• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 26th of October 2021

Hello everyone, and be welcome! In today’s DD we are going to take a look at different topics of the Origins Immersion Pack, and 1.32 patch: the new Judaism mechanics, more new mission trees all along Africa, and the setup changes we’ve done to the region. So, it will be content-heavy, then.

Let’s start with the new Judaism mechanics. It was one major religion lacking mechanics at this point of the game, so we thought that now it would be a good moment to handle it. Semien is the only country that can spawn with Judaism early game, while it can also be adopted by one of the most important countries in Origins, Ethiopia. And on a side note, as it was HEAVILY requested by you in the previous DD, we were reassured that the work would be appreciated!

How we have designed it, Judaism works very similar to Protestantism, as it has 3 slots for Torah Aspects, each one costing 100 points of Faith Power. Those points are gained at a rate of 10% of your monarch points per month, minus a modifier depending on your religious unity.

Jewish Semien.jpg


Torah Aspects are split into three categories (Administrative, Diplomatic, and Military), and each category has 3 slots to choose from, giving your country some benefits and modifiers, that are fully shown in a tooltip if you hover over them:

ADM Aspects unlock the use of the ‘Celebrate Festival’ button, which has different effects depending on the ADM Aspect you have chosen. The ‘Celebrate Festival’ action costs 200 Faith Power. The three aspects give you following modifiers:
  • -2 National Unrest modifier, and using ‘Celebrate Festival’ gives +1 Stability.
  • -5% Technology Cost modifier, and using ‘Celebrate Festival’ gives +20 Reform Progress, +5 Legitimacy (or equivalent), and +5 Claim Strength of Heir.
  • -0.5 Interest Per Annum modifier, and using ‘Celebrate Festival’ gives 0.3 Years of Income, and reduces Inflation by 1.

ADM Aspect.jpg


DIP Aspects manipulate the relations your people have with the Abrahamic religions and vice versa. Each aspect gives a passive bonus as well as their modifiers:
  • +2 Tolerance of the True Faith, all Jewish Provinces have no culture penalties.
  • +2 Tolerance of Heathens, all Christian and Muslim provinces have no effect on the Religious Unity of your country.
  • -10% Development Cost, all Non-Theocratic Christian and Muslim countries gain +35 Opinion of you.

DIP Aspect.png


MIL Aspects modify the military strength of the country and affect the generation of Faith Power. The modifiers are the following:
  • -15% Land Attrition, during war you get +10% (20% in defensive wars) Manpower Recovery Speed and +5% (10% in defensive wars) Faith Power
  • +25% Fort Defense, gain +2 Siege Progress if you siege your own fallen forts, gain +15 Faith Power for every occupied enemy fort
  • +5% Land and Navy Morale, winning battles decreases War Exhaustion by 0.05, winning wars gives +50 Faith Power

MIL Aspect.jpg


On top of that, we have created a set of new flavor events for Jewish countries. Some of their topics are the reconstruction of the Third Temple, making the ruler choose some things during Sabbath, Abrahamic religions converting to Judaism, and about the figure of the Messiah as their topics. Others are centered around the celebrations, so you can have a proper Bar Mitzvah for your heir, and 3 celebrations around the year: Pesach, Shavuot, and Sukkot.

Third Temple event.jpg


Pesach Event.jpg


Now let’s take a look at the setup changes we’ve done for 1.32, along with some more new mission trees. Here we’ve got 4 new regional mission trees (West Africa, Central Africa, Horn of Africa, and East Africa), so every country in Sub-Saharan Africa will have either a mission tree specific to them, or one of the new regional trees, and we’ve also added 5 more ‘minor’ mission trees (Jolof, Mossi, Hausa, Oyo and Adal), as we had some extra development time, and we decided that more content would be best. So, let’s go region by region, then.

Setup West Africa.jpg


In West Africa we’ve made a few changes. From west to east, Macina is no longer a starting country. However, it can spawn as a revolter after Fulani culture expands to the provinces of Termes, Wagadu and Baghena (at game start, in northern Mali and SW Timbuktu), and it can also be formed by a country with Fulani culture (Great Fulo, for instance). Then we have divided the former Mossi tag into three new ones: Yatenga, Wagadugu and Fada N’Gourma. We could have created more, but we decided to use the same criteria as for Hausan countries, to not have too many OPM’s in the region. Finally, we have created the Wadai Emirate at the east of Lake Chad and Yao. Our intention here is to have a continuum of inhabited provinces from the Atlantic to the Indian Oceans, after both Great Fulo and Funj spawn by event, portraying the traditional trade route of Darfur corridor.

