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HOI4 Dev Diary - A New Germany

Hello everyone, and welcome to a new dev diary for the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update and the as-yet unannounced accompanying DLC.

For those of you who missed my introduction, I’ll briefly introduce myself. My name is Drikus and, after working briefly on DOD to help out the Content Designers on HOI4 back then, I re-joined the team in the summer to work on the next expansion, working with @Archangel85 and @Havebeard on all that CD goodness. Today I’ll be talking about some of the stuff we’ve been busy with since then.

Ever since release it’s become clear that the fanbase's interest in alternate history is far greater than we anticipated. Unfortunately, many of our focus trees for major powers are somewhat lacking in that regard, and it's something we want to change. So, while we will naturally be adding some new focus trees, this time around we will also be revamping two major nations. If this proves popular we plan to keep doing this in future expansions and eventually have all the majors with more options. For now, though, we figured a good start would be the most popular nation in HOI4: Germany!

In the next DLC, Germany will have its focus tree updated to bring it more in line with the new trees of minor nations, especially in terms of alternate history options. Furthermore, even players who do not buy the DLC will see some of these changes. For instance, we made some effort to flesh out the industrial part of the German tree. Initially only being a quick path of 4 focuses, it has now been expanded into a full 16-focus monstrosity, with paths leading into more fortification focuses, more domestic industrial focuses, and more focuses dealing with the ‘economic vassalization’ of Hungary and Romania and other areas of Europe. As a bonus, the 5th research slot is now accessible somewhat earlier, and no longer requires Air Innovations II. These changes do affect industrial balance somewhat, and we will go into how we handle that at the very end of the diary.

Germany Industry.PNG


All of the abovementioned will be free in the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update. What comes next, however, will be part of the DLC.

Use the full tree at the end of this dev diary to follow along. :)

Alternate history paths for Germany beg the question of when and how Hitler could have been stopped. These questions are very controversial, and there usually isn’t much consensus. We, however, have elected to explore the possibility of a concerted Wehrmacht opposition to Hitler, sparked by the Rhineland remilitarization.

Germany Civil War.PNG


A new path has been added, mutually exclusive with the Rhineland focus. It sparks a civil war led by the legendary August von Mackensen. Once won, the path splits, allowing the player to choose between reviving the old Kaiserreich (renaming the country to “German Empire”) and lifting Kaiser Wilhelm II’s exile in the Netherlands, or reinstating democratic elections and establishing a constitutional monarchy as a ‘compromise’ for the rather royalist (and powerful) Wehrmacht officers. In this path, Wilhelm II’s son will take the throne as Wilhelm III as a figurehead. In addition, there is a small 4-focus shared path focusing on the rebuilding of Germany after the Civil War, leading up to the German continental role as a “Bulwark against Bolshevism”.

Germany von Mackensen.PNG

Who wouldn’t want this guy leading their country?

In the Imperial branch, the player now gets the choice of either avenging the Great War, or letting bygones be bygones and focusing on the Communist threat. The former leads to Germany once again asserting its right of a ‘place in the sun’ (bullying China or Japan for the return of Tsingtao), focusing heavily on rebuilding its High Seas Fleet to challenge Britain (including some nice bonuses to battleship production and research), and then taking the fight to the British and French for their colonies. To this end, a new very powerful late-game focus has been added that will flip a significant amount of the country’s military production to naval production, in case the Soviet Union has been defeated and the player wishes to focus on the West (also available to fascists, if the player owns the DLC). The branch also enables the recreation of the Central powers via stimulating imperial sentiment in the Austro-Hungarian successor states and the assassination of Mussolini in favor of King Victor Emmanuel III.

Germany Wilhelm II.PNG

Can never have enough Pickelhaube...

The second Imperial path focuses on forgiving the British and giving up all dreams of an Imperial Navy. In return for accepting British naval supremacy, it is possible to form an alliance with them and stand together against the threat of Communism all over Europe. A punitive war with (Communist) France over Alsace-Lorraine can lead to an expulsion of the republicans from Iberia, as well as eventually taking the war directly to the Soviets, themselves. I minor shared branch, available for both the British alliance and the colonial route, allows for Germany to protect its eastern borders, retaking Memel, trading Danzig for military guarantees against the Soviets, and aiding the Baltics and the Finns with guarantees and some military support.

Germany Tsingtao.PNG

Can you taste that sweet Tsingtao beer? Ahhh, come to fatherland...

