Welcome to another Europa Universalis IV development diary. Everything is going fine with the development of Leviathan, as we are working on polishing content at the moment.

We have talked about some major improvements to playing tall in previous diaries, with possibilities of stacking manufactories and concentrating development. Today we will talk about something that synergies nicely with both these features.

Centralizing a State

The final new Playing-Tall option is the ability to Centralize a State. This action reduces the administrative cost of a state by as much as the value of 20 development points.

Centralizing States costs 100 Government Reform Progress points and takes five years to complete.

This interaction is available both through the state interface and through the macrobuilder.

Never Mothball
A small thing that might make the top 3 of some peoples requested lists, and may be completely ignored by others is a small toggle for individual forts to never mothball.

We are adding a small checkbox in the province interface that if enabled, that fort will never mothball when you mothball every fort in your country from the military screen. This is something you may want to use when you may want to save money on lots of forts, but never risk it with the important forts next to France.

Canal changes
With the new monument mechanics, we moved the old great projects system to be using the new monument code internally as well, which gives a few benefits, in that you can upgrade them as well. Each upgrade takes about 10 years further, and about 1000 gold each. We are also making the canals available from an earlier technology as well, from admin tech 26 to admin tech 22.

Previously the canals, besides opening the paths, gave a +20 trade power to the location, now instead they are giving these.

• Tier 0 +10 Trade Power to Location, and +1% Trade Power to the Controller.
• Tier 1 +20 Trade Power to Location, and +2% Trade Power to the Controller.
• Tier 2 +30 Trade Power to Location, and +3% Trade Power to the Controller.
• Tier 3 +50 Trade Power to Location, and +5% Trade Power to the Controller.

Next week we’ll be back and talk about colonial nations.

 

[reivaj89]

And in your opinion number of tags has nothing to do with number of troops and fleets?
Also, the most performance heavy aspect of the game is war, aka AI commanding troops. More tags=more wars, more armies, more navies, more naval calculations-invasions.
1 tag won't make a difference, 1 prov wont make a difference but overhauling the whole area makes a difference.
I'm not against new tags in Oceania, btw.

It does have an impact, yes, but a very small one. OPMs are only capable of supporting 1 stack each, whereas late game blobs (when the number of tags has reduced significantly compared to 1444) spam 1k reinforcement stacks during wars, thus considerably lowering performance. My point is that 1 tag with 200 provinces has a much bigger impact on performance than 50 tags with 1 or 2 provinces each.

Edit: typos.

 

[Sharples88]

Doesn’t all this point to it being time for EUV? That EUIV is essentially a completed game and it’s time to move on?

Yeah, it's definitely time to move on. Leviathan should be the last DLC as it directly affects the abilities of the developers to do much other than 'add this button' or 'add this QoL' here.

 

[sunnierlflyer743]

I won't say how bad or disappointing this is as many others already have already said plenty instead I will suggest ways the 'Playing Tall' features could be improved.

Most tall players never have an issue with Governing capacity so how about instead of 100 rp and five years for -20 Gov Cap, how about like others said -15% or 25% autonomy with a base minimum of 15% or 25%. Maybe give 10-15% dev cost modifier on top which effects all other modifier

E.g

You have base cost of 8 modifiers give you plus 120% another gives -20% total plus 100% so 16 dev cost. But then this new reduction gives -15% off that figure 15.2 dev cost.

Something else that could be done is tie this to crownland such as at 100% crownland ownership Centralise state cost 50 p instead of 100.


A possibility for centralise dev is have it similar to the colonial policies with:

Option 1, Dev to Capital State with 30% of dev lost
Option 2, Dev to all provinces of primary culture connected to capital with 20% of dev lost
Option 3, Dev to all provinces of Culture group and accepted culture with 10% of dev lost

If you used Option 2 or 3 on a primary culture it would just redistribute the dev among where it would go

I know these don't help tall gameplay but I struggle to find a way to does without having many unrealistic restriction that would make zero sense.


It's likely these would need to be relaxed relaxed for a A.I so for states they would have 0% minimum Autonomy.


