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EU4 - Development Diary - 27th of August 2019

And now for something completely different.

Introducing 1.29: Manchu!

manchu loading screen.png


Think always of your ancestors,
and cultivate virtue.
Always strive to accord with the Mandate,
and seek for yourself many blessings.
Before Yin lost their multitudes,
They were in accord with the High Di.
Look to Yin as you would a mirror,
The great Mandate is not easy to keep.
- The Book of Odes

The 1.29 Manchu update will include not only the long-awaited 64 bit upgrade, but also a hefty chunk of free content for North-East Asia. Over the next few weeks I’ll be laying out what you can expect from the Manchu update; our focus is of course on Manchuria itself, but the update also has a huge impact on Mongolia, China, Japan, Korea, and parts of Central Asia.

Before we get to that, I’ll say a word about how Manchu came to be. Early in the year we set our programmers to work on tech debt (explained here by our own @MatRopert ), while @Groogy and @DDRJake were busy laying out the design for next years’ European update and expansion. With the design for the future at such an early stage it didn’t make sense for Team Content Design (at the time consisting of myself, @Ofaloaf, and @Caligula Caesar) to begin working on Europe just yet. And so we decided to use this time to create a free content update. We had originally planned to release Manchu somewhat earlier in the year, but various factors beyond our control prevented this from happening and we’ve finally secured a September release. While Manchu will contain some bug fixes, it won't contain the quality of life features we've been talking about lately - those will come with the Europe update next year. So to reiterate: the time we spent working on Manchu did not take any time away from our work on the European update.

With that out of the way, let’s talk about China!

Many players, including myself, haven’t been happy with the balance of Mandate of Heaven’s Emperor of China mechanics and the way they affect the experience of playing in East Asia. What we typically see in 1.28 is a perpetually stagnant Ming and by extension a stagnant East Asia. Players are averse to taking the Mandate of Heaven even as Qing because it is seen (somewhat justifiably) as more trouble than it’s worth. Players starting as Ming are offered very little challenge in their campaign.

