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HOI4 Dev Diary - Mexico

Welcome to Mexico, a country ravaged by internal tensions, corrupt politicians, rural rebellions and threatened by the looming shadow of her northern neighbour. In Man the Guns, you will get the chance to work through all these obstacles, reform the nation and turn them into a power strong enough to expand or involve themselves in WW2.

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The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
Mexico’s politics at this time were dominated by revolutionary generals who toppled the dictator Diaz and then squabbled amongst themselves, issuing their pronunciamiento (a justification for their attempt to seize power) and betraying one another ruthlessly. Three of the main figures from these caudillos (a word combining the role of warlord, patron, businessman and politician) were President Lázaro Cárdenas, President Plutarco Calles, and military strongman Saturnino Cedillo. The ruling clique gradually turned from coups and civil wars to less violent means of seeking power, but at the start of the game this transition is still taking place.

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Lázaro Cárdenas, president from 1934 to 1940, was a socialist who led the nationalisation of Mexican oil concessions, built up state financing of manufacturing industries, encouraged the collectivisation of peasant farms and their protection from landlords via Ejido militias, and is celebrated today for his role in modernising the nation. Historically he helped the transition of Mexico from military dictatorship to a stable and functioning democracy thanks to his ability to both compromise with moderate opposition and undermine domestic threats to the state from extremists.

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Plutarco Calles, president from 1924 to 1928 and “shadow president” for much of the reigns of his successors, was a divisive figure to say the least. He attempted to cement the state’s power over the Catholic Church in Mexico using brutal suppression of priests and their faithful, going as far as torturing and even crucifying dissidents. The Cristiada, a rebellion by rural farmers to oppose this forced secularisation, won little success in the field against Calles’ troops, hardened as they were by civil war and supported by modern artillery and bomber planes, but it did cause some concern inside the ruling clique over methods, ultimately leading to a compromise between church and state. Calles still clings to the power he has left, and you must either throw him out of the country or accept his role in the new Mexico.
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Saturnino Cedillo, governor of San Luis Potosí, was one of the last of the caudillos to threaten the Mexican state. A survivor, he absorbed remnants of the Cristero rebels into his private army and managed to maintain relative independence in his province which the central government sought to crush. Ultimately he rebelled against Cardenas’ incursions into his power base. Historically his rebellion was short lived as the Cardenas government successfully undercut his support and disarmed his paramilitary forces, killing him in the field within a few months. Cardenas suspected America and Britain of inciting Cedillo’s rebellion by promising support, in order to punish Mexico for seizing their oil concessions, but no such support ever arrived.

Economic Development
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Mexico is a major producer of oil at the game start and only stands to increase its role as an exporter as the conflagration grips the world and upsets the flow of trade around the globe. Historically Mexico’s nationalisation of the concessions granted by Cardenas’ predecessors (mostly to Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil of California) caused a backlash from Britain and America which served to isolate Mexico and almost pushed them into the arms of the Germans. In game, you must develop your oil if you wish to become a major international player, and on the way you will build up your infrastructure using either Cardenas’ path of socialism and import substitution, or his successor Avila’s preference, liberalisation and privatisation.

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As seen in the Dutch dev diary, HoI4 is getting a new mechanic relating to concessions of resources from one country to another, which transfers the contents of a state free of charge. This will make its appearance in Mexico in the form of oil concessions to Royal Dutch Shell and Standard Oil of California. Nationalising these assets was a goal of the Mexican revolutionaries from the outset, and became a source of friction between Mexico and the former owners (Britain and America respectively) once President Cardenas actually took steps towards nationalisation.

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Military Expansion
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Mexico begins in 1936 as a war-weary third rate power, wracked by internal tensions and the legacy of decades of civil war. This was not always the case, however. The armaments industry established by President Diaz prior to the instability was making many advances in weapons technology, aircraft production, and even experiments in tank development. The famous Mondragon rifle was one of the earliest pioneers in semi-automatic small arms. A more assertive Mexico would also likely reject reliance on Italian gunboats and American hand-me-down destroyers if she sought to contest the oceans.

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After building up factories and shipyards, you have a choice to make on both the army and naval branches of the tree.

