Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 9th of August 2022

[Me_]

Miscellaneous​

Mercenary armies will now have descriptions so you can write the story behind some of the most legendary hired arms during the timeline of the game. This change aims at adding an increased sense of roleplay and help the player see the mercenary armies as a unique and alive part of the game, not just some faceless troops to be thrown into battle In this instance, the description is used to declare that the Swiss mercenaries will not cost any Army Professionalism:

View attachment 866757​

In the meantime, have you replaced the weird flag references for mercenary armies with references to missions/events that set these flags?

 

[Rebox-O-Lots]

When you are spying on somebody, and your diplomat gets caught, you incur a -20 relations modifier called 'Did covert actions', that improves by 5 each year and is capped at -100. If you have this idea, you'll no longer incur the relation penalty if your spies get caught.

I'm pretty sure the relationship penalty is actually higher. I think I've gotten around a -60 to -80 relations penalty getting caught by Scotland as England. However, reducing covert action relation impact by -100% seems silly. At what point in history would a nation not care at all its being spied on by another nation?

Espionage:

• ‘State Propaganda’ now also reduces Covert Action Relation Impact by -100%.
• 'Agent Training' now gives -15% Advisor Cost.
• ‘Vetting’ now also grants -0.2 Yearly Corruption.
• 'Privateers' now give +25% Chance to Capture Enemy Ships instead of +25% Embargo Efficiency.
• ‘Audit Checks’ replaced by ‘Blackmailing’, now granting:
  • Reasons to Accept Vassalization +15.
  • Monthly Favors Modifier +33%.
• Bonus now gives Rebel Support Efficiency of 100% instead of 50%.

This is how I would make Espionage Ideas more valuable. If these changes were implemented I would consider taking them as an idea group, currently, I still can't think of a scenario where I would actually want to take them.

Current Espionage Ideas (1.33.3)	Patch 1.34	Suggested Ideas
Claim Fabrication May fabricate claims for subjects −25% Cost to fabricate claims	None	−25% Cost to fabricate claims. (same)
State Propaganda −20% Aggressive expansion impact	‘State Propaganda’ now also reduces Covert Action Relation Impact by -100%.	-50% Reduces all relations penalty, (reduction to 50%) −25% Aggressive expansion impact (-5% more)
Efficient Spies +50% Spy network construction +10% Siege ability	None	+20%Blockade Efficiency +50% Spy network construction +10% Siege ability
Agent Training +1 Diplomat −10% Advisor cost	Agent Training now gives -15% Advisor Cost.	Rename 'Agent Training' to 'Intelligence Ministry' +1 Diplomat -15% Advisor Cost. (same)
Vetting +33% Foreign spy detection	‘Vetting’ now also grants -0.2 Yearly Corruption.	-0.2 Yearly Corruption. +33% Foreign spy detection (same)
Privateers +25% Embargo efficiency +33% Privateer efficiency	'Privateers' now give a +25% Chance to Capture Enemy Ships instead of +25% Embargo Efficiency.	+25% Chance of Capture Enemy Ships +33% Privateer efficiency -25% Foreign blockade efficiency
Audit Checks −0.10 Yearly corruption	‘Audit Checks’ replaced by ‘Blackmailing’, now granting: Reasons to Accept Vassalization +15. Monthly Favors Modifier +33%.	'Blackmailing' to be renamed to 'Coercion' (blackmailing is just a general spy strategy such as decoys, reverse psychology, etc...) (same)
Bonus: +50% Rebel support efficiency	Bonus now gives Rebel Support Efficiency of 100% instead of 50%.	+100% Rebel Support Efficiency +50% Rebel Support Size +100% Espionage Action Duration (5-year duration to 10-year duration (i.e. slander merchants, sabotage Recruitment for 10 years instead), etc...