All countries in this region without a specific mission tree will have a new, generic one. It has 3 different paths, a military one, other economic, and the third one religious. The first two are linked so you have to complete missions in both branches to advance to the final missions on the tree, having as their main objective to assert your country as the powerhouse in West Africa. Meanwhile, the third mission set is in reality two, as Islamic and Fetishist countries will have different paths; Muslims will aim to impose their faith as the only one in the region, while Fetishists will aim to establish a syncretic traditional religion in their country.

West Africa missions.jpg


Now let’s take a look at the minor mission trees we added in this region. The first one is for Jolof. The first two columns are about pushing Mali out of West Africa, replacing them and establishing an empire there. Additionally, you also aim to contact the Europeans and make a deal with them. Apart from that, we wanted to portray their specific government form, with Jolof being ‘primus inter pares’ of some smaller kingdoms. Because of that, they now have a unique government reform to represent the kingdom confederacy Jolof used to be, so now these ‘petty kingdoms’ are three ‘estate privileges', which represent the decentralization of Jolof. The third column in the mission tree requests you to centralize by taking certain privileges. Centralizing the state requires you to have at least 2 stability and a lot of estate loyalty with the chieftains. If you centralize you will automatically lose one stab and a good chunk of estates loyalty.


Jolof.png

Jolof Privilege 1.png
Jolof Privilege 2.png
Jolof Privilege 3.png


For the Mossi states, we have a common mission tree for the three countries, but also for the Mossi tag if you are able to form it by decision. Their mission focus is pretty straight forward: Conquer West Africa! The "Invade" missions will immediately loot important cities and give you all of its gold.

Mossi.png


Forming Mossi will trigger one event later on and add two missions to your tree about their government form. Unlike Jolof's Confederacy, the Mossi Confederal Kingdom is more beneficial. It gives you access to the Tribal Federation mechanic if you have Cradle of Civilization and unlocks a bunch of new decisions for you too. The effects of the decisions are not instant however, as they will always take about 6 months before being in effect. In addition, you have to ‘pay’ in legitimacy and local autonomy. Finally, completing the ‘Centralize the Confederacy’ mission allows you to break out of this government reform or reinforce it even more through an event choice.

Mossi 1.png
Mossi 2.png
Mossi 3.png


Hausan missions have the same scope as the Mossi ones, so you can have them as one of their starting countries, or if you form the Hausa tag. They are about the conquest of the other Hausa states. ‘Unite the Cities’ requires you to be either Hausa or Sokoto. To get help with the early phase you can request militaristic aid from allies through the mission ‘Form Alliances"’. Hausa's mission ‘Develop the Cities’ revolves around the 7 cities which were founded by the 7 different Hausa rulers. Completing this mission will give every one of these 7 cities a unique province modifier for 10 years, reflecting the history and role of these cities. ‘Resolve Internal Issues’ will enable a decision for you, which allows you to get these bonuses for these 7 cities every 20 years again. ‘Contact with the Fulani’ triggers an event for you, which makes Fulani into an accepted culture. Through this you are allowed to form Sokoto, and then it will replace the fourth column with three missions, which are about the Jihad in West Africa. The last reward for converting all the provinces to Islam is a permanent +2 Tolerance of True Faith and -0.5% Prestige Decay.

Hausa 1.png

Hausa 2.png


Finally we have the Oyo mission tree. First column is about their historical usage of cavalry. As such you are encouraged to trade with the Muslims. After that you unlock a special mercenary company for them. The mission ‘Chaaaarge!!’ will disable the Army Professionalism cost from this cavalry merc company. The remaining columns are about pushing the Muslims out of West Africa and becoming the dominant power of there. Oyo is also the defender of the Fetishistic faith (though not really a defender, but you get the idea). As such, the province Ife has gained a specific bonus. Oyo's missions are also special in their requirements, as they allow progress through tributaries too! It’s done through a special government reform which allows you to do that. Then, the mission ‘Reform the Government’ will unlock an estate privilege which allows tributaries even if they are no longer a tribal country. It should be noted that if you revoke the privilege at any time your tributaries will break free, so use this one with caution.

