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EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of November 2017

Good day all. Today I will elaborate on the map changes which will be part of the upcoming 1.24 update. As the hawk-eyed among you will have noticed in last week's teaser, we are giving some love to the Japanese region and the Philippines, in the titular 1.24 Japan Update.

Firstly, we'll look towards what's going on in the Philippines:

North Philly.jpg



To the north we find three new tags in 1444: Pangasinan, Tondo and Maynila. While the three have distinct state religions: Mahayana, Hindu and Animist respectively, they share the North of the Philippines and the newly added Luzon ideas.


luzon_ideas
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
navy_tradition = 1

luzon_barangay =
"Spread out in small port cities and over numerous islands our state is dependent on the sea for its very existence. Our society is built to support long range trade, and everything, from the organization of agriculture to the laws and traditions reflect this fact."
naval_maintenance_modifier = -0.2
sailor_maintenance_modifer = -0.1

luzon_conquest_of_paradise =
"Our archipelago is a paradise to some but it is not without its danger. Rainforests and tropical diseases can deter invaders and sometimes the best defence is our islands themselves. In the face of sure defeat we have traditionally employed scorched earth tactics and let the land fight the invaders for us"
hostile_attrition = 1

luzon_sino_philippine_trade =
"Luzon and especially our position in the Pasig river delta, has allowed us to develop thriving ports for the import of Chinese goods into the entire archipelago. Chinese goods arrive regularly in Tondo where they can then be redistributed to the many ports and islands of the Philippines."
global_ship_trade_power = 0.1

luzon_tagalog_syncretism =
"While we have never stopped worshipping the gods of our ancestors we have also never seen a reason to reject foreign faiths. Among our people we honor the Gods of the Brahmanic faiths, side by side with the god of the Mohammedans and Buddhists."
tolerance_heathen = 2

luzon_sailors =
"Not all sailors serve on our own ships, some seek employment among the many warring states of Southeast Asia. Luzon Sailors can be found on warships from Brunei to Aceh.The experience these men earn abroad is something we can than make good use of in our own maritime endeavours. Let us encourage all our young men to seek their fortunes abroad so that they may later return experienced and hardened."
navy_tradition_decay = -0.01

luzon_a_safe_haven =
"Our kingdom is close enough to enjoy a stream of Chinese, Japanese and Southeast Asian goods yet too far away to be within their reach. This makes us a desirable destination for many who for whichever reason wish to abandon their homeland. Let us invite these people to our land so that we can benefit from their skills and expertise."
advisor_cost = -0.1

luzon_expand_the_sugar_production =
"One of the most sought after crops in these lands is the sugar that our ancestors have grown for centuries. In a more interconnected world this cash crop could bring us even greater wealth. Expanding the production of Sugar, through land reclamation as well as at the expense of other crops will allow our economy to grow to new heights."
production_efficiency = 0.1

bonus =
naval_morale = 0.2


South Philly.jpg


To the south we find the Hindu nations of Madyas, Cebu and Butuan cowering in the shadows of the stronger Animist power of Maguindanao. It can also be noted that the emergent Sulu are playable in 1444. Our new tags here enjoy their own unique National Ideas. We'll pick Maguindanao to look at today, because Animist Pride World Wide


mindanao_ideas = {
start = {
navy_tradition_decay = -0.01
infantry_power = 0.1
}

mindanao_an_islamicized_barangay = {
"Muslim traders, sufis and seamens have grown ever more common in the waters of Nusantara over the course of the last hundred years. We should integrate these newcomers in our realm and join the society of maritime Muslim sultanates. By paying homage both to this new god and the old gods of our ancestors we can be sure to have the support of the heavens as well as our people at all times."
tolerance_heathen = 2