My thoughts:

• 'Blockade efficiency' and negative 'foreign blockade efficiency' synergize excellently with Espionage ideas. It helps transition the game towards navies becoming more relevant in the game.
• Another idea to add is letting high maneuver generals cross-straits so that you need to maintain a blockade above a certain level to keep a general from crossing (i.e. 6 manuever ≤ 80% blockade, 5 maneuver ≤ 60% blockade, etc...)
• The -20% Aggressive Expansion is the main focus of the set so I would strengthen that ever so slightly more (-5%) while reducing the penalty of being detected by 50%. No country in the history of the world would be fine with being spied on constantly.
• 'Rebel Support Efficiency' is average, but it still doesn't help if the rebel size in the nation is too small, +100% could be too big, however, so +50% size to rebels seems like the perfect in-between.
• While 'Slandering Merchants', 'Sowing Discontent', etc... are all useful, their durations are too short for how much they cost, but making them +100% 'more efficient would be OP. Therefore, +100% Espionage Action Duration seems like a good in-between.
• My final issue is just the naming convention of the ideas not being broader.

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Edit:

On the subject of diplomacy, nations with parliaments/republics (parliaments) should receive +1 diplomatic relations this is because Parliaments DON'T have access to the 'nobility estate' granting "Strong Duchies". This is a big weakness so +1 diplomatic relations would help alleviate it, especially since we're going to have more estate privileges, further exacerbating this imbalance.

I will concede that the parliament bonuses do tend to be much better than the estate agendas, however, the fact that someone can enable "Primacy of the Nobility" from day one granting +1 monthly military power and leaving it for 376 years + 2 months = 4,514 military power becomes a bit unbalanced.

Even if it's arguable that debates make up for 50% of the 3386 military power, and the minor seat bonuses make up another 25% (usually 13-14 seats with all of the Isles)

This still doesn't account for the bonuses you can get for manpower recovery/ reduced cost or the privileges that can be granted such as +2 diplomatic relations, or +33% increased levies for -10% tax for every province, military advisor cost reduction, etc...

I know then the counterarguments will include, "then don't play as the US or England which has no nobility, you have the best trade node", except how am I not more OP if I start as Scotland and form Great Britain while still having the nobility estate? Or simply play as the French or Dutch and monopolize the trade? Not to mention the fact that England not having nobility in-game isn't (exactly) historically accurate.


What would be the best solution is if the "English Monarchy" could enable the nobility while granting harsher penalties to its base government reform. Furthermore, if you had to assign a lot more seats per development than currently, and all of the isles took around 20 seats then this would nerf debates significantly as well as hurt absolutism more. Honestly, an autonomy floor of -10% in parliament seats would be an interesting idea if it made up for the greater estate bonuses coming out with this update. Overall it would make England less rich, but they already suffer the most from constant manpower shortages without taking quantity ideas.

All of this would attempt to make the government reform of Parliament more attractive, if the nobility still isn't added then some small bonus should be thrown to parliaments just to keep them a bit more relevant going forward.

Perhaps overall parliaments are fine, but I'm just concerned about balancing in nations without specific estates, or how estates getting stronger affect certain nations.

As a counterbalance, their Burgher's influence could be reduced, got that backward my apologies, maybe Theocracies, Tribes, and Monarchies could have base values altered that set them apart more, for instance: stability cost, church power/influence, diplomats, vassals mechanic, etc...

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Edit: All in all, I'm not going to claim any solutions with diplomat/ diplomatic relations without stirring controversy. I don't know how it should be reworked. If a modifier was added to give no diplomatic relation malus for vassals/ personal unions then that may be one way to do it. Empires could give an extra diplomat to put less focus on diplomatic or influence ideas, but that comes at the steep cost of making those ideas weaker without strengthening them. I would love to see some kind of diplomacy rework that doesn't hurt a nation or idea groups, but that is also balanced so you can't just use more relations to ally the biggest nations to prevent coalitions.

 

[Rullino]

Hello Paradox, I like the new improvements to mercenaries by removing the professionalism loss to some of them and adding descriptions, but can you optimizer their composition according to the combat width?

Since most of them aren't as organised as the player's army it makes them useless, and since some mercenary companies have 60 infantry regiments while the combat width is lower than their composition and the also lack of cannons when they become important, this would make mercenary bonuses worth it and I like to use them in my wars whenever I'm low on manpower, I hope this change will arrive at 1.34 or at least in 1.35, i hope we'll get the Landsknecht mercenary company because they were very famous around the 1500s that even the Holy Roman emperor hired them.

