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EU4 - Development Diary - 25th of June 2019

Hello again! We have another fragmented dev diary today as each of us will talk about content that we’ve designed and implemented. Our focus this time will be on mission trees in the Balkans region.

To begin, I’ll hand you over to @Caligula Caesar for a look at the Austrian mission tree.

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Austria DD Missions.png


Austria already had quite a few missions, largely focusing on them acquiring their historical territories and solidifying their position as Emperor. However, we felt that there was plenty of room for new missions going in various directions. Some explore “what if” expansion opportunities, but we tried not to go overboard there and explicitly avoided giving PU CBs on the likes of France and Spain, as this would make Austria’s potential too OP. Instead, many new missions focus on internal affairs, governance of subject peoples, being a good Emperor and generally achieving diplomatic predominance. The result was a mission tree as extensive as any in the game at the moment.

One of the first missions in the old mission tree was to form a personal union with Hungary. As we know, the history of Austria’s rule of Hungary was an uneasy one, littered with attempted revolts and difficult compromises. We therefore added a few missions to reflect this. The mission “The Hungarian Question” requires you to not just own Hungary but also have no unrest, separatism or autonomy (taking into account estates). If you do this, you will gain Hungarian and Slovakian as accepted cultures, or if you have accepted them already, you gain +3 development in Pest and Bratislava. “Multicultural Empire”, the next mission, has similar conditions, but requires you to achieve them in a multitude of non-German provinces. Your reward is to gain the option of adopting a new base government reform called Imperial Austrian Monarchy.

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Saying "no" will give you lesser bonuses but let you keep your current reforms.

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Further down on the Balkan conquests branch, new missions were added to push further south into Serbia and Bulgaria, and ultimately drive the Ottomans from the Balkans, if you are up to the task. As currently, this branch splits to include the mission “Italian Ambition” (focusing on Venice), but now that mission is only the start of Austria’s ambitions in Italy, and Austria now has missions to take over Milan and Naples too.

The old mission to Secure Electors is now the start of a larger HRE-themed tree, which has you complete tasks such as ensuring that no HRE provinces are owned by non-HRE members, that there are no countries strong enough to challenge you in it (i.e. own 10 provinces and are not your subject), and that it is Holy (i.e. religious turmoil has been weathered), Roman (Rome and its owner are in the Empire) and truly an Empire (pass most of the reforms and have every member state have a positive opinion of you). The last three missions grant you, respectively, +1 Papal Authority (with some fallbacks if you are not Catholic), +0.1 Imperial Authority and +0.5 yearly Absolutism; however, you will lose these bonuses should you no longer be Emperor.

A pair of branches for limited expansion into Germany and the West have been added. One focuses on making the Austrian territories contiguous (i.e. there must be a land connection between Breisgau and Tirol), taking revenge for the exploits of a certain William Tell in Switzerland, and weakening France – the last not requiring outright conquest, but merely a higher monthly income and an army double the size of France’s, giving you an enviable +10% land morale and +25% improve relations for the next 20 years. The second branch starts with the old classic first targets of Salzburg and Augsburg (plus Trent now) before allowing you the opportunity to fulfill Austria’s long-time ambition of integrating Bavaria into their state. After that, you must choose how to deal with Brandenburg: Either crush them or make them very firm allies. Either way, you will be rewarded with a highly skilled Prussian army advisor at 25% the cost.

We also added a new colonial branch, starting from the Netherlands if you can acquire them. It provides some targets and bonuses for those who wish the Habsburgs to colonise the world, and also provides a much-needed nod to centuries of confusion between two countries with horribly similar names (I feel sorry for our translators…). There is also a new economic/administrative branch, which starts with ensuring the estates are fully behind you and then requires you to develop your Austrian provinces in various ways, concluding with making Vienna the fitting stage for the Viennese Waltz by giving it at least 50 development and 6 buildings, and demonstrating your care for culture by employing three level 3 advisors.

