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EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of July 2018

Good morning all! What would Tuesday be without an EU4 dev diary? Tragic, I say, so here for the last of the Summer dev diaries while the bulk of the Swedes are on vacation, I bring to you a summary of balance changes coming in the 1.26 Mughal Update. This is not exhaustive (We'll post up the full changelog closer to release) and is about changes made to the game and its existing mechanics, rather than the new stuff we've added. We'll have another Dev Diary in the future to act as a "roundup" of new mechanics and how they work.

Estates:

As we have mentioned before, Estates now cause a disaster at 100% influence rather than 80%. They also no longer have a minimum requirement for land. In addition to this:

- Confiscating estate land now gives a +5 unrest modifier in the province for 15 years. This modifier goes away if you give the land to another estate.
- Confiscating estate land now adds 25 local autonomy in the province that the estate was previously in.
- Advisors generated by Estate interactions now scale in cost depending on estate influence.
- Influence from estate events generally increased.
- Cossack Estate now gains twice as much influence per development in granted provinces.
- The cap for how much development in granted provinces can increase influence is now 50% rather than 40% for all estates.

Trade Nodes:

- Bengal trade now flows into Doab, which in turn flows into Lahore (renamed from Kashmir) undoing the injustice to these nodes.
- General renaming and reshaping of Indian trade nodes (see screenshot)
- The Katsina Trade Node now connects to Ethiopia instead of Alexandria.
- The Ethiopia Trade node now also connects to Aden.
- Coromandel flows straight to the Cape

Trade n stuff.png


In general this means more Indian trade will be able to flow around Africa into Europe without needing massive amounts of control in Aden. Zanzibar isn't quite the slush fund it used to be, but remains lucrative.

Tributaries:

Far away tributaries with no expectation of help or feasible reason to be a subject was something we're looking to change with this update. As such, the AI is no longer interested in establishing new tributary relationships with nations who do not border them. This goes for both asking and receiving requests. Existing tributaries are fine, so Ayutthaya & Khmer won't suddenly want to abandon Ming in 1444.

Speaking of Ming, 1.26 may as well be renamed the Sukhothai update, as declaring an independence war no longer calls in your overlord's Tributary overlord. Sukhothai can now declare war against Ayutthaya without Chinese intervention.

Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Subjects:

In the interest in encouraging more indirect rule, holding a subject for a long time will gradually reduce their liberty desire. Subjects can now also gain trust with their overlord, instead of having it pinned at 50.
Force Limit Contribution from subjects now scales with the subject's own FL, minimum of +1 + 10% from vassals, +20% from marches.


End Game Tags:

Preventing weird country formations, like Ottomans to Byzantium or Minghals or England to Mughals to Shan to Mughals to Japan is something we're historically not very good at. It generally involves a lot of different file changes and something usually gets overlooked. In script as of 1.26 we now have a scope known as "End game tags" which will prevent most cases of such nations forming other nations (Holy Roman Empire, Rome and Papal States are so special they trump this list, eg: Byzantium can for Rome, Italy can form Holy Roman Empire...).

The current list is:

Mughals
Ottomans
Byzantium
Rome
Holy Roman Empire
Rum
Qing
Russia
Commonwealth
Japan
Yuan
Hindustan
Bharat
Arabia
Papal States
Spain
Great Britain
Italy
Germany
Ming

That's the bulkier of the balance changes. As usual, there will be more nuanced changes in the fine details to come along in the full Changelog, which we will be sharing closer to release.

We are well aware that balance changes can get people worked up and are seldom without contention. I have very fond memories of forums around the the 1.12 release. Remain civil when expressing your feelings over your favourite balance changes as, although I endeavour to explain why we make changes, there are as many opinions as eyeballs in the world. Thanks for your time.

And if Balance Changes are not your cup of tea, let's have a look at some of the other National Idea changes brought along in the 1.26 Update. We'll look over at the Bengal region, where there is now a distinction between The Bangal Sultinate, and the Bengali Minors in the area.

I love U.png


Bengal Sultanate ideas
start =
infantry_power = 0.1
global_manpower_modifier = 0.15

bonus
backrow_artillery_damage = 0.15


bng_combat_piracy =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"Pirates have infested the waters of the Bay of Bengal for too long. We must protect traders en route to our ports by discovering and eliminating pirate havens along the Arakan coast."

bng_habshi_generals =
army_tradition = 0.5

"Abyssinian slave-soldiers purchased in Arab markets play a significant role as elite infantry soldiers. Those that excel as leaders shall be given greater levels of command, while those who demonstrate exceptional loyalty shall make up the palace guard."

bng_clearing_the_delta =
development_cost = -0.1

"The Bengal Delta contains an immense expanse of potentially very profitable land that goes unexploited due to thick forestation. We must subsidize efforts to clear the forests to make way for new farmlands, cities, and trading posts."


bng_attract_sufis =
idea_cost = -0.1

"Sufis have long been innovators of Islamic thought as well as wise councilors. If we wish to be a leading voice in the future of the Islamic world, we must patronize Sufi lodges and convince the wisest among their order to settle in our domain."

