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Feedback Requested: Factions and Politics

Hello Stellaris Community!

The devs have started trickling back into the office, and we expect to resume our regularly scheduled dev diaries next week! This means this is our final feedback post of the holiday break, but we’re ending strong with something that we know a lot of you have been wanting for a long time: factions and politics.

Internal politics is such a nebulous term, and it means many different things to different people, and we’ve discussed internally many times just what “Internal Politics” means to us. But this is our opportunity to ask:

What does internal politics mean to you?

Here’s what Eladrin said in DD#364:
Factions and Politics
Governments in Stellaris may hold a grudge against you for centuries for your atrocities but pops and factions are very quick to forgive and forget. There are no revanchist or irredentist factions that make trouble when borders change, nor variety within the factions themselves. I’d also like to see factions have their own tenets and goals and different ways that you can deal with them. There have been a lot of calls for an “internal politics” expansion, but I think that it would really be politics and culture in general, affecting both your empires and those around you.

If we were to do something along those lines, I’d also want to add some variant of factions to Gestalt empires - maybe Instincts for Hives that grow more dominant based on your behavior or Directives that compete for priority in Machine Intelligences. They’d have to feel different from individualistic factions, however. Among individualistic factions, I could see the tenets of an Egalitarian faction from a Shared Burdens empire being very different from the Egalitarian faction in a non-Worker Coop MegaCorp, and these tenets might also be used to define the beliefs of your Spiritualist factions. I’d certainly want to explore spreading my factions into other empires.

As previously mentioned in all of these feedback posts: This is not a guarantee that an internal politics rework will happen at some point in the future. This is us collecting feedback from the community to inform potential future development.

So, Stellaris Community, let us know what you think about the current implementation of Factions, and what internal politics means to you in our final feedback form: Internal Factions and Politics.

Thank you for all your feedback over the holiday season, and we can’t wait to see what you think of what’s coming next for Stellaris!
 
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Just like Pop Choices, which it grew out of, Stellaris has never needed Factions anyway. It only became more sand in the gears of Stellaris. If Paradox wanted to improve Factions, then they would allow it to be removed from the game.
 
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One thing about Factions in stellaris is that sometimes i want to change my ethics, like make my empire egalitarian or more spiritualist, but even promoting a faction of that ethos, it is most likley to attract too few adherents to allow a change in my empire. This is of corse when those factions spawn, the vast majority of times factions from diferent ethics of the ones in my empire dont appear, so i cant change in game (at least not without cheats, as i learn recently....).

That is fine as a concept, the real problem being that you can generally just ignore the fact you can't change your ethics and act against them without consequences.

Really though, ethics in Stellaris is generally the computer people having an opinion on how you should be playing the game and that could be implemented more explicitly.
 
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Internal politics are so lackluster in Stellaris compared to any other Paradox game. I agree with the idea of there being more revaunchist and nationalistic factions in Stellaris.
Let’s say that you have just recently conquered some aliens and added a new sector to your empire. Those pops that have been recently conquered are more likely to be nationalistic and either desire a return to their original country or self determination and the establishment of a new empire. Nationalistic pops can either only be egalitarian, militarist, or xenophobic. Having nationalistic pops decreases stability on a planet by -5 for every pop, meaning they are more likely to revolt against you and as such are a major nuisance. Likewise your pops can also be revaunchist and nationalistic. Let’s say you just recently lost a war and had to give up a large portion of your territories. Your pops will be more likely to be militarist or xenophobic and would desire to return to your former borders.

Having just recently got around to play with the Under One Rule origin, i think the civil war mechanic left a lot to be desired within me. To me it’s just a glorified planetary revolt and not an ideal model for a potential civil war system. Let’s say that you have a political faction that has been unhappy for some time with your policies and empire. What they would do is organize and demand change similar to the reformist demands scenario in Under One Rule. If their demands aren’t fulfilled, they will become more and more violent and split your empire almost cleanly in two. Instead what I’d want to see is for factions to establish themselves within fringe territories and for one or multiple sectors to secede from your empire in the event of a factional civil war. This would more evenly divide your empire into two and make civil war scenarios not such an easy curbstomp. This would make them more like Hoi4 civil wars which are much harder and give neither side a clear and easy path towards victory. Same concept would apply to wars of succession for dictatorial and monarchical empires. Without an heir your empire would fracture amongst your factions and your leaders. There would be no clear cut victor and victory will be decided upon your decisions.
 
