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EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of July 2018

Good morning all! What would Tuesday be without an EU4 dev diary? Tragic, I say, so here for the last of the Summer dev diaries while the bulk of the Swedes are on vacation, I bring to you a summary of balance changes coming in the 1.26 Mughal Update. This is not exhaustive (We'll post up the full changelog closer to release) and is about changes made to the game and its existing mechanics, rather than the new stuff we've added. We'll have another Dev Diary in the future to act as a "roundup" of new mechanics and how they work.

Estates:

As we have mentioned before, Estates now cause a disaster at 100% influence rather than 80%. They also no longer have a minimum requirement for land. In addition to this:

- Confiscating estate land now gives a +5 unrest modifier in the province for 15 years. This modifier goes away if you give the land to another estate.
- Confiscating estate land now adds 25 local autonomy in the province that the estate was previously in.
- Advisors generated by Estate interactions now scale in cost depending on estate influence.
- Influence from estate events generally increased.
- Cossack Estate now gains twice as much influence per development in granted provinces.
- The cap for how much development in granted provinces can increase influence is now 50% rather than 40% for all estates.

Trade Nodes:

- Bengal trade now flows into Doab, which in turn flows into Lahore (renamed from Kashmir) undoing the injustice to these nodes.
- General renaming and reshaping of Indian trade nodes (see screenshot)
- The Katsina Trade Node now connects to Ethiopia instead of Alexandria.
- The Ethiopia Trade node now also connects to Aden.
- Coromandel flows straight to the Cape

Trade n stuff.png


In general this means more Indian trade will be able to flow around Africa into Europe without needing massive amounts of control in Aden. Zanzibar isn't quite the slush fund it used to be, but remains lucrative.

Tributaries:

Far away tributaries with no expectation of help or feasible reason to be a subject was something we're looking to change with this update. As such, the AI is no longer interested in establishing new tributary relationships with nations who do not border them. This goes for both asking and receiving requests. Existing tributaries are fine, so Ayutthaya & Khmer won't suddenly want to abandon Ming in 1444.

Speaking of Ming, 1.26 may as well be renamed the Sukhothai update, as declaring an independence war no longer calls in your overlord's Tributary overlord. Sukhothai can now declare war against Ayutthaya without Chinese intervention.

Expansion:

An issue in EU4 that we've long recognised is that conquest is almost always a good idea: you are able to immediately get a financial benefit from land, buff up your own forcelimit, size, trading potential, while at the same time denying your foes that land. We've been wanting to change this so that one has to consider what they conquer with a bit more forethought and with that we turn to your States.

Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.

In conjunction with this, all nations' base state limit has been doubled (up from 5 to 10).

There is a define ALLOWED_TERRITORY_VS_MAX_STATES which allows you to tweak this value in defines.lua

Subjects:

In the interest in encouraging more indirect rule, holding a subject for a long time will gradually reduce their liberty desire. Subjects can now also gain trust with their overlord, instead of having it pinned at 50.
Force Limit Contribution from subjects now scales with the subject's own FL, minimum of +1 + 10% from vassals, +20% from marches.


End Game Tags:

Preventing weird country formations, like Ottomans to Byzantium or Minghals or England to Mughals to Shan to Mughals to Japan is something we're historically not very good at. It generally involves a lot of different file changes and something usually gets overlooked. In script as of 1.26 we now have a scope known as "End game tags" which will prevent most cases of such nations forming other nations (Holy Roman Empire, Rome and Papal States are so special they trump this list, eg: Byzantium can for Rome, Italy can form Holy Roman Empire...).

The current list is:

Mughals
Ottomans
Byzantium
Rome
Holy Roman Empire
Rum
Qing
Russia
Commonwealth
Japan
Yuan
Hindustan
Bharat
Arabia
Papal States
Spain
Great Britain
Italy
Germany
Ming

That's the bulkier of the balance changes. As usual, there will be more nuanced changes in the fine details to come along in the full Changelog, which we will be sharing closer to release.

We are well aware that balance changes can get people worked up and are seldom without contention. I have very fond memories of forums around the the 1.12 release. Remain civil when expressing your feelings over your favourite balance changes as, although I endeavour to explain why we make changes, there are as many opinions as eyeballs in the world. Thanks for your time.

And if Balance Changes are not your cup of tea, let's have a look at some of the other National Idea changes brought along in the 1.26 Update. We'll look over at the Bengal region, where there is now a distinction between The Bangal Sultinate, and the Bengali Minors in the area.