We decided to use the Manchu update as an opportunity to revisit these mechanics. We want the Mandate to be desirable while still presenting a unique challenge and gameplay experience for both Ming and those who would usurp the Mandate. What follows is a list of the changes we’ve made to Mandate of Heaven’s Empire of China system:
  • Neighboring non-tributary nations no longer cause Mandate loss.
    • This prevents Mandate loss from bordering large nations such as Russia.
    • It also means that nations that take the Mandate from Ming no longer experience crippling Mandate loss from non-tributaries.
    • The Empire will still gain Mandate from having tributaries, so it is still rewarding to surround the Empire with Tributary states.
  • For each 5 loans the Empire loses -0.03 Mandate per month. Bankruptcy causes a -0.05 Mandate loss per month.
    • The Emperor is expected to bring prosperity to China, not poverty and ruin.
    • Opponents of the Empire now have the option of target the Chinese economy in all manner of creative ways in order to reduce its Mandate.
  • Passive Meritocracy decay has been increased to -2 per year
    • In 1.28, simply having low skill advisors is enough to maintain maximum Meritocracy at all times, so there is no need to ever worry about low Meritocracy.
    • This makes Meritocracy a more scarce resource that will take more time to accumulate.
  • For each 5 Corruption, the Empire loses 0.05 Mandate per month
    • Speaks for itself. A corrupt Empire is not a healthy Empire.
  • -100% Mercenary Availability at 0 Mandate changed to -200%
    • At 0 Mandate Ming shouldn’t be able to hire mercenaries. With Ming’s huge forcelimit, any positive modifier to Mercenary Availability (e.g. Administrative Ideas) allows them to hire a large mercenary army.
  • Low Mandate now has a scaling Global Manpower penalty, up to -50% at low Mandate
    • Ming has a gigantic Manpower pool. Wearing it down is difficult, especially when they take Quantity ideas (which again they often do). Their sheer numbers can help them overcome opponents that they historically struggled to defeat.
    • Dynasties in periods of economic or political decline struggled to raise large or disciplined armies. This was another indicator that the Dynasty was at risk of losing the Mandate.
  • High Mandate now reduces monthly War Exhaustion, up to -0.03 per month
    • This rewards a strong Empire with the ability to sustain itself in wars for long periods of time. It broadcasts that attacking the Empire at a time of strength may be unwise.
    • When a dynasty is perceived to clearly and firmly possess the Mandate, the people are assured that the hardships of war will pass and the Emperor will be victorious.
  • Two new Ruler Personalities have been added, exclusive to the Emperor of China. Humane gives a bonus to Mandate while Petty reduces it.
    • Based on the Confucian concept of ‘ren’. A morally virtuous Emperor is the center of a harmonious Empire.
  • Not owning and controlling Beijing, Nanjing, and Canton reduces Mandate by -0.05 per month each.
    • This adds new tactical and strategic elements to both playing and fighting the Empire. You can damage the Empire’s Mandate by sieging key cities, and even further by taking them in a peace deal. The Emperor must take care to defend these key provinces.
  • The Unguarded Nomadic Frontier disaster will now account for the development of the subjects of Horde nations
    • It is no longer necessary for a Horde that wishes to challenge the Empire to directly control massive swathes of land. Vassals and Marches can be used to increase your power for this purpose.
  • Low Meritocracy now causes Corruption, up to 0.1 per year at 0 Meritocracy. High Meritocracy reduces corruption to the same degree.
    • A player-led Qing or Ming will likely be expansionist. This reduces the impact of corruption from territories. And can be a means to reduce Mandate loss from high corruption.
    • Meritocracy represents the efficiency of the Confucian bureaucracy. Corrupt bureaucrats (which in Ming was extremely common) did not administer efficiently.
  • The Empire gains 0.05 Mandate per month while using the Unite China CB, and new Emperors gain +0.05 monthly Mandate for 20 years. Countries that seize the Mandate begin with 60 Mandate and 60 Meritocracy.
    • This helps countries that have recently gained the Mandate an early source of Mandate, a common issue when playing as Qing or Yuan.
  • We’ve rebalanced a number of Chinese historical events. I won’t go into the details now but an important focus was adding Mandate effects to many event options.

In addition, we’ve designed two new highly impactful event chains to shake up the Chinese world.

dd_ming_crisis.jpg

The Mandate is not easy to keep;
May it not end in your persons.


Though the Ming dynasty was ultimately defeated by the Manchu conquest, its collapse had already begun before the invasion. Disaster and mismanagement within the Ming dynasty were the catalyst for a major peasant rebellion in the 1630’s led by Li Zicheng. Li Zicheng was extremely successful; his forces won many battles against the Ming armies and he captured Beijing in 1644, proclaiming himself Emperor of the Shun Dynasty. Only then did the newly-united Manchus invade, initially under the pretext of defeating Li Zicheng’s rebellion. We’ll talk more about the Manchu invasion next week, for now we’re interested in Ming’s internal crisis.

The Crisis of the Ming Dynasty is a new Disaster that will challenge Ming players and very often lead to the collapse of an AI-controlled Ming. The Disaster can begin any time after the Age of Discovery if Ming has low Mandate or has lost the Mandate entirely. When the Disaster hits they’ll immediately receive penalties to Land Morale, Technology Cost, and Global Unrest, as well as taking a flat hit to their Stability, Mandate, and Corruption. Events will periodically spawn Peasant rebels. This is going to be a very difficult time for Ming. Ming must restore their Mandate by any means necessary or face dire consequences. If rebels manage to occupy 10 provinces in a single Chinese region (North China, South China, and Xinan), an event will fire that immediately spawns breakaway nations. In Xinan the Yunnan Protectorate (represented by the nation of Dali) will demand self-rule, which can be accepted at the cost of Mandate or denied at the cost of a bloody war. In the South, local governors will take matters into their own hands, defying the authority of the Empire and raising their own armies to restore order. Wu and Yue will be spawned on the map, and once again the choice to accept their independence or fight against them will be presented. In North China there will be no such choice. Rebels will seize power in the region and declare that Ming has lost the Mandate of Heaven, proclaiming the Shun Dynasty and immediately declaring war on Ming for the Mandate. The southern revolter states can play a role in the rise of the Qing later in the game, representing the Three Feudatories which we’ll talk about more next week. Ming players must now guard their Mandate jealously lest they fall into ruin and despair.

dd_tumu_crisis.jpg

In this playthrough Esen Taishi managed to get himself killed in battle, but Kundelung Kirghiz has taken up his mantle.