A Mexico uninterested in fighting decisive battles might instead decide to focus on convoy raiding, whereas choosing the contest the surface against your rivals will require a powerful surface fleet. The two “finishers” on the naval tree reflect these differences.

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When it came to land battles during the various insurrections against the central government, Mexico utilised her infantry, cavalry and nascent airforce in a powerful combined arms force the rebels were unable to defeat, and you will likewise be able to modernise the different branches of the armed forces until deciding between conventional artillery or aerial support as the “finisher” on the army side of the tree.

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Diplomatic Relations
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Mexico is considered America’s “backyard”, an insulting and imperious attitude for the Yanquis to take but one the Mexican leadership must consider seriously before making their move. Taking independent action on the international stage, aligning towards one of America’s enemies, or threatening America’s economic interests would all be causes of concern for President Roosevelt, let alone his more expansionist domestic rivals. Mexico can gamble on her northern neighbour being too isolationist to intervene south, but if the gamble doesn’t pay off, there’ll be Hell to pay.

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Religion
The biggest divide in Mexican society at the time was certainly the place of the Church within society. Most of the Mexican ruling class was strongly anticlerical and a law “on the tolerance of sects” meant that the priests heavily controlled by the state. If you want to change the situation, it will be up to you to progressively support the Catholic Church by giving back their lands and amend the anticlerical laws. If you go down that path the destruction of the separation between the Church and the State will be waiting for you at the end of the road.
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Two groups can rise to power hand in hand with the Church: the Catholic conservatives and the Synarchists. The conservatives try to combine their religious beliefs with republican institutions. It would lead to the rise of the Party of National Action of Manuel Gómez Morín. As an alternative, the restoration of the Church can be concomitant with a much more radical group: the Synarchists. That group will try to institute a “clerical-fascist” state, using the influence of the members of the Church eager to seek their revenge on the anticlericalists who ruled Mexico since the 1911 revolution. At the end of both trees, you can contact the veterans of the Cristero War and incorporate them to your armed forces. Such course of action will obviously anger the former ruling class that will surely try to contest power in order to reestablish the anticlerical legal system.

Revolutionary Legacy
At the start of the game, the Mexican army is divided politically as various generals support their own political group depending on their political orientation (they were usually opposed to the Church). One of your first choice will therefore concern the fate of the armed forces. You can choose to control and depoliticize them, transforming them into a professional force or embrace one of those groups and use them to quickly shift the political landscape of the country.

If you choose to support the Gold Shirts, the country will evolve into an anticlerical authoritarian regime. The exact nature of that regime can however vary a bit. Supporting Plutarco Calles (by selecting the “Jefe Maximo” focus) will grant direct control over the state as he was unable to fully control Cardenas. If Calles was previously exiled and the general Saturnino Cedillo was supported however, he will lead the opposition and take control of the government. If none of those conditions are fulfilled, Nicolás Rodríguez Carrasco, the leader of the Gold Shirts will lead the country instead.

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As an alternative to right-wing authoritarianism, you can favor the communist Red Shirts and suppress other political movements instead. This revolutionary movement will give the presidential seat to the Trotskyist head of the communist party Hernán Laborde

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… unless you invited his mentor to the government previously.

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You would then be rewarded by Leon himself, awake and angry, ready to take his revenge against Stalin

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It would then be your objective to lead the 4th Internationale and show how superior it is to the 3rd (aka the Comintern).

If you want more peaceful solutions, multiple tools are at your disposal, depending on your political orientation. If you are communist and don’t want to embrace the political legacy of the 4th International, you can try to form the Revolutionary American League and spread communism in Latin American countries.

As a more right wing oriented government, you can support “Hispanism”; the concept that the countries of South America should support each other; and try to form a faction including all of South America. If you are fascist (Synarchist or anticlerical), the effect will change from a diplomatic offensive to a more violent one. This course of action will allow you access to wargoal focuses that could enable you to unite South America by force.

If trying to dramatically change the political order in Latin America is not your thing, you can simply adopt “Realpolitik” and find allies in order to survive this era of global conflict.

Territorial Expansion
If you don’t want to just send a few planes to help the US against the Japanese, several expansion paths will be available to you once your diplomatic status is settled. Most of those will grant you wargoals against neighboring countries and in some cases, the addition of new cores will become possible.