The Democratic path involves some sneaky diplomatic maneuvering, scaring the other nations in Europe into your sphere of influence by speaking up strongly against the Soviets and demonizing them. This leads to creating a Central European Alliance, in which most minor nations in Europe can be invited through various focuses, allowing for democratic Germany to challenge the historic French continental leadership role by creating its own power block. This course of action will likely result in the Soviet Union posturing threateningly, though, and gaining various bonuses to prepare them against what they perceive to be a threat to their sphere of influence. The end result of this mutual and intentional escalation is likely that it will not be possible to invite all nations you could potentially invite before the Soviets invade them. Eventually, Germany can take the fight to the Soviets, leading Europe in a war against the source of communism. In addition, it is possible for Democratic Germany to get a 6th research slot, and to strengthen their alliance through tech sharing and other cooperation.

Germany Democratic.PNG

Unleash the Swarm!

In addition, we have adjusted focuses like “Operation Weserübung” to give the player better control over the timetable of their invasions once the ball starts rolling. We’ve slightly buffed the naval parts of the core tree, adding an additional naval build-up focus or two, and adding some dockyards to Plan Z. In light of the significant improvements to Germany’s economic build-up in the new industrial tree, we are also revisiting the start-of-game balance of the nation. The intention is to make Germany initially weaker, but also quicker in building up, especially before any war has broken out. To that end, we have added a new idea upon startup. MEFO Bills will reduce the consumer goods by 20% (resulting in virtually no consumer good requirements at all), but have to be extended every three months. The price of extending these will progressively increase, as will the penalty that must be paid if these are not extended. Paying off these bills can be delayed by going to war, in which case the payment will be deferred until after the war’s conclusion (so be sure you can afford it by that point!). And finally, just as with the industrial segment of the tree, everything that was mentioned in this paragraph will be available without owning the DLC.

Germany MEFO.png


And finally, in its full glory:

Germany_tree.jpg


Don’t forget to check out the World War Wednesday stream later today, where @Da9L and @podcat will go through this dev diary while the rest of us get our asses handed to us by the Allies in South America. We look forward to showing you more cool stuff next week! :)
 
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It has close to no relevance what kind of sentiments the (parts of the) general population has. It has almost only relevance what kind of sentiments the power elites have since they will shape the direction.

I think the capitalist elites initially feared communism much more than fascism because of it's international nature. They have percieved communism as a threat to their power while fascism not as long as they can be befriended because fascism is local in nature. The novel This Above All from contemporary Eric Knight tells this as a fact. Furthermore it tells that the capitalist powers even covertly supported the nazis from the consideration that they will be a tool against communism. Just this fighting dog went mad.

Of course postwar narratives will exclude these aspects :)
On the other hand, socialist ideas were popular among workers, whose life wasn't so great in 20-30-s. They have returned from trenches of Great War and what have they got? Rich has become richer, poor - poorer. Great award for dying in the mud for interests of elites.

What is more important, a lot of members of that "elite" found socialist ideas interesting too. We can remember Cambridge Five, or aristocrat Bartini, or left wing of NSDAP. A lot of writers and journalists visit USSR during Interbellum, and they haven't seen "one-big-prison-state".

These were american scientists, who gave to Soviet intel significant amount of information about the Bomb. By free will, without blackmailing or something like that.
 
All I am saying is that in the starting Scenario up until a certain Point in the war it isnt out off the realm of possibility to have a Anglo German alliance.

This is already part of the game though since if the Germans hold themselves back and let the Soviets do the initial aggressions the British will go to war against them.
 
Well true it's the politicians that make the calls. But there has to be a Level of understanding in a democratic Nation like Britain or atleast a very well done Propaganda to generate Support.

But yeah. There was Support for Nazi Germany in the higher ranks of GB and the US. Both on policitical and economy sides. As I said. If it wasnt Churchill and his firm stance against Facism and the ensuing Propaganda effort to Rally against the Third Reich, that whole Story might have played out allot different.

In democratic societies the main power is held by the high economy since the politicians are constantly changing but the persons behind economic power don't. So that the most relevance has what the capitalists want. In some sense the politicians are assets of the capitalists in a democracy.

But yeah Churchill had a very prominent role here that's for sure.
 
On the other hand, socialist ideas were popular among workers, whose life wasn't so great in 20-30-s. They have returned from trenches of Great War and what have they got? Rich has become richer, poor - poorer. Great award for dying in the mud for interests of elites.

What is more important, a lot of members of that "elite" found socialist ideas interesting too. We can remember Cambridge Five, or aristocrat Bartini, or left wing of NSDAP. A lot of writers and journalists visit USSR during Interbellum, and they haven't seen "one-big-prison-state".

These were american scientists, who gave to Soviet intel significant amount of information about the Bomb. By free will, without blackmailing or something like that.

Yes a communist threat in the West was probably indeed somewhat real back then.

The motivations behind supporting the commies post-war like you wrote i don't know. It is an interesting issue.
 
