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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
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I mean honestly, (and i'll admit that i'm definitely biased here) if there is something in terms of military stuff that Russian ideas should have - it would be morale bonus first and foremost.

Not necessarily on the level of Prussia or France, but 10% looks good. I mean, wtf, if Muscovy has it why not have it as Russia too? May be a finisher, but bonuses like +5% morale or 0.25 tradition even feel clunky.. and +1 legitimacy just rubs me a wrong way... almost anything would be better than this.
 
It's better. Not great, but better.
At least taking Russian ideas isn't a laughable decision now. Good to see them get some quality ideas, would still like to see it buffed just a wee bit more though so it can actually contend with it's likely rivals.
 
Ironically russia in 1.22 is currently OP as hell, with annexing Ottomans by 1650s.

Judging power on ideasets is a bit wromg.

The changes to the idea groups are nice but I am stil curious to see a Russia ai that has fully annexed the Ottomans by 1650. I have never seen them win against the Ottomans let alone do it so decisively and quickly.

Also kind of sad all the trade goods are getting nerfed over time.
 
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I sense a new achievement:

"As beloozero own all arctic provinces" although it may be a bit too close to the Perm achievement
Let's call it Below Zero.
 
That's awesome that said I have a suggestion when it comes to the cultural setup, novgorodian and Muscovite get's merged to just Russian, and some of novogrods northern province changes culture to pomoryan. Yes I know Pomoryans were probably not majority in nay province in 144 but still they are an actual culture which novgorodian isn't.
 
Maybe give fur provs in general low tax, low MP but high production? Like, idk, 1 5 1 to 3 6 3 for Archangelsk or 3 7 2 for Hlynov.

And maybe get a DHE for if a western monarchy has 5-10% or so trade share in a node owned by the owner of Perm and Western Siberia, about sable fur export, which rases fur price by a ducat or half?
 
Isn't it kind of strange that Muscovy is better at fighting than Russia? Why do Russian Ideas have no military bonuses? The Commonwealth is to their south with +Cav Combat, +Discipline, +Morale. I firmly believe that no player will ever take Russian Ideas and no AI with Russian Ideas will ever win against any of their natural rivals.

This is actually an absurdly bad idea set, like an idea set for a tier-3 nation.

I wholly agree. As a longtime Muscovy/Russia player, I think Muscovy is powerful enough as it is. Boosting them with positive modifiers to tax income and morale, plus adding a passive .5 military tradition per year, which in turn also increases you army morale - I think by around 10% per 40 tradition, will most probably make them a total steamroller and lead to ahistorical outcomes and AI blobbing.

I am curious if these changes to ideas are the result of testing and are final, or if they may be altered by the time the new patch is released.
 
There is already too much ideas centered aroung Peter. I think development discount could be better - representing FAST population growth and invitation of different europeans to settle (creating factories/manufactories or just settlements).
The Table of Ranks was introduced by Peter, but the Cadet Corps was broadened by Catherine (introduced by Anna Ioannovna), and the Mestnichestvo was abolished by Fyodor III (admittedly the same year Peter came to power). I don't know about the artillery idea, but it's the third idea which seems awfully early to be regarding Peter.

I don't think it's a bad thing to focus somewhat on Peter for Russia's ideas, he was arguably the most important Tsar of the time period.

I'm not a fan of development cost for Russia, it doesn't seem to fit the playstyle. And while you could say the same for ship cost, the latter is a far more uncommon idea.
 
The Table of Ranks was introduced by Peter, but the Cadet Corps was broadened by Catherine (introduced by Anna Ioannovna), and the Mestnichestvo was abolished by Fyodor III (admittedly the same year Peter came to power). I don't know about the artillery idea, but it's the third idea which seems awfully early to be regarding Peter.

I don't think it's a bad thing to focus somewhat on Peter for Russia's ideas, he was arguably the most important Tsar of the time period.

I'm not a fan of development cost for Russia, it doesn't seem to fit the playstyle. And while you could say the same for ship cost, the latter is a far more uncommon idea.


Two ideas for Peter at least :) Conscription and Table of Ranks.

Ivan III was on same level, tbh. Same can be said for Catherina II to some degree.

But it will suit logicaly and historically. :) And ship cost for Russia is...strange.
 
Maybe give fur provs in general low tax, low MP but high production? Like, idk, 1 5 1 to 3 6 3 for Archangelsk or 3 7 2 for Hlynov.