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The most peculiar plan is certainly “Operation Just Cause”. If you approve that plan you will be in a border conflict against US in order take control of the Panama canal area.

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This will of course anger the US so be careful. The rest is either pretty straightforward or will be food for thoughts until the release.

Mexico was our final focus tree for MTG, so next we return to to the seas for more naval gameplay updates.

Rejected Titles:
  • Mexico? More like Maxico!
  • Making your casa my casa
  • Where in the world is Leon Trotsky?
  • No one expects the Mexican inquisition. Seriously. No one...
  • Mexico, or how I learned to stop worrying and love el jefe
  • Hit or Miss, I Guess They Never Miss Huh, You Got a Trotsky, Stalin gon' Icepick Ya

READ Thread mark before posting (no offtopic spam)
 
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Conversations regarding modern-day Mexico and immigration will stop.

Edit: And Pancho Villa!
 
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Sadly, no. Kinda hoping they would be added in the future, considering PH was an exiled democratic government with importance in the Pacific War.
I the game the Philippines doesn’t really do much to help and I’m not exactly sure what they could do to improve that so that could be the reason for not wanting to make a focus tree for the Philippines at the moment plus they have previously stated in a DD a while back that they have Nations they would like to get done first and the Philippines aren’t on that list so the chances of the Philippines getting a tree are slim.
 
@podcat I can’t believe I forgot to mention it but the new portrait for Lázaro Cárdenas looks so good! Also since you changed his portrait I am wondering will you be changing Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s portrait as well as Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill’s portrait to fit more with the new ones and also more importantly for Churchill as I have been looking at pictures of Winston recently and I noticed that the picture you used as reference for the portrait is him during his second time of being Prime Minister in the 50s.
 
Numerous posts deleted.

Folks, you will behave and follow the rules on the forum. You will discuss the contents of the DD. You will not resort to name calling over a difference of opinion. You will not discuss the history of Mexico here nor any modern-day politics. You will not make generalized statements regarding a country's people.

I hope I have made myself sufficiently clear.
 
I the game the Philippines doesn’t really do much to help and I’m not exactly sure what they could do to improve that so that could be the reason for not wanting to make a focus tree for the Philippines at the moment plus they have previously stated in a DD a while back that they have Nations they would like to get done first and the Philippines aren’t on that list so the chances of the Philippines getting a tree are slim.

Good point, gotta admit.

Though I would say that PH could have a focus tree situation analogous to what the British Raj/India had with UK. The Philippine Commonwealth under Pres. Manuel L. Quezon was bent on industrializing the entire country in preparation for full independence from the US. The democratic path would deal with more emphasis on developing Manila (and fortifying the areas around Manila Bay, as historical) OR spread out development across the archipelago. Alt-history paths would be:
- Fascist: granting Japan easier maritime access in exchange for industrial and military support (historically there was a pro-Japan faction within PH)
- Communist: granting the Soviets more resources and warm water access in exchange for industrial and military support (there was a Communist insurgency already). And a Southeast Asian "anti-colonialist crusade" like that of South Africa, but I guess Siam would be more up to the task. Probably.

That being said, I understand that there are "priority" countries already set by PDX (Spain, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Finland, etc.) and I would definitely want to see them having their own focus trees/mechanics as soon as possible. I'm also happy for Netherlands and Mexico (Netherlands was my top pick for MtG new trees. Oh, and Senor Trotsky), but in comparison to the previous DLCs, MtG just lacks new trees (just two!) and there are still minor democracies that were also involved in WW2. (Belgium, PH, Norway)

With that, after all the necessary reworks for the majors AND priority new trees, I hope they would eventually make some for the rest of the WW2 players. Like the Poland DLC, but with more trees. I'm thinking the next one would be a Soviet DLC (kinda hinted during the Naval Terrain DD) so who knows what PDX (@podcat, @Bratyn, etc.) has in store.

And if all else fails, well... mods. :D
 
Good point, gotta admit.