Oyo 1.png

Oyo 2.png
Oyo 3.png
Oyo 4.png
Oyo 5.png


Now let’s move to Congo and Central Africa. Here we felt comfortable with the setup, as it allows a diverse gameplay with different countries, with Kongo as the main powerhouse, as you already know. What we’ve done is adding a new mission tree for the other countries in both regions. They are mainly in three branches. In the war/economic branch, you start preparing for war, and the idea is that at first it’s used to boost your economy, through raiding. This is represented with a mission requiring you to have multiple war reparations. Once you are able to maintain and train a proper army you start expanding to the point of becoming the military power of the region (with a mission requiring you to have the biggest army around), and then you can progress to become an empire. The second branch is diplomatic. It starts by getting strong allies to secure your position (the mission actually requires for them to be strong, or being either Kongo, Kilwa or Mutapa), then gaining the trust of the allies, then once your position is secure you turn to aggressive diplomacy with the missions requiring you to have vassals and then (tied to the war path too) going to a point of inflicting a crushing blow to a rival to humiliate them (which is in itself a requirement for becoming an empire). The third branch is the religious one. You first start as a fetishist gathering pokem... I mean, cults, and then the idea is that you get in contact with the Muslim countries (tied to the alliances missions of the diplomacy branch) from whom you can get valuable info. Then, it's just expanding your religion, first by going to war against any country that borders you but is not your religion, and then by having to convert provinces.

Central Africa.png


Then we have the Horn of Africa. Here we have added another new tag, Ogadeen, portraying the Somali clans that inhabit that space. This regional mission tree revolves around religious clashes. Your aim is to conquer and convert the heathens, uniting the tags of your faith, and become the main power of the region. After completing the final mission of those branches, ‘Save the Horn’, you will get the permanent modifier ‘The Holy Horn’, giving you +50% Religious Unity in reward for your efforts. In parallel to that, you’ve got some missions with an economic scope, that aims at your country being the main trade power in the Indian Ocean.

Horn of Africa.png


In the same region we have the last ‘minor’ mission tree, that of Adal. Their missions are mostly focused on giving Ethiopia a real fight to deal with. This is especially emphasized by a mission reward early on, ‘Restore the Old Mosque’, that is about the mosque Masjid al-Qiblatayn in Zeila, one of the oldest mosques in Africa; so, developing Zeila will give you a great Mosque there. ‘Reach the Turks’ is about establishing relations with the Ottomans. This mission can be completed by having any kind of regiment at the coast of the Mediterranean or in a province held by a Turkish country. It will trigger an event chain, not limited to the Ottomans, as it will seek out for the strongest Turkish power in Anatolia, that will eventually give some Janissary mercenaries; should there be no Turkish power at all in Anatolia in the rare occasion that the wet dream of a Byzantophile comes true, then Adal will ask Mamluks for help instead, unlocking the Mamluks mercs instead of the Janissaries. The rest of the mission tree is pretty straight-forward: unite the Somali clans, eliminate Ethiopia, convert the Horn of Africa, and get a connection to West Africa.

Adal 1.png

Adal 2.png
Adal 3.png
Adal 4.png


Let’s finish with the East Africa mission tree. Here we have focused on trade, regional expansion and strategic one in trade ports as main focuses. The objective is, obviously, becoming a great power (who would have noticed that regarding EU4!). However, one of the last missions of the tree is a funny one, as you’ll be aiming at reversing the trade visit that Zheng He made to the region a few decades ago, establishing a strong trade presence in the Chinese region trade ports.

East Africa.png


Zheng He Reversed.png


So that’s all for today, which I think is a lot, as we covered a bunch of very different content all across the continent. Actually, this is the last DD delivered from CD Team, as the next DD’s before release will be focusing on the new Art in Origins Immersion Pack, the new Achievements we’ve created, and the changelog (be prepared for it, as it will have hundreds of fixes that will go live with 1.32 patch, literally!). As always, your feedback will be appreciated; just be civil, and take into account that some numbers may be tweaked before release. See you!
 

