Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV. Today we’ll go into details about mechanics for some religions, that will become available with the next expansion.


Protestanstism
Each protestant church will have their own name in the interface, like Church of England and so on. You can then customise the benefits of your church, and also change it over time whenever you need. To change the aspect of your church, you have to spend Church Power.

Church Power is accumulated each month, depending on your current religious unity, and your monarchs abilities.

Adding an aspect to your church costs 100 church power, but you can remove an aspect at any time, but that will lower your stability by 1.

A Church can have up to 3 different aspects, and there are 12 different ones to pick from. Some of these include.

• Holy Sacraments: +2.5% Discipline
• Individual Creeds: -5% Idea Costs
• Adult Baptism: +1% Missionary Strength.

Buddhism
The Buddhist Faith gained the concept of Karma. Karma needs to be balanced, because if it goes too positive or negative, you end up with penalties. If you go too positive you end up with penalties to your diplomatic abilities, and if you go too negative, you end up with penalties to your military abilities.

However, If you keep a balanced karma, you gain bonuses to both diplomatic and military abilities.

Some examples on how you gain Karma include: Starting wars decrease Karma, while honoring defensive alliances increase Karma.

While adding the Karma mechanic and its related events it also became clear that the game setup could benefit from splitting the existing religion into Vajrayana, Mahayana and Theravada. These three religions will all use the same Karma mechanic but don't all share the same events related to it and can in some cases have different event options in the events they do share. Events related to Lamas are for instance reserved for the Vajrayana faith while only Theravada countries can turn to Ceylon for spiritual inspiration. The three religions also differ in what bonuses they provide.

Next week we will talk about about subjects and how to interact with them...

 

[LordDamien]

Why was Orthodox Left out ?

 

[IsadorBG]

A dubious statement.

As I said, these developments in history had complex external and internal factors, with circumstances and luck playing a part too. You can't boil everything down to simple A or B.

Yeah wow how did I missed that. Saying that France (you know French revolutionS yes with a S and stuff) was more conservative than Germany or UK is just well... I don't know what to say really.

Oh and Poland remember that conservative country that got eaten by progressist power like the absolute monarchies of Sweden, Prussia and Russia or the Feodal monarchy of Austria.

Plus it kind of means that converting to protestantism was being progressist or something.... just NOPE.

 

[Golladan]

Why was Orthodox Left out ?

Left out of what? Religion mechanic? They already have one.

 

[LordDamien]

Left out of what? Religion mechanic? They already have one.

The protestant Mechanics look better than what Orthodox have currently. Unless I never fully explored it. But all I remember about Orthodox is that you have option to keep the chruch happy or not.. something along those lines.

But it would be nice to be able to have something along the lines of what the protestants will get. Just not the same.

 

[Zelius]

The protestant Mechanics look better than what Orthodox have currently. Unless I never fully explored it. But all I remember about Orthodox is that you have option to keep the chruch happy or not.. something along those lines.

But it would be nice to be able to have something along the lines of what the protestants will get. Just not the same.

Any suggestions?

The new Protestant and the current Reformed allow you to choose your own active bonuses, which seems reasonable as these religions were newly minted in the timeframe.

It doesn't make as much sense for Orthodox, which already gives good buffs anyway. Maybe it could have more events?

 

[oblio-]

Why was Orthodox Left out ?

The Orthodox have nice bonuses already. The real question is: how come Protestants have state churches when all Orthodox churches are state churches and have been since the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as a state religion?

 

[Dorevai]

Well not quite since. Autocephalous patriarchs were a result of the organic growth of areas into something that could/should be self-governing. In many cases autocephalous churches declared themselves such and were recognized long after the fact. CK2 simplifies the whole concept, but it was really quite a mess.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Autocephaly

 

[Emiliana]

BTW, I feel I should make a comment on something important.

The concept of "Karma" – you should probably try to find a better name for this.
Karma, as I understand it, is something that has to do with individual's virtues. It does not apply to the whole of society.

