HOI4 Dev Diary - Fuel

[mattybe06]

I Like the addition of fuel it is needed to control the late game which is unplayable with the massive armies that get spammed! A couple of major concerns that i have not seen talked about yet but i did not read all 22 pages so I might have missed it either way here we go.

1. Is the AI going to know how to use the fuel system as in limiting or balancing its construction to not have all inefficient units?
2. Is the AI going to build silos in smart places and try to protect them in many games you will get to an AI capital and it will have 1 or no troops in it?
3. Are the silos going to have upgrades to protect themselves against bombing, Germany built many huge silos under ground in caves and under 3 to 4 feet on concrete to make stuff safer from bombs is this going to be a thing will be needed for smaller nations to be a thing or even Germany once it loose air control?
4. Fuel should be added to infantry to represent the fuel it would need such as supply trains and supply trucks that would require fuel this would also help control infantry spam!
5. Any thought about adding ammo also as a supply this would also be a nice way to control balance between air, navy, and land and was a large factor in the war?
5. The Supply system it self should have a fuel requirement as the line get longer and supplies travel further they require more fuel to function!
6 Any thought with adding coal to the game, which could be fuel for factories and shipyards and then with tech be turned into fuel thru synthetic refineries this would majorly represent Germany.

 

[aramsey3]

We need to be able to :
1. Stockpile all resources
2. Have Fleet Templates. Managing Fleet composition is time consuming and confusing. How about some preferred templates to maximize effectiveness. Like, the 4 carrier thing is a problem and I only found out by someone else's post. A way to produce the Fleet template would be great. Like in production saying produce x # of this template.
3. How about being able to blockade ports. Specific ports, or a country and then tell us how many Subs, etc. it will take for levels of effectiveness.
4. Need an easy way to change out carrier composition too. It is very cumbersome if you have obsolete planes or older models. Currently, you have to go thru every single carrier. It takes too much time.
5. How about Admirals to manage multiple fleets. Kind of like the Field Marshalls now.
6. And, of course I have many more.

 

[Cardus]

The Royal Navy switched to oil firing well before WWI. Germany was never in any danger of running out of coal, making it a largely useless ressource for them because they don't have to care about it. Neither does Japan (coal was one of the few things Japan was largely self-sufficient in). That means neither nation needs to trade for coal or care about conquering more coal. Neither do Britain, France or the US have to care about coal. Not sure about the Soviet union, but never heard that they were close to running out. Copper was a much more sought-after resource.

Not really true.
Coal was very important and it was the main source of electricity. Italy was short of it and could import only some coal by train through the Alps (at a much higher cost than by sea import). This was one of the main reasons the Italian war production was very low. Instead in WWI the Italian war production grew at a comparable rate as the USA production in WWII. The difference in WWI was that the country had free access to raw material (and primarily coal).

PS
If possible it would be good to have deposits for any kind of resource. This is what I repeatedly asked since HOI 2...

 

[Alex_brunius]

Not really true.
Coal was very important and it was the main source of electricity. Italy was short of it and could import only some coal by train through the Alps (at a much higher cost than by sea import). This was one of the main reasons the Italian war production was very low. Instead in WWI the Italian war production grew at a comparable rate as the USA production in WWII. The difference in WWI was that the country had free access to raw material (and primarily coal).

Was Italian coal transports by ship along the coast to Vichy France or Spain really hampered alot during WW2? I think that route should have been very safe at least until 1943 considering the threat from land based air and smaller coastal warships / subs / mines that Italy could ( and did ) use to punish any allied ships venturing near Axis shores ( like Malta ) from 1940-42.

 

[Sourlol]

What about Gold reserves??? Completely decisive factor in any warfare!

are they? In any war where the national warchest is up ended, surely the immediate threat of being annihilated is a more imporant factor. The ramifications of leveraging ones Gold Reserves wouldnt be felt until after the war--if you win--or never--if you lose.

 

[Fulmen]

What about Gold reserves??? Completely decisive factor in any warfare!

Did someone say gold reserves?