I love U.png


Bengal Sultanate ideas
start =
infantry_power = 0.1
global_manpower_modifier = 0.15

bonus
backrow_artillery_damage = 0.15


bng_combat_piracy =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"Pirates have infested the waters of the Bay of Bengal for too long. We must protect traders en route to our ports by discovering and eliminating pirate havens along the Arakan coast."

bng_habshi_generals =
army_tradition = 0.5

"Abyssinian slave-soldiers purchased in Arab markets play a significant role as elite infantry soldiers. Those that excel as leaders shall be given greater levels of command, while those who demonstrate exceptional loyalty shall make up the palace guard."

bng_clearing_the_delta =
development_cost = -0.1

"The Bengal Delta contains an immense expanse of potentially very profitable land that goes unexploited due to thick forestation. We must subsidize efforts to clear the forests to make way for new farmlands, cities, and trading posts."


bng_attract_sufis =
idea_cost = -0.1

"Sufis have long been innovators of Islamic thought as well as wise councilors. If we wish to be a leading voice in the future of the Islamic world, we must patronize Sufi lodges and convince the wisest among their order to settle in our domain."

bng_conquest_of_the_gangetic_plain =
leader_land_shock = 1

"To our west are the fertile and populated lands of the Indo-Gangetic Plain. The Sultans of Bengal have long coveted its great cities and vast wealth, but only now as a new and ambitious crop of generals rise to power is our ambition likely to become a reality. We must do all we can to ready our forces for the coming conquest."

bng_rupees =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"The lack of a widely adopted standardized currency is stunting the development of Indian commerce. As one of the foremost economic powers in the subcontinent, we are well placed to begin the minting of a new silver coinage with standard weights, which we shall call the rupee."

bng_bengali_industrialization =
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1

"Bengal is uniquely situated in India to begin a revolution unlike any seen before. We stand poised to exploit new developments in our already world-class textile and shipbuilding industries. Let us begin an industrial revolution!"


Bengali Minors ideas =
start =
merchants = 1
infantry_power = 0.1
}

bonus =
prestige = 1
}


hindu_sufi_syncretism =
religious_unity = 0.5

"Beyond the eastern frontiers of the Islamic world, came Sufi mystics to settle land grants or to commune with nature in Bengal, intermingling with the Hindu population. Cooperation led to extensive land reclamations in forested and marshy areas and helped to introduce new syncretic forms of music, painting, dancing and sculpture reflected in the temples and shrines constructed during this period."

ganges_brahmaputra_confluence =
trade_efficiency = 0.1

"The mighty Ganges and Brahmaputra have traveled far to intermingle and spread out into the Bengal Delta, funneling trade and commerce in its wake. For thousands of years the area around the delta has been a natural place for the easy exchange of goods and ideas."

rice_fields =
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2

"We Bengalis are primarily rice eaters, and the rainfall and soil in the area lends itself to massive surplus rice production, with the mighty silt laden rivers and monsoon allowing for three separate growing and harvest seasons a year."

mustard_oil_ilish_mach =
war_exhaustion_cost = -0.10

"Wars may torch the granaries and markets. The weather may wither or crush the crops in the fields. Elephants and ants may try to eat what we have planted. Give us a little oil, however, and our fish-laden rivers will give us the food we Bengalis desire most!"

jute_production =
#production_efficiency = 0.1

"Native to our region, Jute is a long, soft, shiny vegetable fiber that can be spun into coarse, strong rope, matting or thread. In high demand for its resilience and relatively light weight, we can benefit from its cultivation and production."

opium_fields =
global_tax_modifier = 0.1

"What's that? People will give us gold and silver for our flowers!? The opium of our region is highly prized and easily grown, commanding twice the price of any other opium in the world. Let the trade begin!"

bengali_renaissance =
global_institution_spread = 0.1

"The Bengal Renaissance that took place in this region was a reaction to the encounter and impact of Europeans arriving for not only commerce, but for study, art and scholarship. The Bengal Renaissance blended together Hindu teachings from the past with Western education, politics and law, as well as a re-casting of Bengali culture. This led to a flourishing of the arts and sciences."

And if neither Balance changes nor National Ideas are your thing, well, swing by next week, where we'll talk about that new image you keep seeing in the buildings interface is. There are still a fair few dev diaries to come before Dharma is due to hit the shelves.
 

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I have to say, I'm not thrilled we the changes to territories in this upcoming DLC. Ever since I purchased the game I have been pretty content with every feature added or changed and have gladly purchased most of the DLC for the game. I don't much mind the corruption penalty and state to territory ratio but the inability to culture convert or send missionaries to territories seems like a completely unnecessary and ridiculous change to me. You're telling me that as a nation that invests into high missionary strength and having extra missionaries through national ideas or idea groups I can't convert some heretics / heathens because they're not stated? Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion, but I kind of feel like I wont be updating my game to this patch or beyond.
 
