Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV. This time we talk about something that will be in the next major patch we do.

One of the parts of the game that has not changed much since eu1 is the concept of technology groups and technological development around the world. We’ve added concepts like westernising, and tweaked that one, but in the end Europe has a huge advantage from day 1, and lots of fun gameplay options are limited the further away you are.

So this is what will happen in 1.18, when it is released this autumn..

A nation’s technology group no longer affect technology research.

There is now a concept called Institutions, which will affect your technology research. There are seven different institutions that appear over the game, and if you don’t get them to spread into your country and then get embraced by your government, your technology costs will slowly rise.

Each institution will appear in a province fullfilling certain factors, and then slowly spread around the world. The nation owning that province will gain prestige and monarch power.

Every year the penalty for not having embraced an institution will grow by 1%, so there is a gradual process.

When an institution has spread to at least 10% of your development, you can embrace it in your government, removing the penalty permanently, and also giving a bonus to your nation. The cost to embrace depends on the amount of development in your nation without the institution.

All institutions spread over borders (including 1 seazone away), if relations are positive, and the spread is based on development in the province getting it. There are also lots of other factors related to the spread.

So which are the the seven institutions then?

Feudalism
This is present from the start in almost all the world, except among the hordes, new world and sub-saharan africa. It will slowly spread into neighboring lands, but it is not quick.
Bonus: Gives 1 extra free leader.
Penalty: 50%


Renaissance
This appears in Italy after 1450, in either a capital or a 20+ development province. It will spread quickly through high development in europe, particularly through italy, but can only spread into provinces that have feudalism already.
Bonus: 5% Cheaper Development & 5% Cheaper Buildings
Penalty: 20%


Colonialism
Appears after 1500 in a port province in Europe, who’s owner has the Quest of the New World idea, and have discovered the new world. And will spread very quickly through any port in countries with colonies.
Bonus: +10% Provincial Trade Power
Penalty: 20%


Printing Press
This arrives after 1550, most likely in germany, but can happen in any protestant or reformed province. It will spread quickly in Protestant and Reformed territory, but also into capitals with dip tech 15.
Bonus: 5& Cheaper Stability
Penalty: 20%


Global Trade
This arrives after 1600, in a center of trade in the highest value trade node, and will spread quicker into provinces with trade buildings.
Bonus: +1 Merchant
Penalty: 20%

Manufactories
This arrives after 1650 in a province with 30 development and a manufactory, and will spread quicker into provinces with manufactories.
Bonus: +10% Goods Produced
Penalty: 20%

Enlightenment
Arrives after 1700 in a province that either is a seat of a parliament, or is a province in europe owned by a monarch with at least 5 in all stats. Universities & Parliament Seats spread this institution.
Bonus: 25% Cheaper Culture Conversion
Penalty: 30%
​

What does this mean?


The progress of Europe is not guaranteed, but most importantly, a nation in Asia or Africa is no longer crippled from day 1, and forced to avoid spending power on ideas and development.

------

We’re constantly tweaking the spread factors, but here are some screenshots from mid 18th century in a hands-off game from this morning.

This is the institutions mapmode, where green are provinces that have all the enabled institutions, and yellow are don’t have them all.

And here is the technology mapmode, of the same game.

Some other aspects that has changed include the following
- New World Native Reforming will give you all institutions that the one you reform from has.
- Trade Companies are available to all technology groups.
- Lots and lots of triggers on western techgroups have been changed to check for specific relevant institutions.

 

[DDRussian]

Will it be possible to mod the requirements for the different institutions and how they spread? Or what institutions are present in the game (i.e. adding new ones)?

 

[Canute VII]

But Capitalism has connection with freedom of business and profit which in other words implies free trade. What they were doing was state coordinated even though there were private investors. There was an exclusive focus on national territories and oversea colonies for the sake of profit back in Europe.

Well, there are different connotations to the word "capitalism" and capitalism has evolved from agrarian capitalism to merchant capitalism to mercantilism to industrial capitalism... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism You could also argue, that mercantilism is really a form of state capitalism, imho. Also the Medici and Fuggers in banking were certainly not coordinated by the state.

 

[Emre Yigit]

Does anyone know if:

a) the spread of institutions within a country is affected by anything? I.e., would, for example, having the innovative idea group speed up the adoption but, say, the religious group slow it?

b) the spread of institutions is to adjacent provinces only? If, say, Austria owns a province next to the province that gets the Global Trade institution, could the idea jump to the Austrian province there, and then leapfrog across the HRE to the Austrian core? Or from, say, London to the British colonies?

c) the spread of institutions is different between a country and across borders? I.e., if the printing press shows up in Bavaria, is it more likely to spread to Bavarian provinces than Austrian?

d) colonial nations have any special dynamics? If Brazil declares independence from Portugal, in, say, 1680, and the Portuguese become all enlightened in 1700, what happens?

