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HOI4 Dev Diary - Amphibious Vehicles and Research

Hi everyone! Another wednesday means its diary time! Today we will be talking about some quite big balance changes to tech as well as some new... watery toys :)

Amphibious Armored Vehicles

With Man the Guns we are adding two new classes of vehicles. Amphibious Tractors (AMTRACs) and Amphibious Tanks. AMTRACs were built in large quantities and used both in the Pacific by US Marines with good success as well as in Europe during major river crossings such as the Allied crossing of the Rhine. An AMTRAC is a amphibious tracked vehicle that offers soldiers protection, and depending on model, firepower when conducting landings.

upload_2018-10-3_14-57-28.png


For heavier armor and firepower, amphibious tanks were developed. The allies used quite a lot of the Duplex Drive Shermans during D-Day. The idea was that the tanks would swim to the beach, then drive on to assault the German fortifications. The Sherman DD itself had some design problems, as it was designed for only 30cm high waves… which aren't exactly rare at sea. Many of them were also unloaded from their landing ships much too far out and sunk in the waves. Some beaches had good results, but for example Omaha beach was a disaster where most of them were lost. The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

upload_2018-10-3_14-57-55.png



These things combined means that you can design divisions to punch through heavily defended landing sites. Quite useful late game! These divisions are also great for when the enemy has fortified across a large river. On the flip side they are quite expensive to make, less fuel efficient and a little slower for what you get so you should have some plan for them before investing. Amphibious vehicle battalions also use your special forces limit, just like marines.

upload_2018-10-3_15-0-30.png



Man the Guns comes with 10 unique 3d models for the amphibious tanks:
mtg_amphibious_eng_sov.png

mtg_amphibious_ger.png

mtg_amphibious_usa_generic.png

mtg_amphibious_jap.png


The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

upload_2018-10-3_15-4-56.png

upload_2018-10-3_15-5-32.png


Research Changes
We are changing up some things when it comes to technologies as well. Because we have been steadily adding more, and are adding a bunch more with Man the Guns, we will be adjusting the base research speed to be faster. Probably something like +10%, but we haven’t locked that down yet.

We are also changing how the formula works for calculating how long it takes to research things. Instead of a research bonus lowering the cost of the research, bonuses now affect the speed of research. This means that an old -50% cost modifier is roughly the same as a +100% speed modifier now. I say roughly because speed modifiers stack a lot better and in less odd ways when there are many of them. This essentially means that you can no longer get instant techs by stacking various modifiers, just really fast research.

We have also changed how ahead of time works and the Ahead of Time Bonuses from focuses etc. no longer give you a percentage off, but a number of years off. This is important because it makes certain tech rush strategies where you simply bypass much of the tree by chaining ahead of time bonuses not work. We feel that these things will make things play a lot saner, and stop ahead of time researching to be banned in some MP groups ;)
upload_2018-10-3_15-33-50.png


The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
upload_2018-10-3_15-34-39.png


That’s it for this time! Do not miss that we are starting streaming of Man the Guns gameplay today, so tune in to see the new USA tree at 16:00 CET at https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
 
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Here is the full list of vehicles (3d models are as you can see in the picture in the diary):
LVT-1(A)
Sherman DD
LVT-2
LVT-4
Type 2 Ka-Mi
Type 3 Ka-Chi
Type 4 Ka-Tsu
Schwimmpanzer II
Tauchpanzer III
Land-Wasser-Schlepper
Land-Wasser-Schlepper II
T-40
PT-76
Valentine DD
Cromwell DD
Terrapin

So there is a model for the DD Sherman, but you didnt show it right? Because I love me some DD Shermans. Also when can we make Schwimmwagens? Its such a fun word.
 
Is this for Everyone or just für US alone like the Bicylce for Japan?

for everyone

@podcat

Will MP rules be usable in Singleplayer games for just playing around and testing things or is it possible to put MP rules in effect by starting a singleplayer game through the multiplayer interface?

the rules are available in SP also

Will that rule affect forts that exist on 1/1/1936 like the Maginot Line? How about forts added by focuses?

its only for new construction I think, so those circumvent it

Will the factions of past DLCs (Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia for DoD, etc.) get unique 2D art for their ambhibious tanks as well?
they get generics. I havent done research but I dunno how many of them actually had anything developed. I expect it would be rare
 
Why the hell haven't you done an amphibious FCM F1? ;)
 
Regarding the changes to research tokens in focus trees, are the old cost modifiers and so on completely removed, or are the new modifiers added in addition the old modifiers?
 
