Feedback Requested: Espionage

[SmiddY53]

I play A LOT of crimcorps (arguably the empire that most makes use of espionage) of all flavours and actually engage with espionage quite a lot, both vs AI and vs real players.

I actually really like a lot of how the espionage system already works, very passive but it could be more easily accessible/obviously accessible or at the very least demand SOME sort of attention for YOU to DO something rather than you having to seek it out through the empire contact screens.

I like a lot of the operations already, decently impactful without feeling oppressive to be on the receiving end of. I would either trim/merge the useless stuff and add some brand new stuff, or buff some of the existing stuff to be practically brand new, or all of that?

Gather intelligence; for a crimcorp? great stuff.. after the 'trust' rework this is the easiest way for me to find enemy empire worlds to slap down branch offices ASAP. getting 30-60 intel is quicker than getting the trust to build pacts and opinion. for any other empire? useless. other empires need a reason to use it, also it loses its usefulness quickly by mid game.

spark diplo incident; seems to be useless unless you play on a tiny, curated galaxy of 3-4 curated empires.. needs to be more 'targetable'.

sleeper cells; good stuff, lock in your intel for 15 years (maybe make this longer?) so you can move your limited envoys off to do something else. could just get rid of this entirely and just always keep your intel?

acquire asset; eh.. useful, could be better. needs to be more 'targetable' (need to be able to pick what you want. not just get given a random one). i would actually merge this and gather info together. assets already passively buff intel gathering.. just merge them, make it the first in the tree, need some 'unique' assets in the same vain as 'unique' paragon leaders, etc. maybe you could roll a saboteur that doesn't just destroy one starbase module, but 2 or 3, etc.

extort favours; after the empire p2p trade rework no longer being able to trade favours, and favours naturally being much harder to come by without sinking into a whole tradition tree or 3, i like this one. i'd leave this completely untouched

smear campaign; same as diplo incident, useless unless using a curated galaxy. needs to be more targetable and spammable to begin with. would probably just merge with diplo incident tbh, make it more powerful, make it more expensive

steal tech; awesome operation. wouldnt change much about it, maybe make it a little more 'targetable'? if the target has nothing to steal maybe make the resources scale instead of a flat 1000 per branch?

sabotage starbase; has won me like 2 multiplayer games by itself, but highly situational. i've used it to destroy cloaking detection modules on enemy multiplayer detection starbases to enable me to juuuust jump my cloaked corvettes and frigates undetected into their space for first war strikes. other than that? completely useless. needs to be more targetable

arm pirates; has indirectly won me a few AI and multiplayer games, purely by chance though. spawned in at a key chokepoint in a far flung system at just the right time cutting off trade. needs to be more targetable rather than basically spawning into a random system, needs to 'scale' higher now that the power scale of the game has grown so much. i would just merge this and sabotage starbase and call it 'raiding party'.

crisis beacon; dont have much experience with this one tbh, very limited window of time to use it?

emperor operations; all pretty much useless because having a bigger fleet matters the most

consume star; i love this one, powerful operation for defeating a powerful leviathan. i always charge for the stellarite devourer purely for this operation. we need more 'special' operations like this.

lure the kaleidoscope; i like this one too, but this one needs to present itself to you if/when the event occurs. you're too busy dealing with -2000% resources, -50% energy income to go and worry about spying on someone.

some things you could add; need some more operations that interact with more dlc. if utopia is installed; target mega/kilostructures/hyperlanes/gateways. if paragons is installed; target planetary officials and government leaders (scientists and commanders are already killable). if first contact is installed; something to buff your own cloaking against a target. maybe a way to falsify your fleet/starbase/econ/tech power to another empire? ethics based operations?

we also need more influence storage OR espionage could buff influence generation somehow OR espionage could just not cost influence at all? because taking as much space as you possibly can and using all of your influence for that through expansion and claims is still far more enticing than doing any of the above.

 

[Flarkinater]

I think it would be cool if you could turn the intel/espionage system "inwards"
Maybe some operations to influence your own factions/ethics, suppress piracy, affect crime rates etc.

 

[fuzzyfuzlet]

personally I really rather appreciate the branch office and holding mechanics, and would enjoy seeing a version of it for subterfuge. similar mechanics of more buildings available based on population, with an upfront cost and periodic expansion, but otherwise rather low upkeep with the buildings providing passive detriments to their planet and empire, while aiding yours.

it’d be less profitable than criminal heritage branch offices of course, but could even be merged with criminal heritage, and a non-megacorp version made of intergalactic superspies or pirate haven. the buildings could do various things like increasing unrest, stealing science or unity, farming for favors, stealing influence, etc. with active events sprinkled in while trying to crack down on the spy branch, effectively making it less micromanaging and more reactive as well, with steps you can take to try and shut down the branch, and counter-espionage casus belli

 

[The Founder]

Over the years I made a number of suggestions that relate to Espionage. Since you are asking for Feedback, I thought I bring them back up.