  • Goods produced = [(province production development x 0.2) + flat value modifiers] x (100% + sum of goods produced modifiers (in %))
    • so goods produced are not affected by local autonomy. Instead you will now even be able to invest 600 ducats in a TC area and get a + 0.3 flat value modifier for each province -> new system is clearly superior as you can spend money to increase goods produced instead of having to use dip points to develop a province
  • Trade value = (market price of a good) x (goods produced)
    • again no effect of local autonomy and since trade value depends on goods prodced the new system is again superior
  • Production income = (100 % + sum of production efficiency modifiers (in %)) x (100% - local autonomy) x Trade value / 12 (for monthly income)
    • for a zero autonomy TC province production income would simply be Trade value / 12 if we abstract from any production efficiency modifiers from other sources
    • remember that 600 ducats investment increasing goods produced? It also gives + 50% production efficiency. There's another 600 ducats per area investment increasing production efficiency by an additional 50% for 100% total. Means that production income would be 0.5 x Trade value / 12 with the new system for a 75% autonomy TC province (don't forget increased trade value from goods produced investment), current system would give you a bit more money
  • Tax income, manpower and sailors would be negatively affected by local autonomy, but there are again investments to reduce the impact. Tax income is negligible anyway compared to other income sources, sailors are meaningless once you have a handful of coastal provinces and manpower can be replaced by mercs from additional trade income in the new system
  • there's also an investment reducing development cost in TC provinces by 15%, making it cheaper to boost income from them
Overall the new system with a 75% autonomy would have some upfront cost from investments but long term it would probably still be superior to the current system (but numbers for investments could change from what was revealed in the DD back then). This also needs to take into account that going for TCs saves you money by not counting towards state/territory ratio, so no corruption

Cool, so in the end they don't care about balance anymore.
 
a nerf to big empires are always welcome in my book.
 
Paradox: We wanted to do something about doing the only thing there is to do in this game, by using a mechanic from Mare Badstrom which we nerfed like 4 times in a row shortly after implementing it.

Will history repeat itself? Find out at 11
 
I would add a little number (like 0,05 in a year or so) of base corruption. Even smallest governments with sole nation and religion HAVE corruption, it's inevitable. With that option, I would also buff espionage idea to -0,2 corruption in a year or so.
 
I would add a little number (like 0,05 in a year or so) of base corruption. Even smallest governments with sole nation and religion HAVE corruption, it's inevitable. With that option, I would also buff espionage idea to -0,2 corruption in a year or so.
They add a +0.05 corruption for empires but then forum didn't like it at all. Most people overreacted to that like now and after all that they reverted it back. Significant portion of the player base doesn't want or like realistic features based on history that limit the player. Assuming they don't like to roleplay, rather doing achievements. Thus I think there should be modes like "gamey" and "historical" where you cater both play styles seperately. I see no other solution honestly.
 
They add a +0.05 corruption for empires but then forum didn't like it at all. Most people overreacted to that like now and after all that they reverted it back. Significant portion of the player base doesn't want or like realistic features based on history that limit the player. Assuming they don't like to roleplay, rather doing achievements. Thus I think there should be modes like "gamey" and "historical" where you cater both play styles seperately. I see no other solution honestly.

That's quite awful. I had better opinion about EU IV fanbase. Like, isn't the game funnier when you have difficulties to overcome?
 
No missionaries in territories is just silly. It just means playstyles that try to convert everything get even more tedious and clicky than they already are. I don't know what the point of it is, since people will just juggle their states to get stuff converted, but be more annoyed by the process than they are currently. @DDRJake You're saying that these changes are considered and serve a purpose, well what is the purpose of this one other than to make converting more tedious than it already is?

Corruption for having lots of territories is interesting. Capped at 0.8 - but 100 OE is 0.5 corruption and 1 is the most you can buy down. I guess there are the ahead of time on tech bonuses as well. So beyond a certain point if you're staying at 100 OE you WILL gain corruption. Are there going to be more ways to manage corruption, or is the buy-down cap going to increase?

I don't mind changes that make WC more difficult but it seems some of these changes will just make it more tedious. If you make it require more skill to WC then that is fine, and I'd like that. With a lot of this it seems it will actually reduce the value of greater skill and others will just introduce more tedious busywork. I guess we have to wait to see how it plays out in practice and what other changes there are, but I'd be interested to see with each change how you guys think it will achieve the the thing you're saying you want it to achieve.
 
Boy oh boy what a DD,

I understand you wish to nerf or in some way curb super-wide play. One-tagging used to be nigh impossible back in the day, then it got easier and now it got much harder; such is the way the cookie crumbles.
I'm alright with that as it makes it harder and therefore more meaningfull IF one is to succeed in doing so even after these balance changes.
The corruption on territories is just money; we can find ways to deal with that. I do have a question regarding that though; if it's maxed at +0.80 which is huge and you have some religious disunity (which you will considering you can't convert in territories) some unbalanced tech and some overextension even spending the full anti-corruption slider won't be enough to stop corruption. So my question is will we be allowed to increase the slider to -2 to compensate for this? It is a huge amount of money. You would need a very well-oiled machine to keep that rolling and still do your other activities.