 

[currylambchop]

I'm pretty sure the relationship penalty is actually higher. I think I've gotten around a -60 to -80 relations penalty getting caught by Scotland as England. However, reducing covert action relation impact by -100% seems silly. At what point in history would a nation not care at all its being spied on by another nation?




This is how I would make Espionage Ideas more valuable. If these changes were implemented I would consider taking them as an idea group, currently, I still can't think of a scenario where I would actually want to take them.

Current Espionage Ideas (1.33.3)	Patch 1.34	Suggested Ideas
Claim Fabrication May fabricate claims for subjects −25% Cost to fabricate claims	None	−25% Cost to fabricate claims. (same)
State Propaganda −20% Aggressive expansion impact	‘State Propaganda’ now also reduces Covert Action Relation Impact by -100%.	-50% Reduces all relations penalty, (reduction to 50%) −25% Aggressive expansion impact (-5% more)
Efficient Spies +50% Spy network construction +10% Siege ability	None	+20%Blockade Efficiency +50% Spy network construction +10% Siege ability
Agent Training +1 Diplomat −10% Advisor cost	Agent Training now gives -15% Advisor Cost.	Rename 'Agent Training' to 'Intelligence Ministry' +1 Diplomat -15% Advisor Cost. (same)
Vetting +33% Foreign spy detection	‘Vetting’ now also grants -0.2 Yearly Corruption.	-0.2 Yearly Corruption. +33% Foreign spy detection (same)
Privateers +25% Embargo efficiency +33% Privateer efficiency	'Privateers' now give a +25% Chance to Capture Enemy Ships instead of +25% Embargo Efficiency.	+25% Chance of Capture Enemy Ships +33% Privateer efficiency -25% Foreign blockade efficiency
Audit Checks −0.10 Yearly corruption	‘Audit Checks’ replaced by ‘Blackmailing’, now granting: Reasons to Accept Vassalization +15. Monthly Favors Modifier +33%.	'Blackmailing' to be renamed to 'Coercion' (blackmailing is just a general spy strategy such as decoys, reverse psychology, etc...) (same)
Bonus: +50% Rebel support efficiency	Bonus now gives Rebel Support Efficiency of 100% instead of 50%.	+100% Rebel Support Efficiency +50% Rebel Support Size +100% Espionage Action Duration (5-year duration to 10-year duration (i.e. slander merchants, sabotage Recruitment for 10 years instead), etc...

My thoughts:

• 'Blockade efficiency' and negative 'foreign blockade efficiency' synergize excellently with Espionage ideas. It helps transition the game towards navies becoming more relavant in the game.
• Another idea to add is letting high maneuver generals cross straits so that you need to maintain a blockade above a certain level to keep a general from crossing (i.e. 6 manuever ≤ 80% blockade, 5 maneuver ≤ 60% blockade, etc...)
• The -20% Aggressive Expansion is the main focus of the set so I would strengthen that ever so slightly more (-5%) while reducing the penalty of being detected by 50%. No country in the history of the world would be fine with being spied on constantly.
• 'Rebel Support Efficiency' is average, but it still doesn't help if the rebel size in the nation is too small, +100% could be too big, however, so +50% size to rebels seems like the perfect in-between.
• While 'Slandering Merchants', 'Sowing Discontent', etc... are all useful, their durations are too short for how much they cost, but making them +100% 'more efficient' would be OP. Therefore, +100% Espionage Action Duration seems like a good in-between.
• My final issue is just the naming convention of the ideas not being broader.

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On the subject of diplomacy, nations with parliaments/republics should receive +1 diplomatic relations this is because they DON'T have access to the 'nobility estate' granting "Strong Duchies". this is a big weakness so +1 diplomatic relations would help alleviate it, especially since we're going to have more estate privileges, further exacerbating this imbalance.

As a counterbalance, their Burgher's influence could be reduced, or maybe Theocracies, Tribes, and Monarchies could have base values altered that set them apart more, for instance: stability cost, church power/influence, diplomats, vassals mechanic, etc...