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I think I would start with two changes:

- First, factions should be much more important to running your empire. As other posters have pointed out, these are just unity pumps. Happiness and governance are not practical concerns, so the only reason to look at your factions is to boost unity income. Instead, your empire's core identity like traditions, perks, and ethics should be linked to the approval of your people. If the number of active traditions you can have at any one time was based on your faction approval, you could not ignore this mechanic anymore.

- Second, factions and their demands should be emergent more than static. Also as other posters have pointed out, factions just kind of feel like a list of arbitrary demands based on a kind of arbitrary list of political parties. This feels very out of place in a game about the story of your unique empire. Factions should emerge, in significant part, based on the experiences of your empire and the choices you have made, and their demands should drive the choices you have to make about how to build, grow and expand.

***


For the first, I would recommend changing factions so that they are essential to running your empire. You shouldn't be able to ignore factions if you want to get anything done. Among other options, I might consider:

- Link factions to governance, ethics, traditions and perks, so that your empire's development is linked to its internal support. For example, while you can earn traditions in the normal way, you can have a maximum number of "active" traditions based on faction support. The more you lose the support of the people, the less benefit you get from their traditions and culture. Or, the benefits of your government type and ethics are connected to/scale with the support of factions. Again, this represents the will of your people, and the less you represent them, the less identity your empire has.

- Increase the impact of faction happiness. Unhappy faction members should be less productive, unhappier faction members should go on strike, and very unhappy faction members should start emigrating to sympathetic neighbors. Edit - And mitigate any offsetting happiness benefits. Faction happiness should set a pop's base/max happiness. If a faction is at 70% approval, for example, that should mean that their maximum happiness is 70%.

- Make factions viral. Pops should have a chance to join a faction, in part, based on how many members of that faction are around them. Unhappy faction pops should be more likely to migrate toward each other internally, so that you can have concentrations of unhappy pops spreading through sections of your empire. Ignore those unhappy spiritualists too long, and you should turn around to find they they've essentially taken over those three planets over there.

For the second, I would recommend changing factions so that they are more emergent and ongoing. Among other options, I might consider:

- Factions should emerge based, in significant part, on your empire's experiences. Militant factions should be more likely to emerge from empires that have fought significant wars. Xenophobic factions from empires that have suffered invasion, or have been given other reasons to hate the outside world. Spiritualist factions from empires that have encountered great wonders. This should feel narrative rather than mechanical. Maybe you wanted to be xenophiles, but that brutal invasion years ago left your empire with a deep strain of xenophobia. Or even just that devouring swarm on your eastern border has caused a strong militant faction among those colonies.

- Factions should also emerge based, in significant part, on your empire's choices. The more you build up a military, the more you should expect militant factions to emerge. The more you pour into tech or wealth, the more materialists will pop up. This should feel like the story of your empire, with your factions based on the choices you have made (or been forced to make) over time. Maybe you wanted to be a spiritualist truth seeker, but a series of disasters forced you to tech up fast and now you've got a scientist faction that doesn't want to go back to temple.

- Factions should have demands based, in significant part, on your empire's experiences as well. Nationalist factions should want you to build up the seat of empire or its first colonies, for example. Other factions should have key systems that they want to claim (like in EU), or to retake systems you have lost. This should feel narrative, with faction demands emerging based on significant game events.

- Factions should have other demands that are based on ongoing empire actions and identity. Rather than wanting you to tick a box or maintain a status quo, they should only be satisfied with your ongoing actions. Militants should want you to keep building ships, not just hang enough in the sky and walk away. Others should want you to constantly be at war. Some pacifists, by contrast, should want you out there stopping wars and protecting people. Xenophobes should want you to keep chasing aliens further away, not just maintain a status quo of zero. Materialists shouldn't want a static amount of research or energy, they should want constant growth (more is never enough).

