of tea, let's have a look at some of the other National Idea changes brought along in the 1.26 Update. We'll look over at the Bengal region, where there is now a distinction between The Bangal Sultinate, and the Bengali Minors in the area.

I love U.png


Bengal Sultanate ideas
start =
infantry_power = 0.1
global_manpower_modifier = 0.15

bonus
backrow_artillery_damage = 0.15


bng_combat_piracy =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"Pirates have infested the waters of the Bay of Bengal for too long. We must protect traders en route to our ports by discovering and eliminating pirate havens along the Arakan coast."

bng_habshi_generals =
army_tradition = 0.5

"Abyssinian slave-soldiers purchased in Arab markets play a significant role as elite infantry soldiers. Those that excel as leaders shall be given greater levels of command, while those who demonstrate exceptional loyalty shall make up the palace guard."

bng_clearing_the_delta =
development_cost = -0.1

"The Bengal Delta contains an immense expanse of potentially very profitable land that goes unexploited due to thick forestation. We must subsidize efforts to clear the forests to make way for new farmlands, cities, and trading posts."


bng_attract_sufis =
idea_cost = -0.1

"Sufis have long been innovators of Islamic thought as well as wise councilors. If we wish to be a leading voice in the future of the Islamic world, we must patronize Sufi lodges and convince the wisest among their order to settle in our domain."

bng_conquest_of_the_gangetic_plain =
leader_land_shock = 1

"To our west are the fertile and populated lands of the Indo-Gangetic Plain. The Sultans of Bengal have long coveted its great cities and vast wealth, but only now as a new and ambitious crop of generals rise to power is our ambition likely to become a reality. We must do all we can to ready our forces for the coming conquest."

bng_rupees =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"The lack of a widely adopted standardized currency is stunting the development of Indian commerce. As one of the foremost economic powers in the subcontinent, we are well placed to begin the minting of a new silver coinage with standard weights, which we shall call the rupee."

bng_bengali_industrialization =
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1

"Bengal is uniquely situated in India to begin a revolution unlike any seen before. We stand poised to exploit new developments in our already world-class textile and shipbuilding industries. Let us begin an industrial revolution!"


Bengali Minors ideas =
start =
merchants = 1
infantry_power = 0.1
}

bonus =
prestige = 1
}


hindu_sufi_syncretism =
religious_unity = 0.5

"Beyond the eastern frontiers of the Islamic world, came Sufi mystics to settle land grants or to commune with nature in Bengal, intermingling with the Hindu population. Cooperation led to extensive land reclamations in forested and marshy areas and helped to introduce new syncretic forms of music, painting, dancing and sculpture reflected in the temples and shrines constructed during this period."

ganges_brahmaputra_confluence =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"The mighty Ganges and Brahmaputra have traveled far to intermingle and spread out into the Bengal Delta, funneling trade and commerce in its wake. For thousands of years the area around the delta has been a natural place for the easy exchange of goods and ideas."

rice_fields =
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2

"We Bengalis are primarily rice eaters, and the rainfall and soil in the area lends itself to massive surplus rice production, with the mighty silt laden rivers and monsoon allowing for three separate growing and harvest seasons a year."

mustard_oil_ilish_mach =
war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10

"Wars may torch the granaries and markets. The weather may wither or crush the crops in the fields. Elephants and ants may try to eat what we have planted. Give us a little oil, however, and our fish-laden rivers will give us the food we Bengalis desire most!"

jute_production =
#production_efficiency = 0.1

"Native to our region, Jute is a long, soft, shiny vegetable fiber that can be spun into coarse, strong rope, matting or thread. In high demand for its resilience and relatively light weight, we can benefit from its cultivation and production."

opium_fields =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"What's that? People will give us gold and silver for our flowers!? The opium of our region is highly prized and easily grown, commanding twice the price of any other opium in the world. Let the trade begin!"

bengali_renaissance =
global_institution_spread = 0.1

"The Bengal Renaissance that took place in this region was a reaction to the encounter and impact of Europeans arriving for not only commerce, but for study, art and scholarship. The Bengal Renaissance blended together Hindu teachings from the past with Western education, politics and law, as well as a re-casting of Bengali culture. This led to a flourishing of the arts and sciences."