} mindanao_unite_the_datus = {
"There are a great number of Datus, chiefs, of varying stature and influence within our borders. Many exert a much greater deal of autonomy than we would like. Let us rein in these small time chiefs and make them all come regularly to our capital to partake in the kingship ceremonies of our dynasty."
global_tax_modifier = 0.1
}
mindanao_protect_the_riches_of_mindanao = {
"The island that is our home is also a great source of wealth. Gold, pearls, sugar and cinnamon are all exotic goods that attract merchants from faraway realms and even continents. We must not let access to these goods go too easily. Let us protect our artisans and spice merchants and given them what support they need to thrive and profit from the presence of foreign traders."
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
}
mindanao_moro_sailors = {
"The Moro people of Mindanao and Sulu are famous for being able sailors and adept at naval warfare. Yet there are many who would claim to dominate these waters. We should build a new and strong fleet for our state, crewed by the many Moro sailors under our control."

naval_maintenance_modifier = -0.2
}
mindanao_fortify_our_ports = {
"We live in a dangerous world, where slavers and pirates are a constant a threat to any coastal settlement. If that was not enough, the arrival of western ships signals the dawn of a new era, with new enemies. We must always be prepared for hostile attacks and fortify all important ports with stone and cannon."
defensiveness = 0.2
}
mindanao_guerilla_warfare = {
"There are many who would try to seize our cities and villages against our will. These foreigners claim that they wish to convert us or 'settle' within our lands. We must resist all such attempts, and be ready to use the land itself against any invader."
land_morale = 0.1
}
mindanao_pirates_of_mindanao = {
"The increased hostile presence throughout the open seas has ruined many of our captains. We must resist those who would put tariffs and regulation on our shipping and instead wholeheartedly engage in smuggling and piracy when we need to. By giving safe harbor to those hunted for piracy we might also increase our activities to once again chase away those who would limit our access to the seas."
embargo_efficiency = 0.1
privateer_efficiency = 0.25

bonus = {
global_manpower_modifier = 0.1



Japan.jpg


Finally we look towards Japan. They received a lot of attention recently with the release of Mandate of Heaven yet we return to right a wrong with the island. Now in 1444 the Oda clan is playable just a stone's throw away from Kyoto, alonside Kitabatake and Tokugawa. While it will be many years before Nobunaga brings the Oda to promenance, they are available to play from the start with their own National Ideas.


ODA ideas = {
start = {
infantry_power = 0.1
land_morale = 0.1
}

oda_rakuichi_rakuza = {
"All over Japan the old Za guilds have grown influential enough to smother many forms of enterprise. With private armies they are also an affront to our direct authority. Let us abolish their monopolies and do away with tolls and closed ports or cities. Free markets and guilds, rakuichi and rakuza, will put an end to Za influence and let our commerce flourish."
global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1

oda_tenka_fubu = {
"Stabilizing our own holdings has given us a strong base for future expansion in what can only be described as a chaotic realm. Let us make the unification and pacification of Japan our clan’s mission, unifying the world can only be done through force of arms."
province_warscore_cost = -0.1
core_creation = -0.1
}
oda_generals = {
"Obsession with birth and privilege has made this country weak and the rise of self-made powerful Daimyo throughout the realm has clearly proven how useless such notions can be. Let us take this lesson to heart and let success and skill be the guiding principle for who should rise to command our armies. Strong leadership is a requirement for rapid expansion."
leader_land_shock = 1
}
oda_azuchi_castle = {
"Japan is in many ways a land of castles and everywhere we can see the growth of Jokamachi, Castle cities. It is through the construction of strong castles that one can assert influence both over the political realm and the routes vital to military campaigns. This learning is one we must take to heart. From the imperial court to our own retainers it is through the castles that we make sure that they are constantly reminded of our presence and power. At all times we must prioritize the reduction of enemy castles and the erection of our own in strategic locations"
leader_siege = 1
}
oda_triple_firing = {
"The advent of firearms has, and will continue to, revolutionize warfare in the Japanese archipelago and through mastering these new weapons we can dominate any battlefield. In order to increase the rate of their fire our musketmen will form ranks, allowing one to fire while two others reload."
fire_damage = 0.1
}
oda_patronization_of_the_west = {
"Western missionaries have brought many ideas and techniques to our land and unlike the old Buddhist associations they have no previous ties to corrupt land owners or rebellious cities. We should welcome the westerners into our cities and examine the benefits they can bring to our court."
technology_cost = -0.05
}
oda_kenchi = {
"Our realm is in many ways a patchwork of small manors and fiefs. An overview of their through worth, and in many cases even who owns what piece of land, is almost impossible to achieve. Let us undertake a major cadastral survey to investigate these lands in detail and create a new system of taxation and obligations that can then be both efficient and fair."
global_manpower_modifier = 0.2

bonus = {
leader_land_fire = 1


So it's exciting times for the Far East in the upcoming 1.24 Japan update which people can expect before the new year rolls around. The update will be free, contain the above map changes, more ideas, bugfixes and more. Consider it an early Christmas present from us to you. We'll go into detail about some of the fixes and balance changes next week. See you then!
 