Attachments

  • Mossi 1.png
    Mossi 1.png
    176,4 KB · Views: 0
  • Mossi 2.png
    Mossi 2.png
    338 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
  • 94Like
  • 21Love
  • 10
  • 5
  • 4
Reactions:
If you want an Ironman run, you can start with Ethiopia, release Semien as vassal and play as them.
It would be awesome if you add some jewish events for europe for example an event which converts a province to judaist religion in europe and the ottomans has unique
event which converts south makedonia to judaist you can increase the chance of that event
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:
If you want an Ironman run, you can start with Ethiopia, release Semien as vassal and play as them.
@Aldaron and other Dev's on this DLC,
A totally off-the-wall suggestion based on this custom-game-vs-Ethiopia>Semien-vassal release option --

- What if Paradox did a sort-of "mod" like change to add numerous game-start options that are pre-built/pre-packaged/selected inside the Custom game area of EU4? What I mean by this, when you select the "Custom" game button and move into that area, to then have a list of pre-built options that are Custom-game builds. Could even be "custom game of the month" along with other prior custom games of the month or something. I realize that players have a wide-ranging option of how-to-start-a-custom-game, but you may find even more initial customer satisfaction internationally among new-to-EU4 players by coming up with something like this, where instead of the standard menu of "Rise of the Ottomans - 1444" at normal game start page, in the Custom Game area you start to make it a blend of what it is now, with community-wide suggested Custom build starts to the game, with maybe a short backstory of "why it matters" - such as how to build a good Judaism nation start in a region that historically had that community (such as starting in a Province in modern-Northern Iraq/Kurdish area). Or maybe it's a custom all-Hawaii merged start (instead of waiting for King Kamehameha to do it later) to see how you fare with an early 1444 start as consolidated Hawaii, and same for many other would-be nations that consolidate in the future -- to instead play them as a formed-up nation earlier in timeline with 1444 start instead. Such as - how does a consolidated France fare if you start in 1444 with such, instead of delaying it. Early Prussia. Maybe early "13 Colonies" in 1444 - how much more dominant does a formed up USA become in contrast to Europe if accelerated in timeline. This gets into combinations of niche history options (such as Judaism starts in select pockets of the world where the population could arguably have been large enough to "proclaim independence" and operate an Israeli state early), or it could be a riff on alternate-history events, but I think you Dev's could start to make the Custom Game page into a much broader series of pre-built options that also generates an EU4 fanbase on recurring additions to what comes in as "Custom Game of the Month" (or even Custom Game of the Week if popular enough).
 
  • 2
Reactions:
It would be awesome if you add some jewish events for europe for example an event which converts a province to judaist religion in europe and the ottomans has unique
event which converts south makedonia to judaist you can increase the chance of that event
We might review them in the future now that we have more Jewish stuff. No promises, though.

@Aldaron and other Dev's on this DLC,
A totally off-the-wall suggestion based on this custom-game-vs-Ethiopia>Semien-vassal release option --

- What if Paradox did a sort-of "mod" like change to add numerous game-start options that are pre-built/pre-packaged/selected inside the Custom game area of EU4? What I mean by this, when you select the "Custom" game button and move into that area, to then have a list of pre-built options that are Custom-game builds. Could even be "custom game of the month" along with other prior custom games of the month or something. I realize that players have a wide-ranging option of how-to-start-a-custom-game, but you may find even more initial customer satisfaction internationally among new-to-EU4 players by coming up with something like this, where instead of the standard menu of "Rise of the Ottomans - 1444" at normal game start page, in the Custom Game area you start to make it a blend of what it is now, with community-wide suggested Custom build starts to the game, with maybe a short backstory of "why it matters" - such as how to build a good Judaism nation start in a region that historically had that community (such as starting in a Province in modern-Northern Iraq/Kurdish area). Or maybe it's a custom all-Hawaii merged start (instead of waiting for King Kamehameha to do it later) to see how you fare with an early 1444 start as consolidated Hawaii, and same for many other would-be nations that consolidate in the future -- to instead play them as a formed-up nation earlier in timeline with 1444 start instead. Such as - how does a consolidated France fare if you start in 1444 with such, instead of delaying it. Early Prussia. Maybe early "13 Colonies" in 1444 - how much more dominant does a formed up USA become in contrast to Europe if accelerated in timeline. This gets into combinations of niche history options (such as Judaism starts in select pockets of the world where the population could arguably have been large enough to "proclaim independence" and operate an Israeli state early), or it could be a riff on alternate-history events, but I think you Dev's could start to make the Custom Game page into a much broader series of pre-built options that also generates an EU4 fanbase on recurring additions to what comes in as "Custom Game of the Month" (or even Custom Game of the Week if popular enough).
For that we have mods and it is something for the community to do. Sorry to disappoint you.
 