 

[braveshaolin]

I can barely play this game and now I'll have to juggle fuel?
Great! Looking forward to it! <3

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Did someone say gold reserves?

What game or mod is that from?

 

[Tepakko]

Oh the humanity. Hoi4 did an amazing job of having an ok supply system, which you didnt need to micromanage, or wonder about unless something went wrong (ie having your infastructure destroyed or trying to cross perilous terrain with too many troops). And now that old kraken is being awoken again with fuel... I really had hoped you finally would have left the age of "stockpile everything" behind.
Please tell me fuel will be a separate 9,99euro DLC so I can enjoy the awesome and much awaited Sea combat enhancement without having to wonder what else I soon need to stockpile. Like food, water, canteens, underpants, toothpicks and well, bullets i would think.

 

[grandad1982]

I can barely play this game and now I'll have to juggle fuel?
Great! Looking forward to it! <3

What aspect of it means you can barely play it? If you have problems/questions start a thread and ask for advice.

 

[Fulmen]

What game or mod is that from?

Arsenal of Democracy, with the CORE mod. But that event was also in vanilla HoI2 (and thus AoD), though I think CORE expanded it a bit.

Btw I'd use the much more beautiful E3 map (the one DH based its map on), but sadly CORE was never updated for it.

 

[safe-keeper]

Oh the humanity. Hoi4 did an amazing job of having an ok supply system, which you didnt need to micromanage, or wonder about unless something went wrong (ie having your infastructure destroyed or trying to cross perilous terrain with too many troops). And now that old kraken is being awoken again with fuel... I really had hoped you finally would have left the age of "stockpile everything" behind.
Please tell me fuel will be a separate 9,99euro DLC so I can enjoy the awesome and much awaited Sea combat enhancement without having to wonder what else I soon need to stockpile. Like food, water, canteens, underpants, toothpicks and well, bullets i would think.

I like the fuel system. I don't think I want a return to HOI3 stockpiles either, unless they implement some systems to prevent those massive 99999 unit stockpiles of HOI3, and prevent players from simply stockpiling everything from 1936 because they magically know WWII is going to happen.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Arsenal of Democracy, with the CORE mod. But that event was also in vanilla HoI2 (and thus AoD), though I think CORE expanded it a bit.

Btw I'd use the much more beautiful E3 map (the one DH based its map on), but sadly CORE was never updated for it.

You prefer that over Darkest Hour?

 

[kaguravitro]

AoD have some features better than DH, but the engine cant hold all calculation for AoD good for a better maps from vanilla hoi 2 map. i worked with all hoi 2 engines and maps version aviables and heavy modded all maps.

I dont agree the mony idea, i agree some features should be added but mony as hoi tradition way. They must have differ pay (real lend lease), armanment sell (not need to by between states). PBI units is better than money, inflation etc.

 

[mad_ahab]

Adding fuel to the fire that engulfs the world

That would be a great name for a DD

 

[Axe99]

Not really true.
Coal was very important and it was the main source of electricity. Italy was short of it and could import only some coal by train through the Alps (at a much higher cost than by sea import). This was one of the main reasons the Italian war production was very low. Instead in WWI the Italian war production grew at a comparable rate as the USA production in WWII. The difference in WWI was that the country had free access to raw material (and primarily coal).

PS
If possible it would be good to have deposits for any kind of resource. This is what I repeatedly asked since HOI 2...

Was Italian coal transports by ship along the coast to Vichy France or Spain really hampered alot during WW2? I think that route should have been very safe at least until 1943 considering the threat from land based air and smaller coastal warships / subs / mines that Italy could ( and did ) use to punish any allied ships venturing near Axis shores ( like Malta ) from 1940-42.

Coal (and coastal convoys) were both very important to Italy, and the RN was able to raid the Italian coastline (as well as subs/aircraft, they sent a relatively strong force to shell oil storage at Genoa in one raid early on, and bombarded the main port in Albania* at another). However, the net impact of RN raids on Italian coastal convoys was negligible, and from what I've read coastal convoys in northern Italy remained important and relatively effective until very close to the end of the war.