Buddhism is rich in its vocabulary, so I'm pretty sure that there is something that is more accurate and fits better to what you want to achieve. "Karma" kind of sounds like a misunderstood and "John Romeroesque Quake-engine '98"-take on a philosophical subject, and Paradox should be better than that.

I'm not an expert (you should consult one), but have you checked in the concept of "Dharma"? It's more about the order of the universe and resembles the stuff you did for the South American religions in El Dorado.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma

"In Hinduism, dharma signifies behaviors that are considered to be in accord with rta, the order that makes life and universe possible,[10][note 1] and includes duties, rights, laws, conduct, virtues and ‘‘right way of living’’.[7] In Buddhismdharma means "cosmic law and order",[10] but is also applied to the teachings of the Buddha.[10] In Buddhist philosophy, dhamma/dharma is also the term for "phenomena".[11][note 2] In Jainismdharma refers to the teachings of the Jinas[10] and the body of doctrine pertaining to the purification and moral transformation of human beings. For Sikhs, the word dharm means the "path of righteousness"."

the key thing i think you missed is that it is for your monarch. your monarchs karma, based on your monarch's actions. it is not your nation, as if you have rebels etc, you clearly dont all agree on everything. much like piety in islamic nations

 

[LordofWarN02]

Well not quite since. Autocephalous patriarchs were a result of the organic growth of areas into something that could/should be self-governing. In many cases autocephalous churches declared themselves such and were recognized long after the fact. CK2 simplifies the whole concept, but it was really quite a mess.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Autocephaly

Could have an event that like Constantinople recognize Autocephaly as Russian request for the Church as Autocephaly and election of Patriarch.

There is a Pentrachy since Purple Phoenix but need more mechanic for Pentrachy and could make like replace Pope with Orthodox Patriarch of Rome.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Isn't it kind of odd that Reformed would excel at warfare though? In my view, it seems more fitting that reformed should be the weakest in terms of warfare. I think it would make more sense to have protestantism be better at war, and have reformed be more about trade and development. That, atleast, fits better with how protestant and reformed countries did historically, as far as I know.

I thought that Reformed had more of a choose-your-benefit type deal, and it just happens that most players prefer to focus on war. I recall reading somewhere in here that Prussia was, at various points in its history, ruled by Calvinists, so you could consider that as being the model for a warlike Reformed state.

 

[LordDamien]

More Events would be a good thing. The bonus are fine.. I agree but I wish i could interact more with Orthodox chruch like you can with the Catholic one.. right now besides the Bonus.. You really do not interact with the orthodox Church at all. Maybe we can have a Mini Orthodox state were you can interact with it like you can with the Catholics ?.

Then again..Orthodox do not have a head of the chruch like a Pope. Since they believe that Christ is the head of the Church. But it would be nice if their was a similar system that allows for more interaction with the orthodox Church.

Anybody know how powerful the Orthodox Church was during eu4 time ?

 

[Communitnerd92]

sounds awesome

 

[Carlos9807]

The orthodox church as I know weren't powerful in this time, they command Byzantine empire , they will be more powerful in 1600 because of its expansion to Russia but anyway I don't believe that the orthodox have a religious unity that can be considered a leader of the church to be done a similar system to the Catholics,

But anyway it could be nice for players more attracted to the near orient

 

[IsadorBG]

More Events would be a good thing. The bonus are fine.. I agree but I wish i could interact more with Orthodox chruch like you can with the Catholic one.. right now besides the Bonus.. You really do not interact with the orthodox Church at all. Maybe we can have a Mini Orthodox state were you can interact with it like you can with the Catholics ?.

Then again..Orthodox do not have a head of the chruch like a Pope. Since they believe that Christ is the head of the Church. But it would be nice if their was a similar system that allows for more interaction with the orthodox Church.

Anybody know how powerful the Orthodox Church was during eu4 time ?