  • 4Like
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
Nations like Khmer, Majapahit, the Mamluks, Novgorod, Poland and the Bahmanis all collapsed during the game's timeline, yet they're nowhere near as underpowered as Korea is.
Actually Novgorod also collapses faster in EU4 than in reality. But really it's because EU4 doesn't handle delayed collapse very well. All these collapsed yes but they were strong in the early era but then collapsed later in the time frame. Korea however was fairly consistent in this time frame. And it did almost fall, the fact that it did not is one of those few moments that really comes down to the genius of one man.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Actually Novgorod also collapses faster in EU4 than in reality. But really it's because EU4 doesn't handle delayed collapse very well. All these collapsed yes but they were strong in the early era but then collapsed later in the time frame. Korea however was fairly consistent in this time frame. And it did almost fall, the fact that it did not is one of those few moments that really comes down to the genius of one man.
None of what you just said refutes my point.

Korea however was fairly consistent in this time frame.
But it's NOT in-game. Which is what I'm trying to say here. I don't want to see Korea getting wiped off the map by 1600 9 times out of 10 because it's not historical.
 
Will there be an on_action for when a torah aspect is chosen? Great to see judaism finally getting mechanics!

Also on the topic of religion, for native reformable religions like mayan, would it be possible to separate the reform mechanics from the transport-only navies that primitives get? I ask because there have been several attempts in anbennar development to take advantage of religion reform for non-natives, but the lack of a navy has prevented their implementation. Currently there is one line of moddable code that adds reforms and takes away navies: "religious_reforms = yes". If this could be split into "religious_reforms = yes" and "primitive_navies = yes", that would open up a lot of possibilities for the mod community given how customizable religious reforms are otherwise. All the idiosyncrasies of native reforms can be overcome except for the navies.
@Pavía @Ogele Still hoping against hope for a reply here. Anbennar already uses migration to represent non-native countries. Would be fantastic if we could do the same with reformable religions.
 
It would be awesome if you add some jewish events for europe for example an event which converts a province to judaist religion in europe and the ottomans has unique
event which converts south makedonia to judaist you can increase the chance of that event
Yea i hope they fix the ottomans event since it already exists in Europe. The problem is theres not a lot of other options in Europe, the only other option i found would be a Kathrine Vogel of poland event. She was a catholic polish woman who converted to judaism and went before the sjem to advocate for converting.

She was burned at the steak, but seeing as she went befor the sjem to advocate conversion i think you could have an event where you could get 3 choices:

Burn her - gain tolerance of the true faith
Free her- gain tolerance of heathens
Convert with her - convert to jewish

Than the player would have the option to convert if they want.

There's not really any good times were jews became an outright majority in a European province other than selanik. But this polish event seems like a good way to bring the option. Plus its in Poland the heart of the European jewish community.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
None of what you just said refutes my point.


But it's NOT in-game. Which is what I'm trying to say here. I don't want to see Korea getting wiped off the map by 1600 9 times out of 10 because it's not historical.
That's because Ai in the game play to win, or rather to challenge the players. In reality blobbing was to keep yourself from becoming the victim of someone else but the goal was rarely conquest for conquests sake but rather to increase wealth and power and wealth ti protect the power and wealth you already have.
The AI can be careless in a way most rea rulers weren't because to playr challenge it doesn't matter who wins if tw empires fight an oen conquers the other it's a bigger blob and a bigger player challenge.
 
That's because Ai in the game play to win, or rather to challenge the players. In reality blobbing was to keep yourself from becoming the victim of someone else but the goal was rarely conquest for conquests sake but rather to increase wealth and power and wealth ti protect the power and wealth you already have.
The AI can be careless in a way most rea rulers weren't because to playr challenge it doesn't matter who wins if tw empires fight an oen conquers the other it's a bigger blob and a bigger player challenge.
I'm having a hard time understanding what this jumbled word salad of an answer is supposed to mean.

Yet from what I can decipher, you claimed that in reality countries blobbed to prevent conquest, which is an extremely niche reason. The Japanese invasions of Korea weren't due to an existential threat, but to instead centralise the state through the concentration of Daimyo manpower on an external enemy. The Manchu/Qing invasions were for Korean tribute.

None of them were cause by this supposed 'blob or be blobbed into' situation you claim.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I wish there were more changes around "Kanem Bornu". It really should just be Bornu, Kanem Bornu ceased to exist after the Yao was established... in Kanem, which lies outside Bornu's borders. Also, Kawar and Damagaram should belong to Bornu at the start, not Air. I would like to see Kanem Bornu as a formable for Bornu/Yao/Wadai, would be interesting to see.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
this is lowkey offensive,like they just shove names of holidays and give whatever this or that,this is lowkey dumb,like instead of doing research they just shoved bonuses and other shit from other religions,this is offensive,shitty systm,and broken as heck,fix it please,it's litrlly dumb
If you check the dev only responses, you will see that IT HAS ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED.

