• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of October 2018

Hello and welcome back to another huge dev diary! Today we’ll talk about two new features, a small one and a big one. We then end the diary with two changes to balance. Also as usual, large warning on that all of this is work in progress and might not match the final product!

First up is a small little feature based on the Portuguese Marines and them attacking forts along the coast of Africa and India. Naval Barrage is the same as Artillery Barrage but it requires the cannons of your ships instead of field artillery. It goes by amount of cannons on the coast / 100 to the fort level to determine if you can break open it’s walls. It will cost 50 military points just like the normal Artillery Barrage.

ART NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-7.png


The Portuguese also gets a small bonus by a change we’ll describe in the next feature for the dev diary.


The big feature of today is Flagships. A more bombastic and expensive ship as the pride of your navy. It houses the commanding officers of the fleet who plan the engagement and mission the ships take part in. They are unlocked to any nation that fields a navy of 3 000 sailors, or 15 heavies worth, and it costs 100 ducats to build.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-43.png


A flagship consists of up to 3 modifications on it. Each modification you pick will raise the maintenance cost of your flagship. Some modifications will only buff the flagship itself but some will buff the entire fleet that it’s part of. There are also some modifications that are restricted to specific nations.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-39-19.png


Here is a list as of this writing the current generic modifications we have in the game.
  • Mass Load Cannons: 15% more cannons on flagship
  • Hull Sheathing: +50% Flagship Durability
  • Trade Route Map: +1 Trade Power for all ships in fleet (Yes not only lightships)
  • Command Aftercastle: +5% Morale to Ships in Fleet
  • Improved Crows Nest: +5 Engagement Width
  • Mortars: +1 Blockade Impact on Siege
  • Standardized Signal Book: +1 Movement Speed for every ship in Fleet
Then we also have a few country specific ones.
  • Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
  • Portuguese Trade Route Map: +2 Trade power for every ship in the fleet.
  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet: Cannons count twice for hunting pirates
  • Spanish Mass Load Cannons: 30% More cannons on Flagship
  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
  • Dutch Courage: 10% Morale bonus in fleet.
ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-36-19.png


Next are the balance changes we’ve done. These are not tied with the future paid content but we are experimenting a bit with it to see how it gets received. There’s been a lot of discussion on the current meta with idea groups both on our forums and other platforms. So over the last couple of weeks we’ve been collecting data on what idea sets that are picked by players to get a proper statistical overview on where the meta lies. For clarification the data as follows is per player, per game. This means if two players in the same game picks the same idea groups, it will be counted twice. If you as a player start two seperate games and pick an idea group it will be counted twice. If you pick a group and then unpick it to pick another, it will count both instances of groups. I hope this explains what the data this is based on actually is.

Now one of the things we can see that Exploration ideas are the most popular idea set of all counting for 11% of the picks. Which makes sense, it’s an idea group that opens up a whole area for the player. Lowest on the list is Plutocracy with an abysmal 0.79%, one I’ve seen many point as an interesting and good group, but it’s unpopularity is probably due to its very scarce availability. Even Aristocracy clocks in on 3% which I've seen some refer to as "trash tier" of the military ones.

So the most unpopular idea groups are the ones we focused the most on, minus plutocracy. They are as follows.
  • Maritime ideas: 1.41%
  • Naval ideas: 1.09%
  • Spy ideas: 1.07%
upload_2018-10-30_9-13-42.png


We also focused on some pet peeves of ours like influence ideas which was the third most picked one, religious, expansion, humanist, administrative, diplomatic and innovativeness ideas. I’ll attach the change log to the end of this dev diary but I’ll try to put some more descriptive text to some of the more important changes.

So first I want to cover the changes to Espionage. Espionage gained the -20% AE Impact from Influence ideas to replace it’s -10% Liberty Desire. In return Influence gained -15% Subject Liberty desire to replace their 25% Heir Chance. Though Espionage gained another little fun feature.

On the 5th idea for Espionage you now get, besides just cheaper fabrication cost, the ability to fabricate claims on behalf of your vassals. This works for any type of vassal except tributaries. Important to note is that the claim will belong to the vassal and not you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-13-52.png


Another big change is to the colonisation game, We’ve thrown things around a little. The first two ideas of Exploration have been swapped and Exploration have been made to be a bit slower in colonization. Instead we have have buffed Expansion ideas to be the idea group that speeds up your colonisation. It gives you two colonist and way faster speed in getting it done. It’s finisher have been changed to give +5 Max States as well.

An experimental thing we are testing out now and seeing how it plays out as well is to put DLC locked values into the idea groups. People have for a long time asked for Innovativeness Gain in Innovative Ideas for instance. Now it got 50% of that, which converts into 5% Idea Cost if you don’t own Rule Britannia. A similar thing is -20% cheaper CoT Upgrade in Expansion ideas and -25% Expel Minority Cost for Exploration ideas.