Though I would say that PH could have a focus tree situation analogous to what the British Raj/India had with UK. The Philippine Commonwealth under Pres. Manuel L. Quezon was bent on industrializing the entire country in preparation for full independence from the US. The democratic path would deal with more emphasis on developing Manila (and fortifying the areas around Manila Bay, as historical) OR spread out development across the archipelago. Alt-history paths would be:
- Fascist: granting Japan easier maritime access in exchange for industrial and military support (historically there was a pro-Japan faction within PH)
- Communist: granting the Soviets more resources and warm water access in exchange for industrial and military support (there was a Communist insurgency already). And a Southeast Asian "anti-colonialist crusade" like that of South Africa, but I guess Siam would be more up to the task. Probably.

That being said, I understand that there are "priority" countries already set by PDX (Spain, Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Finland, etc.) and I would definitely want to see them having their own focus trees/mechanics as soon as possible. I'm also happy for Netherlands and Mexico (Netherlands was my top pick for MtG new trees. Oh, and Senor Trotsky), but in comparison to the previous DLCs, MtG just lacks new trees (just two!) and there are still minor democracies that were also involved in WW2. (Belgium, PH, Norway)

With that, after all the necessary reworks for the majors AND priority new trees, I hope they would eventually make some for the rest of the WW2 players. Like the Poland DLC, but with more trees. I'm thinking the next one would be a Soviet DLC (kinda hinted during the Naval Terrain DD) so who knows what PDX (@podcat, @Bratyn, etc.) has in store.

And if all else fails, well... mods. :D
Yep and a Soviet themed DLC could involve France too since they were allies before the revolution so althistory could reestablish the alliance by either Russia going democratic or going Tsarist again (since the Trotsky coup was impossible irl and they have that in there they will probably add a Tsarist restoration focus tree and there will either be another civil war or a coup and the SSRs will break away and the focus tree will allow you to slowly retake them) or by France going communist and reforming the alliance that way, and other countries that could be involved but I’m not sure yet are Finland (Finland has the highest chance I feel), Turkey, Iran, Iraq (probably lowest chance), Afghanistan, and Mongolia since they all had fairly important interactions with the Soviets in some way.
 
Back on topic, two new questions:

- Can we have more portraits of Dutch and Mexican generals and admirals, as well as new 3D figures for Dutch and Mexican units?
- If Mexico goes for Vanguard of the 4th International, could it recruit or increase Communist influence in Canada so they could gang up on USA, or is it just going solo?

Also, Trotsky with a red sombrero would be a nice touch. :D
 
Back on topic, two new questions:

- Can we have more portraits of Dutch and Mexican generals and admirals, as well as new 3D figures for Dutch and Mexican units?
- If Mexico goes for Vanguard of the 4th International, could it recruit or increase Communist influence in Canada so they could gang up on USA, or is it just going solo?

Also, Trotsky with a red sombrero would be a nice touch. :D
They always make 3D models to go with the Nations getting new focus trees as they already showed some 3D models for the Netherlands in their focus tree DD I think and as for Trotsky with the red sombrero YES PLEASE!
 
Yep and a Soviet themed DLC could involve France too since they were allies before the revolution so althistory could reestablish the alliance by either Russia going democratic or going Tsarist again (since the Trotsky coup was impossible irl and they have that in there they will probably add a Tsarist restoration focus tree and there will either be another civil war or a coup and the SSRs will break away and the focus tree will allow you to slowly retake them) or by France going communist and reforming the alliance that way, and other countries that could be involved but I’m not sure yet are Finland (Finland has the highest chance I feel), Turkey, Iran, Iraq (probably lowest chance), Afghanistan, and Mongolia since they all had fairly important interactions with the Soviets in some way.

I think that a reworked Soviet Focus Tree would expand more on the Communist Path, like "Stalin vs. Trotsky vs. Bukharin", or "Oppose Stalin", or whatnot. I have little idea as to what an alternate USSR under Bukharin would offer but I'm sure he's one of the Stalin's remaining rivals by 1936. Also, I don't know how a monarchist path could be made given what happened to the Romanovs... (I'm open to ideas, btw.)

For the democratic path, Alexander Kerensky or anybody else? Either way, if USSR goes democratic, it automatically breaks up. Here are two possible paths:
- Revive the Entente (Russia joins the Allies, but Germany gets a boost in industrial capacity (like a reverse to what happens when Germany goes democratic), OR
- Commonwealth of Independent States (Russia becomes faction leader, but former SSRs will have random border conflicts and increased instability)

As to new focus trees, my top picks are Finland (Winter War hellyeah), Mongolia (Make Mongolia Empire Again), Iran (Dem oil), and Turkey (Istanbul vs. Constantinople) :D
 
I am not impressed at all this week. Was Mexico really a relevant country in the WW2 context? I do not think so...

