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Welcome to the third development diary for Europa Universalis 4: El Dorado. Today, we’ll be talking about America and Liberty… and no, it’s not about the USA. Specifically, we’ll be talking about the Mesoamerican and South American Inti and Maya religions added in the expansion, and the new Liberty Desire system included in the free patch.


Maya
The Maya were divided into a large number of city-states vying for supremacy. In the past, these states were united in a large confederation called the League of Mayapan until infighting shattered the league. In El Dorado, we’ve attempted to simulate this expansion and contraction through Religious Reforms similar to the ones available to the Nahuatl (for details, see El Dorado Dev Diary 1). For a Mayan nation to pass a reform, they will need to own at least 20 provinces, have positive stability, no revolts, and no overextension. This is a little daunting.

Upon passing a reform, a Maya state will lose about half its territory, shrinking to a size of 10 core provinces determined by culture, religion and distance to capital. Other provinces will break away, joining existing nations or forming new nations and requiring you to reconquer them again. For each reform you have passed, you will be able to keep hold of more territory, retaining an extra province in addition to the original 10. As with the Nahuatl, when the last reform is passed and you border a Western nation, you will be able to reform your religion, getting a tech boost and gaining the permanent benefit of the religious reforms.

The Maya religion starts with +1 Tolerance of the True Faith and +1 Possible Advisors and their reforms give -10% Land Maintenance, -2 Global Unrest, +10% Infantry Power, +1 Colonist and -20% Core-Creation cost.


Inti
Where the Maya and Nahuatl religions are about expansion and contraction, the Inti faith is about maintaining the authority of the Sapa Inca by having the people worship him as a God. Inti nations have an Authority value that goes up from owning vast stretches of territory, and goes down when the ruler grants autonomy to a province (either from granting autonomy via by the grant autonomy action, being forced to by rebels, or choosing to do so in an event). Authority is also affected by a number of unique events added for the Inti religion. Authority reduces unrest and makes it cheaper to increase stability.

An Inti state that has 100 Authority and owns at least 10 provinces can pass a Religious Reform, but doing so will remove all their Authority and spark a civil war as a pretender exploits the loss of authority to attempt to seize the throne for themselves. After all, every reformer is challenged if they go too far.

If you lose this civil war, two Religious Reforms are lost, greatly setting back your progress towards reforming your religion.

As with the Nahuatl and Maya, when the last reform is passed and you border a Western nation, you will be able to reform your religion, getting a tech boost and gaining the permanent benefit of the religious reforms. Because the Inti religion does not have the same cycle of expansion and contraction as other two, Inti religious reforms are generally weaker than those of the Maya and the Nahuatl, but easier to accomplish.

The Inti religion starts with +1 Tolerance of the True Faith and -0.05 Monthly Autonomy in all provinces and their reforms give +10% Manpower Recovery Speed, +1 Colonist, +0.5 Yearly Legitimacy, +0.05 Land Morale and -10% Core-Creation Cost.

As the Nahuatl reforms were not finalized in DD1, I will also take the time to share them: -0.05 War Exhaustion, +1 Diplomatic Relations, +5% Discipline, +1 Colonist and -20% Stability Cost Modifier.


Liberty Desire
In Conquest of Paradise, we introduced the concept of Liberty Desire for Colonial Nations, measuring their desire to break away from their parent country, but the system has always been a bit too simplified revolving almost entirely around tariffs and very rarely resulting in said Colonial Nations winning their independence.

In the 1.10 patch, we will be introducing a major rework of Liberty Desire that turns it into a much deeper and more interesting system, but also expands it to all other subjects such as Vassals and Personal Union juniors. In 1.10, each subject has a Liberty Desire towards their Overlord, calculated based on a large number of factors such as opinion, diplomatic reputation, relative power, and relative diplomatic technology levels. Certain subject types like Marches and Client States are more loyal and thus have inherently lower Liberty Desire, while the Daimyos of Japan are an unruly bunch and have a large bonus to their LD. Vassals will also be aware of the power of all vassals relative to their liege, and their Liberty Desire will go up if they think that they could, together, bring you down. (This might even tame early game France - a little.)

While Liberty Desire is lower than 50, the subject will be considered ‘Loyal’ (as seen in their attitude). They will dutifully pay taxes, send their armies to help you in war, and refuse any offers of Support for Independence.

If Liberty Desire is above 50, but below 100, the Vassal is considered ‘Disloyal’. They will refuse to pay taxes and tariffs, won’t send their armies to help you in war (only defending their own territory) and will both look for foreign powers to support their independence and seek to ally with other rebellious subjects of their liege. If they find allies and supporters, their Liberty Desire goes up by an amount depending on the power of said supporters and allies.

At 100, the subject will be ‘Rebellious’. They will not only refuse to pay taxes and send help, but will declare war for independence the moment they think they have a shot at winning. When a subject declares war for independence, they will automatically call in all other subjects of their liege that they are allied to, and all independence supporters of both themselves AND their allies, meaning that their liege can be faced with quite the independence war indeed.

All in all, this system is meant to make vassals feel more lifelike - they are no longer mere slaves to their liege’s whims, but independent entities with their own goals who may turn on their ‘overlord’ if he does not take care to maintain their loyalty.


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Check out all the videos for #EuropaUniversalis IV: El Dorado expansion here:
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While the changes to liberty desires make sense for PUs and colonial nations, I don't think it makes much sense for vassals.

