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Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV. This time we talk about something that will be in the next major patch we do.

One of the parts of the game that has not changed much since eu1 is the concept of technology groups and technological development around the world. We’ve added concepts like westernising, and tweaked that one, but in the end Europe has a huge advantage from day 1, and lots of fun gameplay options are limited the further away you are.

So this is what will happen in 1.18, when it is released this autumn..

A nation’s technology group no longer affect technology research.

There is now a concept called Institutions, which will affect your technology research. There are seven different institutions that appear over the game, and if you don’t get them to spread into your country and then get embraced by your government, your technology costs will slowly rise.


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Each institution will appear in a province fullfilling certain factors, and then slowly spread around the world. The nation owning that province will gain prestige and monarch power.

Every year the penalty for not having embraced an institution will grow by 1%, so there is a gradual process.

When an institution has spread to at least 10% of your development, you can embrace it in your government, removing the penalty permanently, and also giving a bonus to your nation. The cost to embrace depends on the amount of development in your nation without the institution.

All institutions spread over borders (including 1 seazone away), if relations are positive, and the spread is based on development in the province getting it. There are also lots of other factors related to the spread.

So which are the the seven institutions then?

Feudalism
This is present from the start in almost all the world, except among the hordes, new world and sub-saharan africa. It will slowly spread into neighboring lands, but it is not quick.
Bonus: Gives 1 extra free leader.
Penalty: 50%


Renaissance
This appears in Italy after 1450, in either a capital or a 20+ development province. It will spread quickly through high development in europe, particularly through italy, but can only spread into provinces that have feudalism already.
Bonus: 5% Cheaper Development & 5% Cheaper Buildings
Penalty: 20%


Colonialism
Appears after 1500 in a port province in Europe, who’s owner has the Quest of the New World idea, and have discovered the new world. And will spread very quickly through any port in countries with colonies.
Bonus: +10% Provincial Trade Power
Penalty: 20%


Printing Press
This arrives after 1550, most likely in germany, but can happen in any protestant or reformed province. It will spread quickly in Protestant and Reformed territory, but also into capitals with dip tech 15.
Bonus: 5& Cheaper Stability
Penalty: 20%


Global Trade
This arrives after 1600, in a center of trade in the highest value trade node, and will spread quicker into provinces with trade buildings.
Bonus: +1 Merchant
Penalty: 20%

Manufactories
This arrives after 1650 in a province with 30 development and a manufactory, and will spread quicker into provinces with manufactories.
Bonus: +10% Goods Produced
Penalty: 20%

Enlightenment
Arrives after 1700 in a province that either is a seat of a parliament, or is a province in europe owned by a monarch with at least 5 in all stats. Universities & Parliament Seats spread this institution.
Bonus: 25% Cheaper Culture Conversion
Penalty: 30%


What does this mean?


The progress of Europe is not guaranteed, but most importantly, a nation in Asia or Africa is no longer crippled from day 1, and forced to avoid spending power on ideas and development.

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We’re constantly tweaking the spread factors, but here are some screenshots from mid 18th century in a hands-off game from this morning.

This is the institutions mapmode, where green are provinces that have all the enabled institutions, and yellow are don’t have them all.

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And here is the technology mapmode, of the same game.


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Some other aspects that has changed include the following
- New World Native Reforming will give you all institutions that the one you reform from has.
- Trade Companies are available to all technology groups.
- Lots and lots of triggers on western techgroups have been changed to check for specific relevant institutions.
 
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I don't see this system change working at all. There is a reason why the Tech Group mechanic was in all versions of Europa...it results in more historical gameplay. Please give us a menu option to continue to use the tech groups.
 
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I don't see this system change working at all. There is a reason why the Tech Group mechanic was in all versions of Europa...
Now, that's an approach too conservative even for my tastes. Something not being changed since the first part doesn't mean it is good. It might have been for the older builds or developers just didn't have any other concept for that mechanic. Another thing that hasn't been changed since the Europa Universalis Board Game is stability in scale from -3 to 3. This mechanic is literally 23 years old, don't you think it might be a little... outdated?
it results in more historical gameplay. Please give us a menu option to continue to use the tech groups.
How China and India being backward shitholes from start to finish of the game is a realistic mechanic? Gradual tech penalties make much more sense than it seems at the first glance.

I usually try to be distrustful of new mechanics, especially after the Cossacks and Mare Nostrum, but changes announced for this particular expansion made me nothing but optimistic, at least for now.
 
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I don't see this system change working at all. There is a reason why the Tech Group mechanic was in all versions of Europa...it results in more historical gameplay. Please give us a menu option to continue to use the tech groups.
It doesn't force historical gameplay at all.

India/China stay just relevant enough because they always combine in to a few mega nations that can afford all +3 advisers so nobody in western tech bothers to ship their army over because A. A human would rather just eat land next to them, and B. An AI can't manage fleets that well.

Actually I'd say it forces ahistorical gameplay. In multiplayer at least the Indians/Chinese basically BUMRUSH to westernize, then each of them gets a free 1k development just for doing PvE (while all the Europeans have to fight tooth and nail to get to 1k development) and become world powers. Ming/Qing become offensively overpowered, Japan becomes Prussia that you can't strangle in the crip, and Bharat/Mughals become super Ottomans.

So it fails in single player because India/China never get conquered, and it fails in multiplayer because the Indians/Chinese start off weak then become mega strong.
 
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There are plenty of guides on playing Ming without westernizing. Perhaps you could start there if that's what you want to play. I have less knowledge of Indian nations, but from my playthroughs, under the AI, it generally consolidates into 2-4 countries that eventually westernize between 1600 and 1700 without rushing exploration.