to make myself clear, the neglected region to which 1.24 adds the most features so far isn't Japan but the Philippines. all these complaints that Japan gets excessive attention while other areas are neglected seem to overlook how a huge part of that attention is actually going to a region that didn't even have a single tag before that.
Well what tey did to the phillipines isn't that impressive. Half the provinces are still colonial ones for some reason. I could accept that if any of the filipino tags got free colonialists but since they do not. I guess those guys who get free colonists down in indonesia will colonize those places soon enough. Shame thogh I was hoping we'd see the return of protectorates which is how the colonialism of europeans in that region should work.
 
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Poor Philippines their idea sets look even more craptastic when placed alongside something magical like Oda.

Pretty sure 10 ccr 10 wsc is better than the combined ideaset of all the other guys
 
So, according to you it got: new provinces, new cultures, new regional groups, better bonuses and balanced, along with the other changes of the patch that included new governments and new religion mechanics, that doesnt sound overlooked to me.

No: in one patch, it got one new province and tag, three botched culture groups, and salutary neglect. In the subsequent rework, it got attention comparable to China. These patches were only two patches apart, and the first patch failed to address any of the longstanding complaints with Japan. If you don't think twenty patches of neglect is not overlooked, then I really don't know what to say.

Looking at the patch notes, it was Japan and China the ones who received the most mechanical and map changes.

Yes: as I said; just as much on China. And China is also in need of work given how silly Mandate is. And that's an odd way of counting up the map changes, considering the patch notes didn't list the map changes comprehensively or even in specifics:

https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Patch_1.20

Buddhism wasnt touched,

I said:

After Buddhism, and alongside Confucianism and the rest of East Asia.

Allow me to fill in the blanks:

After Buddhism [in 1.12], and alongside Confucianism and the rest of East Asia [in 1.20].

Well, I already pointed it out, but if you need me to repeat it again: "heck not even the geography is right, the "province" of Mexico is a single mountain tile,

I said 'count' not 'complain'. Mesoamerica's province density is comparable to Japan's.

Which is nice, again, my complain is not about the number of provinces or lack of thereoff of Korea in particular, its the lack of attention to mechanics and the focus on a region which already got a major update.

Korea starts off as part of the Mandate System, meaning they get to interact with that.

And yes, you specifically mentioned provinces in your complaint:

I dont really know why it would be "priceless" since Korea hasnt really received many changes, even in MoH it only received 1 or 2 extra provinces

Korea - and the entirety of China, along with a fair amount of South-East Asia - would fall under your criteria for being 'too soon'.

You mean the Polynesian tribes that settled half the Pacific and probably even farther, who settled 3 continets, who were the first navigation power in the Pacific, who ruled over Hawaii and probably extended as far as America? those Polynesians.

Who did nothing of note afterwards for centuries.

I also fail to see how ruling - and by ruling you actually mean numerous independent tribes inhabiting the archipelago except for the last few decades of the game - over Hawaii is worthy of being mentioned separately from settling the Pacific, unless if you happen to live in Hawaii.

Of course I am,

Then just say so. There's no reason to bash an update just because it doesn't immediately target the region you want. Many people on the forums patiently waited twenty patches for East Asia to get mechanics, and the overwhelming majority of us didn't complain when Mesoamerica was prioritized over it (despite having far less longevity).
 
to make myself clear, the neglected region to which 1.24 adds the most features so far isn't Japan but the Philippines. all these complaints that Japan gets excessive attention while other areas are neglected seem to overlook how a huge part of that attention is actually going to a region that didn't even have a single tag before that.

