HOI4 Dev Diary - Collaboration, Compliance and Coups

[Praetori]

Collaboration governments will mirror your map color as well to show how closely aligned they are.

I know it's a WIP but the below part is outright confusing GUI-wise.

The first one is also a bit ambiguous.
Can not declare wars (does that mean they can declare wars or not, double negation with the ).
Should probably be:
Can declare wars
or possibly
✔ Can not declare wars

I would advice to keep to one typ of expression in all elements (Like "/✔Can",.... and avoid "/✔Can not" (since the latter leads to possible double negations) or at least avoid mixing them, and that goes for all the tooltips and GUI elements of the game).

Truth to be told the GUI in general is full of these little confusing expressions which while not a problem for experienced players do cause some issues for newcomers and could probably need some love and attention in future dev-cycles.
Tooltips are awesome but only if they're actually accurate.

 

[Flight_of_Icarus]

I have an idea, can you orchaestrate independence movements or make collaborator governments for countries that have cores in an area, but are controlled by another country? Maybe increase independence desire for puppets that already exist? Kind of like the Germans trying to encourage independence movements in Arabia and India?

Manchukuo in particular should be weaker to subversive activity than most, because they're an artificial state and rife with "banditry" and collaborators.

 

[Reman]

Wait, so now we'll only get 10% of the factories and resources from occupied areas under the player's direct control? And even this only occurs after a long process of increasing compliance? That's a rather massive change from the current system where you can get 100% of everything instantly. Sure, it might be more realistic for a Fascist Germany game, but have you considered the balance in regards to non-historical games (e.g. the ones you're releasing tons of focus trees and achievements for)?

On the other hand, some of these features look very good. Allowing for at least 10% manpower is much closer to historical reality and will make for better gameplay in a lot of instances. The collaborationist governments also look good from the perspective of peace conferences. I'll wait to pass judgement until I see them in action, but I'm expecting good things.

 

[Chaplain]

This DLC is an obvious setup for a Cold War DLC (or separate game, Like the cancelled EvW from HOI3), and that's a good thing!

 

[kaguravitro]

So to make the coup fist you have to manually boost ideology as is now (pp needed) or will be a operation to do that too? I remember reading propaganda in spy tab or in wrong?

 

[jckiller97]

I certainly hope that the compliance mechanic can also be extended to countries that do not yet exist but that can later exist. Like for example the states of the Soviet Union such as Ucraine and so on. Because I'd like to set up collaborationist governments with the states that I "free" from the Soviet Union. There was a lot of initial support for the Germans when they reached Ucraine in the early stages of the eastern front, and well, I think the Brest-Litovsk Treaty also had in mind creating a series to governments, in the west of the Russian empire, that were meant to also be loyal to Germany.

On the other hand, I like the idea of the remaining planes and navies switching hands instead of being lost, because, when the civil war in Germany starts, Germany's navy ends up crippled because of the losses, as well as it does become difficult to recover part of the air force.

But a question I have is, how will this last mentioned mechanic impact wars among two nations? Like, for example, if Qing china invaded Japan, would they keep all of their fleets?
This also poses an interesting question if Germany invaded the UK before the US joins the war, if the UK gave up all their navy to the Germans, that would be a huge boost for them.

 

[Captured Joe]

The puppet is part of the core resistance system, but doing operations and such to speed things up is part of the dlc as that needs spies.

Good to hear.

 

[Delpheus]

As they showed in the previous DDs there is both passive defence that you can improve & Counter Intelligence operations to defend yourself.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...i4-dev-diary-the-intelligence-agency.1270326/

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...i4-dev-diary-operatives-and-missions.1273741/

There is nothing about actual counter intelligence or defense. You can't do anything to actively discover and counter enemy actions. You can't do anything to protect sensitive information. If the enemy wants your nukes, the door is open to anyone and everyone...you cannot even do a passive thing like declare nukes top secret information.

 

[MarKarev]

How will this tie with the German Reichkommissariat focus?

 

[Flight_of_Icarus]

One very important question about coups is: Will the civil war AI work properly and actually do *something* when you trigger a civil war in a foreign country?
I had this problem with the Trotzky Soviet Union, where I wanted to have civil wars everywhere, but even when the communist side has superior numbers, they would lose because none of their troops actually do *anything* they just stand there doing nothing, waiting for the enemy to conquer them.

There was a workaround you could do for that simply by restarting the game and having the AI kick in again, although I really wish it would get a proper fix.

 

[WilliamTheIII]

Are normal puppets able to be converted to collaborative governments? This mainly comes to mind from the Romania and Hungary puppet focus through the German tree.

