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EU4 - Development Diary - 3rd of October 2017

Good day all, today is a very exciting Tuesday, as we'll be coming to the conclusion of our EU4 Dev Clash Multiplayer Campaign, complete with trophies and congratulations to the winners and commiserations to those who did not make it to the Top 3. We'll be live over at our twitch page at the usual time of 1500 CEST.

Until then though, let's cover a few more changes we have in store in the upcoming Persia Update and it's accompanying expansion. Last week we covered changes over in Persia, so today let's look over towards Anatolia.

Firstly, let's talk the Ottoman Government. This recently introduced government type is a strong boon to the Ottoman nation, but as of the Persia Update it will be attainable for other nations too via the decision to Restore the Sultanate of Rûm.

decision.jpg


Any ambitious Turkish nation can, after wiping tactfully removing Ottomans and Byzantium from the map, take the decision to form Rûm. The requirements will also ask that they hold key provinces in the region. This will grant their nation a new name, flag, colour and National Ideas for their Sultanate of Rûm.

Rum.jpg


RUM_ideas = {
Traditions = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
land_morale = 0.1
}
Ambition= {
land_forcelimit_modifier = 0.25
}
trigger = {
tag = RUM
}
free = yes

rum_abul_fath = {
discipline = 0.05
}
"We have enemies in all directions making a strong army is a necessity for a state such as ours. Fortunately we are not a weak people. From the irregular Gazis and the Akinci raiders to the Sipahis of the Ottoman Empire the world have come to know the military might of the Turkish people. Let us build an army for an Empire, taking inspiration from wherever military competence can be found while also drawing from the strengths and experiences of those that came before us."

rum_king_of_the_east_and_west = {
core_creation = -0.20
num_accepted_cultures = 1
}
"Since the fall of Rûm the Turkish people have been divided, serving minor beys from the bosphorus to the mountains of Kurdistan. It was our duty to restore the legacy of the Seljuk Sultans of Rûm and unite the Anatolian Turks. Our ambition however must be much higher than that. The Seljuk Turks once ruled one of the greatest empires known to man, it is evident to anyone who sees our empire that the restoration of this state is now our destiny, as is the reclamation of the Roman lands that were once ruled from what is now our heartland."

rum_shahanshah = {
legitimacy = 1
}
"Rûm was not only an Anatolian state but also one that strongly honored the Persian traditions of kingship. Especially as Persia itself fell to Mongol conquerors. Under the sultans before us Persianate culture blossomed and Persian poets and scholars found patronage. Men such as Najm-al-Din Razi, Qane'i Tusi, Baha'-al-Din Walad and Rumi himself made their homes under Rûm’s protection and the Sultans themselves were versed in Persian literature and poetry.\nWe must cherish our Persian legacy as well as our Turkish and aspire to make our homeland a paragon of Persianate culture, the foremost of Islamic nations."

rum_sultan_of_rum = {
tolerance_heathen = 3
}
"The Sultans of Rûm ruled over the people of Anatolia, Muslims and Christians. It was during their reign that Islam became the dominant religion in the region but their policies accepted all subjects. Often inviting even Christians from the nearby lands to seek out the domain of Rûm. We would do well to learn from their example."

rum_sulan_al_bahrayn = {
naval_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
}
"Like the Rûm sultans of the past we must establish a strong and durable navy that can withstand both Christian pirates and the fleets of other Muslims. The ability to control and expand over the Mediterranean and protect our coastlines is going to be one of the main challenges of our Empire."

rum_sultan_al_muazzam = {
build_cost = -0.15
}
"The greatest of Sultans require grand monuments and buildings. Let us make the lands of Rûm the envy of the Islamic world, with mosques, madrasas, caravanserai, gardens, canals and palaces unlike any other. Through architectural patronage we can create an enduring and unique legacy for our dynasty."

rum_protector_of_dar_al_islam = {
global_heretic_missionary_strength = 0.03
}
"Our predecessors were always ready to defend the righteous and to combat the spread of heretical sects. So too must we do our utmost to promote the pure forms of religious worship and limit the the influence of heretical rulers who would otherwise try to seduce and mislead the faithful."
}
Click to expand...

So with Ottoman Government attainable, we also have some new toys for them to play with.