Yeah, dont get me wrong, its absolutelly fantastic that the Phillipines are getting SOME attention, problem is that they are getting SOME attention at the expense of a region that got A LOT of attention relatively recently.

And for something that getting so many features as you claim its telling that the focus of the diary is not the Phillipines, but Japan, that the ones getting excellent new ideas is Japan, that the first diary has the lion'¿s share of attention in Japan, and that the update is the JAPAN Update.

Right now, I cant help but have a negative reaction towards this, for those reasons, hopefully that would change, but right now? this is the: "JAPAN Update with a smear for some random areas of the Philipines we decided to add for the lols".
 
Yeah, dont get me wrong, its absolutelly fantastic that the Phillipines are getting SOME attention, problem is that they are getting SOME attention at the expense of a region that got A LOT of attention relatively recently.

And for something that getting so many features as you claim its telling that the focus of the diary is not the Phillipines, but Japan, that the ones getting excellent new ideas is Japan, that the first diary has the lion'¿s share of attention in Japan, and that the update is the JAPAN Update.

Right now, I cant help but have a negative reaction towards this, for those reasons, hopefully that would change, but right now? this is the: "JAPAN Update with a smear for some random areas of the Philipines we decided to add for the lols".
Yeah I too was hoping for more. I was hoping every colonial province in Indonesia the Philippines and most of Polynesia (everything not uninhabited) would be turned into tags and their provinces and that we would see a new system for Europe to interact with them since the old system failed and then was removed.
 
I'll grant the Amago that - between being Shugodai and a branch clan, yes. But the Tsutsui, though victorious, did not exercise much authority over the other Yamato Kokujin - Hashio, Toichi, Ochi, etc. - who generally acted independent of them and their seat of power in the breadbasket of Yamato. And if there'd need to be a clear difference between the Kai and Asakura, then there needs to be a clear difference between the Tsutsui and the other Yamato clans - or the Shoni and clans of western Hizen, or the Ito and the Tsuchimochi, or the Satake and Hitachi-Oda, or the Date and Ashina and Soma, or...

If you think Tsutsui isn't suitable for 1444 clan and other clan should occupy the province, please let us know. The reasons why I have suggested to put Tsutsui in Yamato in 1444 were the absence of Hatakeyama there in that year and the (relatively) leading position of Tsutsui (historical reason), making a difference between Hatakeyama and Hosokawa/Yamana (gamewise reason), plus tag economy reason for late scenarios (reusable or not).
Unfortunately, Asakura in 1444 just fills partially the third reason in my categories. Echizen was the capital province of the Shiba and Shiba is already weaker than Hosokawa Yamana in game (but same 2PM like Hatakeyama).
I have to say my preference might have affected the clan choices in game, but I have always taken (or tried at least) the above three reasons (historical, gamewise and tag reusablity) into the account. As I said, if you really think Tsuchimochi should appear instead of Ito etc. and can provide reasons, please let us know. However, your clan choices were not so different from mine, considering your old clan suggestion thread.

The Shiba shouldn't be in Uzen either, as the Mogami had already broken off from them by 1444 - which in of itself might be a solution to the Shiba problem, now that the Oda are independent (of course, if the Oshu-Shiba were represented this wouldn't be an issue).

Putting Shiba in Dewa was initially to strengthen their power in the earliest version of 2013 where there were only two provinces in Tohoku. There were many Shiba branches in Oshu (Mogami, Osaki, Kosuiji Shiba etc.) to be represented somehow. There are also several historical/gamewise/tag ecnomic reasons why I have suggested Mogami too, and I think it works.
 
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Hopefully Japan will work out more like the HRE. In the sense that you can now vassalise other Daimyo and have to ask for military acces, would make the campaign much more tense. I also like the idea to make it unable/extremely hard for the Shogun to simply annex the Daimyo.
 
This is really more indicative of Institutions and Stability being in need of a rework. Frankly so many base mechanics of the game are in need of sprucing up, and I'd happily sacrifice a Japan update if it meant that we got deeper warfare or rewarding tall gameplay, etc.

On that I can't agree more ! But I'm wondering when this time will come ... (if it will one day)
Untill then for balancing purpose, they should at least change some Shinto bonus or at least Buff them...