Would be fun but the Orthodox Church would be more an internal faction than a external faction like the pope. But it's true that I find the orthodox dynamic a bit dull.

And Orthodox Republic (Novgorod) are broken. It's insanely rare to get Patriarchal authority for some reasons. In my Novgorod playthrough I have like +15 authority and that's with Religious idea full and always taking the +patriarchal authority choice the few time I got the choice).

 

[Incompetent]

The size of the Orthodox bonuses for high PA are fine, but it would be nice if a) there were more frequent opportunities to adjust Patriarch Authority and b) there were some more benefits to keeping PA low (representing the total subordination of the church to the state, which is obviously handy for an absolutist regime). For instance, maybe low PA could give a small amount of monthly local autonomy reduction.

As for Protestant versus Orthodox state churches: the Orthodox church could sometimes be used as an instrument of the state, but given how entrenched it was in society, it also had a fair amount of political power in its own right (or at least had the potential for a lot of political power - I think this is what Patriarch Authority is supposed to represent). Churches like the Church of England on the other hand were very much tools of the secular political establishment (although occasionally that establishment power was directed against the monarchy, e.g. in the 1688 revolution in England).

 

[IsadorBG]

Well I only know about Byzantium and Russia but for the two there's always been a symbiotic relation between the Ruler and the Church.

Basically the Ruler guarranteed the predominence (and wealth) of the Church who in return was a firm support of the Ruler autocratic rule.

So in that respect the authority max bonuse represents closely that relation the only downside being that to be historically accurate those should be the base bonuses since the church was already at that level from the start.

 

[LikeNothing]

I think the opinion modifiers for religions ought to be tossed and based entirely off of tolerance. If I tolerate protestants +3, then they like me +30. If I tolerate protestants -3 (or -6 or w/e) then they dislike me -30, and all chunks of 10 inbetween. Do that for all religions. Then +1 tolerance own turns into a diplomatic benefit, and you could use it in the vassalage accept/deny weighting (tolerates my religion +5).

That makes some sense but to have it completely replace the current religion modifiers would lead to some bizarre effects.

The Ottomans, example, have high Tolerance of Christians, historical and in game. With your mechanic that would lead to Christian nations feeling all friendly towards the Ottomans. Would you want that?

 

[Frederick_Will]

The size of the Orthodox bonuses for high PA are fine, but it would be nice if a) there were more frequent opportunities to adjust Patriarch Authority and b) there were some more benefits to keeping PA low (representing the total subordination of the church to the state, which is obviously handy for an absolutist regime). For instance, maybe low PA could give a small amount of monthly local autonomy reduction.

Well I am sure one could argue that every time a PA event pops up, you get a choice for 5 PA or lose 5 PA and get some bonus. I cant remember all of the bonuses but I think some are stability and money. One could argue those are your benefits for keeping it low. You also get to keep more of your tax income(I think 100% PA is -33% tax right)

but yes, i do agree that more events would be nice.

 

[IsadorBG]

Instead of tolerence I would like that the opinion modifier for religions reduced with time to represent the decay of its importance in Europe. Maybe even get higher malus on start to make Heathens alliances impossible.

So for exemple if in 1444 the tolerence is -40. By 1700 the modifier should only be -10 or so.
An alliance with the Ottoman in 1444 impossible ? Maybe but in 1700 not at all.

It would also make Western Arm trade slighly less useless for non-Eastern tech/christians nations. Only slightly tough.

 

[Duke of Britain]

That makes some sense but to have it completely replace the current religion modifiers would lead to some bizarre effects.

The Ottomans, example, have high Tolerance of Christians, historical and in game. With your mechanic that would lead to Christian nations feeling all friendly towards the Ottomans. Would you want that?

It would probably mean that the Ottomans would be friendlier to the Christians (High heathen tolerance), but the Christians in general would hate the Ottomans (Low heathen tolerance).