Last important change is to Religious. The +2% Heretic Missionary Strength have been removed and instead we have 50% Missionary Maintenance there. Now you might be thinking “Well that value is worthless, missionaries costs literally nothing!” We’re changing that and removing the block on religious conversion requiring you to have the province fully cored and stated. Instead it will be a soft block coming from conversion now going to be real expensive. So to be extra clear, you will be able to convert any province again, it will just cost you a bucket load of ducats.

The idea is to have a non-linear cost increase based on the autonomy of the province you are trying to convert. At the moment this is up still for being tweaked and balanced but the raw formula for the yearly cost for all math geeks: base cost + dev factor * development ^ ( autonomy base + local autonomy * autonomy factor) * local/global missionary maintenance cost

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-3.png

Which monthly cost for a 20 development province can be visualized like this with all base and factors being set to 1 and no modifier to the missionary maintenance cost.

It does mean while converting the 100% autonomy territories of 3 dev will cost extra, it won’t be that super more expensive. But if you for instance have Samarkand for some reason try to convert it while it not being cored and states, it’s going to cost you a fair deal.

Following with this change, since missionaries are now actually gonna ask you to pay up, we’ve also changed a bit on how the maintenance slider works for them. Previously you could avoid paying any cost because you just needed to have enough strength on it’s own as the slider only affected the base values of missionary strength. Second if you did lower the slider and could make progress before, but without those 2% you will get a hard stop on any progress to the conversion. Now instead the slider decides how much of your conversion speed is actually generated, so if you are making progress on the conversion and lower it, it will instead lower the amount of progress you get.

So if you are paying dough, you have enough strength, it will always generate some progress for you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-29.png


Also with this change it means I've reworked the missionary tooltip also a bit, since missionaries can cost differently depending on where you can see them, it will list all your active missionaries and their cost.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-34.png


And here's a collection of the balance changes we've covered today.
- Gamebalance: Missionary maintenance cost now costs development^(1+local autonomy)
- Gamebalance: Missionary Maintenance no longer only operates on the base strength but instead it is a percentage of how much progress you get. So now as long as you pay money, you will always get some progress.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 3rd idea buffed to 20 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 4th idea switched out to be -50% Rival Border Fort Maintenance & -20% CoT Upgrade Cost(Dharma).
- Gamebalance: Expansion 6th idea switched out to be 1 colonist & 5% Settler Chance
- Gamebalance: Expansion Finisher now gives +5 States instead of Maintenance
- Gamebalance: Innovative 2nd idea switched out to be 50% Innovativeness Gain(Rule Britannia) or -5% Idea Cost(Non-Rule Britannia).
- Gamebalance: Innovative 5th idea switched out to be 25% Institution Spread.
- Gamebalance: Religious 4th idea buffed to have 2 Tolerance of Own Faith.
- Gamebalance: Religious 6th idea switched out to be -50% Missionary Maintenance Cost.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 3rd idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heretic.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 7th idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heathens.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 1st idea switched to 100% Naval Tradition from Trade.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 6th idea switched to +1 Free Leader and -25% Admiral Cost
- Gamebalance: Maritime 7th idea buffed to give +25% Privateering efficiency.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 1st idea and 2nd idea switched places.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 4th idea nerfed to 10 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 5th idea tariffs nerfed to 10% and given 20% Envoy Travel Time.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 6th idea switched to give -25% Expel Minority Cost or 5% Settler Chance without DLC.
- Gamebalance: Diplomatic 3rd idea switched out for 0.5 Prestige
- Gamebalance: Influence 2nd idea switched out for -15% subject liberty desire
- Gamebalance: Influence 4th idea switched out for +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Influence 6th idea lost +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Espionage 3rd idea lost 10% Province Trade Power Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 4th idea switched out for 20% AE Impact.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 5th idea buffed with Claim Fabrication onbehalf of Vassals.
- Gamebalance: Quantity 5th idea switched out for 33% Supply Limit Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Naval 4th idea switched out for 1 Yearly Naval Tradition.

That’s everything for today! Next week will be @neondt who will be going through a bunch of the country specific flavor for missions.
 
Last edited:
Why doesn't Denmark get any specific naval modifications? Everyone knows the danish navy was one of the most powerful in Europe at the time, before the british stole it in the early 19th century. If Sweden gets one, then Denmark definitely also should. Unless this is another case of swedish favoritism, at the expense of Denmark. Furthermore, why doesn't England get any specific naval modifiers? England definitely had the most powerful navy in the world at the timespan of this game. I know this is a Iberian centered dlc, but if you are making lasting modifiers to the navy, then you really should acknowledge the actual naval powerhouses of Europe, and give them some modifiers as well.
 