Others had already pointed out before you and they were DEFINITELY NICER about it.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I'm having a hard time understanding what this jumbled word salad of an answer is supposed to mean.

Yet from what I can decipher, you claimed that in reality countries blobbed to prevent conquest, which is an extremely niche reason. The Japanese invasions of Korea weren't due to an existential threat, but to instead centralise the state through the concentration of Daimyo manpower on an external enemy. The Manchu/Qing invasions were for Korean tribute.

None of them were cause by this supposed 'blob or be blobbed into' situation you claim.
War was waged to protect your own power. When Japan invaded Korea it was to direct all those trained soldiers they had built up during the sengoku period against someone else.

Here this explains it better than I can:

Except I think self preservation should be a stronger factor than the author of the article does.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I wish there were more changes around "Kanem Bornu". It really should just be Bornu, Kanem Bornu ceased to exist after the Yao was established... in Kanem, which lies outside Bornu's borders. Also, Kawar and Damagaram should belong to Bornu at the start, not Air. I would like to see Kanem Bornu as a formable for Bornu/Yao/Wadai, would be interesting to see.
Absolutely. I might add that the neglect for the Lake Chad area is really conspicuous in this DLC. The oldest center of Islamic civilization in West/Central Africa, an actual organized state with a large urban population... certainly deserving of a mission tree and some more attention from the developers for accuracy.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Absolutely. I might add that the neglect for the Lake Chad area is really conspicuous in this DLC. The oldest center of Islamic civilization in West/Central Africa, an actual organized state with a large urban population... certainly deserving of a mission tree and some more attention from the developers for accuracy.
The Wadai Empire (or Wadai Sultanate) would be an appropriate way to present a good portion of modern-day Chad's origins.
 
The Judaism religion looks great! ))
But in the religious tree of the ADM Aspects is written "Sichchat tora" it should be "Simchat tora"
Fortunately, it's been addressed in this quote:

First is first, thank of all you for the great reception of this DD, for your kind comments, and for the useful feedback received!









As we said in other thread, there's lot of countries that would have deserved more content in this Immersion Pack, as Sub-Saharan Africa is so wide and diverse... But we had a calendar for developing it, so we also had to be selective with the content to be included. Because of that, we designed the regional mission trees, so at least the countries lacking specific content will have some interest and engaging flavor (hopefully, you'll be the ones judging it!).

Regarding Judaism, we've setup the religion mechanics, and it's working more or less as we wanted; that was our main focus. From here, perhaps we can think on expand Jewish content on the next patches.

We will rework Jerusalem monument to fit better with the new Judaism features, although I'm not completely sure if it will be included in the release of 1.32, or in one of the following patches, TBH - our priority was to have Judaism mechanics fully functional and more or less balanced, on the one hand, and have a good balance of the new monuments, on the other. I'll do my best to include that rework ASAP, trust me.

Regarding Ethiopian minors, they will get the regional missions for the countries in the Horn of Africa. As Ethiopia is now a reformable tag, they can access its mission tree that way.

Well, we also think that we've done quite an advance regarding estates mechanics in this patch. Perhaps we could continue working on them this way for the next version of the game, and rebalance a bit the existing estates; however, we've not taken yet a decision about the specific next steps to be followed, as we're really focusing on this release, and 1.32, as we wanted to fix a lot of issues, and raise our quality standard again.



Thanks a lot for your comments! We'll take a look on your suggestions, specifically those for the Oyo Cavalry mercenary company, as it's a really good one.

No, they aren't separate, new mechanics. What we've done is to create them using the Estates system, and creating interactions with missions, decisions and events to model it more dynamically. So, adding new content, without adding new mechanics, but using the already existing ones.

















First of all, thanks to all of you for your suggestions, again (and specifically to @WhoBob3000 , your feedback was really good and detailed). As my colleague @Aldaron just said, we want to treat Judaism religion with as much respect and correctness as possible. So, we will take into account your very detailed feedback to change a lot of these things ASAP.

