EU4 - Development Diary - 6th of August 2019

[Stanleykubrick]

Maybe I am wrong, but my understanding is that mercenaries are instantly recruited in any of provinces that you choose and that you can select any company within your trade range.

If this is the case isn't it a bit silly that e.g. an Aztec / Indian / African mercenary company can instantly pop-up in Lisbon if Portugal hires them?

 

[zweihander]

Would you make mercenary-specific unit model pack?

 

[Charles F.Muntz]

I like it! Itl change the game. I especially like the fact they have their own generals and ideas. I do think though if you can't merge you should at least be able to attach them like you can to allied units and vassals, with maybe an adjustment to how attached armies effect their movement speed so everyone arrives if not at the same time then at least closer together.

I also really don't think they should get your nations buffs though otherwise if your rich why have your own force at all? Why not just give them buffs based on where they are from and their cultural origin, their composition and maybe how many wars they've fought? Like based off a Merc prestige system or something?

Also it would be cool if they had a loyalty modifier based off how you use them not necessarily for each individual Merc company but also for Mercs in general if your a nation who constantly throws Mercs away in mt seiges and bad battles especially without your armies to back them up or just high casualty rates in short periods of time in general then couldn't they be less likely to work for you and cost more? Or something like that anyway.

And lastly if any country can hire the Mercs specific to your nation why have them? Couldn't it at least be that enemy or hostile nations can't hire them because they don't want to fight for people assaulting their home province? And as a lot of other people have said if every country can hire the same company at the same time shouldn't that at least have an effect on their numbers and usefulness? Like wouldn't it make more sense if they have a total manpower pool and a set number of soldiers in the field. And a set number of nations who can hire them at once like 2 or 3? And have them each hire an even percentage of that so that the manpower gets split between the two or 3 evenly sort of like active and reserve regiments. It makes sense for multiple countries to hire them because it increase the chance of the companies survival and income but if they can be hired by everyone within reach at the same time it just feels like it would take away from immersion.

Stoked on the direction though!

 

[zweihander]

• Mercenaries are to use unit models fitting for their origin.

Thanks, this is exactly what I want. It is a great opputunity for we the unit modders.

 

[PrimeYuri]

Please be estates, please be estates

I'm more hoping for info on new Vassal management, HRE or catholicism.

 

[MatRopert]

is there a way for them to not get dogpiled the moment they lose a war?

Well one way could be to seek peace _before_ they reach a point where they are so utterly crushed that it would take years before they can offer some resistance to any neighbour not under a truce .

 

[Canis_Lupus]

Sounds really good, but please include condottieri Ships! Would be so much fun in MP to lend your fleets.

Came here just to say this, I've suggested it multiple times in the past and heard nothing. Can we *please* get naval condottieri

 

[Swerdtfeger]

Overall I disagree with the change to mercenaries. I think its the wrong change to a already problematic topic for multiplayer EU4.
Currently you have a META that advocates developing over fighting wars which is at some point simply a contest on who develops his provinces the best (If you are outside of Europe you already have a massive disadvantage but thats a different topic). This change will lead to even less wars in MP and will cripple offensive wars to a degree that they will be nearly useless for your nation.

The current problem for offensive wars is that you nearly always get forced into bad fights if the opponent has a good managment for forts etc. The attrition (which is something I actually like) makes most player use mercenaries for sieging and then reinforce the later battle with their other mercenaries and manpower troops at the end. The current change will probaly lead to a world where players cant siege a second or third fort without having thousands in attrition from their manpower pool - which will lead to the defender becoming even stronger in a warfare. With the new changes mercenaries become a more expensive normal unit that will have a lifespan of around 6-12 months in a offensive war. The decision to not make them mergeable will also lead to some bigger problems for proper managment for frontlines. You already said that we will get a change to manpower which is direly needed in that case. Otherwise I dont see that warfare becomes a thing that MP players will use without pulling a gank (Like 5vs1) war after the Admin 17 timing (University Building unlocked).
Furthermore this patch will probaly lead to certain nations becoming insanely OP in multiplayer. Manchu Banners and Russia will recieve a big buff with that.
I hope the manpower changes will be able to improve that certain aspect. If not I forsee big problems for actual entertaining wars in a already stale MP meta.

 

[Carmillus De Monteville]

In the first picture there are placeholder icons.
The "U" is probably units.
The "M" definitely mercenaries.
And the "T" stands clearly for Titans, massive late-game units consisting of a single stack, able to wipe complete armies!