What do you want to do with a mere -10 % embrassement cost / +10 % institution spread ...

I waited a long time an update for japan, but their faith is just bad (in my opinion of course)
 
If you think Tsutsui isn't suitable for 1444 clan and other clan should occupy the province, please let us know. The reasons why I have suggested to put Tsutsui in Yamato in 1444 were the absence of Hatakeyama there in that year (historical reason), making a difference between Hatakeyama and Hosokawa/Yamana (gamewise reason), plus tag economy reason for late scenarios (reusable or not).

Oh, no, I mean I agree perfectly with the Tsutsui controlling Yamato, I'm just pointing out the parallel between them and the Asakura's situation, should they be independent in 1444.

Unfortunately, Asakura in 1444 just fills the third reason in my categories. Echizen was the capital province of the Shiba and Shiba is already weaker than Hosokawa Yamana in game (but same 2PM like Hatakeyama).

Fair point.

I have to say my preference might have affected the clan choices in game, but I have always taken (or tried at least) the above three reasons (historical, gamewise and tag reusablity) into the account. As I said, if you really think Tsuchimochi should appear instead of Ito etc. and can provide reasons, please let us know. However, your clan choices were not so different from mine, considering your old clan suggestion thread.

Well, there's really no point of contention with how 1.20 was set-up; the issue is more consistency. For as much the Amago could be represented as being the Kyogoku in 1444, there's also the fact that neither Omi or Hida were made their own provinces, and so as the Amago already existed it was a given. The Tsutsui, while not the uncontested rulers of Yamato, were definitely the biggest power there. The issue arose with the Oda and Matsudaira being independent in 1444 - while there's both were vassals of clans that existed in game already and have provinces, albeit both were the dominant and de facto powers in the provinces because the shugo's authority in Owari and Mikawa had waned. Thus the question turned to Echizen.

Putting Shiba in Dewa was initially to strengthen their power in the earliest version of 2013 where there were only two provinces in Tohoku. There were many Shiba branches in Oshu (Mogami, Osaki, Kosuiji Shiba etc.) to be represented somehow. There are also several historical/gamewise/tag ecnomic reasons why I have suggested Mogami too, and I think it works.

If you don't mind clarifying; Mogami as an independent clan in 1444, or just as a core?
 
I dig it. Probably won’t be anything left to colonize for the Europeans mid-game, so their presence will be nonexistent in the East until the AI can figure out how to do Long-distance Wars, but still cool. I know there has been a very vocal group of people asking for Philippine Nations for some time that will be happy.

My personal favorite? Those Oda ideas. Brutal. Can’t wait to try them :)
 
Can the use of Japanese unit sprites be extended to Ryukyu? The current Chinese tech units are really ugly, and Ryukyu is of a Japanese culture...
I’d prefer them just update the vanilla Chinese units :p
 
No: in one patch, it got one new province and tag, three botched culture groups, and salutary neglect. In the subsequent rework, it got attention comparable to China. These patches were only two patches apart, and the first patch failed to address any of the longstanding complaints with Japan. If you don't think twenty patches of neglect is not overlooked, then I really don't know what to say.

Again: Provinces, tags, culture groups, religion, governments balance, "got attention comparable to China.", "two patches", the second of which resolved "longstanding complaints with Japan".

Thats overlooked?

Yes: as I said; just as much on China. And China is also in need of work given how silly Mandate is. And that's an odd way of counting up the map changes, considering the patch notes didn't list the map changes comprehensively or even in specifics

Im not counting them, you're are, up until this point I've been basically using YOUR words in regards to provinces.

I said: After Buddhism [in 1.12], and alongside Confucianism and the rest of East Asia [in 1.20],

I got into the game in 1.20, but 1.12 was a balance and again, Im not talking about Confucianism, for the 3rd time, I already told you this in the Korean segway you disscussed, it isnt about higher numbers or "buffing" buddhism, its about mechanics in the general area that have been overlooked, while Japan has NOT been overlooked


I said 'count' not 'complain'. Mesoamerica's province density is comparable to Japan's.

