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HoI4 Dev Diary - France Rework

Bonjour! Today we will be talking about the upcoming rework of the French focus tree. At this point in development, not all the art is in, so some of the things you’ll see are still work in progress.

We are well aware that the France Focus Tree currently in the game is perhaps not the worst of the remaining vanilla trees, but we believe that reworking France allows us to better integrate some of the new features coming in the upcoming DLC. For that reason we have decided to split “the French Experience” (™ pending) across three weeks. Today we cover the base tree, next week we will be looking at the reowrk of the resistance and occupation system, and in two weeks we return to take a look at Free France and Vichy.

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While the basic French Focus Tree was good, we wanted to improve on it a bit. Specifically, a France that survived past about 1941 would find itself entirely out of focuses, so the new focus tree would have to be deeper. In addition, we wanted to have a more accurate representation of the many issues that impacted French policy-making in the period, and to have decisions you make come back to haunt you (“Short-term solutions cause long-term problems”).

We also wanted to give proper representation to the unusual state of affairs that existed between the Vichy government and the Fighting French under de Gaulle, but you’ll have to wait for a bit longer to see just what we have in store for them.

The French tree as it is currently in the game represents fairly well what has become the unofficial focus tree design philosophy: Separate branches for industry, the armed forces, politics and alternate ideologies. So the base structure should still look familiar.

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The Industry branch has been expanded by a system that I, in all humility, consider to be pretty clever: the “Invest in…” focuses give you building slots in a number of states in the area, with later focuses adding factories into each of the states previously invested in. That means the longer you wait in pulling the trigger on the Colonial/Civilian/Military Industry focuses, the bigger the payoff - but it comes later in the game. If you take all the investment focuses, you can get a whopping 18 civilian factories and 14 military factories in just three focuses (numbers are, of course, absolutely, 100%, final and won’t ever be changed for any reason).

In the political sphere, we decided not to introduce a fully new gameplay mechanic for France when we already have a perfectly functional stability and war support system that works fairly well in representing the internal politics of the Third Republic. To put it simply, you will have to tread a narrow line between raising your stability by lowering your war support and raising your war support by lowering your stability. Should your stability drop below 25% for too long, a civil war breaks out. To make matters worse, you have to contend with far-right and far-left groups taking to the streets in anger if you make decisions that they disagree with, potentially lowering your stability even further. You can ban these groups - at a stability penalty depending on their relative popularity, which might be difficult to recover from.

The threat of civil war is removed when you go to war with another country, and the political violence stops if you can get stability above 70% but it returns if stability drops below 50% without political action being taken to remove the causes.

And if all that wasn’t enough, France suffers from rather significant issues with manpower. The gruelling losses of the Great War had demographic effects down the line - fewer Frenchmen meaning fewer children being born, meaning fewer men reaching military age some 20 years after the war ended. This is represented by a national spirit reducing your recruitable population factor. Simply increasing your recruitment laws won’t save you, since you are now pulling workers away from their workbenches, causing a severe production penalty. You will have different ways of dealing with this issue, but expanding the citizenship and encouraging immigration might not be welcomed by everyone (the timescale of the game means you can’t make up the shortfall through new family policies).

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In better news, France will have a slightly bigger industrial base to play with to balance out these factors. The new diplomacy branch will also allow you to not just invite countries to the Little Entente, but to also invest in them and grant them some military factories, and later invite Britain and the Commonwealth to join your faction. It also allows you to exchange guarantees with the Soviets, or try to form a common faction with Italy. The so-called Stresa Front was already pretty much over and done in 1936, due to differences in opinion between Britain, France and Italy about the Italian-Ethopian border (mostly because Italy believed it shouldn’t exist). To revive that alliance, you’ll have to make some concessions and hand over some territory to Italy. If you can convince Britain to back you, it will make Italy even more likely to join you.

All ideologies get the option to intervene in the Spanish Civil War, but as you might expect for such a historically contentious topic, it comes with a stability penalty, which, in the worst case, can tip you over the edge into your own civil war.

