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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
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Debasing currency doesn't make your economy better. Previous bonus from Abolish the mestnichestvo +10% production efficiency is was good, in my opinion.
Free money = better economy. I don't feel like doing the math, but I believe that a free loan every 20 years (which is what -0,1 yearly corruption essentially means) should usually be worth more than what 10 % production efficiency will earn you in 20 years.
 
Which events for Bosnia and Serbia would you like to see?

And what would about ideas would you improve?

For a Serbian event off the top of my head i can think of Irene Kantakouzene, wife of despot Đurađ Branković, starting ruler of Serbia. As it was well known she ordered chicken eggs to be used in construction of the fortresses which made the mortar much sturdier and made peasantry much more uppity than usual. It can give Serbia say +20% fort defense for the cost of +1rr for a period of 10 years. Or something related to Despot Stefan Lazarevic.
-edit-
Or why not a simple negative event that would portray the difficult situation Serbia found itself in at the time the game starts, god knows that there is enough material for that.

As for Serbian ideas i had this in mind to paint them more accurately, note that it's only a small tweak:

Traditions:
+15%
Manpower recovery speed
+15% Reinforce speed
Code of Laws
−1
National unrest
The Patriarchate of Serbia
−10%
Stability cost modifier
Home of the Hussars
+15%
Cavalry combat ability
(maybe add -10% cav cost on top if the gods of paradox deem it appropriate)
Bastion of Orthodoxy
+10%
Morale of armies
Gold Mines
+10%
Production efficiency
Mercenary Armies
−25%
Mercenary maintenance
Balkan Hajduks
+10%
Infantry combat ability
Ambitions:
+2.5%
Discipline

Remove Alemannic guard and put this idea in it's place:
The Patriarchate of Serbia
Description: The Patriarchate of Serbia was established in 1346, uniting the people under their own religious head.
Effect: -10% stability cost

Swap it with Bastion of orthodoxy that would now give 10% morale instead, home of the hussars would loose cavalry cost and get the allemanic guard bonus instead and Balkan hajduks would now give 10% infantry combat ability (the old ambition) and as a new ambition add 2.5% discipline.

Early morale bonus would help Serbia a whole lot, since it doesn't get much army quality until you unlock all of the ideas. In other words, only effects that are changed are the loss of cavalry cost and addition of 2.5% disc, as well as the order of ideas.

Reason for discipline is simple: Serbian revolution (or Serbian uprising) started in 1804 that led to de facto independence in 1817, that is within the time frame of the game.
Most of the rebel leaders served in the Austrian army, and they understood the importance of discipline and enforced it in various means, from the leader of the rebellion hanging his brother for the rape of a woman, forcing a certain regiment of soldiers to cut their hair short as it was disadvantageous to have a long hair in battle, going to great lengths to force troops to keep formation and order of battle, also numerous other examples written in the legislature. This all represents discipline. Reason it is 2.5% is that i don't think Serbia should have a discipline bonus equal to France or other major powers. It just represents an actual historical ambition - to discipline the army. Also if you factor in the success they had in the battles against Ottoman army i think a small discipline bonus is warranted, and it would round up Serbian ideas nicely.

Those are small tweaks i would like to see.
 
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Nononono. There is no reason for this. Maybe as ambition, but such ambition would be laughable. There were no true politics against other cultures, just Russian bred like hell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Massacres_of_indigenous_peoples

The Khanate of Sibir is a releasable (or playable after 1468) horde in EU4. Thus it does not strictly fall under colonisation in the EU4 sense. That's a good enough reason for the idea in my opinion.

Plus it's actually useful for Russia whereas -10% AE is generally regarded as a waste for Russia. I encourage you to suggest a replacement for -10% AE.
 
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia#Massacres_of_indigenous_peoples

Sorry, was thinking that you talked about tatars :)
Population of Siberian Khanate was integrated with its elites. Noticable fact: grandson of han Kuchum, which was captured in 1598, lived in Kasimov and became Han of Kasimov in 1614.

Yes, some of those events happened and it is represented by change of culture in province when you colonize it.
 
Turkish in levantine fits better, and makes Ottomans more powerful.
Surely this is no longer needed with the implementation of non-development based limit to cultural acceptance? Now the Ottomans can just add the Levantine cultures to accepted cultures. Especially if you make it so that Empire status give yellow-colored status to cultures in the same culture group as an accepted culture (i.e. giving the same toleration as cultures in the same culture group as the accepted culture would have in the accepted culture's own country).

As far as I've seen, the reaction to the moronic change in cultures has been greatly negative. It basically makes cultures pointless..
 
I have to say I'm not impressed by Russia's ideas. Arguably still powerful when compared to a bunch of "joke" nations, but they don't feel like RUSSIA to me. While NI's are technically not even needed for a half-decent player to kick butt and chew bubblegum, it's nice when they reflect the nations inherent potential.

Also, I don't often play past 1700(game is VERY boring to me at that point. point and conquer blegh). How good is 10% arty combat + -10% fire damage received?
 
