HoI 4 Dev Diary - Formable Nations and Achievements

[Olliganak]

It just occurred to me that the Dev Diary doesn't actually say it, so are formable nations free content or part of the DLC?

 

[Zaras]

While you're at it, could you add some more cores and claims? Yugoslavia needs a core on Zara, e.g.

 

[keynes2.0]

I like Byzantium as much as the next person on these forums, but this actively repels me away from buying any HOI4 DLC. I want a WWII grand strategy game to be about strategy. This is supposed to be the end of a development cycle that fleshes out China. So will we get any mechanics to simulate the way Japanese logistics bogged down in China? No... instead we get Byzantium.

I dont hate the idea of ahistorical stuff in addition to the realistic stuff and mechanics that emphasize playability over "realism". I bought Sunset invasion and enjoyed it. But guys, you gotta throw the grognards a bone every once in a while. The point of the DLC is supposed to be so that development of the game can continue. What's the point of continuing to develop the game if the mechanics aren't going to gain any depth?

Personally I think that if the player conquers the world with Columbia and the name is 'wrong', it's a good thing. Turning Columbia into a superpower should require fiendish ingenuity and essentially breaking the system. Getting to the point where the game no longer can track you is the badge of honor, it show's you've made it.

 

[Robosoldier1]

I think people are dramatically overestimating the AI's ability to take the necessary territories. We have literally never seen it happen in our internal hands-off runs. Not once. Pretty much the only way this happens is if you feed the right nations the right territories in a peacedeal, at which point the game is practically over anyway.

So you admit your AIs not competent enough to even apply this new form of content ever? Because its too inept to take the required territories. Yet you guys still came to the conclusion this was a worthwhile factor of time and resources? Do you not see the problem of that and how it might irk some people? Especially that again you guys admit to see and tested with your own eyeballs that your game is flawed because of arguably one of the most important cruxes that influences a players experience, the AI. Oh boy I can form dead empire number 3 with no real challenge at all instead in the form of stat debuffs and meme strategies that I impose on myself.

Also I thought this was hearts of iron not Europa of iron 4. If I wanted to play/manipulate the current timeline setting with these long dead entities/coalitions then Id go play them through one of your other titles. If your so keen on a pre WW2 era that has some grounds and built around the foundation/systems in this title then just make a WW1 set of dates to play in. Instead of ham-fisting this absurd shit into the game. Whats next the Aztecs are gonna come back? How about the Inuits those guys were masters of statecraft.

 

[jckiller97]

I can't believe you actually put Gran Colombia here

It was great that you included the option of restoring the German empire, announced in that diary many months ago, but Gran Colombia?, It's simply amazing!
I thank you very much for it and can't wait to play Colombia when the patch comes out.

Picture taken from wikipedia

 

[keynes2.0]

(this might change later if we find a way to properly detect if a game has gone very ahistorical),

The rate things are going it feels like you can detect that by checking to see if the year is after 1936.

 

[Jeankazuhiza]

I'm the only one who's looking for a Chinese Islamic Republic led by Ma Bufang? Xibei San Ma should have such an option...

 

[Marcion]

I'm the only one who's looking for a Chinese Islamic Republic led by Ma Bufang? Xibei San Ma should have such an option...

Ma was a secularist and a close ally of Chiang Kai-Shek and the KMT, not some kind of proto-Ayatollah Khomeini.

 

[Pyro157]

Ma was a secularist and a close ally of Chiang Kai-Shek and the KMT, not some kind of proto-Ayatollah Khomeini.

Adding onto that: in general the Chinese Muslims were among the most devoted supporters of the KMT.

Xibei San Ma was certainly the most loyal clique to Chiang, and their army had a truly vicious hatred of the Communists.

Also, this famous newspaper article that's been adopted by Kaiserreich's fanbase as one of their trademark memes:

 

[Eiya]

Ma was a secularist and a close ally of Chiang Kai-Shek and the KMT, not some kind of proto-Ayatollah Khomeini.

Which also brings up that as far as I remember on the dev diaries, the unique complicated relationship between the warlord cliques and the central government is something that isn't elaborated on much. Not that I think it can be fully represented in a game like HOI 4 but it was worth trying at least...

On the other hand just to leave my 2 cents, Paradox should just stop playing with alt-history when they can't even get WW2 to play out correctly. Not to mention all the still missing features like espionage, and then adding to that the fact that we have to pay for most of these features when previous games at the least had everything in a basic 'complete' state without DLC.

 

[Broletariat90]

Paradox should just stop playing with alt-history when they can't even get WW2 to play out correctly.

I've been watching the Historical Germany stream and it seems to be playing out just fine as of now.