I think there are other factors that should lower liberty desire from vassals, like same culture / culture group as the liege, same religion / religious group, same dynasty, distance to liege's capital, etc.

The French vassals revolting from France would be unrealistic. They'd have no reason to do this.

wat ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_Public_Weal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundian_Wars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_War
seem realistic enough to me
 
I didn't have many reservations about the first 2 DDs, but the vassal liberty desire can put a serious crimp on the viability of vassals in general depending on how it's tuned and how pissy they get when one is annexed. What doesn't excite me about it the most though is the need to micromanage opinions constantly, which already exists to a degree but will be made a bit more intrusive with them wanting to shake loose. If it's just something that keeps you honest and not feeding great powers close to your own size I wont mind it. If it's something that makes a guy 1/4 of your size bring in a rival 1/2 your size on a failed suicide independence run to interrupt annexation, the mechanic takes a step back rather than forward.
 
How about a LD over 50 reduces the prestige cost of removing the vassal from you vassalage? It will help to handle those vassals that never revolts but never are happy.
 
So for having a difficult early game, the South Americas now have broken religions. So, do they keep those bonuses if they westernize? Do they still get things like Christian influences? OR some flavour events that convert provinces like Japan? Do they still count as "Pagan", or can you convert to those religions via rebells?

Edit:
I just realized, that with the new changes, revoking privilegia now basicly seems impossible. Cause you will always be smaller than all your vasalls together. I have to do that in my Austria game before they patch !!!!!
 
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The new liberty desire sounds a lot more interesting than these new (pre-)latin american mechanics.

With the way the Nahuatl treat their vassals, I bet they'll have a swell time working with LD.
On top of that, the doom counter and europeans, I think I will be avoiding playing Aztecs...
 
With the way the Nahuatl treat their vassals, I bet they'll have a swell time working with LD.

Also: Do the Mayans retain cores on provinces they have lost due to reform?

LD is going to be non-issue to Nahuatl I think. You're going to get 5 vassals ASAP, abuse them to hell to lower doom, then pass a reform that makes them insta-declare on you regardless of LD according to the DD. Even if vassal LD didn't exist, you'd make them hate you so much that you'd probably wind up eventually annexing them in war rather than diplomatically regardless.
 
The new LD mechanics seem pretty cool. So from what I understand, when a colonial nation's LD gets high enough, it allies with other CNs and they declare independence together, but when that happens, will there still be some CNs that remain loyal to the mother country?
 
I didn't have many reservations about the first 2 DDs, but the vassal liberty desire can put a serious crimp on the viability of vassals in general depending on how it's tuned and how pissy they get when one is annexed. What doesn't excite me about it the most though is the need to micromanage opinions constantly, which already exists to a degree but will be made a bit more intrusive with them wanting to shake loose. If it's just something that keeps you honest and not feeding great powers close to your own size I wont mind it. If it's something that makes a guy 1/4 of your size bring in a rival 1/2 your size on a failed suicide independence run to interrupt annexation, the mechanic takes a step back rather than forward.

That was my first thought as well. Much like you, I am worried about how all of this will work. With the Influence idea group giving your subjects increased force limits and now with vassal banding together to break free, sounds like if they don't balance it properly, it will just add unnecessary tedium to a fairly simple and already fairly nerfed aspect of the game.
 
That was my first thought as well. Much like you, I am worried about how all of this will work. With the Influence idea group giving your subjects increased force limits and now with vassal banding together to break free, sounds like if they don't balance it properly, it will just add unnecessary tedium to a fairly simple and already fairly nerfed aspect of the game.

Influence does not increase your vassals' forcelimits, it increases how much forcelimit YOU get from your vassals.
 
That was my first thought as well. Much like you, I am worried about how all of this will work. With the Influence idea group giving your subjects increased force limits and now with vassal banding together to break free, sounds like if they don't balance it properly, it will just add unnecessary tedium to a fairly simple and already fairly nerfed aspect of the game.

Dont know about you, but I have never seen any kind of subject break free ever (except for those more-or less scripted to do so in 1444 start, like Sweden).

And for it to be any kind of interesting, it needs to be a concern for the player and not only the AI nations.

So it has to be tough. Vassals need to have an actual desire to break free, and do anything it takes to do so. If not they are just moronic slaves, artificial extensions of the overlords territory with a different colour.
 
Dont know about you, but I have never seen any kind of subject break free ever (except for those more-or less scripted to do so in 1444 start, like Sweden).
I've seen CNs break free.

Admittedly, my interference in their overlords' affairs may have, um, contributed to their success.
 
Awesome! With liberty desire added to colonies, the sum total of this update is shaping up to be an awesome rework of colonialism, awesome. Can I say awesome again?

...and liberty desire given to vassals and marches? I am really excited.
 
Doesn't sound like it will be much fun for colonial powers, especially if you plan to conquer all of it. Some of the larger colonial armies can get very huge armies if you get all the land. I think I saw Mexico with 60k troops.
 
Can we get a new ETA for this DLC? Really looking forward to trying out the Mayans!

P.S. I presume that with this new DLC, a converted game from Sunset Invasion will make the Aztecs and Incans start out reformed?
 
Sounds great! I'm actually disappointed to hear that there's another diary next week, but only because I want you to take my money already. Have you guys considered trying Early Access for your DLC, like your beta patches, to help with balancing? ;)