 

[SPAMbuca]

Mercenaries will use your nation's military stats, then apply any of their own modifiers on top of that. We did not want to echo the situation in EU3, where mercenaries would end up clearly spending all your money on booze because they were too drunk to fight well.

It's not 100% clear to me. If you hire foreign mercs, will you get unit types based on your tech group or the company's location's tech group?

will (new) merc leaders get pips based on your army tradition or based on something else? Is it random or can we influence the quality of merc generals?

And the "T" stands clearly for Titans, massive late-game units consisting of a single stack, able to wipe complete armies!

I put my money on templates.

Well one way could be to seek peace _before_ they reach a point where they are so utterly crushed that it would take years before they can offer some resistance to any neighbour not under a truce .

A player might do that, but will the AI? Even so, a human player could simply ruin a large AI nation by wiping their manpower pool out before accepting peace. Dismantling large blobs like the Ottomans or Ming might become a lot more easy this way. But I'm not sure whether people would like that or not.

 

[zweihander]

In the first picture there are placeholder icons.
The "U" is probably units.
The "M" definitely mercenaries.
And the "T" stands clearly for Titans, massive late-game units consisting of a single stack, able to wipe complete armies!

I guess "T" stands for Tanks, but Titans is also a good assumption.

-------------------

BTW, what would happen if you hired a merc. company but run out of money so can't pay for it anymore?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(1527)

 

[FrogCrusher]

A side effect nobody talk about: trap by forts will be a thing again. Classical example of Barcelona where you can move less after winning the siege. I'm using quite often a 1k Merc stack to fix wrong ZoC.
So, what will happened if we can't rearrange armies with one Merc stack not having the same return province than regular armies??

 

[DDRJake]

This is like 80% of what I expected

Then I'd be curious to know what the other 20% was.

Changes sound good, but how will this affect the RNW nations and custom nations?

They're not in at the moment, but we highly desire having Random Mercenary Companies in the new world for RNW games.

Will you address the other source(s?) of inifinite manpower? Manchu banners for example. Maybe let them work with a small manpower pool like the mercenaries, and let them gain some manpower from looting?

Unlimited Manchu Banners will feel considerably less unlimited.

1. Does 'own modifiers' refer to the company-specific modifers, or to ideas like 'Mercenary Discipline +5%'?
2. What happens to national ideas with ideas specific to mercs, like the aforementioned 'Mercenary Discipline +5%', if companies also use the nation's military stats?

We're taking a broad look at said modifiers, and they will likely change by release. There will still be mercenary-only modifiers, but the likes of "available mercenaries +25%" from admin ideas are sure to change.

Anyways, as a player who doesn't use mercs much, I hope this new system gives it that added touch of flavor that makes using mercs fun/enjoyable. I'm also hoping this is a free feature... I'm sure there's plenty of other mechanics like [redacted] and [redacted] to go into the [redacted] dlc.

Mercenary Companies will be part of the free European Update coming next year.

How will mercenary armies actually look, composition-wise? Would be a shame if some of them weren't worth paying for due factors like too much cavalry and stuff. Is there some kind of formula or entirely random? Maybe it depends on where you buy them too?

The composition, among other things, is scripted for the companies. as an example:

# Mesopotamian Mamluks
merc_mesopotamian_mamluks = {
    regiments_per_development = 0.075
    cavalry_weight = 0.4
    artillery_weight = 0.2
    home_province = 410
    trigger = {
        religion_group = muslim
        capital_scope = {
            region = mashriq_region
        }
    }
    modifier = {
        cavalry_power = 0.1
        cavalry_shock = 0.1
    }
}

As for the compositions, as well as the costs, these numbers are far from final.

Would be nice, if you couldn't attack countries with their one companies.

Will there be new events? Like if you hire Swiss company and start the war against the Swiss will they rebel?

There will be events tied to Mercenary Companies

Whats more, does that mean that we will have a real Rework of colonial nations (and colonization)?

Colonisation rework is not part of the scope for the upcoming European Update.

Does the Merchant thing means that we have to have assigned Merchant to a Company, or to a Trade Node they reside in?

Trade range will suffice for accessing Mercenary Companies, no need to actually assign merchants.

