“This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror”

Welcome to the 7th development diary for Europa Universalis IV,
where we talk about the dominant power by the end of the Europa Universalis time frame, the country formerly known as England.
England can be considered both as one of the easier nations to play, but also one of the more challenging nations. That´s a paradox, you say?
Well, it all depends on what you wish to accomplish and what kind of empire you want to create

The unique possibilities of England
What truly makes England unique to play is that the country has natural borders protecting it and that you can strengthen those borders dramatically with rather cheap investments. You can decide to let England get involved in the continent, from a safe position, or choose to isolate England and go overseas. The country also sits on a bloody nice position to control the trade from the Baltic and from North America. So the options are huge for you to take England in plenty of directions when creating your empire.

England’s Dynamic Historical Events
England is has one of the richest and best known histories. That may sound lovely for you guys, but it also means that we have had to work hard when it comes to decisions about historical events to include in Europa Universalis IV. The important countries in EU4 have a lot of events going on, so some of those major historical events have been turned into the starting points of large event chains that we call Dynamic Historical Events.

War of the Roses is an excellent example of Dynamic Historical Events. If England in the 15th century has a ruler without an heir, that means that there is a likelihood of a large event chain beginning. The player has to select who to back for the throne, York or Lancaster. This decision will throw the country into turmoil with various parts declaring for either the red or white rose, and you have to make sure to eliminate the very strong, rather resilient pretenders. What makes this interesting is that this event chain is not an event series that is guaranteed to come every time you play as England. It only occurs if all the necessary underlying factors are fulfilled. When it happens, you won't have planned for it to arrive on schedule, like many people did when they played Europa Universalis II, the last game in the series with a serious focus on historical events. We hope that this variation will gives you rather unique experiences when you play major powers.

The English Civil War will be another major event series that might encounter when you play as England, but we will not spoil it for you here yet.
England also has many smaller DHE, like The War of Captain Jenkin's Ear: if they are rivals with Spain, after 1700, then you can get a casus belli on Spain. Or an event like The Muscovy Trade Company, where if you discover the sea route to Archangelsk, and its owned by the Muscovites, then there is a likelihood of this historical event happening.

England’s Missions & Decisions
We have kept the historical missions that existed in Europa Universalis III and we are expanding them for Europa Universalis IV, so you'll still see missions to conquer Scotland and colonize North America. When it comes to decisions, England still manually have to rely on the Wooden Wall, and make Calais into a Staple Port.

England’s National Ideas
The traditions that England starts with is a small boost in naval morale and a 5% boost to their trading efficiency.
The trading efficiency boost is due to the fact that the economy of England to fund their participation in the Hundred Years War was their taxation of the very profitable wool trade.

The 7 National Ideas for England are:

2. Royal Navy : 25% higher naval force limit, and +10% more combat power for big ships.
3. Eltham Ordinance : +15% higher tax.
4. Secretaries of State : +1 diplomat
5. Navigation Acts : +10% trade income, and +10% more combat power for light ships.
6. Bill of Rights : -1 revolt risk.
7. Reform of Commission Buying : +10% discipline
8. Sick and Hurt Board : -50% Naval Attrition.

Reward: English Ambition
When England has gotten all seven of their National Ideas, they get the bonus of 'English Ambitions' which gives them a +100% on their embargo efficiency.

Here's a screenshot where I've cheated to show a little bit of the idea progress..



Welcome back next week, where we'll talk in detail about the enhancements we've done to the religious aspect of the game!

 

[StephenT]

This is blatantly untrue. At the very most you could argue that they were advanced in comparison to other Atlantic powers, but even then I would contest that claim. Saying they were ahead at all compared to states like Aragon or Venice though is pure ignorance.

I would be shocked - shocked - if Venice didn't also have a powerful Naval national idea or two. Aragon too,in all likelihood.