Now, commenting some specific issues:
- We're changing 'Hama' for 'Haman'.
- We will include Yom Kippur in the feature, you're completely right about the importance of that feast.
- We're changing 'Sichchat Torah' for 'Simchat Torah'.
- We're changing the chanukiyah for a menorah as the symbol of the religion, and will try to change the icon too.
- We're changing the spelling of the festivals to 'festival of XYZ'.
- We're changing 'Hanukkah Festival' for 'Festival of Rosh haShanah', and 'Rosh Hashanah' for 'Yom Kippur'.
- We're renaming 'Remember the Passover' to 'Remember Passover'.
- Order of Military aspects will be 'Yom Kippur', 'Remember Passover', and 'Purim teachings'.

Regarding other wording issues in the events suggested by WhoBob3000, we will take that into account, although probably not for the release of Origins, as our localization workflow takes some time.

Good suggestion.

I invoke now my colleague @Ogele , as he's the one behind the numbers of the Judaism mechanic.

Yes, they will be getting their own set of ideas. And thanks for your suggestion for the naming, we'll take that into account.
 
Hannukah would make much more sense than Rosh HaShana or Passover as a military aspect considering it is literally celebrating a successful rebellion. Tisha B'Av, which is about remembering the destruction of the Temple, might too (at least until the temple is restored).
 
Just wanted to make sure, you know that Yom Kippur is a fast day, right? Most other Jewish holidays involve feasts or special foods, but not Yom Kippur.

These Judaism ideas could be more thought out really.

Hanukkah should be swapped with Rosh Hashanah for Military-Admin. The story of Hanukkah is one of jewish uprising against the Seleucids, it being "- National Unrest"

Rosh Hashanah on the other hand is joy for the stuff god has given, and is in many ways also a harvest festival, making - unrest more reasonable here. Or heck, if we're talking about people being calmed down from Angryness into less unrest. Yom Kippur would fit from a religious point of view, it being very much about forgiveness.

Next up it's called "Simchat Torah" (but that's probably a spelling error)

And why does Sukkot, the festival where you live/eat in self-built thingies outside your house - interest. Perhaps move Sukkot to be - dev cost, for constructing the sukkahs or settling new lands after the exodus? Or - build cost? And then do Yom Kippur as forgivness i.e. Improve Relation or less AE or something?

Plus calling the Idea "remember the passover" whilst calling the even "pessach" is a bit odd - they're the same thing ater all.

I get having to keep things balanced and not make a Religion OP, but paradox games can also be great vessels for learning, if the buttons kinda fit the religious ideas behind these festivals.

The Judaism religion looks great! ))
But in the religious tree of the ADM Aspects is written "Sichchat tora" it should be "Simchat tora"

Hannukah would make much more sense than Rosh HaShana or Passover as a military aspect considering it is literally celebrating a successful rebellion. Tisha B'Av, which is about remembering the destruction of the Temple, might too (at least until the temple is restored).
Most of the issues and concerns regarding Judaism wording has already been fixed for release version, thanks to the feedback of this thread, and pretty much because of the very detailed and kind post of @WhoBob3000 .

If after the release there are still some of the features or the wording that you might think that can be improved, please use the Bugs or Suggestions subforums to let us know, we'll be reading it. ;)
@Pavía @Ogele - and other Dev's involved with this update,
Up front, know that this comment is ultimately about Ethiopia primarily, and the current default starting Religion for that nation, which is paramount to discuss considering your rework of Africa.

While you Paradox Dev's have received mostly positive comments and praise for the Judaism religion build, I want to offer you a Divergent view in perspective of this update to the game:

- Your work on Judaism and the resultant flexibility to make use of the perks/buffs from that religion, combined with the way all other religions mostly work in terms of gameplay, have all collectively revealed just how limiting a Coptic religion game start is within EU4.

Bear with me, this is about PROCESS or Systems Engineering of the religion's benefits, the perks or buffs and "how to get them."

If you have never thought of this before, your portrayal of the Coptic religion amounts to: A Mission Tree.
Coptic Faith is a Provincial-conquering system, much like a Mission Tree. And only a Mission Tree without flexibility as to how/where/why you get perks and buffs.
Whereas, most all other faiths simply require the game to progress and build up power in multiple, diverse ways that has no requirement to gain Provinces (especially not Key Provinces).
Examples:
- Catholic: improve relations with Papal State = higher rate to get buffs, pay into system for favor, do events for Cardinal (even if nefarious), gain more provinces (an option as contrast, not mandatory) and then more provinces w/more total Development in cumulative total gets better odds for Cardinals and buffing pace. Point is, multiple options/paths to gain buffs, and I didn't even mention all for this religion. And several other religions also have this multi-pronged approach.

