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HOI4 Dev Diary - Naval Production, Repair and Damage

Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary. We had to hunt down some gremlins in the machinery before stuff could be screenshotted. Today we are going to talk about quite a lot of big changes to naval production and repair as well as the new critical hits system for ships.

Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
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It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.


Ship Repair
Repair is also changing drastically. Before, repairing a vessel was free and just took time, now it’s using your naval industry to do so. You can decide how many dockyards to assign as a max and the level of the naval base will decide how much can be leveraged in each one. So if you have a level 5 naval base you can leverage 5 dockyards there and repair 5 ships at once.

repair.jpg


Bases can be prioritized for receiving dockyards if you have a lot of fleets suffering at once in various places and can even be disabled for repair so you don't accidentally send ships to repair where the enemy will sink them etc. You can even repair in friendly ports if you have docking rights, but are likely to have lower priority than their ships if there is a competition for attention.
Screenshot_1.jpg

If you look closely at the damaged Deutschland heavy cruiser you will see that there is a warning icon on top of it. This signifies that it has taken a critical hit to its propeller and is suffering a big penalty to speed...

Critical Hits
On top of the propeller damage shown off above there are a lot of different critical hits a ship can suffer in combat. The idea behind these is to add some cool storytelling to the fate of ships, and to introduce some lucky random elements. For example imagine there is a lucky hit on a fast and powerful German surface raiding vessel damaging its propeller or engine. Suddenly it is no longer able to escape the royal navy’s wrath as it has planned to do.

Different kind of hits have different effect, and also will cause different amount of direct damage. We are still finalizing the amount of types we have, but here is a non-complete list to wet your appetites:
  • Main Battery Turret Destroyed - reduced attack on main weapons and damage
  • Secondary Batteries Destroyed - reduced attack on secondary weapons
  • Broken Propeller - lower speed
  • Rudder jammed - reduced ability to disengage
  • Magazine hit - massive damage
  • Torpedo Tubes destroyed - reduced torpedo attack and damage
  • Heavy fires - reduced org and damage
  • Ballast tanks inoperable - reduced stealth for subs
  • Radar Inoperable - reduced detection
Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit. There are several admiral traits designed to help you cope as well.

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“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

Is this all? No, there will also be a brand new ship designer and the ability to refit. But that ship is not yet watertight, so it will sail in a future diary instead :)

See you all next week again for more Man the Guns updates!


Rejected Titles:
  • Duct tape and you - keeping the Kriegsmarine afloat in a crisis!
  • The rise of Boaty McBoatface
  • This dev diary was taking on water
  • There is nothing a scottish engineer with a degree in technobabble can’t fix
  • What are you sinking about?
 
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
It do sound like base classes are gone and it is just Component based. Capital status is determined by certain Components such as carrier flight deck.

Battleship and Carriers are now going to be ships with flight deck and Heavy guns, but exactly how it is going to work is interesting to see.
 
It might also have something to do with (fingers crossed) displacement--at least partially... which would cover something like the Deutschland-class heavy cruisers.
 
“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

"Your inner scotty", don't know if you are a treker but if you are : " dilithium chambers at maximum captain " ;D
 
Which is quite ok IMO. Efficiency is not only about IC-days but also about resources. The T-34 is a great industrial example in this regard. The first batches to roll off the assembly lines required thousands of machining operations and a lot of retooling (something that adds cost in terms of resources and time) while the production models later in the war required a lot less operations and tooling. Now this wasn't something that was inherent to the models themselves either but rather the result of shortcuts and smart idéas on the factory floors which got implemented into the production lines. The "drawback" which isn't really simulated in HOI4 was incompatibility between various factories as tolerances and design features were altered differently depending on the manufacturing plant (so scavenging for spare parts wasn't as easy as one would think).
There are more examples in most of the warring nations but increased output due to increased efficiency doesn't always equal a higher consumption of raw resources (the efficiency growth goes two ways). Having the same model staying at the same resource requirements per MIC feels like a pretty decent simplification. We already pay more resources for newer models (Tier3 tanks cost more resources than Tier2 for example).

I do however agree that the resource-system could use some loving care in future expansions. It's a bit too simple but we don't want HOI3 stockpiling or overly complex production-chains either.

And truth be told, the amount of resources required over time in a Factory that only built one thing always went down, not up, as production ramped up. Less waste due to better building practices decreased needed amount of materials over-all.
 
@podcat
You guys are absolutely amazing!

For instance:
If you select 'Porche' for your Armour Designer as Germany, all tanks made with Porche have a huge XP discount to increased to making armour variants, but cause reliability to dive-bomb.

So get an XP Bonus up front but have to go back into the Variant after and BURN said Bonus XP putting the "Reliability" back to where it first started?