Should you, for reasons passing understanding, not want to experience the historically accurate French experience, we have greatly deepened the alt-history focus trees. Starting with the formation of the Popular Front under Leon Blum (no relation), you can choose to invite the communists to the government (instead of simply having them tolerate you). From there you go on to implement more of the communist agenda, such as legal equality for women, economic centralization and propaganda to prepare the population for the inevitable revolution (we are, after all, talking about France). After you have forced the issue by essentially breaking up the temporary alliance with more moderate forces and having communists take power directly.

After the revolution you essentially have three choices: You can either dial back the revolutionary vigor and try to reconcile with the rest of the country to pursue a broad-front approach to fighting fascism, or you can double down and decide to spread the revolution by any means necessary. Some of the stuff in this tree dips into some new mechanics which aren’t quite ready yet.

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On the other side of the tree, you can either opt for a more conservative approach in the 1936 parliamentary elections, making Pierre Laval the Prime Minister of France. Much like with the Popular Front, you can stay democratic and reform the country with a more market-liberal approach, or you can forge an alliance with the far-right elements and topple the republican government to start the “National Regeneration”, imagined as a less radical version of the National Revolution attempted by the Vichy government. Once the disgustingly republican form of government is removed, you can choose between two main branches.

One, under Francois de la Rocque, has you form a Latin Entente with Spain, Portugal and Italy and later split up Africa into zones of control, with France taking most of the west and Italy taking the east of the continent. With de la Rocque representing a more independent version of an authoritarian France (whether or not he was a bona-fide fascist can certainly be debated, that he has the kind of military background and authoritarian mindset that other fascists had is, I believe, less controversial), the other branch is lead by Jacques Doriot, and entails coming to an understanding with fascist Germany. After agreeing to split the low countries between you and joining the axis, you can put some pressure on Belgium. You can either anschluss Wallonia or force the entirety of Belgium to become your puppet. Once this is accomplished, you remind them that puppets don’t get to have colonial territories right next to their master’s. Beyond this, you mostly tag along with the German strategy by opening up a second front in North Africa.

Finally, there are the Monarchists. French monarchism at the time was closely related to the political far-right (being anti-republican made the idea of a monarchy a logical rallying point), so it makes sense that they spin off from the reactionary branch. The idea behind this branch is that the continued political turmoil in the Republic, represented by continuously low stability (you have to be below 35% stability to take the first focus) has so disillusioned people that the time has come for a return to the kind of stable leadership a monarch provides. As such, you don’t immediately select a king - you first create the groundwork for a return to the monarchy by repealing the Law of Exile (which banned any pretender to the throne, or their heir, from setting foot on French soil) before picking one of three candidates (because having only one pretender is for the Boche!).

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The Orleanist candidate was perhaps the most moderate of the pretenders, ruling largely along the lines of a constitutional monarchy. As such, you focus heavily on social welfare and containing fascism - ironically, one of the first acts is to inform the arch-reactionary Action Francaise that they have served their purpose and will now no longer be needed. On the other end, the Bonapartist candidate has an ambitious program of reshuffling the borders of Europe and restore the family name. In the middle between the two are the Legitimists, which is a faction that split from the Orleanists in 1830 and which maintains that the Orleanist heir is not, in fact, the legitimate pretender to the throne. Through a number of dynastic events, the legitimate pretender to the throne of France, according to the Legitimists, is none other than the previously deposed King of Spain. As such, the obvious goal is to restore both his crowns to him, and potentially unite the two realms of France and Spain into a double monarchy (because that worked out so well for Austria-Hungary and Denmark-Norway).

Since the current French focus tree already has some (short) alternate ideology branches, these old branches will still be present if you don’t have the DLC, and replace the branches starting with “Invite Communist Ministers” and “Utilize the Leagues”, respectively.

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Finally, we also spent some time making sure France has the full lineup of design companies and some options in terms of naval designers.

That’s all for today. Next week we will talk about the rework of the Resistance and Occupation system coming with 1.8!
 