Apologies if already addressed.

 

[Canute VII]

I also think that some Idea groups could work well with creating/spreading Innovation. The likelihood would be based on the average number of Ideas taken per province in the region, probably.

Feudalism - Aristocracy
Renaissance - ???
Public Literacy - ???
Scientific Revolution - Innovative
Colonialism - Exploration
Globalism - Trade
Enlightenment - Humanism
Industrial Revolution - Economic
Ideological Politics - Influence

Yes, maybe, other ideas could inhibit the spread of institutions (religious?)... Well, and/or spread could be tied to buildings?:
Feudalism - forts
Renaissance - temples/cathedral
Public Literacy - libraries/schools/colleges/lycee (new)
Scientific Revolution - workshops
Colonialism - shipyard
Globalism - marketplace etc.
Enlightenment - universities
Industrial Revolution - manufactories
Ideological Politics - courthouse/town hall

 

[bitmapmedivh]

Well, looking at the code Johan posted, it seems the spread and embracement of Institutions can be modded pretty much in whatever way you want. Want to add a myriad of factors to determine the spread? Go right ahead. Want to condition embracement with something other than "always = yes"? Go do that. If I'm understanding it correctly, ony could probably create parallell, mutually exclusive Institutions.

 

[Canute VII]

When thinking about it, could this be the Moment where pdx should tie the tech cost modifier to idea cost? E.g. If you start as north american tribe you'd have to pay 150% * 600 MP for technology ans equally 150% * 400 MP for ideas. In the end tech and ideas are often quite similar concepts. It would discourage strategies where I go full into ideas, hoping to get some tech didcounts from just waiting it out. It vould also lend more teeth to the new tech cost penalty in General, no?

 

[Metz]

Mercantilism could work, but with "Globalism" I was picturing a united, global trade network and the beginnings of modern diplomacy (the Westphalian system).

The Renaissance actually began in the 1300s, 1450 is plenty early enough.

I also think that some Idea groups could work well with creating/spreading Innovation. The likelihood would be based on the average number of Ideas taken per province in the region, probably.

Feudalism - Aristocracy
Renaissance - ???
Public Literacy - ???
Scientific Revolution - Innovative
Colonialism - Exploration
Globalism - Trade
Enlightenment - Humanism
Industrial Revolution - Economic
Ideological Politics - Influence

As per somebody else's suggestion, East Asian countries could have special mechanics regarding these Institutions. China and Japan, for example, both had Public Literacy from the start, but they were resistant to other Institutions' spread. I can see a situation where Japan has the ability to either embrace Globalism and become flooded with kirishitan. Or China adopting the Enlightenment, but losing the Mandate of Heaven.

Renaissance - Humanism
Public Literacy - Quality
Enlightenment - Administration

 

[No idea]

I remember the events in EU1 that triggered only for a particular nation at a particular time. Made it very important to time your ownership of the Netherlands if one was France, Spain, or Austria, but anyone else could plow in and grab the territory... some of these have "gamey" features like that built into them.

I know it's harder work, but... these need to kick off based upon conditions other than geography/nationality. For example, "Printing Press". The German OPMs were "tall and narrow", so they were already well-placed to go with that innovation because of that, not because they were German or Protestant. In fact, there were many Catholics that took to the presses to spread their propaganda in fighting Protestantism.

There should also be significant penalties for taking on innovations. They should be a risk - Louis XVI thought it would be a good idea to convene the Estates-General for a brief session about finances... China's path was to resist innovations that increased unemployment and unrest, but to embrace those that improved farming and mining output, as well as refinements in artisan techniques. Ottomans, Mughuls, Safavids, and Russians were the "gunpowder empires", going after military innovations and letting the arts and letters side of things take a back seat. Shah Akbar of the Mughuls *wanted* to revolutionize religion in his empire, but that went nowhere after he died. So, yes, innovate if you want to, but there could be a sharp risk of revolt, rebellion, or rollback on ones that the people or elites feel go too far. Stability hits, increased unrest, mutinies, government change - all should be risk factors. Adopting innovations should be like navigating a difficult strait.

Spain was famous for having a spurt of growth and then centuries of conservatism - that should be something for every huge empire to consider. Whereas, who's to say that Navarra, if it survives on its own, couldn't be where some of these innovations kick off? Or a very well-played small Asian state?