Yes a communist threat in the West was probably indeed somewhat real back then.

The motivations behind supporting the commies post-war like you wrote i don't know. It is an interesting issue.
Well, scientists of nuclear project simply understood, WHAT have they created and WHAT will happen pretty soon if only one state on Earth will own such weapon. Not like they were fanatical communists or something. Rational humanism, nothing more.

And demonizing of Soviets in the West will mostly come in already late 1940-s, as soon as Cold War starts. And it was targeting mostly young generation, who hasn't remembered Great War, Interbellum life with demonstrations and protests shot, Great Depression or feeding up nazi Germany with neighbors to target it to USSR.
 
Well, scientists of nuclear project simply understood, WHAT have they created and WHAT will happen pretty soon if only one state on Earth will own such weapon. Not like they were fanatical communists or something. Rational humanism, nothing more.

Yes maybe the desire to avoid mass scale genocide by only one side having this power. If both the main opposing sides have it then probably none of them will use so the genocide can be avoided....or will be total :)
 
Well true it's the politicians that make the calls. But there has to be a Level of understanding in a democratic Nation like Britain or atleast a very well done Propaganda to generate Support.

But yeah. There was Support for Nazi Germany in the higher ranks of GB and the US. Both on policitical and economy sides. As I said. If it wasnt Churchill and his firm stance against Facism and the ensuing Propaganda effort to Rally against the Third Reich, that whole Story might have played out allot different.

Show me the evidence of the widespread elite support for Hitler in the USA. I can show you the same for the widespread elite support in the US for Mussolini and Italian Fascism up until Italy invaded Ethiopia.

However, before 1936, support for Mussolini =/= support for Hitler.
 
Show me the evidence of the widespread elite support for Hitler in the USA. I can show you the same for the widespread elite support in the US for Mussolini and Italian Fascism up until Italy invaded Ethiopia.

However, before 1936, support for Mussolini =/= support for Hitler.

I cant give you any evidence, since I never spoke of a "widespread" Support for Hitler by the US or GB.

I am saying that Germany, the UK and the US all had People of influence to varrying degree, that saw the real enemy in the soviet Union and communism.
 
Henry Ford

This is well known. I'm talking about leaders of either major political party. People that could have had definitive influence over the direction of policy.

Show me someone in FDR's inner circle that was a nazi sympathizer? Once again, there were a few socialists and admirers of Mussolini, but I'm not aware of a single senior member of the House/Senate or Cabinet official that was a nazi sympathizer.
 
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This is well known. I'm talking about leaders of either major political party. People that could have had definitive influence over the direction of policy.

Show me someone in FDR's inner circle that was a nazi sympathizer? Once again, there were a few socialists and admirers of Mussolini, but I'm not aware of a single senior member of the House/Senate or Cabinet official that was a nazi sympathizer.
It was mostly big shots outside of government who were sympathetic to the Nazis. Like Ford as previously stated, and others like Charles Lindbergh. You could also include Charles Coughlin if you wanted to. We already have William Dudley Pelley, who was a bit of a nutcase with no real following. Prescott Bush did business with Germany during wartime, but I feel like that was more of just trying to make a profit then trying to help the regime. For organized groups, there was the German American Bund. They had a summer camp near my hometown of Milwaukee and were active in Chicago and New York in the 1930's. The Bund was most known for a rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939, which attracted 20,000. But how many of those people were actually there to support the rally then protest it is up for debate. :p

Also the establishment in the South and the Jim Crow laws were looked upon as a model for Nazi lawyers in the early 1930's. I believe a book about that was just released.

So if you look for it, Hitler and his movement had its fair share of admirers in the United States.
 
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It was mostly big shots outside of government who were sympathetic to the Nazis. Like Ford as previously stated, and others like Charles Lindbergh. You could also include Charles Coughlin if you wanted to. Prescott Bush did business with Germany during wartime, but I feel like that was more of just trying to make a profit then trying to help the regime. Also you had groups like the German American Bund. They had a summer camp near my hometown of Milwaukee and were quite active in Chicago and New York in the 1930's. They also had a rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939 which attracted 20,000. But how many of that were actually there to support the rally then protest it is up for debate. :p

All of whom were ostracized or changed their opinions before the invasion of Poland. FDR distanced himself from Coughlin after the 1936 election. Lindbergh fought in the Pacific. Henry Ford was written off as the stereotypical eccentric genius. The Bund's membership was probably no higher than 25000 people and never had any real impact on politics. The Bush thing was just as you say, business, as so many other business elites did business with Nazi Germany before the war. As you say, this hardly equates to endorsing nazism for the United States.

Now, generic Fascism in the United States? That's far more likely to have happened.
 