In terms of Italy's coal supply, pre-war the vast majority was shipped through the Straits of Gibraltar, and at the outbreak of war there were (iirc) difficulties, but longer-term Italy was able to replace its coal imports via sea with coal imports overland - note that the items from Spain mentioned below will be via coastal convoys in the Med:

• Italy used rail to get around the loss of coal imports by sea: "Italy, meanwhile, imported by rail 13.55 million tons of coal from the Reich, the greatest availability of energy in its history; more than 1.5 millions tons of iron, wood, and other items arrived from Spain nearly uncontested." (from "Struggle for the Middle Sea: The Great Navies at War in the Mediterranean Theater, 1940-1945" by Vincent P. O'Hara)

One thing to keep in mind though is that while the RN didn't effectively disrupt the coastal convoys historically, it was something that would have been tactically possible (the RN and RAF played merry havoc with German coastal convoys later in the war - air-dropped mines and air attack (again, iirc - a little ropey on this) being the key mechanisms, and both would have been possible in the Med as well, had the resources been available, but the RN's focus was instead on convoys to Africa).

Imo, the big thing here would be - what if Italy didn't have access to German (or British) coal? Everything's fine in historical mode, but there are plenty of alt-history scenarios that could play out in ahistorical mode where Italy's coal situation would be anything but assured.

* Can't remember the name off the top of my head - sorry Albania!

 

[Fulmen]

You prefer that over Darkest Hour?

Of course. To quote a recent post of mine:

Except DH was mechanically more or less the same as HoI2: DD. It had the same shit supply system where if you cut off the capital everything was OOS, it had no fuel, money was pretty useless (yes, you could spend it on decisions - still too abundant and useless), combat was still the same as Doomsday; quantity was always better than quality, economy was the same, etc.

If you want a truly mechanically superior version of HoI2, play Arsenal of Democracy. In many ways that game is still the best HoI to date. You can install the E3 map (the one DH's map was based on) on it as a mod. Though I'd recommend playing AoD with CORE2 (although it uses the old HoI2 map, unfortunately).

 

[parzifalus]

The Royal Navy switched to oil firing well before WWI. Germany was never in any danger of running out of coal, making it a largely useless ressource for them because they don't have to care about it. Neither does Japan (coal was one of the few things Japan was largely self-sufficient in). That means neither nation needs to trade for coal or care about conquering more coal. Neither do Britain, France or the US have to care about coal. Not sure about the Soviet union, but never heard that they were close to running out. Copper was a much more sought-after resource.

The current issue of World at War magazine has an entire article about the German coal industry during WW2. Didn't realise how the different types of coal affected industry vs synfuel production. Coal put huge strains on transportation infrastructure, and the draft meant replacement miners were <60% as efficient as the pre-war workers. Good check to see if draft and infrasttructure conditions are affecting industry appropriately.

 

[scroggin]

Oh the humanity. Hoi4 did an amazing job of having an ok supply system, which you didnt need to micromanage, or wonder about unless something went wrong (ie having your infastructure destroyed or trying to cross perilous terrain with too many troops). And now that old kraken is being awoken again with fuel... I really had hoped you finally would have left the age of "stockpile everything" behind.
Please tell me fuel will be a separate 9,99euro DLC so I can enjoy the awesome and much awaited Sea combat enhancement without having to wonder what else I soon need to stockpile. Like food, water, canteens, underpants, toothpicks and well, bullets i would think.

Im hoping for a fuel system that simulates production and use but not a HOI3 distribution system. That was aweful. All it needs is to use the current system of working out if they are in supply and assume in supply means in fuel

 

[safe-keeper]

Boi, I can't wait for someone to make a mod with all of these new updates that will make fuel shortage as chronic and crippling for the Axis Powers as it was in real life

BlackICE will probably have that covered. Along with 20 kinds of fuel, 583 models of fuel trucks, and the ability to customize the colour of your tankers, fuel drums, and oil refinery worker hats.