How about multiple "homes" for innovations, as in the case of the Reformation Centers. This time, though, the speed of dissemination within a nation is a function of how fast the ruler wants to go. A "Printing Press" idea that begins in a very conservative Austria might slowly spread to the OPMs nearby, but once it hits those locations, the rulers there may choose to adopt much faster than the Austrians and spread their innovation forth all the faster.

And for players that wish to resist, there should still be that involuntary creep - like with the Reformation. Being friendly to an innovative nation means that, yes, those innovations are on their way to your lands, like them or not. This is why there was a League of Three Emperors - they weren't having any of that Liberalism nonsense! They befriended each other and took a stand against voting and horrible things like that.

And, so help me, if this feature leads to a general consensus that optimal play is to be a Germanic OPM with trade in the North Sea until 1690, and then unleash the Kraken... then it's not the right direction. To that end, trade flows have to be reversible. If I'm running the table with Seville as my center, those merchants from Genoa need to come to my yard to drink my milkshake. Seville trade should not keep flowing to Genoa all the way to 1820. Maybe there should be no "ultimate node" centers like Genoa, Venice, and North Sea.

I've loved EU since, well, you can see when I joined the forums. I love it as an open-ended sandbox that allows me to ask questions, do a few console mods, and then let the rich game engine answer those for me. I don't want to play a game as much as I want to let history go down its own rabbit-hole. The changes that made owning the Netherlands a tricky situation for any non-Dutch monarch are part of what makes the game great. Changes that make it vital to control Nuremberg by 1550 do not make it great.

Multiple centers of change, big risks, event chains, reversible trade flows: more of those, please!

I fully agree that innovations shoyld come with stab hits or some other penalties, although temporary.

 

[Magnive]

Will it be possible for institutions to give local modifiers to province they're present in?

 

[bitmapmedivh]

I fully agree that innovations shoyld come with stab hits or some other penalties, although temporary.

And if not, could one not mod on_action events for it?

 

[Emre Yigit]

Thinking more about this change, and the fact that technology will be totally revamped from the same system used (more or less) since EU1 first came out, this feels more like EU4 2.0 rather than 1.8.

This is a bigger change than the loss of the not-missed clickfest of the trade centres.

@Johan change the trade system to be more dynamic and call it 2.0!

 

[Lord_P]

This right here... this is very big.

 

[deanwebb]

Maybe one more thing is needed for innovations... either a slider or a toggle switch on how historical one wants the triggers to be...

HISTORICAL: Innovations will appear roughly in the time period and region as they did historically.
HISTORY-WEIGHTED: Innovations will mostly appear when/where they did in history, but there may be some surprises.
OPEN-ENDED: Innovation appearance criteria will be based only upon development / ideas / trade and have no historical factors in calculating their arrival. If mass literacy arrives in Germany in 1550, too bad. You had your shot, and you should have tried harder as Malacca.

If done in conjunction with lucky nations, lucky nations should have yet more increased weight on getting innovations, as appropriate.

 

[Thorin]

Nice one, plz allow some more option for starting places, maybe even multiple starting locations

>Feudalism
Don't need change from the idea

>Renaissance
Why can't start from other highly developped position? Or at least do a second (third) starting place in some other areas. Chinese or Japanese culture should be good enogh for this.

>Colonialism
Why limit to Europe? If i do a Kamchatkan colonial start, it could be a realistic starting position, or many other option should be valid. That way even giving a chance to cripple the European power and get headstart for the other side of the world.

>Printing Press
Acceptable

>Global Trade
Finally one with chance for others, thx. (even if it is hard to compete with the european big ones)

>Manufactories
This will be fun to gain.

>Enlightenment
Good one again.

 

[Agoria]

Nice one, plz allow some more option for starting places, maybe even multiple starting locations

>Renaissance
Why can't start from other highly developped position? Or at least do a second (third) starting place in some other areas. Chinese or Japanese culture should be good enogh for this.

"Renaissance" means "rebirth", because it's the fact of embracing old Antique ideas, rediscovering Antique knowledge so it can't apply to them just because they are highly developed.
But I agree on the fact that it shouldn't be forced to appear specificaly in Italy.
For example, Portuguese Renaissance is not linked to the Italian one, but has the same ingredients : rediscovering Antique knowledge (through islamic heritage in portuguese case, instead of byzantine one for Italy), and in the case of Portugal, Science was also stimulated by explorations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Renaissance
It would be interesting to implement multiple Renaissance focuses.


On a side note, I don't like westernization's disappearance.
Making it vanish like that will make the game even more eurocentric. Westernization existed and had very important effects. It was almost immediate, like firearms in Japan, so it can't be emulated with this spreading system...