Anyway, English naval superiority - as opposed to dominance,which is a different matter - certainly dates from at least the 16th century. They pioneered the use of seaborne artillery, the use of special mountings for naval cannons, the practice of reloading during a battle (Spanish tactics were to fire once, then grapple and board), and in the early 17th century they invented the line of battle tactic. That's a lot of innovations even before their period of 'dominance'.

 

[Chamboozer]

Sorry, I guess I should have clarified. He said "the english navy was a long way ahead of every other european power in the early 1500s and even before in medievil times". England was by no means a long way ahead of every other european power in the early 1500s or before (nor were they ahead in general). Their rise came about from their innovation in cannon manufacture and tactics, as you said, but that was all in the second half of the 16th Century.

 

[MercutioUK]

First of all, let me just say that this is my favourite DD so far! Love the fact that you are pursuing a middle way between historical events and the sandbox game. I'm particularly looking forward to go back to the Hundred Years War leading armies with the Black Prince!

Regarding the whole Royal Navy shenanigans, Johan mentioned that he used cheat codes to show the ideas... the birth of a national Royal Navy (obviously not the same structure and organization from colonial years) began during the Tudor era.

Read the previous DD about national ideas, he said that each national idea is awarded for free after buying three ideas from the same group. So basically, you need to get 3 from the idea group to get the Royal Navy idea. You will probably get it in the early/mid 16th century.

The traditions that England starts with is a small boost in naval morale and a 5% boost to their trading efficiency.

So the bonuses you get at the start have no relation with English naval supremacy during that period. Although it makes me question if you would receive the Royal Navy by simply getting 3 ideas from any group (say land military for example, to fight in the HYW) or you need to get 3 ideas from the Naval group to get the RN National Idea.

 

[Chamboozer]

Splitting up the ideas evenly across the timeline gives you one idea every 50 years. Of course it could be anything, but it seems like a reasonable guess that we'll get our first NI between 1470 and 1500.

Another way of doing it: EUIII gave us 12 National Ideas, we got our first one around 10-15 years into the game. With half as many this time around, we can expect our first around 20-30 years in.

 

[unmerged(63836)]

Probably a silly question, but... let's say I'm a "creative" player and don't want to develop the navy, instead trying to wage land wars all over continental Europe. With the nation-specific national ideas, does it mean I'd be forced to go the navy route or is there another way?

Nothing prevents you from going land focused, with token focus on navy/trade/colonisation. You would be at disadvantage however, since you'll not benefit from significant bonuses that game gives you, while say France would get bonuses to the land army on which you want to ahistorically focus. Also, if you play ahistorically you will miss tons of content in form of DHEs, that will not fire.

In other words - you have freedom of action, but any other route than historical would not be optimal. You are supposed to play the game historically.

I agree, but it seems it'll all be not just moddable, but modded into really cool concepts.

If whole set of NIs and/or Traditions could be switched in game via event/decision, then maybe they could be converted into some generic sets of ideas. For example - naval focused, army focused, trade focued, etc. That way they can be distributed historically among all TAGs before the game start, not giving any clear advantage to any of them (England and Denmark would get same 'naval' NIs, Genoa and Venice same set of 'trade' NIs, etc.). They could be then changed completely during game, to allow some flexibility and alternate history paths (for example England would switch from 'naval' set, to 'land' set after conquest of France in 1550).

 

[Red_warning]

Johan,

As far as ships, are galleys and light (say frigates in the late game) separate categories?

Any chance that galleys will now be useable only in the Mediterranean, Black Sea and Baltic so that they remain dominant there (for reasons of cost and numerousness) into the late mid-game while ocean-going squadrons dominate everywhere else?

How big are ocean-going squadrons getting right now?

AFAIK while galleys were common in the Baltic sea they were hardly dominant and were used more as a poor man's warship. They would usually be totally annihilated by ships of the line.

 

[DominusNovus]

Magna Carta is quite a bit earlier though, this NI probably refers to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689.

Well, given that its midway through the chain, I'll agree that its probably supposed to represent that Bill of Rights. However, in EU3, I'm pretty sure that Bill of Rights was one of the first NIs that AI was scripted to take (which always screwed up the game, since it gave them virtually a free CB on everyone, but thats another story), indicating that it was representing the Magna Carta.