 

[Delpheus]

its flavor text. altho some of these "phases" can add to the overall costs. For example if the only way to infiltrate is through the air due to the political and geographical situation the cost will be increased with transport planes



Defense is mostly passive because we need to keep the overall pressure on player attention down. You defend by passive upgrades and assigning operatives to defense. We have tried to keep operations often depending on something else so saboutage and such dont really work without resistance so as a defender you can make sure to keep on top of that and stability as ways of defending. Passive defense has some perks tho as you will capture and interrogate enemy agents and thus gain intel on them in return

That's like saying...
You can use aircraft, but not anti-air.
You can use tanks, but not anti-tank.
You can use submarines, but not depth charges.

So we're just supposed to allow whatever the enemies want to do to us to happen, and there is nothing we can choose to do about it? We just have to hope a passive system takes care of it? We are really supposed just sit and wait and do nothing while someone is planning something with massive consequences to our country? We literally can't do anything to crack down on them and stop them?

Capturing enemy agent and interrogation for information on the enemy is NOT what I mean and that is NOT a form of effective defense, getting Intel on them in return is not the same as stopping them from getting Intel at all.

The idea of putting a system in place that is purely offensive with no defensive is pure insanity and very poor game design. There must always be something a player can do to REACT. Not just sit there and hope your fishing pole catches something. That's just stupid.

 

[kaguravitro]

the complasience bonus comes from target country complete, but every state have a process of complacinece.
it works in ocuped country or state by state? Could have factories from a state with bonus but dont have the bonus in others or run a average value and affect all factories?

 

[Delpheus]

"Collective counterintelligence is gaining information about an opponent's intelligence collection capabilities whose aim is at an entity.

Defensive counterintelligence is thwarting efforts by hostile intelligence services to penetrate the service.

Offensive counterintelligence is having identified an opponent's efforts against the system, trying to manipulate these attacks by either "turning" the opponent's agents into double agents or feeding them false information to report."

Notice how there is such a thing as offensive counter-intelligence.

 

[paranoidsteve]

its flavor text. altho some of these "phases" can add to the overall costs. For example if the only way to infiltrate is through the air due to the political and geographical situation the cost will be increased with transport planes

. Does this mean that transport aircraft will get an increase to their ranges? They certainly need it.

 

[NilsFabian]

question: why should I take the road to build up a Collaboration Government instead of just let a country "free" as a puppet? where are the advantages to the puppet-system?

As far as I know during wartime you can't puppet a state. It will stay occupied by you.
Today you can, as fascist germany use decisions to set up Reichskommissariats. My bet is, that this decisions will be gone with the new update.

 

[Conduit_Fetch]

This all looks really good, but this diary felt sort of short and left me with a few questions:

1. What exactly happens to the original government if a collaboration gov is established during a war, if this can even be done? For example, when Germany conquers northern France, can they make a collaboration gov there while the war is ongoing? If so, how does this work with Free France?
2. If I establish a collaboration gov, what happens to states that I have claims or cores on? Once again using France as an example, if I take the focus to integrate Alsace Lorraine and then proceed to establish a collaboration gov, will I keep that state? Same question pertaining to Danzig and Poland?
3. If I conquer a country, say France. Once the war is over and Germany has won and now controls France and its colonies, and I raise enough compliance to establish a collaboration gov, what happens to the colonies? I assume the collaboration gov only controls core states, and thus the colonies will still be under your control. Any clarification on this?
4. As mentioned before, if you do have non core colonies under your control that have cores of countries that don't exist (say Vietnam) and you raise compliance high enough, can you establish a colonial collaboration gov?

 

[dgarkn]

This all looks really good, but this diary felt sort of short and left me with a few questions:

1. What exactly happens to the original government if a collaboration gov is established during a war, if this can even be done? For example, when Germany conquers northern France, can they make a collaboration gov there while the war is ongoing? If so, how does this work with Free France?
2. If I establish a collaboration gov, what happens to states that I have claims or cores on? Once again using France as an example, if I take the focus to integrate Alsace Lorraine and then proceed to establish a collaboration gov, will I keep that state? Same question pertaining to Danzig and Poland?
3. If I conquer a country, say France. Once the war is over and Germany has won and now controls France and its colonies, and I raise enough compliance to establish a collaboration gov, what happens to the colonies? I assume the collaboration gov only controls core states, and thus the colonies will still be under your control.
4. As mentioned before, if you do have non core colonies under your control that have cores of countries that don't exist (say Vietnam) and you raise compliance high enough, can you establish a colonial collaboration gov?

2 answer- Yes you will only owner Alsace after focus.

 

[snegovick]

Does it mean that occupied country (for example, Finland occupied by SU) now cannot be made Puppet and that instantly erasing all resistance? If that's true, it's a big step forward in realism.

 

[xtfoster]

So, once you set up a collaborationists, who gets the nations cores? The former gov or the collaborationist?

My guess...the Collaboration Government, since it doesn't form until the legitimate government becomes a Government in Exile (i.e., capitulation).