 

[victimizer]

Here's my idea of how and in what order institutions should emerge.

> Feudalism
Feudalism would emerge in areas dominated by small principalities or states; like France, Japan or the Holy Roman Empire, where it would already exist prior to the game starting. China breaking up in to statelets would likely cause the re-emergence of feudalism in that area as well.
New disaster: aristocratic uprising

>Municipalities
Municipalities would emerge in areas where feudalism has existed for a long time. Cities and larger communities develop their customs of self-governance in everyday matters instead of expecting the sovereign to deal with everything. A municipality is an organized way of providing such essential everyday urban services, which would reduce development costs by 10 %.
New disaster: plutocratic uprising

>Joint stock companies
Joint stock companies would emerge in economically highly developed regions which already enjoy traditions of feudalism and municipalities: regions with republics, trade or plutocracy ideas would be much likelier to discover and adopt these organizations. The joint stock company institution represents the development of more sophisticated and perpetual financial institutions, which also draw upon the financial resources of numerous shareholders instead of just depending on the personal finances of a single merchant: and because of this ability to pool capital, joint stock companies would greatly reduce building costs and ship building costs as well as providing another 10 % reduction in development costs.
No new disaster. Would enable the trade company.

>The printing industries
This institution represents the spread of printing presses in private operation. The dissemination of newspapers, books, technical documents and pamphlets helps to reduce tech penalties, while burdening the state with higher stability costs: because just as useful information spreads through the new cheap books, dissenting materials will also find their way in to the hands of the people. Religious strife and lively discourse is to be expected with this easy availability of previously scarce information.
New disaster: radical religious discourse

>academia
Academia represents the rise of genuine scientific institutions independent of state autocracy. Academic institutions can raise funds and donations from the emergent civil society of independent companies and local governments, instead of merely depending on the generosity of the king or the church. This allows the universities and academia the freedom of pursuing scientific challenges that might not be immediately profitable for the king (and could conceivably be harmful to him or his friends), but can lay the groundwork for important future discoveries.

>manifactories
With the new institutions allowing for improved capital accumulation and empirical investigation, new superior production methods can be studied and implemented.

>Syndicates and labor unions
The rise of organized labor is a double edged sword. Labor unions can be a bit volatile, giving birth to subversive ideologies of equality and fairness. However, they are a useful pressure valve for the concerns of the commoners and lowly workers. Once this institution emerges, the state may choose to embrace them for that purpose: effectively ending peasant revolts and uprisings, but at the cost of adding an additional estate; the organized labor, while also adding the occasional possibility of strikes. Strikes would reduce production efficiency for a time, unless the state concedes to the workers demands.
New disaster: left-wing revolution

---

Other institutions:

>The Waqf
Unique for Islamic countries. Waqfs would reduce unrest and increase trade income, while also increasing development costs.

>Imperial bureaucracy
Large, sprawling empires would give birth to this highly detrimental institution. The imperial bureaucracy would greatly increase corruption received from development in any province that adopts this institution. Even if the empire falls, the imperial bureaucracy can leave its destructive imprint on the province, forcing the inheritor of the province to suffer the penalties as well.

 

[overthewall]

Wow, seems someone has been reading Acemoglu lately Seems like a great addition, hope it'll works well

 

[Jorlem]

Again, if you had read the thread, including the developers own posts, then you would have known that "Printing Press", as an institution in the game, does not represent the invention of the printing press, but later developments.

The naming almost begs for misconceptions, though. It is the same issue as with the name "Crusader Kings" and "Europa Universalis", where people expect the main focus to be the crusades, and complain about all the focus going to other aspects, or how people try to shout down those requesting RotW improvements by saying the game is meant to be focused on Europe. No matter how many times or how well it is explained, if the name doesn't fit well with what it is meant to portray, there will be confusion and complaints. Heck, look at how coalitions and infamy had to be renamed, over in CK2. Just from the reactions in this threat, I think it is obvious that some of the names are not well fitted to what they are intended to communicate.

@Johan

 

[Canute VII]

Wow, seems someone has been reading Acemoglu lately Seems like a great addition, hope it'll works well

This: Landes, David S. (1998). The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some Are So Rich and Some So Poor.

Some backup reading for all (including pdx): http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.20.2.3
I found this article extremely good and well written, so can only recommend it

 

[TheAtreides84]

great change and idea, terrible details. Historians can't agree anymore on feudalism being an actual thing, printing press leaving out Aldo Manuzio and northern Italy, Enlightenment impacting cultural conversion, the exact same bonus of the totally opposed religious idea group...well, I think some modding will be in order.