Another challenge to Ming rule came much earlier in our time frame. By 1444 the Oirats had consolidated their power under the ambitious warlord Esen Taishi (more about the Oirats next week). In 1449 he led an invasion of China, captured the Emperor in battle, and came close to winning the siege of Beijing. These events are known as the Tumu Crisis, and they’re now an event chain in EU4. As the Oirats begin the game refusing to pay tribute to the Ming Emperor, they often find themselves in an early war. When this happens Ming receives an event informing them that the Emperor has decided to lead his armies personally, converting the Yingzong Emperor into a (very inept) general. If the Oirats defeat a Ming army commanded by the Yingzong Emperor in a battle an event will immediately fire granting the Oirats combat and siege bonuses, while Ming receives an event reduces their Mandate and Stability, as well as forcing them into a temporary Regency Council. From here the goal for the Oirats is to capture Beijing before the Emperor dies and before Ming appoints a new Emperor to the throne. Should the Oirats succeed the rewards are great: they’ll immediately occupy every province in the North China region owned and controlled by Ming, resulting in a huge amount of warscore which they can use to secure an advantageous peace deal. The capture of Beijing will also cause huge Mandate loss for Ming, though their beloved Emperor will be returned safely to the throne. By pursuing the goals presented in this event chain an Oirat player can make a powerful opening move in their campaign, potentially paving the way for a restored Yuan dynasty.

We’ve had a long time to observe the impact of our work in this region and we’re very satisfied with the results. In 1.29 Ming survives “intact” to the end of the game in less than 1⁄3 of hands-off tests, with the remainder of cases having a variety of results such as a powerful Qing dynasty, a perpetually shattered China, the rise of a new Chinese dynasty (Shun and Wu are the most common), and opportunistic European conquests that exploit China’s internal troubles. I’ve even seen Mughal China a couple of times. The result here is a much more dynamic and much less predictable political situation in East Asia. In the hands of a player Ming is still by far the most powerful nation in the game, though it faces new challenges to its dominance.

It’s great to finally have the chance to talk about 1.29 Manchu after so many months. I’ll be back with more over the next few weeks building up to its release in September. Our next development diary will hone in on the 3 M’s: Maps, Manchus, and Mongols!


Manchu will be a free update to EU4 with new content and the 64 bit upgrade. The European Update and DLC will be coming in 2020.
 
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[QUOTE =“Lord Hoosier,帖子:25771855,成员:1189390”]哪里可以找到更多关于这个失败的“顺朝”?我真的很感兴趣,喜欢阅读EUIV背后的历史。[/ QUOTE]
Yes, I am a player came from China . You can use Baidu or Bing(in China , including HK ) searching for "李自成“(Zicheng Li).But maybe you have better to use google translate in order to make you understand Chinese . 李自成 , who is the emperor of Shun , was born in 1606.9.22 ,and died at 1645.05.17 ,He began to rebel against the Ming emperor in 1629 , finally he won in 1644 ,But he was also defeated by the Qing Dynasty .
 
As a Chinese player, I am very happy to see the future. I always thought that the balance in East Asia was magical. Now it can be changed. In addition, I don't think that there is such a thing as bank in Ming, which can not be lent. If there was no money, the emperor would choose to kill some bureaucratic‘s family and take out the money of the rich, which would reduce the stability of the country and the value of the country's virtues. Ming is too strong, too stable. It is not scientific and has no sense of substitution.
 