And maybe get a DHE for if a western monarchy has 5-10% or so trade share in a node owned by the owner of Perm and Western Siberia, about sable fur export, which rases fur price by a ducat or half?

I don't think there is any way to influence price of goods ever since they have moved away from dynamic pricing to more of a fixed predictable pricing rise and fall system.
 
To be honest, I would rather like to see a huge bonus to absolutism, rather then legitimacy. Historically, the Tsardom of Russia was one of the most pure autocracies in the entire world. You can read about that in "The Romanovs: 1613-1918". Due to this, there was never any kind of revolt from outer sources, bar the occasional fake son and polish separatist. With that in mind, the government type in Russia, should A) be always connected to the Romanovs, just like the Ottoman government and B) it should grant absurdly high bonuses for legitimacy and absolutism. I would go for around:
+5 legitimacy, effectively showing the never dying support for their autocrats
+3 absolutism and a cap that always allows for 100 absolutism, to show for the pure autocracy Russia was in its lifespan in game

For the absolutism, I would say that Russia should have a limitation on the discipline granted by absolutism, since Russias army was a lot of things, but it was never of high quality.

So I would argue that the last bonus should rather be a reduction in war exhaustion. The Russians were capable of burning their own capital and still fought on, so it would go for -0.10 to represent this.
 
To be honest, I would rather like to see a huge bonus to absolutism, rather then legitimacy. Historically, the Tsardom of Russia was one of the most pure autocracies in the entire world. You can read about that in "The Romanovs: 1613-1918". Due to this, there was never any kind of revolt from outer sources, bar the occasional fake son and polish separatist. With that in mind, the government type in Russia, should A) be always connected to the Romanovs, just like the Ottoman government and B) it should grant absurdly high bonuses for legitimacy and absolutism. I would go for around:
+5 legitimacy, effectively showing the never dying support for their autocrats
+3 absolutism and a cap that always allows for 100 absolutism, to show for the pure autocracy Russia was in its lifespan in game

For the absolutism, I would say that Russia should have a limitation on the discipline granted by absolutism, since Russias army was a lot of things, but it was never of high quality.

So I would argue that the last bonus should rather be a reduction in war exhaustion. The Russians were capable of burning their own capital and still fought on, so it would go for -0.10 to represent this.


First, Romanov family are also connected to Rurik dynasty.
Second, you are forgetting cossack rebellions. And, before total serfdom, there were some rebellion due to taxes after Time of Troubles.
 
the government type in Russia, should A) be always connected to the Romanovs
Currently the only way for the Romanov dynasty to come to power is through a disaster which is not guaranteed to happen and if it does is not very pleasant.

and B) it should grant absurdly high bonuses for legitimacy and absolutism. I would go for around:
+5 legitimacy, effectively showing the never dying support for their autocrats
+3 absolutism and a cap that always allows for 100 absolutism, to show for the pure autocracy Russia was in its lifespan in game

For the absolutism, I would say that Russia should have a limitation on the discipline granted by absolutism, since Russias army was a lot of things, but it was never of high quality.

So I would argue that the last bonus should rather be a reduction in war exhaustion. The Russians were capable of burning their own capital and still fought on, so it would go for -0.10 to represent this.
You're right that is absurd.
 
Eastern Europe overhaul, finally!
Anyway, we're adding 10% artillery_power to the artillery idea, and changing institution spread to 5% morale and 10% less firedamage taken
That's actually a lot better. I was about to propose 10% morale and 10% shock damage bonuses, but those are cool too.
Also it might be interesting to exchange 0.25 army traditions with 5% infantry combat ability. A tiny increment, but with this, cossacks and artillery yard we can achieve a really nice feeling of military perfection. Immensely satisfying, especially comapred with old russian ideas: they were great, but offended people.

As for Moscow ideas, last 3 of them are not that relevant cause usually you can form Russia right after grabbing adm tech 10.
 
Due to this, there was never any kind of revolt from outer sources, bar the occasional fake son and polish separatist.

What are you smoking, there were a shitton of Rebelions, Razin and Pugachov chief among them.

Also Russian army soundly defeated Frederick the not-so-Great and his famous goosesteppers, the so-called best army of Europe.

Also Moscow was burnt down by Grande Armée looters.

War exhaustion reduction sounds dandy, though.