Do you have any data on average game length and how far ingame particular idea groups are taken? Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling there is going to be a bias in your dataset if you don't account for this. If on average most games only last the first hundred or so years, you're going to see more exploration/expansion picks as this is probably the best time to get those if you want to colonize. At the same time, early game it is more important to keep up with Mil tech, so Mil ideas (that don't provide immediate significant benefit) will be underrepresented, and Dip ideas overrepresented as Dip tech isn't as important.

If you don't account for this, you can't really say anything about which idea groups are under- or overpowered..

EDIT: This might have come across a bit more aggresive than intended.. I'm just curious about your dataset :)
This is definitely true. I also wonder if they have data on which groups get abandoned most often, because I'd bet that Exploration would dominate that overwhelmingly. With these changes that is only going to become more frequent. Instead of straight nerfs they should have focused on giving Exploration more staying power for the late game. Currently the only reason to keep it is the tariffs, which between this change and the recalculation in 1.27 have been nerfed to utter trash, and the extra naval forcelimit.
 
For the balancing changes, I'm glad you guys included evidence of what groups are picked the most. From a development perspective I'd say the popularity of a group is one of the best indications of its power, so I can see the logic you're using. However, the breakdown shown is bizarre. People pick Administrative and Diplomatic less than Expansion and Trade? What???

Further thoughts:
  • The change to Religious looks like a large nerf from what it was in 1.24 and before. Why are you guys doing this? Converting people is far inferior to just tolerating everyone, and people aren't choosing Religious ideas with a special zeal. Why are you guys targeting it so much?
  • Nerfing Influence is good because it was powerful, but losing the -20% AE really hurts it. I might not take it at all now. I thought you guys were trying to promote vassal use?
  • The slight nerf on Humanist is good.
  • The change to Quantity is interesting. I'm not sure if it's a nerf or a buff.
  • Buffing Expansion is good, but it's not enough to be worthwhile. Passively colonizing is a very inefficient use of resources.
  • Flagships will make doomstack vs. doomstack even more prevalent. Is this what you wanted?
 
Well, Maritime is dead and Naval is still not worth taking. Now what?
I also think Exploration and Expansion should have stayed the way they were. Exploration being colonization centered and Expansion providing a small but ultimately unnecessary boost. If you want Expansion to be good, buff it but why would you wreck Exploration at the same time? This is just stupid.

This stinks, I wanted to have the new provinces but I guess all I can do is skip the DLC and stay with 1.27 unless the new 'balance' changes are actually balanced or taken out by the community with mods.

EDIT: Spelling
 
For the balancing changes, I'm glad you guys included evidence of what groups are picked the most. From a development perspective I'd say the popularity of a group is one of the best indications of its power, so I can see the logic you're using. However, the breakdown shown is bizarre. People pick Administrative and Diplomatic less than Expansion and Trade? What???

We were surprised over bunch of the findings as well. But there's nothing wrong, I double checked with the programmers exactly how the data was collected and what it was so I could be as clear as possible in the DD.

I can see some reason by a majority of the player base will be picking a thing because they like the idea of it, not because they are power gaming it. Obviously we are not doing balance changes just because of the numbers here.
 
We were surprised over bunch of the findings as well. But there's nothing wrong, I double checked with the programmers exactly how the data was collected and what it was so I could be as clear as possible in the DD.
It’s obviously because a large portion of players don’t know or care how powerful an idea group is. Sometimes they just want to full focus colonisation, and to that end pick expansion. This doesn’t make expansion any less weak.
 
Hey, great work! I am sure this patch will open up a lot more varieties in the game.

But navy is still borderline useless, unless it is tied more closely to Trade & Land war (e.g. improve coastal supply drastically).
 
This is terrible.
Cool new naval mechanics all for those but why the hell doessweeden get a buff and GB doesnt, GB has probably the most iconic flagships of all time like the golden hind and victory but They get nothing.
Like the changes to religious and humanist,
Expansion and explorarion changes are horrible, colonisation is too slow anyway especially now that your adding more provinces in the new world and colonial regions, but now your pretty much forcing people to take both exploration and expansion to colonise properly which is terrible.
There was no need to gut influence, it didnt need any changes, you prob did it because diplomatic is less popular but everyone acknowledges that diplomatic is a great idea group you didnt need to remove those things from influence especially since they make sense in influence.
also maritime and naval are still pretty useless, the other military idea groups are fine and dont need to be changed but i like that quantity change though.
Also your all about balence here when are you gonna fix anglican, it needs a massive buff, and youve just nerfed it even more now that anyone can get the bonus inovativeness gain
And yes i litteraly just made this account to post this comment
 
- Gamebalance: Espionage 3rd idea lost 10% Province Trade Power Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 4th idea switched out for 20% AE Impact.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 5th idea buffed with Claim Fabrication onbehalf of Vassals.