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This is interesting. I've read a few books on the Nationalist Regime and Franco but never saw mention of that. I believe it, though. This sounds exactly like the kind of bluff Franco would make to intimidate the Carlists and supporters of Alfonso into doing what he wanted. That was the main reason he ensured nobody was on the throne until he was a corpse. He often threatened to proclaim a republic when particular monarchists annoyed him enough. He could make various promises and threats to curry favors without following through on anything.

From what little details I was able to scrounge up on the offer, Franco approached Otto in 1955 in an entirely unofficial capacity, during which the subject of the general restoration of the monarchy was brought up (lending a lot of credence to the idea it was just a bluff), and Otto immediately made it apparent that he did not want to be king as he saw it as stealing the kingdom away from its rightful heir something something 1701.
 
I have to voice a very serious concern upon one sentence. The Orleanist was the most moderate….
This is indeed rather a dubious statement, since none of the pretenders can be considered to have been particularly moderate in being ready to support the violent overthrow of the French Republic, but that is sort of stated in the diary too.

There was no Legitimist pretender in 1940, the family had died off. The Bonapartist pretender fought in the Resistance. (Some purists backed the Spanish king, on the ground that he was the heir of the grandson of Louis XIV, but it was beyond minority)
The Legitimist pretender by the order of succession of the house of Bourbon was the former king of Spain, as the senior member of the dynasty. That a minority supported him doesn't change that he was the pretender.

No returning Elsaß-Lothringen to Germany?
Doesn't mean Germany shouldn't be able to negotiate for/demand it regardless of France's ideology and allegiance, especially after victory in the East.
That would be a part of a German focus three, not a French one.
 
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That would be a part of a German focus three, not a French one.

That's irrelevant. I'm asking if it would be a thing, which I suspect it isn't but it probably should be. Obviously France should get a choice to decline at the cost of likely war, regardless of its ideology.
 
First of all, in proportion, French losses were slightly higher than German ones, I'll provide figures if needed. But the losses are the more meaningful point. France was already had the oldest population in the world in 1914 and the population growth already was heavily dependent on immigration, the Great War made things worse young men were killed or wounded en masse and could not have children. Their was a slight "boom" after the war but it was very limited. France was also more touched than Germany by over-mortality (not direct war casualties, neither civil or military, but an increase of the "natural" mortality rate due to poor living conditions, especially in occupied northern France) over the course of the War.

Despite approx. 1.5 million Alsciens-Lorrains being French again and a massive immigration before the early thirties crisis, (roughly 6% of the total French population in 1931), the total population was roughly the same in 1940 than it was in 1914. A population with less young men to bear arms and immigrants that could not be mobilized as they were not French citizens (though many joined the army, the Légion Etrangère or the résistance movements).

Of course Germany was faced similar troubles, especially with the consequences of the Blocus late WWI, but with a younger population making more children, Germany could face those problems and enter the war with a more important and much more younger population.

I'm sorry if I'm not clear, demographics are not the easiest matter and I'm not used to discuss them in English.

It makes sense.

I still think it doesn't need a special mechanic in a grand strategy game. At most, a modifier to the first recruitment laws (like volunteers only) to provide less manpower, because when you are in total mobilization, age of population is not important.

At least i wouldn't be hard to edit this modifier :D.
 
The French Focus Tree also needs these:

  1. Fortification focus branch. Because of French military planning, forts and trenches played a huge role in their planning. Having a branch dedicated to fortifying the Ardennes, Belgian border, Italian Border, Spanish border, coastlines, African colonies, Asian colonies, and Pacific colonies is appropriate. This is before we factor in fortifying lands that are claimed: The Rhine, western Switzerland, Nararre, Catalonia, or Eastern Canada.
    • When fortifying, there should be a decision for each region whether to fortify the length of the border with low-level forts, or to fortify key areas (cities, ports, and Victory points) with higher-level forts.
    Fortification Focus.png
  1. Land Claims: Each land claim should have dual ideologies able to claim it, rather than being restricted to just one. The Legitimists would want to take Navarre from Spain, but the Bonapartists would want to take Catalonia, for example. Same with Quebec vs Switzerland. Belgium and the lands west of the Rhine would be claimed by Fascists, communists, and all monarchists.
  • I would also recommend having a mutually exclusive split between gaining cores on Algeria/North Africa versus their Vietnam/Pacific Island states.
  • France could cut a deal with America to divide Canada east/west if America has researched "War Plan Crimson"
Having these two be separate branches from the main lines would make decisions more flexible, and not mandate that a territory be conquered before progressing militarily/politically.
 