bng_conquest_of_the_gangetic_plain =
leader_land_shock = 1

"To our west are the fertile and populated lands of the Indo-Gangetic Plain. The Sultans of Bengal have long coveted its great cities and vast wealth, but only now as a new and ambitious crop of generals rise to power is our ambition likely to become a reality. We must do all we can to ready our forces for the coming conquest."

bng_rupees =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"The lack of a widely adopted standardized currency is stunting the development of Indian commerce. As one of the foremost economic powers in the subcontinent, we are well placed to begin the minting of a new silver coinage with standard weights, which we shall call the rupee."

bng_bengali_industrialization =
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1

"Bengal is uniquely situated in India to begin a revolution unlike any seen before. We stand poised to exploit new developments in our already world-class textile and shipbuilding industries. Let us begin an industrial revolution!"


Bengali Minors ideas =
start =
merchants = 1
infantry_power = 0.1
}

bonus =
prestige = 1
}


hindu_sufi_syncretism =
religious_unity = 0.5

"Beyond the eastern frontiers of the Islamic world, came Sufi mystics to settle land grants or to commune with nature in Bengal, intermingling with the Hindu population. Cooperation led to extensive land reclamations in forested and marshy areas and helped to introduce new syncretic forms of music, painting, dancing and sculpture reflected in the temples and shrines constructed during this period."

ganges_brahmaputra_confluence =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"The mighty Ganges and Brahmaputra have traveled far to intermingle and spread out into the Bengal Delta, funneling trade and commerce in its wake. For thousands of years the area around the delta has been a natural place for the easy exchange of goods and ideas."

rice_fields =
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2

"We Bengalis are primarily rice eaters, and the rainfall and soil in the area lends itself to massive surplus rice production, with the mighty silt laden rivers and monsoon allowing for three separate growing and harvest seasons a year."

mustard_oil_ilish_mach =
war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10

"Wars may torch the granaries and markets. The weather may wither or crush the crops in the fields. Elephants and ants may try to eat what we have planted. Give us a little oil, however, and our fish-laden rivers will give us the food we Bengalis desire most!"

jute_production =
#production_efficiency = 0.1

"Native to our region, Jute is a long, soft, shiny vegetable fiber that can be spun into coarse, strong rope, matting or thread. In high demand for its resilience and relatively light weight, we can benefit from its cultivation and production."

opium_fields =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"What's that? People will give us gold and silver for our flowers!? The opium of our region is highly prized and easily grown, commanding twice the price of any other opium in the world. Let the trade begin!"

bengali_renaissance =
global_institution_spread = 0.1

"The Bengal Renaissance that took place in this region was a reaction to the encounter and impact of Europeans arriving for not only commerce, but for study, art and scholarship. The Bengal Renaissance blended together Hindu teachings from the past with Western education, politics and law, as well as a re-casting of Bengali culture. This led to a flourishing of the arts and sciences."

And if neither Balance changes nor National Ideas are your thing, well, swing by next week, where we'll talk about that new image you keep seeing in the buildings interface is. There are still a fair few dev diaries to come before Dharma is due to hit the shelves.
 

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I'm happy with most of it! A bit worried about the territories thing, that seems like a lot of corruption for blobbing, but guess we'll have to wait and see.
That subject interaction and the fact trade companies and colonial regions don't add to the corruption might be make England even better.
Also countries like Timmurid into Mughals where most of your early expansion is into trade company land seem to pretty much avoid the penalty, or countries that get empire rank early (ottos). While I can see it being rough for minor tags, where the state limit is a lot worse. Also did you increase the limit to states for merchant republics?

IDK seems the change is being made for nerfing big blobbing countries, while I think smaller countries will get more affected. And yeah, was hoping for a trade company nerf, but I guess since it is an Indian patch a we got a buff instead o_O

Timmy into Mughals are especially screwed by this change, this is because they won't be able to form the trade companies themself.
 
DDRJake said:
Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation.

"We heard people complain trade companies were OP so we drastically buffed them."

More directly, I don't understand why trade charter companies should be exempt from... a territorial administrative corruption rooted in overextension calculation.
 
"In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled."

That is a big buff where you wanted to look like you were nerving expansion. With all the debate going on, this was the best idea you guys came up with?

This and the TC changes are a huge buff to thoughtfully directed expansion. The territory corruption is a significant nerf to mindless blobbing. My first thought is that I like it. Won't stop WCs but it will mean that holding vast amounts of territories will be costly which makes sense.

Edit to note that I was presuming that the corruption would be possible to buy-down when I wrote this. It's since emerged that it will not be when combined with 100 OE.
 
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An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled.

Are you finally adressing blobbing? Wonderful!
Sadly I doubt this will do much in Eurasia since blobs are often loaded with money from Trade Nodes and such.
 
Sounds like this penalty would only come into play at the later stages of a world conquest, i.e. change nothing for most of the players most of the time.
That seems to be the overall goal, and, I mean, you can't exactly blame them.
WC has to still be possible, or they need to remove a lot of achievements, and find some way to make it worthwhile for players who still want that 3 Mountains prestige.
Ah, well, at least larger countries may actually start with all their land in states, now..
One change I think I'd like to see if Dhimmi given some buffs.