The factions you have should be based on what you have encountered in the galaxy and the decisions you have made. Making them happy should be about how you run your empire, and about what you have found in the galaxy around you. This shouldn't be about maintaining a status quo. This way, factions will always feel like a balancing act, where one choice inevitably pushes you in one direction or another.
 
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Also please I beg you let me somehow get other empires to follow my own ethics without using a liberation war. I want to make my subjects of my own ethic if they're loyal enough, or have a diplomatic option to promote a certain ethic in another empire at an influence and relations cost. Federations could have one "mandatory" ethic (decided by federation leader, changeable every 20 years or on leader change, and independent of federation type) which all members are compelled to have or else get kicked out (this could rely on a federation law which decides if they're just prevented from having the opposite or required to have it outright), of course hegemonies should just be able to force their members as kicking them out would not be an option.
I like this final idea, but I think it could be improved by utilizing a "soft power" approach, meaning that factions should be unique on an empire basis and if a certain empire has an influential faction that goes beyond its borders, it can cause other pops in the other empire to want "to wear their blue jeans". This creates engagement with the system and encourages interactivity between different pops across the galaxy. Makes them feel more than just a number.
 
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I put all this in the form:

All factions are good for right now is generating "unity." But once I pick all my traditions and turn on all my edicts, "unity" is basically a useless resource that accumulates into the millions with no way to spend it.

But when you think about it for more than 10 seconds, Unity is not a resource. It's a MEASUREMENT.

I live in the United States. We haven't been very unified for the last several years (your mileage may vary). It's therefore been really hard to get things done in the government. But there have been times (both historically and in my lifetime) when Americans were unified, and things did get done quickly: for instance, post- 9/11 or during WW2. Conversely, a country like North Korea is very "unified" in terms of national goals (accomplished through purges and propaganda, among other things), but it experiences significant economic and cultural drawbacks for being that unified.

I think this should be represented in Stellaris with a percentage measurement of how unified your empire really is: 0-100%. Early game, when you have one species on one planet with dominant ethics (and especially with a prosperous unification origin), unity should be very high. It should be easy to adopt new traditions (the threshold might be 60 or 66% unity with a time cooldown). But once you start colonizing different planets, those settlers will have a different outlook on things than people on the homeworld. Unity will decrease. Adding alien citizens (through conquest, refugees, or migration treaties)--especially ones with different ethics--will decrease unity a lot MORE.

When Unity drops below 50%, an empire should start experiencing governmental problems, which get worse as unity gets lower, until eventually a civil war breaks out. (A "Civil War brewing" situation could start at less than 25% unity.)

Of course, there should be things a player can do to ameliorate these unity hits--constructing buildings, dealing with factions, setting policies, and so on. This could give a real benefit to xenophobic playstyles because purging all the aliens will keep your government more unified! But at the cost of all those pops who could be working jobs. Fanatic xenophiles would have the opposite situation: lots of pops producing goods, but at the cost of a unified government. Migration treaties would become something to really think about: alien immigrants might decrease your unity, but the treaty could also allow all your discontented people to leave for free.

I agree with other comments made here that species really should have their own factions that want species-specific goals (e.g., "Full Citizenship for all Blorgs!"). A faction that isn't being pleased should have a negative impact on unity; ones that are being pleased should have a positive impact. With work and careful management, a player should be able to unify a multispecies empire enough to get things done.

Events should also have an impact on unity. An authoritarian, militaristic empire might get a unity bonus when they declare war on someone else. An egalitarian empire might get a bigger bonus, but only in a defensive war. Building certain megastructures (say, Mega Art Installation or Strategic Coordination Center) might provide a permanent 5% bonus for the rest of the game. Upgrading planetary administration buildings could lessen the unity hit from that particular planet. (Empire unity could even be a weighted average of planetary unity if that would help.) Propaganda edicts could have a real impact on pops' ethics, and thus overall unity.

But most of the events that impact unity should come from internal politics. Internal politics should be very, very different for each government type. Monarchies should have to deal with court politics (borrow what you can from CK3). Dictatorial authorities should have to appoint leaders, whereas democratic ones have to deal with the outcomes of elections at every level. (At this point I would like to repeat what I said in response to "The Vision" about leader caps being arbitrary and absurd and how every leader slot should be filled, lest penalties ensue. You can't have internal politics without having political players.) Oligarch and Corporate empires would have own, unique internal political games.