And if neither Balance changes nor National Ideas are your thing, well, swing by next week, where we'll talk about that new image you keep seeing in the buildings interface is. There are still a fair few dev diaries to come before Dharma is due to hit the shelves.
 

Attachments

  • Trade n stuff.png
    Trade n stuff.png
    3,9 MB · Views: 2.156
Last edited:
I don't really like the change. First, you guys reduced number of available states few patch ago, only to increase it again but now with penalty to corruption if you have more states than available states? Buffing playing "tall" but nerf people who prefer big name on the map? I don't think it really nice balance.
Second, Why you limit player option in choosing what kind of country they wanna play? Blocking off people for having fun? if I want to be Super space marine Yuan who have permanent claim on entire India and somehow able to summon Space Orc out of nowhere, why can I play as them? I don't really give ****** about realism, it's game afterall.
Tl;dr : Anti fun change, please reconsider

What is it with that many people disagreeing?! I agree with you. This update looks less and less promising. I was looking forward to this expansion, but not anymore. Might as well stick to 1.25 for a bit longer. Many achievements will be harder to complete. It will just become more frustrating. I know they are trying to make the game more realistic, but to be honest, the game is unrealistic to its core. You can't make a super accurate historical game in these times. Not with these mechanics and the awful AI. So why even try? They are making it less fun. That Game Tag change was the final drop. Why? Just why? I can't see the reason to change it. If someone can explain, please do, because I seriously don't get it. Good job Paradox... this wont make the more realistic, it will always be messy and that is what I like about the game.
 
What is it with that many people disagreeing?! I agree with you. This update looks less and less promising. I was looking forward to this expansion, but not anymore. Might as well stick to 1.25 for a bit longer. Many achievements will be harder to complete. It will just become more frustrating. I know they are trying to make the game more realistic, but to be honest, the game is unrealistic to its core. You can't make a super accurate historical game in these times. Not with these mechanics and the awful AI. So why even try? They are making it less fun. That Game Tag change was the final drop. Why? Just why? I can't see the reason to change it. If someone can explain, please do, because I seriously don't get it. Good job Paradox... this wont make the more realistic, it will always be messy and that is what I like about the game.
oHzQp9t.png
 
"Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these."

I guess One Faith will be even more impossible to do now. And Religious ideas will only be worth it for the casus belli.
 
Seriously, what were you thinking? It's one thing to provide constructive feedback, it's another to just post crap.
I'm thinking exactly what I said: Fire whoever is responsible for this no-more-missionaries idea being implemented. Because it's a terrible idea. If this gets implemented then it kills a core feature of the game. We players have to put up with a lot of nonsense from game developers these days but up till now PDX was doing alright. I didn't agree with all of their decisions but for the most part I was OK with what they were doing. And then they pulled this crap. I will not be buying more DLC from PDX if what has been outlined in the dev diary regarding missionaries comes to pass and I'm far from the only one who feels that way. If ever there was a reason to fire someone then alienating the paying customers surely is it.
 
Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

While, I'm OK with the changes made to missionary and cultural conversion mechanics for the territories, I would say still allow religious conversion in territories where the province culture are your own (particularly in provinces colonized where there were no natives thus your own culture becomes the province culture by default), just more difficult than in the States. I can't really see how the government would not attempt to re-convert their own fellows in overseas colonies back to the "correct" religion because of a random event and such that converts them to a heretic religion.