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Is this modifier justified by "gruelling losses of the great war"? Currently, France have one ( "winner of the great war" or something like that) and it is based, like UK's one, on pacifism. And I have no problem with the current modifier.

I quote myself :
"France and Germany suffered the sames losses in proportions of their total population during WWI. If the proportions are the same, why one should have an extra modifier due to the losses?"

sorry but you're wrong. The figures of casualties ares 1,8M for France and 2M for the 2nd Reich. But the 2nd Reich was much bigger than Germany, so the casualties comes from a 40M population for France and 66M for the 2nd reich.
That's a 3% death rate for 2nd reich and 4,5% death rate for France. So you can write that the rate of frenchmen killed was 50% higher than the germans.

Finally the main part of the fight took place in France, a big area (which before the war was one of the most populated) was devasted.

But honestly, I can't understant why France should get a mp malus : It already have a small population when you compare it to Germany. Some malus in war support and higher cost for mobilization law should be more accurate
 
I smell a Spain tree in our future. Also, I am really very excited about this France Rework, but I am a little disappointed that the USSR is not getting a new tree this update, as France has the best Vanilla tree and Russia the worst, the thought of waiting two years for a good Russian tree makes me sad. Therefore, if we are getting two tree reworks we will most certainly be getting an Italy rework. This makes me think this a Mediterranean themed expansion so I am assume we will get the aforementioned Spain tree and either Greece or Turkey, hopefully Greece as they actually took part in the War. Or knowing MtG we might get our new "Mexico," maybe Brazil.
 
the thought of waiting two years for a good Russian tree makes me sad.
Why? You've already waited three.

It's not like the Soviet Union should be considered a priority in a game like this, surely? :rolleyes:
 
It makes sense.

I still think it doesn't need a special mechanic in a grand strategy game. At most, a modifier to the first recruitment laws (like volunteers only) to provide less manpower, because when you are in total mobilization, age of population is not important.

It is important even then. Those who have not got any training cannot be sent to the frontline, they would just die. Young boys under military service age are mostly useless, if they are not sent to military training first. How about old men? Old officers are mostly useful: there are a lot of staff duties and such, where an old officer can replace a young one, to be sent to the front. The same with some senior NCOs. But for privates and junior NCOs: they need to be physically able to do their duties, that are mostly physically demanding. Old man, who is not fit to run, is not useful in a frontline company, but a burden for the others. They can do guard duty in homeland, but not go to the frontline. How about specialists? Old pilots are not fit for air combat. Old men in special forces? No, must be fit.

In the end of WWII the Germans called all men to serve and formed the Volksturm. In reality, those men who were fit to fight were fast transferred from Volksturm to Volksgrenadier units (part of the Heer, regular Army), leaving the remaining Volksturm useless.
 
sorry but you're wrong. The figures of casualties ares 1,8M for France and 2M for the 2nd Reich. But the 2nd Reich was much bigger than Germany, so the casualties comes from a 40M population for France and 66M for the 2nd reich.
That's a 3% death rate for 2nd reich and 4,5% death rate for France. So you can write that the rate of frenchmen killed was 50% higher than the germans.

Finally the main part of the fight took place in France, a big area (which before the war was one of the most populated) was devasted.

But honestly, I can't understant why France should get a mp malus : It already have a small population when you compare it to Germany. Some malus in war support and higher cost for mobilization law should be more accurate

I used wikipedia. Losses : 1,4 M military + 300K civilians for France and 2 M military + 427K civilians for Germany.