 

[SigmundTheDuke]

Why is everyone so against formable countries? I don't think the AI will ever be forming nations like Gran Colombia or the freaking Byzantine Empire.

 

[--Yigito123--]

Why is everyone so against formable countries? I don't think the AI will ever be forming nations like Gran Colombia or the freaking Byzantine Empire.

This. So much this. How does anyone expect AI Greece to be able to conquer Turkey, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Romania, even if it tried to (Which it won't, I doubt the AI will pursue formable nations)? I mean, even if it does happen, the game's likely already so off the historical rails that it's flying into space and discovering hyperlane travel (Not to mention it's most likely the player that gave Greece those lands in such case).

 

[jimkoons]

EDIT: How can some people be against the harmless inclusion of an *option*?

I feel you. Just saw an herd of fanbois stomping my rating fields too (but I know I was being vindictive and was prepared for that). "rule of cool" & "world of memes" is kind of a religion with its own prophets as quill18,... that's why they do not have the most open-minded opinions around here Just remember that their disagreements remains respectful

But to stay on topic I saw that Archangel85 mentioned a screen like in CK2 where we could choose our options before starting the game, I do hope formable nation are in it!

 

[hrkhrk1]

China's sales are fourth.HOI4 is very popular in China.The number of Chinese used in the world is the first.Many enthusiasts volunteered to translate the game into Chinese, although it was hard, but they did it. Why not launch official Chinese？

 

[Robosoldier1]

Why is everyone so against formable countries? I don't think the AI will ever be forming nations like Gran Colombia or the freaking Byzantine Empire.

That just adds to the point. As they have laid out the AI can't do it, and lets just say for the sake of argument the player doesn't want to do it. Please reveal to me how this ultimately values the players in the long run or enhances gameplay? In short it doesn't. But while you ponder it yourself consider that you actually go through and apply this mechanic. How often do you think you will do it? Once? Twice? Three times? Well the Minimum is obviously gonna be once for each formable nation (3-4ish?).

So ok you formed your countries.... now what? Where do you go from there? End the game? Obviously not because your not gonna waste a 2-3 hour timeframe to just drop the save and if you do then that just shows the experience isn't that full-filling. Play out WW2? Well thats shot out the window because you've most likely generated a great deal of waves in your quest to form your new empire and the ripples undoubtedly will throw the AI into a fit of confusion or make it so one sided that the game is just pointless to continue. Do your own thing? Sure you can conquer the world and screw around with other nations politics but hows that different to what you were doing before and if its just as easy because the AI still sucks how is it at all more rewarding? Great I ate the world as the Kalmar union instead as the German Reich, oh joy.

Honestly Fluff isn't a bad thing but you'd think they'd get a bit more into actually refining core features and addressing the big flaws that still plague the game instead of doing this particularly when the fluff is just so hollow and less rewarding as compared to having a competent challenge beyond just stat debuffs and personal crutches. Especially since these flaws fundamentally are disrupting the experience by a huge margin both for the Singleplayer and Multiplayer experience.

 

[Nikolai II]

Honestly Fluff isn't a bad thing but you'd think they'd get a bit more into actually refining core features and addressing the big flaws that still plague the game instead of doing this particularly when the fluff is just so hollow and less rewarding as compared to having a competent challenge beyond just stat debuffs and personal crutches. Especially since these flaws fundamentally are disrupting the experience by a huge margin both for the Singleplayer and Multiplayer experience.

Well, if I'd give my take it's more about not having very much to say this week, so showing off how they packaged this thing to help modders into the new decision system, and also displaying some of the options they spun up during a brainstorming session just to have the system also used in the main game instead of in mods only.

So, it was a short job made mostly with a few resources and when there were more involved it was also a "regain energy, rekindle spirits" thing of deal, to be able to go back to the main (and unforgiving) tasks of trying to create a WW2 experience in a wide open sandbox game (which means that it takes very little of the differences between nations in regard).

 

[jpapple]

Why can't I form Ming?!

You can form Qing

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

SCA_UNIFIED_communism:0 "Scandinavian Socialist State"

I'd suggest to call it "Scandinavian Socialist States", similar to "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics".

But perhaps a few older achievements could be adjusted slightly?

Afaik they never did that. If you want the achievement you basically have two options: Either you take the challenge and try it with new conditions, or you revert to the version of the game the achievement was designed for (in this case pre TfV). Personally I made the achievement you're mentioning post TfV but pre DoD so I can't disagree to your statement (which does not mean I agree) that it's "impossible" now. But I doubt it.

 

[sinanziric]

You can form Qing

I don't want Ming or Qing, I want Tang