Almost no one will pick espionage so long as it remains weighed down with trash ideas like +1 diplomat or embargo efficiency. None of these switches change that fact. -20% AE would be a good start, but replacing liberty desire reduction means trading one decent idea for another, while leaving all the trash ones in place.

If you want more people to pick espionage, either introduce assassinations as the finisher and/or nerf all spy network construction speed by 5x globally and then make the first idea of espionage +400% construction speed. And make it cost lots of money like missionaries, with a discount coming from espionage ideas.
 
Almost no one will pick espionage so long as it remains weighed down with trash ideas like +1 diplomat
Mate, I used to take Aristocratic on the strength of it having a Diplomat.

+1 Diplomat might or might not be mechanically exciting, but it sure as hell makes life a lot more pleasant. Also, Espionage pretty much needs +1 Diplomat, since it's an idea group whose central premise is "make more use of your spy network" and so you're going to be increasing the level of demand for long-term allocation of diplomats.
 
Obviously we are not doing balance changes just because of the numbers here.
This sounds sound, but I'd also trust the numbers a lot. Opinions can be more or less aggressive, and some people can throw their weight into discussions just because they have a lot of free time, but numbers do not lie. If I am aggressive on forums and spread my ideas a lot it doesn't mean that I am right.
 
The main problem with the ideas is that the game at it's current state is so heavily loaded with all kinds of modifiers thanks to all the DLC and fluff that the ideas have difficult time competing with them and the idea groups are much less influential than they used to be. For example additional diplomats are not that attractive anymore when you get them from goverment rank. With colonial nations and trade companies you can be swimming in merchants.
 
Agreed.
???

The current counter of redundant feature fluff for the upcoming DLC is on 4, reworks are none...
They are at least looking at stuff which is more than what they did in Dharma and Rule Britannia which made problems even worse (money flood).

Problem is with PDX Dlc structure any reworks have to be financed by DLC sales. And with small Immersion Packs the effort which can be put into said reworks is kinda limited.
In hindsight, immersion packs were a bad idea.
 
We were surprised over bunch of the findings as well. But there's nothing wrong, I double checked with the programmers exactly how the data was collected and what it was so I could be as clear as possible in the DD.

I can see some reason by a majority of the player base will be picking a thing because they like the idea of it, not because they are power gaming it. Obviously we are not doing balance changes just because of the numbers here.

Groogy, gotta try a bit harder, make us want to pick the groups. When we decide we want to invest slot and monarch points it needs to be worthwhile. Some changes you introduced look quite good (religious - humanist, exploration - expansion) why not try to do same with others? Feels like you stopped at 1/2 a job done.

Take Maritime - if i pick that i want to be strong for sea-based nation and get some power & money from there. You took away power for some reason...Its lackluster group. What do i get... some navy tradition thats hard to quantify, 0.7 ducats from ship maintenance... sailors lol. You see where's this going.
Espionage - you made that group important for AE reduction, and diplomatic thing, but keep that useless rebel suppression thing as finisher. Worst finisher ever. Policies are awful also for espionage. I would like from this group to help me reduce AE, speed up conquest and put my diplomats to work wars and for example handle my problem - my rebels.. SInce if i go fabricate and conquer new land i will need rebel handling help. I don't want to waste money on helping timurids crash 3 months earlier than usual.

For good counter-example, take Administrative: i want to conquer half the world.. great discount for coring, cheaper mercs that i will need a lot and some extra stated. Awesome.
Quantity - i want to fight all around so i get plenty of soldiers - awesome.
Economy - i want to develop all my land to super high level and spam manufactories there. This group allows that - awesome.

Idea group is huge investment, it needs to be worthwhile and have visible impact.
 
Mate, I used to take Aristocratic on the strength of it having a Diplomat.

+1 Diplomat might or might not be mechanically exciting, but it sure as hell makes life a lot more pleasant. Also, Espionage pretty much needs +1 Diplomat, since it's an idea group whose central premise is "make more use of your spy network" and so you're going to be increasing the level of demand for long-term allocation of diplomats.

+1 diplomat is useful for some time, but the value doesn't last. Eventually you reach a point where you have good relations/spy network with everyone you want, and your diplomats have less and less to do. Other ideas will keep paying back, but the extra diplomat will be diminishing returns in the long run.

More importantly, spy network construction should be something that only espionage can do decently, just as with missionaries and religious ideas. That would give espionage some kind of unique thing it can offer, at least.