That still leaves the problem with other nations not being able to institute Bills of Rights, even though, within the scope of the game, you could say that at least three other nations had some sort of BoR (Poland, America, and France).

 

[Chamboozer]

Most Baltic 'warships' before ~1560 were just converted merchant vessels. That was what the Hanseatic League relied on with some success. But in the late 16th Century Sweden was the first to make use of large, short-range 'true' warships in that region. That's what gave them their power, though their ships could not have operated very far away from their home ports.

 

[Nassau]

I wonder how much change you will be able to put in as player. Is it hardcoded for Eastern European nations to have less freedom for it citizens and have a powerfull aristocracy? Or can you make Poland or Prussia into the most liberal place on earth?

 

[unmerged(70013)]

Currently in internal balancing we have the problem of Burgundy dominating Europe due to the Antwerp trade node

Also, there are trade links from north sea, from germany, from france, and from iberia.

Maybe I should wait for your Trade Dev Diary, but are these trade routes and nodes going to be moddable?

Edit: Not that I don't want game balancing. I just want to be able to move these routes around.

 

[Red_warning]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada

read this your plain wrong the english navy was a long way ahead of every other european power in the early 1500s and even before in medievil times

the spanish had strong naval allies too

in the first hundred war with france they completly decimated the french fleet in 1213 and 1217

and then again in 1340 against the french an genoese

they then sunk castilles fleet in 1350

then defeated the french yet again at sea in 1416

this was all before 1500 they were by far the dominat sea power from around the 1200s onwards

the naval reforms started in 1485 they should get these descions early and they should be able to field a larger navy and more advanced navy then the next 3 largest powers combined

Hrm, medieval times you say. Where was the English fleet during the Viking and Norman invasions?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Hrm, medieval times you say. Where was the English fleet during the Viking and Norman invasions?

He said English -- clearly the Anglo-Saxons weren't a great seafaring people. He also said from the 1200s onward.

 

[WeissRaben]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada

Yes, the "5 ships lost or captured" by the English against the 51 sunk by a storm give me a good enough picture of the situation.

 

[Red_warning]

He said English -- clearly the Anglo-Saxons weren't a great seafaring people. He also said from the 1200s onward.

He said that they became dominant in 1200 but also that they were ahead (the rest of Europe?) in medieval times. That's 1000 years of history.

 

[Maria Theresa]

Looks great! Can't wait for the game and England is surely going to be one of the first nations to play for me.

On a separate note, i don't understand why are people complaining about the tiny bonuses to the English navy... I for one wouldn't want to play a game where all nations have the same things, that would ruin all the fun.
If you want to play sandbox, go outside and play in a damn sandbox! :angry:

 

[1alexey]

I must admit the more I see about the national ideas, the more I dislike the concept of "idea groups". It seems to take out the ability to customize your nation. If I'm England, I have to have a Bill of Rights? What if I want to be an absolute monarch who offers his people no guarantees or rights?

You end up with your head separated.
:laugh:

go outside and play in a damn sandbox! :angry:

you are hardcoded by the DNA, no sandbox in real world.

 

[Chamboozer]

Looks great! Can't wait for the game and England is surely going to be one of the first nations to play for me.

On a separate note, i don't understand why are people complaining about the tiny bonuses to the English navy... I for one wouldn't want to play a game where all nations have the same things, that would ruin all the fun.
If you want to play sandbox, go outside and play in a damn sandbox! :angry:

It's not about every country being the same, but about every country having proper opportunities for success. If England and France both max out their country's naval national idea groups, France still can't defeat England simply because England is England and France is France. I don't know what the 10% big ship 'combat power' actually does, but if it's anything like discipline in EUIII then 10% is a tremendous buff that can render a country completely unbeatable with everything else even. I don't see anything wrong with buffing England's navy a slight bit for history's own sake, but not by 10%, and not in the 15th Century.