Finally, the new diplomatic branch starts with the fairly achievable task of being a Great Power, having a Great Power ally and a Great Power rival. However, it quickly becomes more challenging: “Spread the Habsburgs” requires you to have either 5 nations ruled by your dynasty or have your dynasty present on 5 continents. You then need to shift the balance of power in your favour by having at least 500 European province (out of 800-odd) be ruled by you, your allies/subjects, or members of the HRE (with you as Emperor); achieving this will give your ruler and future rulers for the next 30 years +2 dip skill. After crushing the Revolution, you then must assert your supremacy over Europe – all Great Powers in Europe must either be allied to you or have been defeated by you in the last 100 years. If you can manage all this, you will be in a truly dominant position and will be duly rewarded with +5% administrative efficiency.

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Aside from missions, there is another change to Austria that we can present at this stage. At present, Austria's heir is Ladislaus Postumus. Hungary usually soon acquires the same Ladislaus Postumus as an heir, but should both come to inherit their countries, they will continue to be treated as separate rulers and the countries will not form a union; even worse, the two Ladislauses have different stats! All this will now change. Firstly, they now have the same stats. Secondly, if either of them dies before both become king, the other will also die, so that one doesn't end up wondering why hunting accidents don't cross borders. Thirdly, if Ladislaus survives to become Archduke and King, Austria will become the senior PU partner of Hungary.

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As a further change, Hungary and Croatia have merged as the PU is formed. Given the historical particularities of the Croatian situation, we felt it more appropriate that they should be treated as part of Hungary if Hungary falls under a PU.

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Hey again folks, I'm @Ofaloaf and it's time to talk about Serbian missions.

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The Serbian Despotate in the middle of the 15th century was in a precarious state. The despotate was the descendant of the 14th century Serbian Empire, a realm which dramatically rose and fell over two generations, and which at its height had included much of Albania, Montenegro, and northern Greece. This empire disintegrated into bickering principalities in the later 14th century, all of which either ended up conquered by the advancing Ottomans or consolidated under the rule of a northern Serbian principality which is now often referred to as Moravian Serbia. The Serbian Despotate seen in 1444 is the result of Moravian Serbia's efforts to consolidate and rebuild the old empire, although it should be said that historically this did not end well for them and the Despotate was fully conquered by the Ottoman Empire in 1459.

So! Serbia has a recent legacy which serves as an excellent framework for many of its early missions. Serbian expansion focuses initially on the domains of the former Serbian Empire, encouraging the country to reincorporate the wayward provinces of Albania, Macedonia and northern Greece back into the realm. If that's pulled off (and taking on the Ottomans is no small matter!), then Serbian expansion generally tracks in two directions: East, towards Constantinople, and north, towards Austria. Along the way, Serbia will have to find ways to deal with the myriad cultures of the Balkans (including Bosnians, a new addition reflective of pre-Ottoman Medieval Bosnian culture) and use their faith to solidify their rule in their new domains.

If Serbia is willing to play a diplomatic game, there are some opportunities for peaceful gains. Hungary and Serbia had a very close relationship in the fifteenth century; Despot Stefan, father of the Serbian ruler in charge at the start of the Grand Campaign, agreed to become a nominal vassal of Hungary during his reign, and in return received the city of Belgrade, now modern-day Serbia's capital. Belgrade was returned to Hungary upon Stefan's death, but if Serbia is willing to rebuild relations with Hungary (without becoming a real vassal), the Hungarian crown just might be willing to repeat the deal it made with Stefan and cede Belgrade once more. If Serbia is not interested in diplomacy, of course, Belgrade can be regained by guile and force of arms too.

Serbia's missions are focused on survival and reclaiming territories which it had only recently lost. If it can weather the initial storm and make some tentative gains, Serbia has plenty of opportunities to expand and reclaim its place as a true empire once more.

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And now back to me, @neondt.