A notification that the Spy Network has reached the maximum level:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/spy-network-has-reached-maximum-notification.1469768/

Having good Sensor coverage should feed into Intel gathering:

3.0 Suggestion - Sensor Converage should improove Intel

I know, it is propably to early to make suggestions, but I had one Idea and wondered what others thought about it: Having Sensor Coverage of another Empire, should give a bonus to Intel/Espionage. The more of their planets and Systems you have...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

"Veiled Cradle" origin, that largely relies on the previous thing:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/origin-idea-veiled-cradle.1466303/

(I actually made those two before Espionage was even released)

If you want to use your High Diplomatic Weight, you have to give everyone else a certain minimum Intel:

Using high diplomatic weights should require disclosure

"The Whole Point of the Doomsday Machine is Lost if You Keep it a Secret!" My idea is that in order to use a high diplomatic weight from fleets, you would have to grant everyone a certain minimum amount of intel on your military. And the same...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

And finally, a different way to do Salvage/Tech Stealing/Reserach Agreements:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/reverse-engienering-replacement-technology-traces.1070424/

 

[Mister X-X]

There must be a system of Espionage and Counter-Espionage! Spies leveling specialization

 

[Psicke]

I want espionage and counter espionage to be very story telling and character focused with a menu similar to technologies but to launch plans of espionage using different relevant characters in your society, once chain of events start player could be surprised with happenings and have a choice to shape espionage/counter espionage efforts for each character

 

[grommile]

I want espionage and counter espionage to be very story telling and character focused

I want my counterintelligence corps to do their goddamned jobs and not pester me every five minutes.

 

[Adahn42069]

Espionage needs some more situationally useful operations with unique effects that aren't readily available through other systems. Incite Planetary Revolt, Promote [Your] Ethic and Sabotage Border Sentries (forces open borders for a time / allows you to ignore closed borders on the target empire, letting you access blocked systems) would be situationally useful. Currently there are no operations that are worth running for most of the game in many playthroughs.

Diplomatic Incident / Smear Campaign aren't useful unless they can be targetted and probably can be merged.

Sleeper Cells / Aquire Asset suffer from being Espionage operations that only buff your espionage capabilities, which doesn't mean anything if those capabilities aren't effective in achieving goals in other game systems as is currently the case.

Generally infiltration & operations take too long - it is quicker to build a fleet and invade an empire than infiltrate it and do an operation or two, which seems underpowered. It probably makes sense to reduce infiltration time and influence cost of operations rather than buffing them too much to prevent issues people are concerned about such as too powerful sabotage operations without counterplay.

 

[SkylineOdeum]

Has anyone requested the ability to sabotage hyper relays, planetary defenses, storm buildings, and vivariums yet? Maybe steal some of the collectible artifacts introduced in Grand Archive? I feel those would all be things I would like to do with espionage. Would add to the number of people requesting spies to be an additional recruitable leader or envoy type as opposed to using envoys in a dual role.

 

[Alfnett29]

I like that access to information is blocked and it requires time and effort to uncover them.

Which is why the decision to have a visible "Victory" ladder with a specific score attached is boggling.

Some basic changes regarding access to information:
- Do not give players access to the total score for each faction;

- Change the Galactic Community so that the default setting is one vote per empire. This can then be altered through resolutions, but it also has the advantage of not revealing too much info about the relative strength of other empires too early (If I know an empire only has 500 diplo weight, it doesn't really matter if their military, tech and economic strength are unknown).

- After changing the voting method from one per empire to something else via resolution (e.g. weighted, as it exists at present), keep the individual weights a secret and only show the total weight for in favor vs against. Only at the end of a vote are those weights revealed, and they remain hidden for any empire that chose to abstain.

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Other than that, I think the current system's main problem is that we can't truly judge it because many of the projects we can undertake aren't that fun. Having more interesting options might be worth testing even before thinking about overhauling the system.

Also look at most of the existing ones.

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Finally, we need an espionage tab.

 

[The Founder]

Change the Galactic Community so that the default setting is one vote per empire. This can then be altered through resolutions, but it also has the advantage of not revealing too much info about the relative strength of other empires too early (If I know an empire only has 500 diplo weight, it doesn't really matter if their military, tech and economic strength are unknown).

I made a suggestion that actually getting the full Diplomatic Weight requires giving everyone else information (a minimum level of intel) on that sector:

Using high diplomatic weights should require disclosure

"The Whole Point of the Doomsday Machine is Lost if You Keep it a Secret!" My idea is that in order to use a high diplomatic weight from fleets, you would have to grant everyone a certain minimum amount of intel on your military. And the same...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

A large fleet can theoretically give you a big weight. But if you actually want that diplomatic weight, you have to flaunt it. But if you flaunt it, everyone get's intel on your actual capabilities and possibly fleet locations.