It's for the Trotsky memes
 
I got a feeling the Mediterranean is the next area that will see more development. I can't say why definitively but it does seem like a theater that needs some touching up in terms of interaction. The naval mechanics might be what Italy needed in particular to keep itself relevant and make it a more credible threat. But some polish on this area would be nice. At the same time you got Spain, Greece, France and so on.
I don't disagree about Spain, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, and Turkey needing more flavor in a DLC, but I was really hoping for at least France and the USSR- even Finland thrown in there to flesh them out with buffs/debuffs that more or less attempt to recreate their strengths and weaknesses at the time.

Here's hoping for the next two DLCs to have both of those groups so the game is much better fleshed out.
 
It's for the Trotsky memes

Right. Because a genuine interest in the country is nigh impossible to fathom. Or the fact that it ties into the new fuel mechanic or makes Allied diplomacy in Central America an actual consideration (along with the Dutch oil from the Caribbean). And committing months of salary to justify one focus on the new tree with the purpose of amusing a few posters on YouTube is clearly PDX's priority. Hm.

Unless you weren't being serious. In which case, yes. Those will indeed be amongst the dankest of memes. *strokes goatee while admiring his Diego Rivera collection*
 
Unless you weren't being serious. In which case, yes.

I wasn't being serious although an opportunity cost analysis would reveal many countries who were objectively much more important to the war who still don't have trees. Mexico was a poor choice when compared to the alternatives. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting, but the game would benefit much more from a tree for Finland, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Spain, Siam, or others.
 
I wasn't being serious although an opportunity cost analysis would reveal many countries who were objectively much more important to the war who still don't have trees. Mexico was a poor choice when compared to the alternatives. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting, but the game would benefit much more from a tree for Finland, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Spain, Siam, or others.

First of all, apologies for making assumptions about your intent--one can't always tell when another is joking on a forum. That was my mistake, and I'm sorry.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your post. An opportunity-cost analysis is the realm of full-time PDX business department employees, who have access to information such as the game's budget and the metrics that were used to come to the decision, in addition to HoI IV's overall project plan. Without even that, I'm not sure how you're drawing your conclusions.

The countries you list are all interesting, but how do they tie together? With the Dutch and Mexicans, both have access to fuel sources in roughly the same area, both lean toward the Allies, and both are in the spheres of the two most powerful naval democracies of the time. Pretty efficient to plan and execute.

The others? Greece, Turkey, Spain--maybe a Mediterranean pack (without Italy, though?), but, as has been pointed out, Spain is a difficult beast that may require a Waking the Tiger-esque DLC of its own. Siam's fine (one of my favorites actually in Victora II), but again, why release it here when we can potentially get it bundled with the Philippines, Burma, Indochina, etc.?

Bulgaria has already been confirmed a no-go. It had its chance with Death or Dishonor, and the devs said it was too difficult to design a focus tree around a nation that did its best to avoid the fighting, had little in the way of unique equipment, and for which there's not much documentation. Would I like to see it? Absolutely. But that's their stance, last I heard.

As has been established in countless scholarly sources and mentioned by me previously, Finland doesn't exist. Going so far as to give it a generic tree was merely to ensure that Sweden retained its share of the lucrative Russo-Japanese fishing zone that actually occupies that area known as "Fin-land." AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT GETS IT?! Allowing the wool to remain over our eyes, however, if they were to embellish history (even further) it would make sense to pair this hypothetical nation with the Soviet Union, not the UK or US.

Again, not disagreeing with the fact that all these countries deserve attention--I just don't think any minor nation is going to make or break the main war at this point, so why not choose one that's less familiar to a majority of players?
 
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he game's budget and the metrics that were used to come to the decision, in addition to the HoI IV's overall project plan.

This didn't enter into my consideration since I don't see the memes, even if profitable, as a good thing for the game or the genre. This should have been a functioning and interesting WWII grand strategy game on release. It's still not. Once that's out of the way add in all the crazy memey stuff you want.