We have on the map several tiny Catholic nations in Greece that I’ll collectively refer to as the Crusader States. These are The Knights, Cyprus, Epirus, Athens, and Naxos. The Crusader States have some of the most challenging starting positions in the game, being at the mercy of the Ottomans as well as the wealthy Italians republics of Venice and Genoa. I decided to add a little flavor to these countries by way of a mission tree:

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As fantastical as some of these missions are, we remain committed to some degree of plausibility. There are no explicitly supernatural events in EU4, except for Hunting Accident which will always kill your 6/6/6 heirs.
Crusader missions are also available if you form Jerusalem


The first thing any aspiring crusader needs is a Crusader Fleet, for the journey to the Holy Land would surely be a disastrous undertaking on foot. 25% Galley Combat Ability might just give you the edge you need assault the shores of Syria. With your righteous army on terra firma, you should consider whether to head straight for Jerusalem or whether it would be wiser to first establish a base of operations at Antioch. A successful crusade for Antioch will give you the chance to restore the Hospitaller Order to their former glory, granting the city to the Knights and making them your vassals. If you are already playing as the Knights, you’ll permanently gain 10% Land Morale and 10% total Manpower. Of course you could simply keep the city for yourself and receive some Prestige, Army Tradition, and Papal Influence. Jerusalem however is the ultimate goal for any true crusader. This would be a good time to reveal that we have a new government reform for players that form Jerusalem:

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Tooltip is still WIP as is currently doesn't show that it grants religious CBs.

The Crusader State government reform (and legacy government) is exclusive to a Catholic Jerusalem and enables the Crusade and Cleansing of Heresy CBs, as well as giving a bonus to manpower recovery speed. It is available to both monarchies and theocracies. You can also create Custom Nations with the government type, though it comes at a point cost of 50 to offset how powerful these CBs can be given your choice of starting positions.

Extending the crusade to encompass all of the Kingdom of Heaven will aid you in your mission to Convert the Holy Land. You’ll also be tasked with a new target for your crusade: Egypt, the Land of Moses, with the goal of establishing a Catholic Archbishopric at Alexandria. In Egypt you’ll hear of rumors of a certain long-lost relic thought to reside in far Abyssinia...

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What revelations await those who would dare to open the Ark?

The quest for the Holy Land is not the only goal for the Crusader States. Greece must also be liberated from the heathen, and you must convince the Pope to sponsor a new crusade against the Turks. With a Foothold in Greece, you must restore the Latin Empire of Constantinople. The so-called Latin Empire was a product of the 4th Crusade, in which crusading armies decided to sack Constantinople and depose the Byzantines rather than reclaiming the Holy Land as they were tasked to do. We decided against adding a new formable nation for this purpose, but nonetheless you are charged with taking up its mantle.

There is one more grave danger facing Christendom: the menace of the Barbary Pirates operating from the coast of North Africa. Greece is not the most convenient base of operations for a crusade against the pirates, so you must negotiate with the rulers of Malta for ownership of the island. Malta must be equipped to deal with the pirate onslaught; construct a suitable defense and marvel as your enemies break upon its shores with a 50% local defensiveness modifier. With Malta armed and ready, it’s time to take the fight to the pirates. A Base in Africa must be established along the Tunisian or Libyan coast, and from there you’ll launch a grand Crusade Against Piracy, dominating the North African coast and making the seas safe for Christian travelers. Your own nation will be rewarded with a permanent boost to Naval Morale and Light Ship Trade Power. The seas offer opportunity for more than just pirates. This is the age of discovery, and there will surely be a need for Knights of the New World! Colonize any province in North or South America, and prepare to embark on a perilous journey to discover the legendary Fountain of Youth with the aid of a highly skilled Scottish conquistador. What wonders you’ll find on your quest I cannot say, but if the Fountain truly does exist it must be kept out of the wrong hands by any means necessary.

And that’s a wrap for today. We’re now entering the period of summer holidays at Paradox, but that won’t mean the end of dev diaries. I’ll still be around for the summer (compensating with a long winter vacation), and during that time we’ll be writing smaller dev diaries with a focus on a single country - like a mission tree plus some relevant content for that nation. Our first candidate will most likely be Naples. After the summer however we plan to start revealing some of the major reworks and features coming up in the European update, so stay tuned for more.
 
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Speaking about Ragusa, while the country was slavic, the proper town was preeminently latin until the earthquake of 1667.
 
Whatever, new mission trees, provinces and cultures are nice glad to see that.. wanna mention something else: i kind of hoped from these dev diaries to see more about game mechanics yet we got none? so far. So we can't really give back any feedback. July is coming - so thats month of for Swedes..