1. Blackmailing means that you are threatening someone with releasing compromising info on them, so I think it fits.
2. Most republics have access to nobility estate.
3. Reduced burgher influence is a buff, not a nerf.
4. -25% AE is a bit much given that no nation has that much AE reduction except Ryukyu (which is just a in-joke based on the three mountains achievement)

 

[Rullino]

1. Blackmailing means that you are threatening someone with releasing compromising info on them, so I think it fits.
2. Most republics have access to nobility estate.
3. Reduced burgher influence is a buff, not a nerf.
4. -25% AE is a bit much given that no nation has that much AE reduction except Ryukyu (which is just a in-joke based on the three mountains achievement)

True, only the peasant Republic has no nobles and the AE impact on that Ryukyu has makes it OP and the idea mentioning the Three Mountains and the dream of the Ryukian King is in the free leader slot, their ideas are great, and the possibility to become Shogun with some careful leadership and enforing peace by improving relations with the weakest Daimyo helped me in my attempt to become Shogun, as for the estate influence that's a buff because it's hard to complete missions needing my estates to have low influence and high loyalty, I nearly ended up into a Plutocratic coup as Florence.

 

[Lavilledieu]

At what point in history would a nation not care at all its being spied on by another nation?

Maybe you should see it differently: the relations impact of spying is actually making it more difficult to trace back spies to you. At 100%, they basically never know for who the spy worked for. So it's not something about caring less (that's silly in terms of immersion), but rather is increases the uncertainty the spy worked for you. No, the modifier should not be renamed to something else if my theory is correct, because "diplomatic relations impact" conveys the message of what it does much better than something like "Spy nationality uncertainty".


One of the big problems I have with the espionage ideas, is that the policies are generally meh or even bad, and none are vassal-related while the espionage has some vassalization-related stuff. Meanwhile, for some weird reason, the strongest vassal policy is with fricking naval ideas, namely naval-expansion: -20% liberty desire from subject development and -20% state maintenance.

 

[Syn Ukraїny]

Please, make quality ideas giving: +33% of manpower and +33% of force limit. +25% and +25% it's to small bonus to make picking of this ideas reasonable.

 

[Lavilledieu]

About the questions regarding the Modding stuff, @PDX Big Boss will cover them, as he's quite experienced on that topic.

Any idea if PDX Big Boss is still able to cover these? Or will they get covered in a next diary?

 

[Vapiritapiri]

Have you considered simplifying the mercenary system by making all companies professionalism free and rebalancing accordingly? If you did, what are the reasons against that?

The trade off is generally not worth it and by introducing exceptions the game just gets more complicated/less emergent.

Yup. It's hard to do an army with both.

 

[Rebox-O-Lots]

1. Blackmailing means that you are threatening someone with releasing compromising info on them, so I think it fits.
2. Most republics have access to nobility estate.
3. Reduced burgher influence is a buff, not a nerf.
4. -25% AE is a bit much given that no nation has that much AE reduction except Ryukyu (which is just a in-joke based on the three mountains achievement)

1. That one is just a naming convention so I can agree with that, I just prefer broader/specific terms like "intelligence" or "informants". Spies and spying are espionage but it seems cheesy. At least it's not called "spy ideas"

2. Your right my bad, not parliaments though, that's what I meant to refer to. England not having a nobility is pretty ridiculous since they should have access to one. The Parliament mechanics aren't enough to offset the disadvantage for nations without one. I mean you can always wait till the age of absolutism, but starting as Scotland and forming Great Britain is more valuable.

3. I got that backward my bad, something else would need to change for parliaments to be harder. Winning debates could be made harder by having to distribute more seats per development it's currently too low IMO.

4. It's just a 5% AE reduction, I wouldn't die on a hill for it, but I'm just trying to make the point I wouldn't take espionage ideas unironically. There's a reason why in many tiers lists espionage ideas fall behind diplomatic and influence ideas.

 

[adin85]

Problem with Espionage idea is that. There should be more spy missions. More spy missions. Espionage is more important.

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

I'm sad Lubeck didn't get an achievement.

Everything else is awesome though.