1. How did you come up with 10 years? Randomly or through testing?

All first implementations have a reasonable estimation for best value, but they seldom survive first contact with actual playtesting. The values shown in this dev diary should not be taken as final, and will be balanced out in the sizeable journey towards release. We may find that a 10-year delay on re-hiring the same merc company works best, or that it's wildly too short or too long, and will balance accordingly.

Strategic planning?
What's strategic about it?
If it's about SP then the player will always hire the mercenary company before AI, because he is simply smarter
If it's about MP, then the player who has a lot of money or just first made the decision to declare a war will hire the mercs first.
There's 0 strategy behind it

This is largely the thought behind not making merc companies simply be first come first served.

How do you get the mercenary troop?
Does they spawn in your country or does they will walk thu the country(ies) to get in?

Can you hire mercenaries from your enemy /rival?


My opinion on these 2 questions are, I would personally prefer having the mercenaries walking to get to your border in a uncontrolled way and peacefully (meaning they can't get ambushed). And I think that you should not be able to hire mercenary from your enemies, rival and historical rival as well.

I am looking forward an answer from you guys.

Mercenary Companies can be hired so long as their province of origin is within your trade range, even if that province is owned by your bitter war rival, and they will be spawned in any of your core provinces. We briefly considered having them spawn exiled in their origin, and the buyer would have to march / ship them home, but this had too many issues with intended functionality. For example: landlocked Brunswick would have trouble hiring Scottish Mercenaries to fight in their conflicts.

 

[PatrykCXXVIII]

Mercenaries are to use unit models fitting for their origin.

Will we be able to choose which one (Infantry, Cavalry or Artillery) like in HoI4? Too often I see artilleries instead of horses when I play Poland. ;/

 

[-Temple-]

Can we get an option to attach the merc army to our armies, like the attach button we use to attach our army to an ally's army?

 

[Vohen]

Well one way could be to seek peace _before_ they reach a point where they are so utterly crushed that it would take years before they can offer some resistance to any neighbour not under a truce .

Will the AI actually be able to do that though?

as was pointed out earlier, attaching doesn't solve the issue of manoeuvre modifier discrepancy. That won't do.

I see, there's the solution of using the lowest common denominator, but that would probably become exploitative for fort mechanics, so for that I'd suggest that the unit uses the ZoC path from the largest stack.
If the Merc stack is larger than your army, use their pathing, and vice versa.
I figure a lot of exploits can be avoided that way.

HRE or catholicism

That'd also be nice, but the estates rework is by far the mechanic I have the highest expectations for.
That's only due to the potential they have for truly representing internal politics of a nation, something that's quite lacking in EU4 in its current form.

Vassal management

Will that be a thing? Haven't heard of it, but if so, nice!

 

[Robska]

Mercenaries will use your nation's military stats, then apply any of their own modifiers on top of that. We did not want to echo the situation in EU3, where mercenaries would end up clearly spending all your money on booze because they were too drunk to fight well.

Wouldnt it be better and make more sense if the mercenaries have their own military quality, entirely separate from the hiring nation? For example the average military stats of the origin continent will determine the stats of these mercenaries in that continent. This would make it so that a "non military" nation can rely on mercenaries to punch above its weight while a nation like France might be better off with a professional standing army.

As far as I know that is what happened in real life. For example the Dutch didnt have a profesional army in the early stages of the eighty years war and relied heavily on mercenaries to tackle, unsuccessful, the might of the Spanish empire. When Maurice of Nassau rolled around and reformed the military the Dutch started, over time, to rely less on mercenaries and formed a more professional standing army.

 

[Ololorium]

Well one way could be to seek peace _before_ they reach a point where they are so utterly crushed that it would take years before they can offer some resistance to any neighbour not under a truce .

Are there war mechanics/AI changes, so not every war is a total war of annihilation? Will AI now be seeking quick truce for a couple of provinces and a bit of money if outnumbered and losing battles instead of wasting all manpower, money and losing half of the country as a result of carpet sieging, and accepting such truce from a player in most circumstances? If so, I love the new update already.

 

[Tira]

In the 30 years war the number of available mercenaries increased, because war became a much more lucrative business for the people than being robbed peasants. So will the devastation of provinces increase the manpower of mercenaries? It would be a nice balance compensation for nations plagued by war.

 

[priamossz]

DDRJake when will we see a new devclash? the merc change combined with all the different changes including the still not shown changes makes the game considerably different and would be nice to see it in action.