1. Dhimmi should ignore autonomy for production AND tax.
2. Dhimmi should get 2x influence from territory like Cossacks are getting.

Currently most (all?) players just ignore Dhimmi in their entirety outside of the Ottomans for janissaries, and flip their provinces to state culture right away. That feels off to me since throughout this time period the Muslims actually did little mass converting in India/Ottomans.
This.
I give them all the ottoman land in the north, and they barely have enough influence to actually raise their loyalty.
 
Doubling the base means going from 5 to 10 at start. It isn't an overall doubling. It still prevents you from having 80 territories in the 1500 when you can only support 15 states.

Hardly a realistic example. If you have even 20 territories in the 1500s you're certainly an empire and very likely completed Admin ideas, so your state limit is at least 10 (base) + 10 (empire) + 5 (admin finisher) + 3/6 (tech) + 1-5 (government) = 29-36.
 
Expansion:

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Subjects:

Force Limit Contribution from subjects now scales with the subject's own FL, minimum of +1 + 10% from vassals, +20% from marches.


Thank you! These are my favourite changes in the next patch aside from map and idea updates! =)

Do you have any tall mechanics in mind? :rolleyes:
 
Are there going to be ways to lose trust with your subjects and negative consequences for doing so?

No because you already lose liberty desire from actions that would do that which would hit you with a double whammy. The trust is to make it beneficial to keep a loyal marsh around for longer and letting it grow.
 
Hardly a realistic example. If you have even 20 territories in the 1500s you're certainly an empire and very likely completed Admin ideas, so your state limit is at least 10 (base) + 10 (empire) + 5 (admin finisher) + 3/6 (tech) + 1-5 (government) = 29-36.

KaiserJohan's Byzantium was 80 territories. Getting 80 territories early in the game especially in that part of the world is easy.
 
ALSO one last complaint: scaling forcelimit from subjects especially marches feels silly when you consider there simply isn't enough manpower to make the increased forcelimit more useable. I suppose it'd help to increase your merc cap, but that sorta plays in to the infinite mid-late game money...
 
No because you already lose liberty desire from actions that would do that which would hit you with a double whammy. The trust is to make it beneficial to keep a loyal marsh around for longer and letting it grow.

Be careful to not drown in said marsh ^^
 
It's even a buff to TC's, with the new states/territory balance, TC's will be even stronger and more important now.

Don't forget the new special buildings introduced with Dharma. Well time to play some Honourable East India Company Universalis IV :rolleyes:

This and the TC changes are a huge buff to thoughtfully directed expansion. The territory corruption is a significant nerf to mindless blobbing. My first thought is that I like it. Won't stop WCs but it will mean that holding vast amounts of territories will be costly which makes sense.

discourages mindless blobbing, reinforces the strategy of putting your capital on some godforsaken island in Oceania as an Asian nation, later switching to Europe. Not sure if that's a good trade off
 
Hm I expected balance changes as nerfing/buffing things like culture switching, manpower issues and what not but i guess we'll get that in patch notes.

Some really nice changes, estate land annoyance reduced, trade nodes and ming tributaries are really welcome, gj. More states will buff manpower i guess, as well as money.. but there's corruption penalty so money gets negated. Interesting.


One other issue with estates is how complicated events are. Some of these events are super complicated (add 10 loyalty 15 influence here, reduce here, increase there or smth smth and you need to go see current levels and cooldowns... my head hurts when i see popup with wall of text). Can you please do something about this?

In general reducing useless event popups would be nice... if there's no meaningful choice why use popups unless its super important ? There are ton of popups that don't bring anything useful but force you to stop the game... ie. Popup Universalis. Would be really nice to have a side menu where this temporarily popup and dissappear in 3 seconds without forcing us to click it. Civilization has this but it was implemented a bit ugly. EU4 have side window for this - how about improving its display and reducing events spam?

Also, are you planning to change anything about idea groups? Some would really welcome change..
 
I don't really like the change. First, you guys reduced number of available states few patch ago, only to increase it again but now with penalty to corruption if you have more states than available states? Buffing playing "tall" but nerf people who prefer big name on the map? I don't think it really nice balance.
Second, Why you limit player option in choosing what kind of country they wanna play? Blocking off people for having fun? if I want to be Super space marine Yuan who have permanent claim on entire India and somehow able to summon Space Orc out of nowhere, why can I play as them? I don't really give ****** about realism, it's game afterall.
Tl;dr : Anti fun change, please reconsider
One anwser: Mods.

Mods are EXACTLY what you are talking about. Having fun, doing weirds stuff, that is (in part) what mods are for.
 
I really do not see why this hard block on forming countries.
I think it brought tons of fun to do some weird things.
And I am guessing here, but I would say most people do not do this kind of shenanigans, it's not as "easy" and it usually costs points to promote cultures and such.
But watching streamers come up with weird combos and switching countries is a lot of fun.
Thus this being a game after all, fun should come before most things.