What this means is that we'll very late in development be shown how things work - and if we don't like it well too bad... there will be no time to take player feedback into account. Isn't this exaclty the situation we all wanted to avoid and which prompted DDRJake to write that DD at the end of last year and to change DLC cycle to take a full year and get out actual content?!?

I am afraid that we'll get little new real content - that changes the game and refreshes it. Mission trees and few new provinces will get old very quickly - if the gameplay feels pretty much the same i think everyone will stop playing after like 2 weeks.
 
In game, seeing as how Dubrovnik's population was predominantly Catholic and culturally western oriented, I think it fits under the "Croatian culture" tag better than it would under "Serbian culture". And although an ideal solution would be making it a specific "Ragusan culture" or creating a "Dalmatian culture" tag for it and the Dalmatian coastal cities, I think those just couldn't be implemented in EUIV due to the game's nature and mechanics.

How about creating a serbo-croat culture, pulling every serb and croat cultured province? I don't see why that place would have the privilege of a finer differentiation based on religion. If I understand correctly, the only (legitimate) reason why one group isn't satisfied with serb culture taking it all and the other group wants serb culture taking it all isn't because of a misfit but because of naming anyway.
 
On the topic of Bosnia, which started all of this, the notion that Bosnia didn't have it's own somewhat distinct culture prior to the spread of Islam is a bit of a stretch. It had it's own specific (slightly heretical) version of catholicism along with all the religious and traditional peculiarities that entailed, it's own version of cyrillic, and distinct burial traditions. Since nationality isn't a thing in 15th century Europe, and we really don't have too many sources from that area of the Balkans, practically the only cultural factor we have to fall back on in these instances is religion. And whatever camp you might be on with regards to what exactly the "Bosnian Church" was, it seems it was influential enough that a large part of the nobility adhered to it's teachings, and that it was prominent enough for the Holy See to take note of it and require most (if not all) Bosnian rulers to denounce it and/or reconvert to "proper" Catholicism. Even if we aren't able to discern what exactly the cultural practices of medieval Bosnia were (much like we can't do it with it's neighbours in the region), they were evidently different and distinct from both the medieval Serbian and the medieval Croatian culture - in as much as any of those two existed as coherent "things" either.

Except.... that it didn't. Bosnia didn't have it's own version of cyrillic, the slight variation changes it did have isn't enough for linguists to consider cyrillic used in Bosnia to be different than the one used in Serbia. Burial traditions? By that you mean stecci grave stones? I'm sorry to disappoint you but you can easily find those in western Serbia and some parts of modern day Croatia. And Bosnian church was nothing more than bogomilist heresy, that originated in Bulgaria and died out by the 1444 start date. In fact, very first mention of Bosnia was in chapter 32 of De Administrando Imperio which was titled: Of the Serbs and the land in which they live, where Bosnia is mentioned as a realm ruled by a Serbian duke Caslav.

Also, keep in mind that the word Bosnia is a hydronim, namely the area got it's name because of the river Bosna. Much like Rashka (name of a region in Serbia and at one point name of a state) got it's name due to river Ras. Bosnia itself belonged to the early Serbian state, and as such it actually took up only a certain central area of medieval Bosnia around the said river, which gained independence and expanded after Croatia fell under Hungarian rule and Serbia fell under Byzantine one. Furthermore, Bosnia never had more than 300.000 inhabitants in the medieval times, if a good chunk had Croatian culture and an even larger one Serbian, how many people exactly would have "Bosnian culture"? Bosnia was nothing more than a regional name, there isn't a singe nation in the Balkans that got it's name by the region they inhabited, on the contrary, regions they inhabited got the name by the Slavic tribes that settled it. Hence the new "nations" that are a product of recent events use names by the regions they inhabit. Montenegrins (Crnogorci) quite literally meaning Black Highlanders, Macedonians and Bosnians all base their names on a region and not a pre existing people as is the case with Slovenes, Croats, Serbs and Bulgarians.