However, one other important consideration is the fact because Philippines historically were en-masse converted to Catholic yet it is currently NOT a colonial religion. How would you explain this without making them states which I would consider as proper only to the metropole? I would say maybe exempt charter company region from the restriction on religious conversion though British Raj never actually converted most of the India to their religion so I'm unsure how this would work. Maybe it could only be done in a charter company region where more than 90 percent of the provinces were previously not colonized (meaning empty provinces not owned or cored by a country)?
 
Im sorry but I think the whole territory thing is a bad idea. How are we supposed to do a 1 faith? You cant have all land as states and I don't know if there is enough adm power to core everything once, not to mention at some point you will have to un-core some states to just core and un-core something you want to convert. Why not just make it so that If you do convert in territories then all not your religion territories get a lot of unrest like and invasion on autonomous lands or something. Also if you cant convert in territories then shouldn't religious unity only be applied to states. This feels like an contrived restriction, and I believe there are better ways to make boobing harder. 1: The further the province is away from your capital the more expansive it is to core or something to do with distance, this should scale down as game goes on. 2: Balance of power, right now intervene in war is not used that much, give great powers a lot more reason to keep each other in check, if say one country become too big or hold too much of the wrong culture or religion then other nations should always be fearful. Maybe a great power can always interfere in a war if another great power is beating on a little guy.
Thank you
 
@DDRJake for those modders who might be interested in modifying this, are those new restrictions on converting culture in provinces done through scripted function? And will we get a new scripted function for converting religion in provinces?
 
How are we going to convert provinces now? i.e. One Faith?

We won't as you can see. Paradox seems to care more about "historical" stuff. Not about Ottomans having 20k from just two provinces. Or getting sieged by a siberian tribe that got access all the way to Italy. The actual stuff that matters, not what you think you want to be fixed in game

I'd like to ask everyone in here when was the last time paradox actually listened to the community and did something that MOST of us wanted (Not the "elite" 2% - youknow, the actual player base) The last time I can kind of remember something close enough was when after several months they realized that giving ming unlimited money + mercs was not a good idea after releasing Mandate of heaven. Forums are flooded with people saying that most of these changes just scream NO FUN ALLOWED and the response is just great "We knew that not everyone would like this"

Classic.
 
I'm thinking exactly what I said: Fire whoever is responsible for this no-more-missionaries idea being implemented. Because it's a terrible idea. If this gets implemented then it kills a core feature of the game. We players have to put up with a lot of nonsense from game developers these days but up till now PDX was doing alright. I didn't agree with all of their decisions but for the most part I was OK with what they were doing. And then they pulled this crap. I will not be buying more DLC from PDX if what has been outlined in the dev diary regarding missionaries comes to pass and I'm far from the only one who feels that way. If ever there was a reason to fire someone then alienating the paying customers surely is it.

I don't so much want to disagree with your post as I want to nuke it from orbit. Internet hate-mobs trying to get game devs fired for making design changes they don't agree with are a pox on modern gaming. Lots of people here are disagreeing with this change, as they are free to do. Many are making well-reasoned arguments and proposing alternative ways to dampen expansion in favor of development.

Everyone has their own idea of what they want the game to be, though it is ultimately the developer who decides what they want to see it become. This is not a cheeseburger they have to grill to your liking - this a piece of digital art that we have all been enjoying because those making it are generally smart, experienced people. Calling for them to lose their jobs because you don't like their vision for their own product is the epitomy of entitled internet stupidity.
 
Calling for them to lose their jobs because you don't like their vision for their own product is the epitomy of entitled internet stupidity.
Im not saying that people should get fired for making a game objectively worse, but...
Expecting people, especially those in important positions in bigger companies, to take responsibility for their decisions is neither stupid nor entitled.
The same kind of demand has been going around the WoW forums and there quite a few people agreed that its time for some people to f off.

At this point i really hope no one buys this next expansion just as i hope the subs in WoW hit rock bottom within the next month or two.
 