The countries you list are all interesting, but how do they tie together? With the Dutch and Mexicans, both have access to fuel sources in roughly the same area, both lean toward the Allies, and both are in the spheres of the two most powerful democracies of the time. Pretty efficient to plan and execute.

I don't think "tying together" is really what's at stake here since all new trees have wild alt history, so they can tie together in whatever ways someone wants. Geographical proximity, interaction and all that we know is bullshit at this point anyways from the way Germany and the Balkans interact, the lack of a Bulgarian focus tree, and how the devs redid Mexico rather than Belgium, Norway, or another country that interacted with the US and UK much, much more than Mexico. Even among Latin American countries, Brazil and Venezuela are far better candidates for meaningful interaction. The "themes" are a talking point, nothing more.

Bulgaria has already been confirmed a no-go. It had its chance with Death or Dishonor, and the devs said it was too difficult to design a focus tree around a nation that did its best to avoid the fighting, had little in the way of unique equipment, and for which there's not much documentation. Would I like to see it? Absolutely. But that's their stance, last I heard.

I find it hilarious that they find it too difficult to design a tree for a nation that was more involved than Mexico but decide to include Mexico with Leon freaking Trotsky as a legitimate leadership option. It's absurd and I'm really not taking what the devs say seriously at this point. If they can make a tree for Mexico, they can make a tree for Bulgaria.

Again, not disagreeing with the fact that all these countries deserve attention--I just don't think any minor nation is going to make or break the main war at this point, so why not choose one that hasn't already been covered ad nauseam?

Because the game as it stands is an utter mess in the content design department. Focus trees are non-reactive to each other and three of the seven majors have yet to be reworked. Multiple older trees like Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Yugoslavia are trash. Maybe the devs should focus on figuring out the WWII part of their WWII strategy game before setting up Leon Trotsky's Mexico vs. Joseph Stalin's USSR?
 
Fundamentally I think the issues lies in the speed in which these content updates are getting released. Mechanical wise in terms of key systems like the Navy, airforce, fuel and later with the hopeful political and country management systems, I get that takes time and some fine tuning. But in regards to the focus trees and the overall country refinement. It shouldn't be taking 8 months or more and all that waiting to equate to around a half a step in regards to the grand scheme of building up the players involved within 2nd world war. its tedious to the consumer especially if they have a particular nation or theater they have a dedicated interest in and using a mod is inherently never gonna be an outright replacement/substitute for what paradox can offer.

If it is too much for the current team to pump these out in between the major mechanical updates then hire a few extra hands. Paradox isn't going under anytime soon and its not like Hoi4 is a failing title considering as of the recent paradoxcon they sold a million copies with a fanbase clearly in support of the content being offered. Honestly If this pace is kept its gonna be another 2 years or so before we get through the additional nations and theater updates for the game. Especially if they go about it with the 4 nations in a mix of minor and major reworks. I mean would've it been so egregious if they for example provided a Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela and Netherlands tree like a year ago that people can purchase then and later be updated to a degree when the newer mechanical stuff came along? I mean thats what your doing for he majors so why not the minors? I know the design Paradox aspires to is for the long haul but this turtle pace at times is really getting bothersome for someone who has had this title since around the time of release.

It barely feels like we've gone anywhere. Ya obviously its been polished up here and there but lingering problems are still present and the rate of content being added to supplement those gripes is just too slow. Which makes stuff like alternative history being made into this prominent thing a bigger kick in the knees because people deal with the wait then are rewarded with a half a step in regards of actually playing world war 2.
 
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@hkrommel

*shrugs* Sorry to hear you feel that way. Dictating to the devs what can and can't be done, making sweeping pronouncements on what the game should be due to personal taste, and criticizing the game in the most venomous language isn't going to get you your way, though.

And even if it did, as I mentioned in an earlier post, and as it was related by the devs themselves, everything you want is being funded by the sale of alternate history DLC. Enacting what you're suggesting would not give the historical game more resources--it would give it fewer. They literally cannot charge money for most of what you'd like to see improved.

Not saying it's ideal, but that's the situation. I personally enjoy the alternative history, and I find the game fun in either mode. I hope you do too, eventually.

EDIT: Stannis Baratheon took me to task for mixing up less and fewer.
 
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