 

[Bardon29]

I recall seeing comment about someone asking to add Cavalry to Infantry ratio in ideas, and now I see it being added, it's very nice that community suggestions are taken into consideration, though I would reccomend to add Cavalry to Infantry ratio to quality ideas next to the Cavalry combat ability.

Also achievements suggestions - Former overlords:
Starting as Karabakh become an empire and have a subject in italy region and in persia region (or a subject with italian culture group and persian group as primary)

Context: Armenia once was between Roman Empire and Persian empires and they often found themselves during that period to be under influence under Rome or Persian nations, frequently changing sides.

Above zero:
Starting as a custom nation below zero points, become a great power.

 

[currylambchop]

Please, make quality ideas giving: +33% of manpower and +33% of force limit. +25% and +25% it's to small bonus to make picking of this ideas reasonable.

I think you mean quantity ideas. And no, 25% more force limit isn’t not worth it, y’all just way too used to obscenely inflated army sizes thanks to the old OP quantity ideas. Stuff like Russia in 1600s having more troops than Napoleon’s Grand Army is simply unrealistic and it is good that the amount of soldiers is being diaper down.

+25% force limit is already a good idea when it’s in a national idea set, it shouldn’t exceed that in quantity ideas. It would be like giving quality ideas +20% infantry and cavalry combat ability.

 

[noldorin]

The quantity idea changes have been very good. Think of an idea group in the game, when it is preferred at the beginning of the game, the game is completely dominated. It was absurd to do this by choosing just one idea. The 50% manpower and force limit slider were overkill. 25% is an ideal situation. Force limit and manpower modifiers are among the elements that should be restricted in terms of game fluency and sustainability. In the game, these limits of the countries whose national ideas are over 20% force limit should be shaved. Ottoman and Russian force limit changers should be removed altogether.

 

[currylambchop]

The quantity idea changes have been very good. Think of an idea group in the game, when it is preferred at the beginning of the game, the game is completely dominated. It was absurd to do this by choosing just one idea. The 50% manpower and force limit slider were overkill. 25% is an ideal situation. Force limit and manpower modifiers are among the elements that should be restricted in terms of game fluency and sustainability. In the game, these limits of the countries whose national ideas are over 20% force limit should be shaved. Ottoman and Russian force limit changers should be removed altogether.

Perhaps Russia and ottomans should have their force limit reduced rather than removed. To 25% and 20% respectively

 

[Rullino]

The quantity idea changes have been very good. Think of an idea group in the game, when it is preferred at the beginning of the game, the game is completely dominated. It was absurd to do this by choosing just one idea. The 50% manpower and force limit slider were overkill. 25% is an ideal situation. Force limit and manpower modifiers are among the elements that should be restricted in terms of game fluency and sustainability. In the game, these limits of the countries whose national ideas are over 20% force limit should be shaved. Ottoman and Russian force limit changers should be removed altogether.

Same for Patriarch Authority.

 

[themrspartan]

They all look good except the Finland one. Going through Russia, PLC, Ottomans, Mamluks and probably Spanish Africa just for one province...

 

[polaris8]

Love all the changes! They all seem reasonable and refreshes the stale meta. Hope you guys enjoy the well deserved break!

Any chance this (below link) can be looked at? Some mission awards, as well as estate agenda, do not work as intended because of this (add_nationalism working mostly with just a positive value but never with a negative value)

https://www.reddit.com/r/EU4mods/comments/hob4jm

 

[Lavilledieu]

Love all the changes! They all seem reasonable and refreshes the stale meta. Hope you guys enjoy the well deserved break!

Any chance this (below link) can be looked at? Some mission awards, as well as estate agenda, do not work as intended because of this (add_nationalism working mostly with just a positive value but never with a negative value)

https://www.reddit.com/r/EU4mods/comments/hob4jm

It doesn't do much because nationalism is capped, and that cap is very quickly reached. https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Rebellion#Separatism
It is needed to keep that cap unfortunately. Imagine the case where again and again, separatists siege a province (happens when the AI has a stack they can't deal with and just unsiege everything constantly). If you were to conquer that province, you would inherit the insane separatism the province has. A cap is needed. Perhaps the cap is a bit too low?