As part of the accompanying expansion, the Ottoman Government will have access to Pashas and Janissaries

Firstly Pashas. In States, a nation with Ottoman Government can assign a Pasha. This will reduce unrest and the State maintenance cost for those provinces while also raising the cost of new buildings and units from them. This will prove useful in keeping costs and revolts down in provinces far from the capital, however revoking a Pasha will result in increased unrest for 10 years.

pasha.jpg


Janissaries on the other hand, have seen some changes. No longer a countrywide boon for all units, the Janissaries are now special elite units. These can be recruited for a set cost of 50MIL from a given state. For every 10 development of heathen-faith land in a state, 1 Janissary unit will be spawned, making high-development concentrations of wrong-religion land desirable . These special units cost twice as much to reinforce but are able to withstand damage much better, taking 10% less shock and fire damage in battle. Similarly, the Janissary Decadence disaster has been altered, now to fire if a nation relies too heavily on Janissaries relative to their forcelimit.

You know I think it's not fair that we look so much at the Ottomans. For the upcoming Persia Update, it's actually the Mamluks who start in 1444 with higher development between the two. We'll take a look at what we have in store for them but that'll have to wait for next week, as there are trophies to polish for now.

See you next week!
 
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ElGranCapitan said:
Basicly there's 2 ways around this, either buff those countries and basicly railroad history so that all big countries enjoy the success that the Ottomans currently do or give more tags at least a fair chance. Mamluks conquering the Ottomans isn't less likely than Burgundy or England beating France (alone)
Click to expand...
yyyyyes it actually is. While it's true the Mamluks were amazingly competent and a very large power, at the time of the Ottoman war they were completely incompetent and stood almost no chance of victory.

Burgundy on the other hand was going up up up, and many in France feared that it would soon become greater than France itself. It was over-aggression sparking a coalition combined with an incompetent King dying on the field that doomed them.
 
@DDRJake

Do Janissaries cost manpower to reinforce?

Do Janissaries spawn with 100 men like banners? Or full strength?

hashinshin said:
yyyyyes it actually is. While it's true the Mamluks were amazingly competent and a very large power, at the time of the Ottoman war they were completely incompetent and stood almost no chance of victory.
Click to expand...
I'm sure the Mamluk government will model tha-

Oh look, +2 admin ruler rolls.

Main issue is mediocre idea set, the problem is many upgrades also destroy government form. I'm sure someone will figure it out.
 
can we be allowed to recruit cossa-janissary banners from Manchu primary culture Eastern tech Ottoman government countries with heathen Manchu states

ty, they might actually be worth the 50 MIL cost then
 
Black Turtle said:
Turks basically won with numbers and by stealing European technology like cannons. If it hadn 't been for Orban Ottomans would never have taken Constantinople. Janissaries as a whole weren't on part with the average European infantry in that age.
Click to expand...
Stop with these myths, the Europeans did not invent cannons, the Muslims were the first to utilize cannons as early as Al-Andalus. Spanish writers even talk about how when besieging a Muslim city, many Christians were killed by a loud weapon they had not seen before. Numbers do not win battles that easily, everyone doesn't fight at once and most don't even get to fight, what wins battles is better generals. Janissaries were trained from birth, and were the most elite armies to exist at that time. Not to mention most of the wars fought by the Ottomans against the Europeans were when the Europeans outnumbered the Ottomans, often just the Ottomans vs a dozen European nations
 
spaninq said:
@DDRJake Are Janissaries only infantry? or do they spawn cavalry units as well (a la banners)?
Click to expand...
Six Divisions of Cavalry or Kapikulu Sipahis were the elite cavalry units of Ottoman Empire Army. They were raised like Janissaries and their numbers were as much as 20k towards the end of the 16th century. They were even more prestigious than the Janissaries because their main duty in peacetime was to collect "jizyah", the tax for non-Muslims, and it was almost 15% of the income in the 16th century.
 
Some of yall are talking like the Ottomans should be able to kill everyone except Ming at gamestart.

The Ottomans were smart, not space marines. They played history like a good player plays EU4, they were far from invincible, especially in 1444. Now, yes, the largest threats to them (namely, the Mamluks) were in a terrible state, but so were they- any one of them could have "rolled a better leader" so to speak, ESPECIALLY the Mamluk sultanate. Indeed, the Ottomans were afraid of them around this time period, and spent their time getting strong enough to beat them- they didnt start there, for sure. Especially with the fact that the Ottomans had just been through a Crusade and hadnt even fully recovered from Timur at 1444. They can and should be nerfed from how they were in the game before.