"And that's not even mentioning Bosnia having, for at least a while, it's own political and governmental institutions, which breed cultural distinctiveness all on their own, just by existing and operating." and "Even if we aren't able to discern what exactly the cultural practices of medieval Bosnia were (much like we can't do it with it's neighbours in the region), they were evidently different and distinct from both the medieval Serbian and the medieval Croatian culture - in as much as any of those two existed as coherent "things" either"

And what cultural distinctiveness did they breed? How was culture in Bosnia evidently different? What exactly do you have that points to this in a manner that is reasonable? I'm really curious, so do elaborate without generalization.

If you intend to stretch the term culture in such a way regarding Bosnia, then you may as well give each province in EUIV a separate culture.
 
Except.... that it didn't. Bosnia didn't have it's own version of cyrillic, the slight variation changes it did have isn't enough for linguists to consider cyrillic used in Bosnia to be different than the one used in Serbia. Burial traditions? By that you mean stecci grave stones? I'm sorry to disappoint you but you can easily find those in western Serbia and some parts of modern day Croatia. And Bosnian church was nothing more than bogomilist heresy, that originated in Bulgaria and died out by the 1444 start date. In fact, very first mention of Bosnia was in chapter 32 of De Administrando Imperio which was titled: Of the Serbs and the land in which they live, where Bosnia is mentioned as a realm ruled by a Serbian duke Caslav.

Also, keep in mind that the word Bosnia is a hydronim, namely the area got it's name because of the river Bosna. Much like Rashka (name of a region in Serbia and at one point name of a state) got it's name due to river Ras. Bosnia itself belonged to the early Serbian state, and as such it actually took up only a certain central area of medieval Bosnia around the said river, which gained independence and expanded after Croatia fell under Hungarian rule and Serbia fell under Byzantine one. Furthermore, Bosnia never had more than 300.000 inhabitants in the medieval times, if a good chunk had Croatian culture and an even larger one Serbian, how many people exactly would have "Bosnian culture"? Bosnia was nothing more than a regional name, there isn't a singe nation in the Balkans that got it's name by the region they inhabited, on the contrary, regions they inhabited got the name by the Slavic tribes that settled it. Hence the new "nations" that are a product of recent events use names by the regions they inhabit. Montenegrins (Crnogorci) quite literally meaning Black Highlanders, Macedonians and Bosnians all base their names on a region and not a pre existing people as is the case with Slovenes, Croats, Serbs and Bulgarians.

"And that's not even mentioning Bosnia having, for at least a while, it's own political and governmental institutions, which breed cultural distinctiveness all on their own, just by existing and operating." and "Even if we aren't able to discern what exactly the cultural practices of medieval Bosnia were (much like we can't do it with it's neighbours in the region), they were evidently different and distinct from both the medieval Serbian and the medieval Croatian culture - in as much as any of those two existed as coherent "things" either"

And what cultural distinctiveness did they breed? How was culture in Bosnia evidently different? What exactly do you have that points to this in a manner that is reasonable? I'm really curious, so do elaborate without generalization.

If you intend to stretch the term culture in such a way regarding Bosnia, then you may as well give each province in EUIV a separate culture.

I mostly agree, except that I think that Bosnia was historically more Croat regarding culture, but I guess on that topic there will never be agreement.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Cyrillic

I mean what is the catch lol? Lets presume if people in Bosnia were serbs - why they didn't at any point ever joing with Serbian kingdom. Since they actually did not. If they were a mix of serbs and croats and native population, whoever lived there.. they obviously wanted their own country/kingdom which already makes them different.
Now you add time, geographic isolation - which is actually a thing since roads are modern invention in Balkan :D, then religion then influences and everything else from that chart from few pages ago and you start to get something called culture. What are origins doesn't matter.