But the Coptic faith? Is this the right way to present a religion in EU4, and is this the best way to play-through as that religion? Coptic faith results in a very limited approach, with the hope that one conquers on just the right pathway (just like working a Mission Tree). You don't need to do that with most any other faith - you simply need to survive and grow your stats in various ways (depending on your strengths at the time) to mature your religion's buffs.

My opinion, this upcoming game release has totally forgotten about the default Ethiopia Coptic faith, and you totally missed an opportunity to overhaul the Coptic Religion into a more universally useful religion in line with the other religions that don't need Mission Tree type progress to "grow the faith."
Well, we've not totally forgotten about the Coptic faith. Reworking/rebalancing religions is always a sensitive issue, and it takes time. In this update we've prioritized to add Judaism mechanics, as they were lacking, and to rebalance a bit Catholicism and Reformation, while we've also added 2 monuments that add specific modifiers to Coptic religion, Lalibela Churches, and Etchmiadzin Cathedral.

Will we be reworking it a bit in later patches? Maybe. We've got some ideas about using state privileges for it, as we've done with other religions in this update (mainly with Fetishists Cults), but we also have in mind some pending rebalance for other religions (as Confucianism), so we'll see how the release goes, and how much time do we have for introducing new changes.
I wish there were more changes around "Kanem Bornu". It really should just be Bornu, Kanem Bornu ceased to exist after the Yao was established... in Kanem, which lies outside Bornu's borders. Also, Kawar and Damagaram should belong to Bornu at the start, not Air. I would like to see Kanem Bornu as a formable for Bornu/Yao/Wadai, would be interesting to see.

Absolutely. I might add that the neglect for the Lake Chad area is really conspicuous in this DLC. The oldest center of Islamic civilization in West/Central Africa, an actual organized state with a large urban population... certainly deserving of a mission tree and some more attention from the developers for accuracy.

The Wadai Empire (or Wadai Sultanate) would be an appropriate way to present a good portion of modern-day Chad's origins.
Well, as I said in other thread, there were some countries/regions that we'd want to rework as well, and one of those is Kanem-Bornu. But TBH, we thought that it was a decent state for 1444, and I think that the new regional mission tree of West Africa fits very well for a game with this country.

Wadai Sultanate was actually added to starting setup in 1444, so c. 1500 we'll have countries covering all the way from Atlantic to Indian Oceans (after Fulo and Funj spawn by events).
@Pavía @Ogele Still hoping against hope for a reply here. Anbennar already uses migration to represent non-native countries. Would be fantastic if we could do the same with reformable religions.
About your questions:

- There won't be an on_action when you choose a torah aspect, but you can add effects in the definition of the torah aspects themselves, which are called when you use the aspect.
- About the native reformable religions issue, that's a question for our programmers, so we'll talk about them to try to have that split in the code.
 
Last edited:
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Most of the issues and concerns regarding Judaism wording has already been fixed for release version, thanks to the feedback of this thread, and pretty much because of the very detailed and kind post of @WhoBob3000 .

If after the release there are still some of the features or the wording that you might think that can be improved, please use the Bugs or Suggestions subforums to let us know, we'll be reading it. ;)

Well, we've not totally forgotten about the Coptic faith. Reworking/rebalancing religions is always a sensitive issue, and it takes time. In this update we've prioritized to add Judaism mechanics, as they were lacking, and to rebalance a bit Catholicism and Reformation, while we've also added 2 monuments that add specific modifiers to Coptic religion, Lalibela Churches, and Etchmiadzin Cathedral.

Will we be reworking it a bit in later patches? Maybe. We've got some ideas about using state privileges for it, as we've done with other religions in this update (mainly with Fetishists Cults), but we also have in mind some pending rebalance for other religions (as Confucianism), so we'll see how the release goes, and how much time do we have for introducing new changes.





Well, as I said in other thread, there were some countries/regions that we'd want to rework as well, and one of those is Kanem-Bornu. But TBH, we thought that it was a decent state for 1444, and I think that the new regional mission tree of West Africa fits very well for a game with this country.

Wadai Sultanate was actually added to starting setup in 1444, so c. 1500 we'll have countries covering all the way from Atlantic to Indian Oceans (after Fulo and Funj spawn by events).

About your questions:

- There won't be an on_action when you choose a torah aspect, but you can add effects in the definition of the torah aspects themselves, which are called when you use the aspect.
- About the native reformable religions issue, that's a question for our programmers, so we'll talk about them to try to have that split in the code.
Thanks for getting back to me! I will keep my fingers crossed