Again, its not about Province count, thats nice, but not the main geographical problem in my opinion, let me put it another way, imagine if Kyoto and Tokyo were a single "Imperial Capital" province with the geography of a tropical jungle, would you be fine with that if Japan had a really really high province count?

Another thing:
Mesoamerica's province density is comparable to Japan's.

Considering Mesoamerica is bigger than Western Europe thats kind of a problem in and of itself, please dont get latched to that but Japan is REALLY, REALLY small compared to Mesoamerica, dont get latched to that like you did with Korea, please, its an observation.


Korea starts off as part of the Mandate System, meaning they get to interact with that.

Again, thats a Chinese mechanic, you cant compare that to Japan which even gets unique government mechanics to themselves, and again, not the point, I repeat Korea is not the point, its an example.

Korea - and the entirety of China, along with a fair amount of South-East Asia - would fall under your criteria for being 'too soon'.

Korea maaaaybeee, South East Asia, no, I refer to this post which makes far better arguments than I could: https://www.reddit.com/r/eu4/comments/75m7dm/why_southeast_asia_is_most_in_need_of_a_rework_by/



Who did nothing of note afterwards for centuries.

Defeated the Russians, formed several kingdoms, established trade routes throughout the Indian and Chinese seas, expanded their settlements, fought several wars accross the Pacific against Europeans, even winning some, especially against Spain, carried over religions and cultures throughout natural and cultural borders.

Honestly if THATS your argument the Japanese didnt do anything of note either until after Mexico became the first country to recognize them as a nation in 1888 and they became able to renegotiate their treaties with the rest of the world.

Oh btw, how are you doing with those "scholars of antiquity" who talked about the "pacific tribes", that you talked about?

Then just say so.

I just did?, several times, I dont think I was hiding it,... did youhad some kind of impediment reading my answer? were you under the impression that I was trying to hide it?

the overwhelming majority of us didn't complain when Mesoamerica was prioritized over it (despite having far less longevity)

That was YEARS ago, when the "this game is called EUROPA Universalis" argument was still aplicable, would you like to go back there? because I sure wouldnt.
And if as you say the region has "far less longevity" then thats a design problem, one that isnt present in Japan right now after the work that was done to it in MoH, unlike many other regions including, yes Mesoamerica, but also South-East Asia, Middle Asia, Africa, South America, North America, etc, etc...

All of which are NOT Japan, which got A LOT of attention recently NOT years ago like other regions.
 
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Well, there's really no point of contention with how 1.20 was set-up; the issue is more consistency. For as much the Amago could be represented as being the Kyogoku in 1444, there's also the fact that neither Omi or Hida were made their own provinces, and so as the Amago already existed it was a given. The Tsutsui, while not the uncontested rulers of Yamato, were definitely the biggest power there. The issue arose with the Oda and Matsudaira being independent in 1444 - while there's both were vassals of clans that existed in game already and have provinces, albeit both were the dominant and de facto powers in the provinces because the shugo's authority in Owari and Mikawa had waned. Thus the question turned to Echizen.

Shiba's "capital" in 1444 was Echizen, not Owari. This was my deciding point in a word. If Shiba had their capital in Owari at that point, I would have strongly objected putting Oda in the grand campaign.
As for Omi, I am also missing the province and the Biwa lake. However, dividing it to Kyoto (Yamashiro) and Omi might cause some "clickablity" problems (especially on Yamshiro, but Omi with the Biwa lake too).

If you don't mind clarifying; Mogami as an independent clan in 1444, or just as a core?

Due to the tag economy, I won't suggest Mogami as separate faction. However, Shiba should turn into (defacto) Mogami in the historical scenarios earlier because Oda gets Owari now and Asakura will be independent anyway during the Onin War.
 
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this one will be the free update?
but i don't know much about philippine history

Oda clan? i wanna play Oda Nobunaga now!
 
luzon_conquest_of_paradise =
"Our archipelago is a paradise to some but it is not without its danger. Rainforests and tropical diseases can deter invaders and sometimes the best defence is our islands themselves. In the face of sure defeat we have traditionally employed scorched earth tactics and let the land fight the invaders for us"
hostile_attrition = 1

Maybe Defense of Paradise would be a more appropriate name for this idea.