Also, the Jannisaries werent space marines either- they were trained, as represented by the drill mechanic and idea group selection moreso than any innate attribute. The Ottomans still have the economic situation to drill well on top of these troops, which, while not on par with banners, are probably generally better than Streltzy and allow the Ottomans to use their economic advantage (which was their clearest advantage ESPECIALLY early on) to fight their enemies. The Ottomans can still meet and surpass their history. They also have some great missions and events alongside a great government type, so... dont lose your heads over them being brought down to historical marks. They're still one of the best ways to do WC- we dont know about Mughals, and Rum seems about equal (harder to achieve but better overal) and Byzantium in around the same ballpark.

Now, Muscovy could probably use some nerfs...
 
OcoBri said:
When is this available? How do I know if it has been updated through steam?
Click to expand...

It won't be out for a while. Maybe little over a month.
 
SchlomoShekelberg said:
Stop with these myths, the Europeans did not invent cannons, the Muslims were the first to utilize cannons as early as Al-Andalus. Spanish writers even talk about how when besieging a Muslim city, many Christians were killed by a loud weapon they had not seen before. Numbers do not win battles that easily, everyone doesn't fight at once and most don't even get to fight, what wins battles is better generals. Janissaries were trained from birth, and were the most elite armies to exist at that time. Not to mention most of the wars fought by the Ottomans against the Europeans were when the Europeans outnumbered the Ottomans, often just the Ottomans vs a dozen European nations
Click to expand...

Scientific mainstream says that cannons were invented by the Chinese and then brought into the Islamic and Christian world by the Mongols. Invention by christians or muslims is in my opinion nationalistic fringe science

Also regarding outnumbered, I'm really interested what you are talking about. I looked at several wars between the Ottomans and Christian countries and the Ottomans almost always fielded more troops than their enemies. When did the Ottomans fight a war, not a single battle, with numerical disadvantage?
 
ElGranCapitan said:
Scientific mainstream says that cannons were invented by the Chinese and then brought into the Islamic and Christian world by the Mongols. Invention by christians or muslims is in my opinion nationalistic fringe science
Click to expand...
I think "invention" here would mean "significant improvements", either in construction or use, not from scratch.
 
ElGranCapitan said:
Scientific mainstream says that cannons were invented by the Chinese and then brought into the Islamic and Christian world by the Mongols. Invention by christians or muslims is in my opinion nationalistic fringe science

Also regarding outnumbered, I'm really interested what you are talking about. I looked at several wars between the Ottomans and Christian countries and the Ottomans almost always fielded more troops than their enemies. When did the Ottomans fight a war, not a single battle, with numerical disadvantage?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about gunpowder in fireworks and the like?

Europe/Muslim was the first to take gunpowder and use in cannons.
 
ElGranCapitan said:
Nope, not fireworks, the oldest known cannon is the Wuwei cannon from China and is dated between 1040 and 1220.
Click to expand...

Those were more of hand-hold anti-infantry kind of deal. As opposite to wall braking cannon.

However interesting nevertheless.
 
Temudhun Khan said:
I hope Mamluks will have a special government type, maybe shared with the janissaries when they take over Turkey.
Click to expand...
Actually, Mamluk word comes from special mamluk troop. It means slave. They were slave soldiers, their commanders kept Mamluk Sultanate; they fought each other to aquire it. I think they will add special troops to the Mamluks.
 
To all of those who whine about "nerfing" the Ottoman troops. Do you all forget that they still have an average 2-3 pip advantage per unit type until 1650? A unit with such a pip advantage taking 10% less dmg from all sources is pretty strong, especially in early game when there are devestating shock phases.
The power from the Ottomans in early arent only the 5% disc and 10% inf CA but the pip advantage of the units to provide such huge damage.
 
I like the changes. Maybe they do need slight tweaks as some here have suggested but overall it's an improvement.

One thing i would like to see with this update: countries should be willing to peace out much sooner than now. Instead, AI doesn't mind going into huge debt while very obviously in a losing war. This sometimes results in bankruptcy and then annihilation by another tag.

Also, AI's AE should be looked at again. Whenever Ottomans can eat 1/3rd of Hungary ( non co- belligerent) while at war with Bosnia, no coalitions form. Likewise when they eat half out Qara. This in my view is as much of a problem with blobby nations such as Russia and Ottomans as are their national ideas.

And why does the emperor not gain anything from demanding unlawful territory ? No opinion modifier, no authority... Nada.
 
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