I mean with that logic we can as well remove American culture from the game since they are english. Some people came also along but that doesn't matter english started it.

ps. i'll count dislikes as russian troll bots on internet in general since there's more than 10 billion of those i think
 
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Mates
This whole Bosniak Culture Circus is getting ridiculous

I am not taking sides but if you all really want a Bosniak culture go play in Beyond Typus, it has it
 
I mostly agree, except that I think that Bosnia was historically more Croat regarding culture, but I guess on that topic there will never be agreement.
Topic of the discussion isn't if Bosnia was more Serbian or Croatian. Honestly i don't think that apart from religion there was such a stark difference between the two cultures in that specific period, after all, Serb and Croatian tribes lived next to each other before migrating to Balkans. (strictly speaking of culture, one could say the same thing about Bulgaria if you want to stretch it, entire Slavic part of the Balkans had barely over 2 million people back then so realistically how really different was the actual way of life as a whole if you disregard linguistic differences?), there was most certainly no animosity that we find today.

The topic however, is the existence of separate Bosnian culture in 1444 and should the already small south Slavic culture be further broken apart by adding province(s) with a new culture, gameplay and historic arguments.
 
Well Slovenian was added to the game? Lets remove them. -_-
Slovenians existed as their own culture that had it's own language without a shred of doubt, and they occupy 3 provinces. How many provinces would Bosnian culture potentially have? One?
 
Just merge them all into Yugoslav culture, problem solved

This said, I see no problem with Bosnian culture history-wise. Culture doesn't imply it'll be static or unchanged, with a good example being Novgorodian culture in Russia which by the end of EU4 timeframe completely disappeared. Bosnian is more of a separate identity, in spectrum with Croatian and Serbian.
And no culture implies a future nation (see countless German cultures).

The only concern is gameplay and that small cultures are not interesting to accept... since you can instead accept some huge Turkish culture instead. Why there is no scaling cost and a discount/free acceptance on one culture group is weird.
 
Start with one province or two or three i don't care - gotta start somewhere at some point in time. Paradox can decide its their game and it happened in eu4 timeframe. Many countries and what not in game have arbitrary modern names - is Marocco completely modern name?
Shall we remove jewish and zoroastrian from game since they are 1 province? Its there for flavor and because of history and its a game.
 
Start with one province or two or three i don't care - gotta start somewhere at some point in time. Paradox can decide its their game and it happened in eu4 timeframe. Many countries and what not in game have arbitrary modern names - is Marocco completely modern name?
Shall we remove jewish and zoroastrian from game since they are 1 province? Its there for flavor and because of history and its a game.


Uhmm... Not bad idea

They should start with 0 provinces
 
Slovenians existed as their own culture that had it's own language without a shred of doubt, and they occupy 3 provinces. How many provinces would Bosnian culture potentially have? One?

I guess Hezegovina will be split between Bosnians in Hum and Serbs in Travunia. While Bosnia proper would probably have Donji Kraji Croatian, to represent historic Croat presence in Tropolje, and Podrinje would be Serbian, with the rest of the country being Bosnian.

I just have a minor grape with Donji Kraji province, it includes many regions which were later added during the Ottoman occupation, like today's Bosanska Krajina/Una-Sana Canton, and counties which were a part of Bosnia for centuries by the game start, like Tropolje region.

P.S.: Could you rename provinces Visoki to Vrhbosna (Visoki was a royal seat in the greater region of Vrhbosna or Gornja Bosna) and Bosnia to Soli (just to avoid general confusion between Country/Province name and to properly state that salt trade good in the game province comes from Soli, which was and is one of the most important economic regions of Bosnia, mostly know for their salt mines).
 
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I guess Hezegovina will be split between Bosnians in Hum and Serbs in Travunia. While Bosnia proper would probably have Donji Kraji Croatian, to represent historic Croat presence in Tropolje, and Podrinje would be Serbian, with the rest of the country being Bosnian.

I just have a minor grape with Donji Kraji province, it includes many regions which were later added during the Ottoman occupation, like today's Bosanska Krajina/Una-Sana Canton, and counties which were a part of Bosnia for centuries by the game start, like Tropolje region.

P.S.: Could you rename provinces Visoki to Vrhbosna (Visoki was a royal seat in the greater region of Vrhbosna or Gornja Bosna) and Bosnia to Soli (just to avoid general confusion between Country/Province name and to properly state that salt trade good in the game province comes from Soli, which was and is one of the most important economic regions of Bosnia, mostly know for their salt mines).

How about you provide a valid argument as to why those specific provinces should get Bosnian culture?