Qing China lost the opium wars against GB and a coalition of western powers. Even though they had gunpowder technology, they lacked Western ship construction and military organization more than 100 years after Western contact. If anything, the current tech group system should be in place and westernization should be reorganized to take longer...it does represent a complete reorganization of society, after all.

Now, that's an approach too conservative even for my tastes. Something not being changed since the first part doesn't mean it is good. It might have been for the older builds or developers just didn't have any other concept for that mechanic. Another thing that hasn't been changed since the Europa Universalis Board Game is stability in scale from -3 to 3. This mechanic is literally 23 years old, don't you think it might be a little... outdated?

Don't get me wrong, I've been playing EU4 since 1.8. Since starting, I've found every change since to be reasonable with the exception of treasure fleets. That change came with a couple of ways to get around it: disable the DLC or take passive inflation reduction. My point about the mechanic's age is that EU is in its 4th major incarnation, meaning it has been rebuilt from the ground up 3 times. In all this time, no one changed the tech group mechanic...why? Increasing complexity doesn't necessarily make a better gameplay mechanic.

How China and India being backward shitholes from start to finish of the game is a realistic mechanic? Gradual tech penalties make much more sense than it seems at the first glance.

I disagree. This can be better modeled under the current system with higher tech penalties for Indian and Chinese tech groups while increasing their starting tech levels.
 
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I'm pretty late to the party here, but I've been seriously wondering about Institution spread to distant provinces of the same nation.
Here's what I'm specifically talking about: We've been told that Institutions will spread to neighbouring provinces including across one seazone, but what about the case where a nation (usually player controlled obv.) grabs land in or near Europe, while having it's main body far away? Or alternatively the less obviously exploitative cases where a nation starts in Europe but then colonises and moves capital to the new world like the typical Navarre/Granada strategies?

Logically it seems to me that if a nation knows about an institution in just one of its provinces, it should be possible for it to spread to other provinces in the same nation even if they're on the other side of the world, since obviously the nation has some kind of infrastructure. Yet, I haven't noticed any indication that this will be possible. As far as I can tell, the comments about institution spread have only mentioned nearby provinces, independently of owner, as well as all provinces of an embracing nation.
 
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- Trade Companies are available to all technology groups.
How will this affect colonization and swapping culture/religion? As an Asian islander nation I want my culture and religion to spread without having to always kill the natives.
 
Wow, this is really interesting! It's certainly renewed my interested in EUIV. Question: Can you link AI behaviour to this? To get more historicity, we could have the AI more or less likely to adopt certain institutions. It would also be nice to have the institutions offer both a benefit and a cost/penalty of some sort.
 
To all the people complaining about how china needs to have some buffs if they start with equal base tech speed as europe and most of rotw then they are actually ahead 10% from celestial empire and another 10% in adm tech from their religion so ming might be one of he first to get ideas (that are also cheaper from their traditions) and should easily get at least the colonialism institution(as a player since i think ming with their isolationist policies should not take colonial ideas).
That would lead to a china thats early game significantly ahead and only falls behind when nations with a more openminded approach to new ideas accept new institutions while ming hangs on to its traditions.
So i will make a bold claim in saying that ming is going to be stronk if not too stronk once that patch hits.
 
To all the people complaining about how china needs to have some buffs if they start with equal base tech speed as europe and most of rotw then they are actually ahead 10% from celestial empire and another 10% in adm tech from their religion so ming might be one of he first to get ideas (that are also cheaper from their traditions) and should easily get at least the colonialism institution(as a player since i think ming with their isolationist policies should not take colonial ideas).
That would lead to a china thats early game significantly ahead and only falls behind when nations with a more openminded approach to new ideas accept new institutions while ming hangs on to its traditions.
So i will make a bold claim in saying that ming is going to be stronk if not too stronk once that patch hits.

Have you played in East Asia recently? It's bad enough as it is that Ming starts eating everything as soon as their first ruler dies. Which is usually in the first 10~20 years; in other words; far too quickly for anyone in the area to have even a remote chance.

These changes are going to make Ming borderline unstoppable; and the Manchruians [Who; as Hordes; start with -50% tech] completely unplayable unless Ming loses the Mandate. Which will be harder to do if they are paying less for Tech thus have more ADM available for stability.

Still; Ming isn't benefiting as much as the New World natives; who are getting their initial technology discount slashed by 100%~200%.
 
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I did say possibly too stronk but i am also pretty sure that ddrjake will not let hordes become unplayable.
on the issue of ming eating everything they really need to develop a seperate ai for china to model the isolationism and the china is the center of the world so we need not the rest of the world mentality of ming dynasty.
 
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I did say possibly too stronk but i am also pretty sure that ddrjake will not let hordes become unplayable.
on the issue of ming eating everything they really need to develop a seperate ai for china to model the isolationism and the china is the center of the world so we need not the rest of the world mentality of ming dynasty.
Perhaps a different AI behaviour for different tech/culture groups?
 
So with Feudalism, the only way for nations that start without it to get it is to wait for it to spread from a neighboring power or reforming off of said power? There's no way for say, the Aztecs to spontaneously develop feudalism?
 
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I don't see this system change working at all. There is a reason why the Tech Group mechanic was in all versions of Europa...it results in more historical gameplay. Please give us a menu option to continue to use the tech groups.

The tech group system is the most broken, deterministic mechanic in EU4. Because of it we had 'strategies' like colonizing Ming trying to 'reach' a Western colony to 'westernize'.

The new tech system more accurately represents the slow decline of the 'rest of the world' and large empires like the Ottomans, while small European states like the Netherlands and HRE principalities are able to adopt institutions quickly and stay current in tech.

I would only keep 'westernization' in the game if they reworked it to be the westernization of your military.
 
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