First, there is nothing objective about wanting to one faith the world and hating a change that would make this harder. That is very much subjective, based on how you personaly want to play the game and whether you want one faith nations to be the norm or not. This change will push me to use vassals more, so it does change the way i approach the game and will make me consider new strategies. Not necessarily bad, just different.

Second, voting with your wallet is totally fair. If the majority does it, I am sure the devs will take notice, figure out a better solution and patch it in. No bloodshed necesarry. However, for the vocal minority (as all of us on the forums are) to demand that heads must roll and an example made? Not so fair. A person will be unemployed and the next dev will think twice about making any meaningful change to the game for fear of the hate mob coming for his head.
 
there is nothing objective about wanting to one faith the world
There is objectivity in taking choice away from a part of the playerbase without adding anything in return or without oercompensating another part of the playbase.

As it stands, with the information that is currently confirmed this change will make OF harder, sure.
But it will also make it more tedious, as in, you can achieve the same goal as before just now with more imputs required.

And for:
This change will push me to use vassals more
Right now i cannot see how i could resonably justify using vassals even more than i already am.
And many people have been pushing away from that style of gameplay because it causes more frustration than it is worth the increase in efficiency.

making any meaningful change to the game
1. The way the game has worked for the last 5 years was totaly fine for some.
The fact that tall play sucks has little to nothing to do with the fact that conquest is the better option.
Making conquest worse and/or more mentaly taxing (and not in a good way) doenst suddenly make tall play exiting.
You simply made the game worse, objectively.

2. This missionary change doenst seem meaningful. I would go so far as to call it spiteful.

3. There are enough players with enough experience in the game, way more than any dev could ever hope to achieve, who'd be more than willing to sit down for discussion.
There has even been ample discussion in this very threat. But all we got from the dev side of things was the equivalent of a copy/paste reply on a service email.
 
Oh please. Every time any sort of restriction or hurdle is added to one tag, one faithing the entire map, there are endless complaints on the forum. This has been the fact since 1.0.

Having to state/unstate is a tax you pay, much like corruption for being over your territory limit (a new limit heralded as “an end to fun as we know it” just a couple of months ago).

By using vassals more, I did not mean as workaround to coring with dip indstead of adm. I meant as in keeping them around the whole game as subject states. With the new feature of loyalty growing in subjects over time, this should be much more feasible/rewarding.

Also, buffing tall play would not fix the fact that world conquest is far too easy. Sometimes you have to nerf things rather than powercreep everything else into infinity. I get that it sucks for the players who exclusively want to play this way - but calling for people to lose their jobs because of a nerf is unreasonable.
 
As Scandinavia or GB, now I could care less if I have Orkney. And as the Turk, I don't care about taking the Arabian dessert for nicer borders.
Personally, the that is one thing I do worry about. Small states probably won't pay for themselves, and I personally like to have little bases everywhere as Portugal, but if I understand this correctly, I will have to pay for each little outpost I have in Africa, the Indian Ocean, Indonesia etc. Maybe they should change it based on development, otherwise wars will be fought over you gets the burden of owning Orkney, Iceland, and other small states that are not worth anything, except maybe colonial range and such.
 
That is the consequence of the corruption for too many territories. In Africa and Asia you can still hold land via trade companies, as they do not count towards your territory limit.

But yes - the small states will become a burden once you have sufficiently many territories. Outside colonies/TCs the solution will to keep around vassals, who will now become very loyal if you set them up early.
 
I'm thinking exactly what I said: Fire whoever is responsible for this no-more-missionaries idea being implemented.
"Made a design change some players violently disagree with" is not legitimate grounds for dismissing a game designer.

Paradox is a Swedish company, and Swedish companies (like companies across Europe) have to have a legitimate reason to fire someone.
 
Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Damn, World Conquest will be harder ... from impossible to not even in your dreams...
 
Damn, World Conquest will be harder ... from impossible to not even in your dreams...
lolwut

I'd say "you must be new here" but I see you joined in 2013.