I know DHEs are intended to work around the weaknesses of the game's base mechanics (usually complicated political shenanigans, especially early game where the chain of events are already in motion) but when we are using DHEs to force specific results to warfare, I think it might be time to reconsider the base mechanics.

That said, I do like the changes and hope that, as has been stated in the dev diary, Asia will become less stable.
 
Looks great!

If not down to the actual letter, I feel you have well responded to the sentiment of my crude
"China suggestions compilation thread". I hope it has been informative somehow, and I'm
curious to see, if one or two ideas have been taken from it. :)

However, I have to scold you, paradox, because you broke your promise to involve players.
Now you again have not enough time to take in feedback and eventually change or add things,
which is especially grave considering how long this patch seemingly has been in the making! :confused:

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next DDs on 1.29.
 
  • Neighboring non-tributary nations no longer cause Mandate loss.
    • This prevents Mandate loss from bordering large nations such as Russia.

Thank god!
 
the thing is, if my king is 6/6/6 god king, I am not gonna let him lead a battle. if he is 1/1/1, like how Ming started with in 1444, I would pay you to kill him.

a regular commander... just reroll, it's more important to keep your army tradition high and get idea bonuses

When Playing as a Republic or with the States-General Reform, I don't really care unless I've rolled a high stat ruler. If it's say, a 3/2/2, I'll make them a general.
 
One thing that always bothered me is that Korea will very often swallow up a majority of Jianzhou, or in other games Jianzhou would already be occupying Korea down to Hanseong by 1500. Some games I even see Korea occupying most of Manchuria by the early-mid 1500s! The Northern Korean border (Yalu and Tumen rivers) is very porous while in real life was generally stable until present day.

I hope with this update we can get a more stable border between the two, and perhaps an event relating to the highly skilled Korean border guard cavalry that defended against northern invaders, or the string of forts Joseon built along it. More Korean provinces alongside Manchurian ones, or increased development along the south and west of the peninsula would really be appreciated. I think the southeast of Korea around Gyeongju, or Kaesong just north of Hanseong would be fantastic candidates for another province or province modifier to signify them as special historic places.

There also needs to be more events related to the unification of Japan and the subsequent Imjin War (1592-1598 Invasions of Korea where the Ming also got involved) which MoH for some reason didn't touch on. There is potential for even more inter-Japanese-Korean events like the Disturbance of the Three Ports (Japanese merchants attempted seizure of southern Gyeongju in 1510), the Tongsinsa (big, expensive diplomatic envoys Japan and Korea sent to each other from the 14th to 19th century, the Tokugawa almost bankrupting themselves spending money to improve roads and infrastructure to impress Korean envoys visiting Edo, and the Japanese envoy's routes being used as spies by Hideyoshi to invade Korea and reach Hanseong in less than a month after the Imjin war began), and a diplomatic event between Ming and Japan in the Ningbo Incident.

I also hope Ryukyu could get another province or two (Yaeyama islands or Amami-Oshima specifically), but I think I'm in the minority for that. If not that, please make it easier to click on. Lastly I think Tsushima island should be made a province with the So clan (diplomatic middlemen between Korea and the Shogunate who also had trading influence in Busan) leading it as a daimyo.

Also, and I know I'm stretching here, but could you guys look into adding an extra province on Sakhalin island or Taiwan (i.e. Penghu islands), and maybe some impassable mountains in central Japan or central Taiwan (Zhongshan) for strategic depth?
 
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After the European Update, are there any plans on giving an update to South East Asia and Buddhism or to Africa and Fetishism? (I feel these are the areas that have been the most neglected) Maybe for the end of 2020 or for 2021.
 
I am so glad to see more love to the Celestial Empire as a Chinese player with those amazing changes to the MoH.

There are a few more suggestions for your reference.

