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HOI4 Dev Diary - Chain of Command

Hi everyone and welcome back to regular dev diaries. This and upcoming diaries will be covering stuff happening in the 1.5 "Cornflakes" update as well as the unannounced expansion that will come out together with it. One of the main focuses of those can be summarized as "making players care more about armies, leaders and troops" (our DLCs tend to have 1-3 main focuses or missions). The first feature that touches on this, and the topic of today's dev diary is adding a military chain of command to the game.

After Hearts of Iron III, where something like organizing the soviet chain of command could take about an hour of the players time we decided that we wanted something that was a lot less effort to work with for HOI4. We basically settled on a flat level with field marshals with no restriction on commanded divisions, and generals with a limit on division count but with a different set of traits. Over time we felt that we lost a bit too much of the WW2 military flavor with this abstraction, so we started thinking about how to do it in a more interesting way.

Pasted image at 2017_09_13 02_48 PM.jpg

What we have done now for 1.5 is that field marshals are now leading an Army Group, which is a certain number of Armies (what we had before) led by Generals. There are then places in theaters as before. Theaters are like before just a geographical organizational tool for the player and don't have a commander or the like to keep them as flexible as possible. This means that we have a Theaters->Army Groups->Armies->Divisions structure now.
While the Generals still come with a soft cap for how many divisions they can efficiently command, the field marshals will now have a number of armies they can efficiently command.

I also want to make sure to point out that this is still very early on in development, so stuff is very likely to change, and some stuff aren't completely working as it should yet. So we are showing you this in progress rather than showing a completely finished feature, and as always any numbers you see are extremely subject to change ;) Also I very sneekily hid the topbar for now ;)
upload_2017-9-13_15-27-6.png


When it comes to controlling your troops the new system introduces some changes to the battle planner. You can either do a plan for each army in the army group, or have a central plan for the whole Army Group where each army has a part of the frontline assigned as its responsibility. You can also do a mix, in which case an Army will finish its plan and then fall back to executing the Army Group's plan. We are still iteration on this stuff though but I figured you all wanted to know how it would work in practice.

upload_2017-9-13_15-26-30.png


Something that does not really come across in the images is that we are working on ways to streamline the process for setting up fronts using the new army groups. This should make at least the basic cases feel smooth to set up, even with one more command level and more armies without a ton of extra clicking.

upload_2017-9-13_15-23-51.png


The sharp eyed reader will also notice that we have removed the skill level for generals. This is now replaced with separate skills of different kinds. Attack, Defense, Planning and Logistics. Attack and Defense do what you expect while Planning improves planning speed and Logistics lowers supply consumption. Field marshal stats apply together with army general stats at a reduced capacity, so you will always want to have a chain of command for best efficiency.

The chain of command feature is going to be part of the free update, although there is some cool DLC features that tie into it we will be revealing in later diaries. Also expect to read more details about the system itself like how things in combat are affected etc.

See you next week when we will be taking a look at national unity...
 
@podcat I think there needs to be a new level of General that can control more than 24 units. Previously FMs could control as many units as you had, no cap whatsoever; but now they can't control anything.

So how do you imagine the Soviet front is going to be set up? Even the AI has a tendency to have around 500 units by the time Barbarossa is around the corner, if not more.

I can't imagine trying to organise 20 or 30 generals and 20 or 30 separate battle fronts.

This looks promising otherwise :)
 
@podcat I think there needs to be a new level of General that can control more than 24 units. Previously FMs could control as many units as you had, no cap whatsoever; but now they can't control anything.

So how do you imagine the Soviet front is going to be set up? Even the AI has a tendency to have around 500 units by the time Barbarossa is around the corner, if not more.

I can't imagine trying to organise 20 or 30 generals and 20 or 30 separate battle fronts.

This looks promising otherwise :)

500 divisions / 24 divisions per general = 21 leading generals.

Each army group holds 6 generals.

21 / 6 = 3.5 Army Groups.

You can draw battleline/frontline for each army group instead of each army. Army group = 144 divisions.
 
Hi everyone and welcome back to regular dev diaries. This and upcoming diaries will be covering stuff happening in the 1.5 "Cornflakes" update as well as the unannounced expansion that will come out together with it. One of the main focuses of those can be summarized as "making players care more about armies, leaders and troops" (our DLCs tend to have 1-3 main focuses or missions). The first feature that touches on this, and the topic of today's dev diary is adding a military chain of command to the game.

After Hearts of Iron III, where something like organizing the soviet chain of command could take about an hour of the players time we decided that we wanted something that was a lot less effort to work with for HOI4. We basically settled on a flat level with field marshals with no restriction on commanded divisions, and generals with a limit on division count but with a different set of traits. Over time we felt that we lost a bit too much of the WW2 military flavor with this abstraction, so we started thinking about how to do it in a more interesting way.

View attachment 298539
What we have done now for 1.5 is that field marshals are now leading an Army Group, which is a certain number of Armies (what we had before) led by Generals. There are then places in theaters as before. Theaters are like before just a geographical organizational tool for the player and don't have a commander or the like to keep them as flexible as possible. This means that we have a Theaters->Army Groups->Armies->Divisions structure now.
While the Generals still come with a soft cap for how many divisions they can efficiently command, the field marshals will now have a number of armies they can efficiently command.