A few other thing i'd like to see changed

Great powers can join any war if there are already 2 other GPs involved and if there is already three GPs AI great powers are very likely to join
Reduction in how often burgundy gets an heir, its ridiculous how little the inheritance actually happens
Sweden also never rebels without player intervention which is disappointing

I realise these many not be good maybe not even be possible but as a tall player these are some of the issues i've noticed with this game

 

[Pale Blue]

Doesn’t all this point to it being time for EUV? That EUIV is essentially a completed game and it’s time to move on?

Because it is not completed. I don’t need or want new mechanics in a dlc or in the game, but reworked old ones and added flavour. Merchant republics for example seem to be universally hated and are often requested to get changed. Africa, America and the Middle East need flavour and missions.
Most of this would be content design and not gameplay. The coders therefore could indeed start working on eu5, because there is less to work on in eu4.

 

[IndigoRage]

When I inevitably buy this on release I hope the developers realise it's because I want wonders, south-east Asia and permanent mothball forts (which shouldn't be paid content but hey, you need Art Of War for a little plus icon to recruit units to an existing army) and not for this completely vacuous, flaccid attempt at pretending to appeal to tall players

Will inevitably buy on release like a little paypig, but it's entirely because of SEA and North America content and less for the mechanics. (though some of the diplo ones are neat I guess).

 

[IndigoRage]

Because it is not completed. I don’t need or want new mechanics in a dlc or in the game, but reworked old ones and added flavour. Merchant republics for example seem to be universally hated and are often requested to get changed. Africa, America and the Middle East need flavour and missions.
Most of this would be content design and not gameplay. The coders therefore could indeed start working on eu5, because there is less to work on in eu4.

Right. I just want broken and iffy systems fixed and ignored regions like South America and Africa (and actually the Baltics at this point oddly enough) to get another pass over before they move to the next title.

 

[valentin4]

The problem is that there is so many underlying mechanics in eu4 that any new systems that we add, adds enormously to complexity for performance, AI and new users. A button is easier to handle for all those things.

Ideally I'd want to rip out lots of systems in EU4, and rework them, but with how things are, its not really feasible, not for the scope of this game.

It's a bit weird because you are basically admitting that those features are useless and don't result from any consistent design philosophy whatsoever and are just bulled points to sell the DLC. I would hope that after the Imperator 1.0 fiasco more value should be given to player feedback. The last EU4 updates should focus on limited changes and tweaks that are community driven, not trying to assemble this kind of Potemkine Village DLC

 

[brifbates]

Never mothball button is something I'll use a lot, the rest of the stuff for this update is meh so far.

 

[PedroLuiz]

Question.
Wouldn't it make more sense to reduce Development Cost of that state if that's a playing tall feature, by lets say 15-20% ?
Because right now it's a late game going wide feature.

20000 development Amsterdam when?

 

[Grace04]

Emperor DLC was a great last hurrah for EU4. I'm afriad this DLC will just be one of the last wheezes.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Tall play doesn't need more buttons to press every x number of years. It needs more engaging content during peace time and more ways to interact with your nation's internal politics.

 

[TolHydra]

Lol, I'd love to join the bandwagon to bash how useful of a feature that is, but this is a game where you keep clicking on things with abstract points to ”play tall” so I suppose these new additions are thematic even.

We have played Victoria 2, CK2/3, Stellaris and the new Imperator update guys, come on, this is nowhere near good enough.

 

[Swirly Mango]

It is nice to hear about 2nd and 3rd points of this dev diary. About 1st one isn´t 100 too much when boosting GC cost like 25 (and then a bit more) for the same benefit? (Or am I missing some other benefits)

Potentially you can have a 6 province state with 40 dev each (e.g. Wallachia or Pest) In this case... wait if it only reduces the cost by a flat 20 dev then why wouldn't I just click expand government button in reform screen?

 

[PedroLuiz]

Yes, Colonists have another purpose, which is great, but the rest don't.

As long as there are neighbours around Diplomats always have a use, so they are not a problem.

Merchants are wildly variable, since the need for them depends on your geographical layout and their availability is the most variable of all emissaries.

Missionaries on the other hand, these are the ones most frequently idle doing nothing. It would be really helpful if you could have them do something else other than converting, perhaps related to whatever religious mechanic you have? (Have them work, which would cost maintainance ofc, to gain more church power/fervor/papal influence etc...)