1. I think the Tumu Crisis event is a great move to add some historical flavors. But the player as Ming would easily prevent the Captured Emperor event from triggering by making the Emperor leading a small unit and hiding in Hainan (an island province in the south, even impossible to attack if guarded with navy). So my thought is to make the event chain happen in the same conditions as the Burgundian Succession Crisis (at war with Oirat, and the Emperor is a general). I think it would be more fun and challenging for Ming players. Also, the heir of Ming in 1444 should not be Zhu Qiyu at the first place. He was made Emperor after his brother Zhu Qizhen (Yingzong Emperor) was captured by the Oirat. It is also an interesting choice if you add an event of the power struggling between the two Emperors after Yingzong was sent back to Ming, as historically happened.

2. As many have made their point, Canton is a city of far less political importance in the history of Imperial China. Please consider adding other cities with Mandate ties such as Xi'an (the capital of Qin, Han, and Tang Dynasty), Luoyang (Zhou, Eastern Han, Wei, Sui Dynasty), Hangzhou (Song Dynasty). These are more recognized as the concept of "京 (Imperial Capitals)" in ancient China.

3. The Disaster that targets Ming seems sensible but in a way oversimplifies the collapse of the empire. In the history of Ming, the factionalism (power balance among the Emperor, the Confucian Bureaucrat and the Eunuchs) plays a vital role in the falling of the country. Although it also happened in other dynasties, the Eunuchs seizing power was uniquely often in Ming Dynasty. Actually, the capture of Yingzong Emperor was also deeply connected to the powerful eunuch, Wang Zhen, who controlled the court and encouraged the Emperor to lead the attack against Oirat.

So I am thinking it could be a good idea to add a mechanism to Ming similar to the Dutch Republic, with Bureaucrat (-100) and Eunuchs (100) at the two ends and Emperor in the middle. To be specific, if the power balance falls between -33 and 33, the Emperor manages to keep the balance. If it falls between -100 and -33, the Bureaucrat rises to power. The same goes for the Eunuchs (33 - 100). Clinging to each end (<-66 or >66) would lead to a factionalism disaster causing negative impact on economy, unrest, stability, manpower, corruption or oven monarch points.

The mechanism could be linked with bonuses and penalties as well. When the balance is well kept, it helps increase Mandate and Meritocracy but slightly slows the spread of institutions. When Bureaucrat is more influential, it reduces the cost of advisers but slowly increases the autonomy. When the power falls in the hand of Eunuchs, it reduces the cost to construct or develop a province but increases the corruption.

I am not sure these would be reasonable changes in terms of gameplay, but I wanted to share them with the forum a long time ago, as a fan of Paradox games and a history lover.

Thanks @neondt again for bringing the wonderful 1.29 update. I can't wait the release of it and more DD about the coming European Expansion.
 
I'm going to Ming-splode from all this excitement. I had pessimistically accepted the cruel status of East Asia after the Mandate Of Heaven DLC was released, but now I'm overwhelmed with joy!
 
I red DD one more time and realized that there will be more reasons to keep Mandate in order to avoid something, but no positive reasons. Will Mandate bonuses be changed/buffed?
 
What about provinces like Macau and Hong Kong? Will they be finally there and in proper shape? Maybe even a trade Event to get those provinces if you are a european nation and improve a special number of relations with china?
 
Without reading the comments. I have always wanted there to be an option to be a Tengri Qing (Syncretic with Confucianism), wondering if this is a possibility in this update?
 
Amazing job. The Far East really needed a buff in events, and flavour! Thank you. By the way, when in 2020 (approximately) will the next DLC be available? I CAN'T wait to play as France & Vassals.
 
At the same time it makes killing Ming even more "gamey" than before. No longer will we only need to occupy their lands to increase devastation but also not wipe their armies so that they can take loans. I don't like adding flat negative bonuses - 4 loans is OK, but 5 loans is making mandate drop. And with added bonuses to mandate increasing I'm afraid that it will be more of a chore to kill Ming now. Especially on very hard, where Ming never takes loans. But I guess we'll have to test it.

Perhaps doing it the old-fashioned way (skull pyramids everywhere) should do the job. The populace would get mighty pissed at the Emperor for not guarding his peoples lives