On Religion Change
I would like to petition for an ability in religious ideas or a policy with religious ideas which allows conversion in territories. @DDRJake I like the change for realism/historical reasoning but a super zealous empire would not leave the heathens to do their thing. Perhaps as a side effect or replacement of Religious/offensive or just an idea in religious. I quite like the idea of a devout aggressive expansionistic empire. Or maybe even include a religious policy like we have for colonization;
convert the heathens - increased unrest through lower tolerance but allows conversion in territories
encourage conversion -you can't convert but provinces might flip perhaps via religious center or through events
tolerance and kumbaya - you can't but you get tolerance of heathens and heretics

Gameplay wise not being able to convert leads to alot of problems. You either have to pick humanist every game or just straight up die to rebels or play wack-a-rebel for.. forever.
Even areas with no seperatism will start to rise up and attack you constantly; Now we do have our nice garrison unit option to deal with that but it's just not fun I suspect.
Also personally I myself, and I suspect alot of people here, like maps. Maps and painting them forming them changing them having an impact on those maps. Not being able to convert in territories achieves one of 2 things. Either one has to micro and change their CORE land every few decades which I don't think was the aim of this change at all. OR we can no longer paint a huge portion of our canvas which I think is a shame.

SO TLDR: Corruption tax: harder but ok we can deal maybe. Religious conversion: Please add an option to go into purge the heathens mode if you turn into a zealot.

The first time I read through the thread, this was the post that jumped out to me as the solution that made the most sense as a compromise. If the player wants to be a religious zealot, he should be able to do so, but he should have to pick ideas that allow him to do so! I didn't realize it was Florryworry himself who posted it until I went looking for the post after reading through the entire thread!
 
Cool, so in the end they don't care about balance anymore.

They seem to have a bit of a blind spot with balance for TCs, they've been super-powerful for quite some time though, and unlike mercenaries which were also kind of broken until recently, they haven't done a single thing to try and make them less of an overwhelmingly effective strategy. Indeed, we can see from this and previous DDs for Dharma that they are actually being buffed (new buildings, do not count towards territory cap)
 
I dont understand why most people say the change to missionaries is unrealistic. The time of lone wandering monks which seek to convert heatherns was allready over most of the known world was allready split between christs and muslims from a european perspectiv.
And with the changed how they administrate there states the religion became more of a goverment activity then a sole churche activity. This whole time is a example how goverments/kings put a lot energy into spreading there faith. With reformation and the upcoming state churches it became even more fused to the goverments.

Some examples for that is the Portugese way to india was also motivated as crusade not buy the church but by there King who want expand his power and spread his faith fight the enemy of his faith. Spain aswell the church took important part of the administration there which lead to the formation of the inquisition and to push out the muslim and jews. They spanish administraion also took matters in there hands to convert the new world and the philipines. Or the reason for the Leauge war the Emperor wanted to archive religious dominace of his faith. Or the struggle between plc and cossaks aswell it was a plc idea to try to convert the cossask. Same issue with irland and the uk the UK banned catholics for a long time from any poisition of power and enforced laws base on religion.

In this area the most minorites could surive only in areas where the goverment control was weak or had no intres in try conversation so historical it make sense yes, since religion and governance was still fused as a result of the medival times and it was a important ligimation and power tool for the states back then, that started end with the french revolution.

I know many player hate regulation in here but its the same issue stellaris faced, to much freedom can make the game boring and lose enjoyment because there isnt enough challenge . I saw so many people in here complaining that the game is to easy yet when they try to make it a bit more complicated and add bit mirco people complain. Are there better was to do regulate it yes but this is a good way in the right direction if they make states be more important.

About the saying that religious is a trash tier idea group i dont know why it would be one it is still usefull and strong. Due the good converstion speed and the extra missionar you can convert super fast which benefit you when you have to switch states to convert areas. So instead of wait maybe 20 month till your one missionar convert 1 province and have then 3 others to be donet till the area is converted and you can destated it to convert the next terretorie it would be way faster so i dont get why it would be worse beside that all there bonuses work also if you convert vassal land for them. And you get deus vult aswell dont seem weak to me in that situation
 
It seems most of the changes to expansion(state/territories) will revert back like some others in the past because of overreacting of the people. I just want at least make it possible to keep it with modding.
We had said nothing of the kind.
It is moddable though already.

Can we take every territory into account for corruption with this define? Not allowing single territory without corruption, that is. If not please do so.

Yes just set the value to 0