Weirdly this game has plenty of mentions of making a Papal Emissary but you cant actually make one

 

[DominusNovus]

The problem is that there is so many underlying mechanics in eu4 that any new systems that we add, adds enormously to complexity for performance, AI and new users. A button is easier to handle for all those things.

Ideally I'd want to rip out lots of systems in EU4, and rework them, but with how things are, its not really feasible, not for the scope of this game.

Sounds like it is time to wrap up the game and move on to EU5 Vicky3

 

[Mr. Particularist]

For all of you guys working on the new DLC and free patch that goes with it, consider this last DLC of yours:

- Curia controller: Papal States - Harsh Stance
- Me (Milan): Papal ally - Harsh Stance
- Cardinal balance at the time: 7 harsh - 3 conciliatory

The Pope:

Also, the Pope:

"You're telling me I need to read the bull's content before I stamp it? In LATIN? Nice try, nerd"

 

[grommile]

It needs more engaging content during peace time and more ways to interact with your nation's internal politics.

Given the general nature of EU4's gameplay,
internal politics is a thing large countries should have more of than small countries.

After all a country with 200 provinces, 20 disparate cultures, and five religions has far more scope for internal politics than one with 10 provinces, two closely linked cultures, and one or two religions.

 

[Entrone]

Actually I can probably see this. Egypt is currently or recently upgraded the Suez canal in real life haha. You know, they added another lane, made it wider, added more infrastructure, that sort of thing.

Yea but still it just took like 150 years from the creation to do this.

I said the same thing when they first released government reforms - speaking to the choir.

As for canals, they get improvements as often as the Taj Mahal does haha. For both, never and all the time (depending on what you see them as). Just pretend it’s as simple as adding a toll booth or something. Doesn’t really matter, this one is clearly a gameified abstraction to a fantasy construction anyway. If you’re going to go down the historicity route, then canals shouldn’t exist anyway.

As for the monuments that's true, I found it already very strange that they might be not just upgraded (how do you upgrade the stonehedge?) but can get stolen (imagine the French packing the Stonehedge for transport). So far this seems to be the main feature of the upcoming patch, which is pretty disillusioning. It could be a nice little addition, but it's turning into a monster by overemphasizing it (like with the canals) for the sake of "added new content". I really don't wanna be a naysayer, but these are clearly not the changes the community wants to see.

This Centralize State action still sounds lackluster for me. Takes 5 years and eats up leftover reform progress, to save a few gold/month in late game when you mostly have more than enough anyways.
It could be connected to the Estates and crownlands, which even after one more rework are quite a passive part of the game.
It could be connected to spare merchants/diplomats/colonists or even advisors, which see little use in some cases towards late game.
It could be connected to State Edicts, which are often quite expensive to use.
There are quite a few possibilities, but the current mechanism looks really dull.

 

[Twoflower]

Right. I just want broken and iffy systems fixed and ignored regions like South America and Africa (and actually the Baltics at this point oddly enough) to get another pass over before they move to the next title.

Quite true. I would personally love to see some more content packs (I would have paid just for the new content announced for SE Asia, Oceania and North America; some more content for pre-Columbian South and Central America and for Africa would be very nice, and among the Tier 1 countries from the October 3rd 2012 dev diary for the base game - the countries that are supposed to be most flavourful, content-heavy and important for the game - Sweden of all countries stands out as the one that has never been the focus of a DLC or flavour pack).
They could release those flavour packs along with free patches that include a few QoL improvements (like the never mothball thing announced today) and, a bit more importantly, bugfixes, fundamental improvements to the AI and (provided those don't break the AI again!) a rebalance of the economy that makes it less easy to swim in money after a certain point.
EU4 is already a very good game, and Paradox would do its legacy a lot more favours if they refrain from adding pointless buttons to sell DLCs or other bloat and just fix the things that are right now wrong/not ideal with the game and flesh out the few areas of the map that are still comparatively weak in content for a well-polished final version. CK2 is quite a good model to emulate in that respect.

 

[Skyfus]

Aren't they adding some option to massively boost your state by making it use a lot more government capacity? This change should neatly play into that mechanic.

So they're basically offering you a treat but only if they kick you in the shins, and then following up by selling shin-bruise cream