Total population for France : 1914 : 41,6 M ; 1938 : 41,5 M
Total poulation for Germany : 1910 : 64,9 M ; 1925 : 62,4 M

From this figures, it seems to be the same.

But I totally agree with your conclusion.
 
It is important even then. Those who have not got any training cannot be sent to the frontline, they would just die. Young boys under military service age are mostly useless, if they are not sent to military training first. How about old men? Old officers are mostly useful: there are a lot of staff duties and such, where an old officer can replace a young one, to be sent to the front. The same with some senior NCOs. But for privates and junior NCOs: they need to be physically able to do their duties, that are mostly physically demanding. Old man, who is not fit to run, is not useful in a frontline company, but a burden for the others. They can do guard duty in homeland, but not go to the frontline. How about specialists? Old pilots are not fit for air combat. Old men in special forces? No, must be fit.

In the end of WWII the Germans called all men to serve and formed the Volksturm. In reality, those men who were fit to fight were fast transferred from Volksturm to Volksgrenadier units (part of the Heer, regular Army), leaving the remaining Volksturm useless.
I agree with most of your post, but things are not such specific.
Volksturm was unefficient due to the lack of training and weapons much more than the physicall conditions of its members. Children lack of physical strenght but they are most of times excellent soldiers (that being so sad). Volksturm was useless in many situation but in other places like Kustrin defense wouldn't be possible without them.

The thing I can't understand is why you don't get economical penalties as soon as you pick limited conscription
 
I used wikipedia. Losses : 1,4 M military + 300K civilians for France and 2 M military + 427K civilians for Germany.

Total population for France : 1914 : 41,6 M ; 1938 : 41,5 M
Total poulation for Germany : 1910 : 64,9 M ; 1925 : 62,4 M

From this figures, it seems to be the same.

But I totally agree with your conclusion.

You can check this article (in french but graphics are understandable)
 
In the Napoleonic path, I find that the conquest of Sweden is lacking to get rid of Benardotte (who betrayed Napoleon) and allied with Denmark to put the continental blockade into practice (which the British prevented by destroying the Danish forts).

This x1000. There's no way a Napoleonic France would let that go. If the Napoleonic tree is going to be almost all wargoals (which it shouldn't be, especially considering the historic internal management changes when Bonapartes are in charge of France), it should at least have that one.
 
Beautiful stuff for the most part. I like the split of the Monarchist path, but I agree that there needs to be more foreign policy options for each. Bonapartist looks fun, but the other two just aren't very enticing with their limited options.

I also do agree that there could be another potential tag in West Germany - perhaps the Grand Duchy of Hesse and a new Westphalia/Confederation of the Rhine puppet? I just feel like if a Bonapartist France is dividing Germany, they don't want Prussia to be on their border at all. They would want to really split things up and deprive Prussia of many of its gains.
 
I used wikipedia. Losses : 1,4 M military + 300K civilians for France and 2 M military + 427K civilians for Germany.
Total population for France : 1914 : 41,6 M ; 1938 : 41,5 M
Total poulation for Germany : 1910 : 64,9 M ; 1925 : 62,4 M

From this figures, it seems to be the same.

From the same wikipedia (and I don't know how those data consider varying borders):
Deaths as %age of population
Germany: 3.39% to 4.32%
France: 4.29% to 4.39%

A 1 point difference is not a small one when we are discussing millions of human lives and deaths.

But again, even if the WWI losses were strictly equivalent, the proportion of men of military age was far less important in France than in Germany.
 
I also do agree that there could be another potential tag in West Germany - perhaps the Grand Duchy of Hesse and a new Westphalia/Confederation of the Rhine puppet?

Achievement Idea:
Trenton All Over Again: As a democratic United States, capitulate the Grand Duchy of Hesse. If you want to make the achievement extra difficult require it to be done in December.
 
Achievement Idea:
Trenton All Over Again: As a democratic United States, capitulate the Grand Duchy of Hesse. If you want to make the achievement extra difficult require it to be done in December.
I like it.

EDIT: @podcat here's some achievement gold if you add Hesse to fill out that extra long grey area with another state to carve out of Germany.