Even after 1936 it wasn't clear Mussolini would throw in his lot with Hitler. Mussolini played both sides until it became clear in 1940 France would lose.
 
Even after 1936 it wasn't clear Mussolini would throw in his lot with Hitler. Mussolini played both sides until it became clear in 1940 France would lose.

I think in all cases the common thread of Fascism is national self interest. Italy sympathized with the Nazis but would only align with them directly when the wind was blowing their way. Franco sympathized with the Fascists and Nazis but refused to align with them because he didn't think he was getting anything out of it and had too much to lose. Japan aligned with the other Axis powers not out of ideological sympathy but because their foreign policy was also interested in seeing the British and French dethroned. They did not want to attack the USSR just because, in theory, they were "allies" with the Axis.

In game it's obviously very simplified.
 
516E0%2BbVgnL._SY450_.jpg

I can has kaiser again?
Ooohhh boy!

(I hope every tag gets a focus free eventually!
*cough*Berber states*cough*
Also you can never have enough releaseable tags to puppet....)
 
I think in all cases the common thread of Fascism is national self interest. Italy sympathized with the Nazis but would only align with them directly when the wind was blowing their way. Franco sympathized with the Fascists and Nazis but refused to align with them because he didn't think he was getting anything out of it and had too much to lose. Japan aligned with the other Axis powers not out of ideological sympathy but because their foreign policy was also interested in seeing the British and French dethroned. They did not want to attack the USSR just because, in theory, they were "allies" with the Axis.

In game it's obviously very simplified.

National self interest is not unique to fascism. if it were, it would mean that Bismarck and Richelieu were fascists. It would mean that pretty much every monarch and state since forever has been fascist.

surely I'm misunderstanding what you are saying?
 
I am rather disappointed that no revamp or expand for the original Nazi Germany diplomats path....The industrial focus expansion is nice but there are also a lots of interesting scenario such as Operation Sealion, Operation Felix , Case Anton could be added.
 
National self interest is not unique to fascism. if it were, it would mean that Bismarck and Richelieu were fascists. It would mean that pretty much every monarch and state since forever has been fascist.

surely I'm misunderstanding what you are saying?

I'm not saying all national self interest is fascism, but rather our historical examples of fascist states all possessed it in spades. Earlier people were discussing communism as being perceived in this period as an international movement and therefore more threatening than fascism to many, and I was sort of agreeing. I would also point to Yugoslavia and the Sino Soviet split as examples where people came to realize later on that Communism was not as monolithic or immune to nationalism as people thought, but this did not happen until the post war period.
 
Regarding this talk of how much support Hitler had in 1936 and how ahistorical Hitler losing power might be, maybe the popup event after completeing these ahistorical focuses will address that?

Politicians lose public support due to a sudden scandal all the time. I'm not going to suggest what specific scandal to go with that might lead to Hitler's downfall - a historical one would be preferable, but obviously that might involve certain things that cannot be named - but in the absence of a historical scandal, a generic fictitious one can be made up.
  • "Hitler makes surprise faux pas during speech! Goring and Hess begin to distance themselves from the Chancellor."
  • "Hitler's war record questioned! 'Was he really at Ypers?' asks major political opponent. Missing record documents fuel speculation!"
  • "Hitler unable to address public due to severe respiratory illness. Doctors refuse to give chances on recovery. What will this mean for the NSDP's future?"
  • "Hitler implicated in graft scandal cover-up! Popularity plummets as details leak to British and French press!"
And so on. Obviously just one of these being the cause of a huge political shift is ridiculous, so it should be a series of reports of infighting, mismanagement, resignations, and scandal - much like the 'Stalin questions Finnish sovereignty' type event popups you get when justifying a war - that end in something like a snap election or a coup or whathaveyou.

I do think it is a concern to have the Focuses be capable of switching a nation's whole direction like a lightswitch. Even after the Focus is completed, it should take some time - especially in authoritarian nations like Fascist Germany. Democractic nations are handled with elections, but even those could use some nice flavor events too. Don't just say 'communists flock to rallies', say 'Rampant bank fraud fuels surge in communist support." Like it's an ongoing news story.
 
I'm not saying all national self interest is fascism, but rather our historical examples of fascist states all possessed it in spades. Earlier people were discussing communism as being perceived in this period as an international movement and therefore more threatening than fascism to many, and I was sort of agreeing. I would also point to Yugoslavia and the Sino Soviet split as examples where people came to realize later on that Communism was not as monolithic or immune to nationalism as people thought, but this did not happen until the post war period.

Thanks for clearing that up. I kind of agree and kind of don't. I'd rather not go off topic anymore though, so I'd be happy to discuss in PMs if you like.