Yeah, you're right. I kinda forgot it's building fuel tanks that increases the stockpile ceiling.

I think building silos will be the nuclear option, since it takes away a slot for other essential buildings. I imagine most people will just build infrastructure everywhere, though I hope smaller states will give you less stockpile and it isn't just a flat sum.

The size of your national stockpile will depend on the number of states and their infrastructure, your economic law and if you have built Fuel Silos.
 
The ahead of time changes are going to be very harsh on the soviets, who rely on rushing modern tanks or medium 3 tanks to defeat the Germans in mp.
 
It seems a bit odd to me that you guys are making all sorts of 3D amphibious tank models, but not one for one of the most widely produced amphibious tanks: the M4 DD.

I was personally hoping for an Airborne tank model. For things such as the M22 Locust and the Tetrarch.

As a historical quibble, the names of the M3 and M5 half-tracks should probably at least be swapped around, since the M5 was a slightly inferior substitute to the M3. I also think that the British light tank models don't really make sense. They're all infantry tanks, which really map more to heavies than lights. I would've had the Matilda II as the 1936 Heavy Tank, and put the Vickers Light Tanks as the 1934 Light Tank and the Cruiser line as the 1936 Light Tank since those are vehicles the British used in large numbers that actually map to light tanks. There isn't really a good option for the 1941 Light Tank, so I guess the Valentine can stay.
 
Tech changes look great. Do the amphibious tanks not have tank destroyer, mobile artillery or anti-air variants like the other tanks, as they don't have the upgrades attached in the image?

Edit: spelling
 
Hi everyone! Another wednesday means its diary time! Today we will be talking about some quite big balance changes to tech as well as some new... watery toys :)

Amphibious Armored Vehicles

With Man the Guns we are adding two new classes of vehicles. Amphibious Tractors (AMTRACs) and Amphibious Tanks. AMTRACs were built in large quantities and used both in the Pacific by US Marines with good success as well as in Europe during major river crossings such as the Allied crossing of the Rhine. An AMTRAC is a amphibious tracked vehicle that offers soldiers protection, and depending on model, firepower when conducting landings.

View attachment 408177

For heavier armor and firepower, amphibious tanks were developed. The allies used quite a lot of the Duplex Drive Shermans during D-Day. The idea was that the tanks would swim to the beach, then drive on to assault the German fortifications. The Sherman DD itself had some design problems, as it was designed for only 30cm high waves… which aren't exactly rare at sea. Many of them were also unloaded from their landing ships much too far out and sunk in the waves. Some beaches had good results, but for example Omaha beach was a disaster where most of them were lost. The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

View attachment 408178


These things combined means that you can design divisions to punch through heavily defended landing sites. Quite useful late game! These divisions are also great for when the enemy has fortified across a large river. On the flip side they are quite expensive to make, less fuel efficient and a little slower for what you get so you should have some plan for them before investing. Amphibious vehicle battalions also use your special forces limit, just like marines.

View attachment 408179


Man the Guns comes with 10 unique 3d models for the amphibious tanks:
View attachment 408182
View attachment 408183
View attachment 408184
View attachment 408185

The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

View attachment 408180
View attachment 408181

Research Changes
We are changing up some things when it comes to technologies as well. Because we have been steadily adding more, and are adding a bunch more with Man the Guns, we will be adjusting the base research speed to be faster. Probably something like +10%, but we haven’t locked that down yet.

We are also changing how the formula works for calculating how long it takes to research things. Instead of a research bonus lowering the cost of the research, bonuses now affect the speed of research. This means that an old -50% cost modifier is roughly the same as a +100% speed modifier now. I say roughly because speed modifiers stack a lot better and in less odd ways when there are many of them. This essentially means that you can no longer get instant techs by stacking various modifiers, just really fast research.

We have also changed how ahead of time works and the Ahead of Time Bonuses from focuses etc. no longer give you a percentage off, but a number of years off. This is important because it makes certain tech rush strategies where you simply bypass much of the tree by chaining ahead of time bonuses not work. We feel that these things will make things play a lot saner, and stop ahead of time researching to be banned in some MP groups ;)
View attachment 408187

The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
View attachment 408188

That’s it for this time! Do not miss that we are starting streaming of Man the Guns gameplay today, so tune in to see the new USA tree at 16:00 CET at https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive

Damn. No dogs driving tanks. Maybe at some point in the future then.