In all these cases faction should be an essential trait of all leaders. It may even partially determine their other traits, just as party affiliation corresponds with agendas IRL. And factions' power should not only correspond to the number of pops aligned with that faction, but also with how many of that faction's leaders are in positions of power. A North Korea-type dictatorship might have high unity because it only allows one faction, but that very act also severely limits their talent pool. On the other hand, in a democracy, undesirable factions might win elections and force their agenda on an empire. I miss how in previous versions, democratically elected leaders had an agenda to complete if they wanted to be re-elected. We should bring that back and tie it to the faction trait of leaders, which will make the agendas feel a lot less arbitrary.

This can lead to all sorts of storytelling potential. For instance, what if a planet on the edge of a democratic empire receives a ton of alien refugees? If they're unemployed, perhaps the crime rate goes up and the planet elects a xenophobic governor whose agenda is to change the empire's refugee policy. Or if those refugees become a majority, perhaps they elect a governor of their own species whose agenda is to get the republic to declare war on the empire that caused them to become refugees in the first place. What happens if either one of those governors gets elected president? And so on.

TLDR: Unity should be a measure you work to maintain and improve, not a resource. Internal Politics should be a game-within-the-game that is different depending on your government type.
 
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I wish for factions to takes place of leaders. Of course there should be much more factions. But I can't imagine how Dingle governor can easily govern whole planet, not to mention sector. Whole faction should be involved. Exception could be event leaders.
Also, more tensions within empire, make happiness and stability, and crime do something and be difficult to maintain, especially in larger empires. There should be opportunity cost for expanding, and AI should also try to stay as small as they can to avoid stability drops and rebellions.
Also also, multiple species on same planet should cause stability drops (less for xenophile pops).
Xenophile ethic should not contradict authoritarian. Xenophile should not care about slavery at all, only about purges - egalitarians should care about slavery, yes even xenophobe egalitarians should be against slavery, they should not want xeno species in their borders even as slaves.
 
Ascended societies should face a policy choice on how to handle those currently un-ascended. Non-psionic pops simply cannot fully and equally participate in a psionic society; a society that relies on cybernetics is similarly not equally accessible for those without cybernetic functions. There is an undeniable difference in ability. Essentially, there are (at least) five potential different choices:

Also, clothes should be optional.
 
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One thought was having different faction types and interests based on your Civics, government, and (maybe) culture.

Take Mining Guilds? Now there's a faction for those Guilds who push for additional mining districts and stations.

A monarchy might have Great Houses, each of which has their own interests focused on their fiefdoms, and the Royal Family faction. When you create a sector, you have to grant it to one of the Houses or hold it as royal territory. The strength of each faction is based on how much territory they hold and how populous it is. The factions might make demands for more territory, new buildings, or decreased tithes. And of course they can have inter-House warfare where personal armies duke it out on one of your planets.
 
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I just wanted to thank the devs for the opportunity to prove these feedbacks. It was a great way to fill up what would otherwise be deadspace over the winter holidays without interaction with the community. I hope that they prove useful in the future. Both for Stellaris updates and DLC and for Stellaris 2 which I hope is in the planning stages by now.
 
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Factions can never hit 100% approval on a consistent/permanent basis without Democracy's help. I'd like to see 100% approval be much easier without needing the crutch that Democracy provides. Namely Democracy should be a luxury, not a necessity to hit 100% Faction approval and the one faction that comes to mind is Spiritualists. They hate you if you even think of having Robots but they don't reward you by outlawing them. Parliamentary Systems Civic should have some function regarding Factions aside from having them form within 90 days of game start. Yes, the +40% Faction output is nice, but I feel that the Civic could do more to justify it being kept long-term. +10 Faction approval like Democracy would be a start as I see it. Certain Civics like Cutthroat Politics should also boost Faction approval. I'd also like to see Factions have an affinity for a particular Government Authority. Egalitarians and Authoritarians already do this but as for the other 6 Ethics, I feel they too should lean towards a specific Authority. To me Xenophobe, Militarist and Spiritualist tend to lean towards Autocratic Authorities, are indifferent with Oligarchic and may dislike Democracy(albeit not as much as Authoritarian) while Xenophile, Pacifist and Materialist tend to lean towards Oligarchic/Democratic Authorities.