I have to say I'm not impressed by Russia's ideas. Arguably still powerful when compared to a bunch of "joke" nations, but they don't feel like RUSSIA to me. While NI's are technically not even needed for a half-decent player to kick butt and chew bubblegum, it's nice when they reflect the nations inherent potential.
What should Russia feel like?

Also, I don't often play past 1700(game is VERY boring to me at that point. point and conquer blegh). How good is 10% arty combat + -10% fire damage received?
Not as good as +20% combat ability and -20% fire damage received, but good nonetheless. The fire phase is dominant in the second half of the game and these two ideas are very helpful.
 
What should Russia feel like?

Not as good as +20% combat ability and -20% fire damage received, but good nonetheless. The fire phase is dominant in the second half of the game and these two ideas are very helpful.

In my mind, once Russia is formed, it should feel... like the gates have been unlocked. Maybe they DO play like that, and I just need to put them to the test. I'll be the first to admit that.

I don't know how to separate quotes (I'm not usually on forums), so to the 2nd part: cool, ty. I'd imagined that was the case, but everyone here seems to have replied that they are useless compared to Muscovy's "quality" ideas. I'll agree that at first glance I think Muscovy ideas are better, but again, have yet to put them to the test.

-Cheers
 
In my mind, once Russia is formed, it should feel... like the gates have been unlocked. Maybe they DO play like that, and I just need to put them to the test. I'll be the first to admit that.

I don't know how to separate quotes (I'm not usually on forums), so to the 2nd part: cool, ty. I'd imagined that was the case, but everyone here seems to have replied that they are useless compared to Muscovy's "quality" ideas. I'll agree that at first glance I think Muscovy ideas are better, but again, have yet to put them to the test.

-Cheers
The Tsardom government form has yet to be revealed so we still do not know the full extent of Russian power. But the manpower and force limit ideas, no country has more than Russia (three have equal +33% manpower ideas). Also, Orthodox nations will get a seemingly easy +5% discipline and +10% manpower recovery from religious mechanics. All these things add up to give Russia a pretty strong late game military in my view.

[ QUOTE ]No spaces to quote[ /QUOTE ]
 
I don't know how to separate quotes
If you highlight parts of the post you want to quote, a toolbar should appear with "reply" and "+Quote" as options.

(I'm not usually on forums)
Using this method, it is quite easy.
And you should come on the forums more often, there are some interesting (and some less than interesting) on here :)
 
I am happy to see new provinces in Rus, but what's up with Muscovy being descendants of byzantine emperors? There were many families who could trace their lineage from byzantine emperors. Better name of this ide would be Third Rome.
 
My shark-jumping sense is tingling again.

MORE special mechanics that only apply to a small subset of countries? Yeah, I understand that's "realistic", but the game is already pretty darn hard for average people to grok a typical country they would want to play; to have so many special mechanics just jacks up the learning curve and pushes away even more potential players. Then you go and also throw in tons of new provinces, basically making regions even MORE powerful and hard to wield (and expensive), while doing nothing to temper the additional power and required effort (and cost).

This is not a new feeling.

It's okay to think something is really neat and want to talk about it. It's another to have 2000 sets of special rules to cover 2000 cultures, especially when there is already lots of stuff you've already got that needs to be refined or that doesn't really work well, like States. Don't forget: gameplay trumps excessive detail every time.
No idea why you get so many dislikes. The constant barrage of features that hardly interact with other features and are full of bugs (that are never fixed because each DLC only gets one bug-fixing patch) are the reason why I've taken a break from this game.
 
I may be alone in thinking this, but I'd really hoped that with this revamp Muscovy would be put in a much less dominant position--at least relative to the adjacent hordes. Mainly this is because Muscovy has it far, far too easy in the early game--the can sack Kazan as soon as they feel like it (pretty often happens before 1450), when historically they wouldn't have the consolidated strength to do that for another full century. The hordes are in decline in 1444, sure, but Muscovy was in no position to stomp its way down to the Black Sea.
 
I may be alone in thinking this, but I'd really hoped that with this revamp Muscovy would be put in a much less dominant position--at least relative to the adjacent hordes.
The awkward part is resolving the ripples that would ensue.
 
The awkward part is resolving the ripples that would ensue.
True enough, but it's just always stuck in my craw that Muscovy was their tributary in 1444, and in this they're a sword of Damocles hanging over the entire region. They really shouldn't be able to steamroll everyone nearby the way they always do, as early as they do.
 
So now I've learned that there's a town called Onega on a river called Onega, neither of which have anything to do with the lake called Onega. Geographic names are a mess and we should all just start again.
 
Is Serbia got discipline it'd be one of the strongest armies in the game. Is that really necessary? Manpower recovery, reinforce speed, infantry combat, cavalry combat, discipline? They'd blow Austria out of the water, be stronger than Hungary, and objectively challenge French ideas.

Now I'm not saying that countries should have weaker NIs if they're weaker, that's boring, but Serbia even in Vanilla is not a weak country, they're just in a shit position. Put them in Italy and you'd have BLATANTLY the strongest country.