I also want to make sure to point out that this is still very early on in development, so stuff is very likely to change, and some stuff aren't completely working as it should yet. So we are showing you this in progress rather than showing a completely finished feature, and as always any numbers you see are extremely subject to change ;) Also I very sneekily hid the topbar for now ;)
View attachment 298543

When it comes to controlling your troops the new system introduces some changes to the battle planner. You can either do a plan for each army in the army group, or have a central plan for the whole Army Group where each army has a part of the frontline assigned as its responsibility. You can also do a mix, in which case an Army will finish its plan and then fall back to executing the Army Group's plan. We are still iteration on this stuff though but I figured you all wanted to know how it would work in practice.

View attachment 298541

Something that does not really come across in the images is that we are working on ways to streamline the process for setting up fronts using the new army groups. This should make at least the basic cases feel smooth to set up, even with one more command level and more armies without a ton of extra clicking.

View attachment 298540

The sharp eyed reader will also notice that we have removed the skill level for generals. This is now replaced with separate skills of different kinds. Attack, Defense, Planning and Logistics. Attack and Defense do what you expect while Planning improves planning speed and Logistics lowers supply consumption. Field marshal stats apply together with army general stats at a reduced capacity, so you will always want to have a chain of command for best efficiency.

The chain of command feature is going to be part of the free update, although there is some cool DLC features that tie into it we will be revealing in later diaries. Also expect to read more details about the system itself like how things in combat are affected etc.

See you next week when we will be taking a look at national unity...
So no skill now :( How will HOI now represent different skills of a commander and for me the only option would make gaining new traits super hard and give more traits to good generlas this way it will be harder to get good generals and a good generla would gain more value . Also will we ever get even more traits and some with negative effects ? That wouldhelp as some generals were incompetent ( same thing with minister and leaders ) but for now everything gives a bonus which seems weird .
 
500 divisions / 24 divisions per general = 21 leading generals.

Each army group holds 6 generals.

21 / 6 = 3.5 Army Groups.

You can draw battleline/frontline for each army group instead of each army. Army group = 144 divisions.

500 Divisions was just an example; a ballpark figure. A player can easily get more than that, especially if they're playing Germany or Soviets and I've played many Multiplayer games where even Italy was rocking with 300+, Japan with 400+ and one Soviet player had a ~1000 units.

But to address my own example and your calculations, even 21 Generals is a huge difference from how a lot of people play, which is to have most of their units under an FM.

I'm not advocating for a Hoi3 system, I quite like this new simpler style, but Hoi2 had commanders who could control a different amount of units, without a hierarchy system to go along with it.

So I suggest we have FMs that do exactly what this diary describes. But Generals are split into 2 types, where the higher controls e.g. 48 units. (Lieutenant General controls 24, General controls 48)

This is to compensate for the fact that previously an FM that could control an unlimited number of units.
 
So no skill now :( How will HOI now represent different skills of a commander and for me the only option would make gaining new traits super hard and give more traits to good generlas this way it will be harder to get good generals and a good generla would gain more value . Also will we ever get even more traits and some with negative effects ? That wouldhelp as some generals were incompetent ( same thing with minister and leaders ) but for now everything gives a bonus which seems weird .
Skill still exists... it's just been broken up into offensive, defensive, planning, and logistical skill.
 
Wonderful! I'm looking very forward to this when it gets implemented.
 
To those asking about corps level of command, you can just use a general with a small number of divisions. I do this all the time already as it makes micro of mobile formations more convenient.
 
Sounds good so far. But do I Understand it right that you plan to remove the Expirience from the Leaders? not a good idea. At least form my poitn of view. Can the Field Marshals command their onw units or only the Generals under them? And Finaly... You change the Chain of command... at least a little bit... But can modders by that Change add additional levels in the hierarchy?
 
Does an army group need to have the armies it contains be near each other? That is, could I put two armies in the same group, then order one army to fight in France, and send the other off to China, and still retain the bonuses and such?

There will be limitiations about range, but we havent implemented a solution as of yet. We'll talk about it when we have the followup diary with more details in the future

@podcat

To be clear, the upcoming release is going to be a proper expansion with several new features, not a country pack?

yes
 
A 2 level chain of command oob. Interesting. I will reserve judgement until we see how it is implemented and whether it addresses the expanding and over-lapping front line issue.
 
Remember EU 4 dlcs, first 2 was important to only a few countries (or goverment types) or less important things.After that, they relased art of war- first major dlc. So i think that ''art of war'' to Hearts of iron 4 is coming !
 
Sounds good so far. But do I Understand it right that you plan to remove the Expirience from the Leaders? not a good idea. At least form my poitn of view. Can the Field Marshals command their onw units or only the Generals under them? And Finaly... You change the Chain of command... at least a little bit... But can modders by that Change add additional levels in the hierarchy?
They've said generals/field marshals can gain skill.
Edit: Although I would like to here how they gain logistics and planning skill.