Rather, English and French (and every country's) naval strength should be based on a greater variety of variables. A simulation of the relative skill of the seamen from each country, perhaps, based on how extensively the country is engaged in overseas trade, warfare, or exploration. That way not every country has the same things, but those things that are different are prone to change over time instead of being static and unchangeable throughout the game. It's just silly that a France that devotes itself entirely to its navy should be stuck at a lower maximum threshold than an England that does the same thing, geographical and territorial differences nonwithstanding.

I mean, do you think that Louis XIV, when considering his strategy for dealing with his country's overseas future, would have thought, "Oh, I might as well forget about trying to defeat England's navy, no matter how good mine is, it can never be as good as theirs. England is just simply better in those matters."?

 

[Sardoniscorn]

Agreed, it is very "un-Paradoxian" to have these Ideas "locked in".

Yes, there should be logical paths of development for different countries. Yes, it should be rational for a player playing England to pursue naval techs and maybe giving them particular special names when playing England would add that "flavor" that those without imaginations are raging for.

Please, please, let it be up to the player. Let it be possible to make mistakes and pursue ill advised mal-development and radical strategies. It is not about determinism, it's about dynamism.

Seriously, having your hand held like this does remind me of Civ or Total War something: "England: Maritime/Innovative, +10% Ship Combat, Special unit: Britannia Flamethrower Barque".

If this is the future, I feel sad.

 

[Dafool]

It's not about every country being the same, but about every country having proper opportunities for success. If England and France both max out their country's naval national idea groups, France still can't defeat England simply because England is England and France is France. I don't know what the 10% big ship 'combat power' actually does, but if it's anything like discipline in EUIII then 10% is a tremendous buff that can render a country completely unbeatable with everything else even. I don't see anything wrong with buffing England's navy a slight bit for history's own sake, but not by 10%, and not in the 15th Century.

Rather, English and French (and every country's) naval strength should be based on a greater variety of variables. A simulation of the relative skill of the seamen from each country, perhaps, based on how extensively the country is engaged in overseas trade, warfare, or exploration. That way not every country has the same things, but those things that are different are prone to change over time instead of being static and unchangeable throughout the game. It's just silly that a France that devotes itself entirely to its navy should be stuck at a lower maximum threshold than an England that does the same thing, geographical and territorial differences nonwithstanding.

I mean, do you think that Louis XIV, when considering his strategy for dealing with his country's overseas future, would have thought, "Oh, I might as well forget about trying to defeat England's navy, no matter how good mine is, it can never be as good as theirs. England is just simply better in those matters."?

I can see your point here, but it sounds like your trying to frame this in worst case scenario that is never actually going to play out. Will England or GB have more potential than France when it comes to their navy? Yes. Should we expect England or GB to always meet 100% of their potential? Never. If France dedicates itself to a naval focus, then more than likely it will be able to overcome the bonuses England receives. It should also be remembered that France isn't "worse off" than England. Instead her bonuses lie elsewhere.

 

[Chamboozer]

It should also be remembered that France isn't "worse off" than England. Instead her bonuses lie elsewhere.

That just means we have the same problem in reverse, in which England cannot defeat the French on land because the threshold of their capabilities are lower. And I also have multiplayer in mind. A person playing as England doesn't need to fear French naval power, because the French player knows that no matter what he does he can never be better than England's navy. Thus instead of getting an exciting competition in which both sides attempt to maximize their navy's potential, we get a stalemate in which both players know that they cannot challenge each other outside of their respective spheres.

There is one other thing to consider. How many variables actually go into determining a navy's strength? Off the top of my head I can think of naval tradition (admirals), technology, idea groups, national ideas, and smaller minor decisions/events. Assuming 90% of naval ideas are in the 'naval' category of idea groups, and assuming even technology, the only thing that makes an naval idea group using English and French navy different from each other are national ideas, naval tradition, and minor decisions. It's not very hard to maximize the benefits one gets from those things. So I can easily see countries reaching 100% of their potential naval strength often during the game.