Factions should also have a preference towards Council Positions. Xenophobe should dislike Minister of State while Xenophile likes it. Same deal with Minister of Research(Materialists want it, Spiritualists do not), Minister of Defense(Militarists want it, Pacifists do not). Fanatic Ethic should yield double the approval/disapproval from their respective faction(s) and not to go on a tangent here but Fanatic Ethics should provide a unique bonus to a respective Councilor position. Like Fanatic Authoritarian/Egalitarian buffs Ruler, Materialist buffs Minister of Research, Xenophile buffs Minister of State, and so on.

Also having played Under One Rule for a bit, it was nice having "quests" or goals to accomplish. Not saying we bring back the old mandate system where if you fulfill it you get a Unity boost or some other reward but maybe it would yield trust towards certain Leaders when it comes to Elections. Those that follow through on goals/objectives get a nice boost while those that fail may get penalized when they're up for re-election.

Also, on another tangent here but I strongly suggest merging Diplomacy and Politics into one Tradition. Politics is basically Diplomacy but on a Galactic scale. I'd also like to see Federations decoupled from Diplomacy Tradition and instead having Galactic Union available from the start of the game with the other Federation types requiring an Origin(Hegemony for example) or completing the necessary Tradition to unlock it(Harmony yields Holy Covenants, Discovery yields Research Cooperatives, etc.).
 
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Do you know what I would like to see in Stellaris? A political axis. I would like to know if my government is right-wing or left-wing.

Doesn't really work because there aren't any classes, aside from Slave VS Non-Slave. There are occupational ranks, but class isn't simply a matter of occupational rank.

The existing ethics could be treated as an axis though, rather than a chosen trait.
 
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To me, factions are a waste of time and underbaked when they center around ethics exclusively. Think about it: you'll encounter the same factions in every game, especially if you have diverse ethics. They become non-descript, boring, and sometimes a hindrance if you want to change your ethics. I recall back in the day their purpose was to enforce certain playstyles within your choice of ethics. It does the job, but it does nothing more

All that said, I think factions should have a much more important purpose: representing civics rather than ethics. Think about it: Civics represent important institutions and organizations within an empire. If you crafted their desires around the unique advantages/disadvantages that a civic is supposed to bring, it could go a long way towards diversifying the more generic civics. It might also help make government reform less tedious by decoupling ethics with factions, but that's another problem.

Other items on my wishlist include:
  • Factions having planetary influence, giving them more of a presence in the game. Bonus points if rebellion is a highly remote possibility.
  • International factions, possibly emerging from diplomatic agreements
  • Outright hostile factions, possibly pirates or crime families or, heck, insurgencies created by rival spy networks
 
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I would like something influenced by Victoria, but obviously not the same. But I feel like that game had a good sense of producing politics from pops in a complex economy. It would need to be wider and a little more shallow, with all the different kinds of politics that would emerge from impossible circumstances across a galaxy, but it does get to the kind of scale I would be looking for in Stellaris.
 
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Doesn't really work because there aren't any classes, aside from Slave VS Non-Slave. There are occupational ranks, but class isn't simply a matter of occupational rank.

The existing ethics could be treated as an axis though, rather than a chosen trait.
There are literally 4 classes in the game. But it would need to be a lot more complex, like an axis for each class coming from the government form (empire, democracy, hive mind, stratified by species, etc)
 
I've been thinking recently about the difference between "hivemind" and "group mind" concepts, all of this is great and it goes in that direction
I find hiveminds/groupminds extremely fascinating, I wish they were a more common trope because it allows for extremely complex social dynamics that would be fascinating to see on any medium, including Stellaris.
 
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An idea that comes to mind for Hive Mind factions are to make them more emotional or instinctive. As an analogy, if someone insults me, my Pride and anger would push me to retaliate. They might even make me do a physical action like clench my fists. But my Wisdom and Self-Preservation would stop them from doing anything too extreme. You could do something similar, where you might have factions representing your gestalt Anger or Curiosity.
 
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