Not seeing how that isn't a wash and simply adds Micro management. :\
 
So I take it, with all these changes, that NIC is going to remain abstract enough to allow allied ports to repair your ships still? My assumption, from reading through all this, is that dockyards will always be able to magically teleport themselves/repair equipment to wherever it's needed.

That said, this does make me question what the purpose of naval bases will be anymore, as others have pointed out. Yes, it'll still affect supply, but that alone just means there wouldn't be much point in upgrading more than maybe one or two in a core. I'd like to think that there would be a balance between being able to supply friendly forces and being able to repair them, but that might be going into too much detail for the system (or to be much fun).

More than that, I'd really like, given all this, to see manufacturer's overhauled a bit to provide more production/capability. I get that juggernauts like the US and UK (and theoretically, Japan, Italy, France, etc.) would be able to continue pumping out ships at a decent pace, but I'm curious as to how smaller countries would be affected. Honestly, a series of tech options or political choices to streamline some production while neglecting (if not actually penalizing) others would be a good fit, in my mind.

Also, folks who keep yelling about the different dockyard caps for different ship sizes: stop thinking of each dockyard as a literal yard, and think of it more as a percentage of effort. 10 dockyards for an escort is 100% effort, thus 100% build speed, which is the same thing as 5 dockyards for a capital ship being 100%. Toning down the total number of dockyards necessary to achieve that effort is what seems to be the goal; it means that smaller powers will be able to make decent-sized, escort-dominated fleets, or dedicate all of their resources to larger vessels (or, possibly, some place in-between).

Given that, right now, there's fairly negligible difference between say, 12, 13, 14 dockyards for a battleship or carrier, while this change takes away some of that finesse, I can't say I'll miss it. I'll deal with the UI issues as needed.

That said, like a number of others, the thing that I'm most worried about still is tech-rushing newer designs of ships. I'm assuming (hoping?) the ship designer massively overhauls it, since right now, a fully "customized" old-model vessel, aircraft, or tank, is always going to be at least a little worse than a vanilla "new model". On the other hand, a system with more "in-between" options, rather than just flat-out upgrades, would be interesting... if also possibly annoying to deal with at first.
 
This is great! Thanks for the preview.

As a very naval-minded player for whom HoI4 is not offering quite as much as I had initially hoped, the upcoming changes and the focus of this expansion have already reinvigorated my interest in the game, and I am anticipating the patch with great enthusiasm (the DLC has, of course, already been pre-ordered the day it was announced :p).

Even if I have to agree that it is a little strange that it will be possible to assign more dockyards to smaller ships than the big ones -- but I suppose or at least hope this just sounds a little counter-intuitive and will feel more abstracted (and thus less bothersome) in the actual game.

It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.
So will this name list differ between individual types/classes of ship, or will it just universally assign any queued names to everything that finishes construction? It might be a little awkward if, say, a Yuugumo-class DD would be christened Musashi instead of Kiyoshimo. :cool:

Or will you go into this at greater detail with the upcoming Ship Designer diary?

While altering the armament would be quite reasonable, adding armor to ships wasn't something nations undertook lightly. Specifically, the engineering that goes into keeping a ship from becoming a submarine is generally locked in once the armor and hull are built. Rarely is more armor added because of how it changes how the ship will handle and ride.
Well, other than torpedo bulges. :D Though I'm not sure if this really counts as an armor upgrade per se.
 
That said, this does make me question what the purpose of naval bases will be anymore.

Naval bases determine the cap of the number of dockyards that can be allocated to repair in a single province. So if you have a level 10 naval base, you can assign up to 10 naval dockyards to repair there. This was one of the details buried in the dev diaries somewhere, I believe.
 
And truth be told, the amount of resources required over time in a Factory that only built one thing always went down, not up, as production ramped up. Less waste due to better building practices decreased needed amount of materials over-all.
To be clear, that is the amount of resources per unit produced, not the amount per day of operations. If a factory increases its output significantly so too will its resource need increase.
 
Good improvements but army and navy build limit must add. And air force limt too. Because bigger nations can build unlimited navy and army. New buildings must come. For example:
Barracks : Increases army force limit.
Military port: Increases navy force limit.
Military airbase:Increases air force limit.
And the important thing , please add ask for peace. That's impossible right now. We fight to the death every nation. And that made a game unplayable. I got bored when I'm playing. Because If I Germany I have to take USA :/. Or I have to take their subjects.
 
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Good improvements but army and navy build limit must add. And air force limt too. Because bigger nations can build unlimited navy and army. New buildings must come. For example:
Barracks : Increases army force limit.
Military port: Increases navy force limit.
Military airbase:Increases air force limit.
And the important thing , please add ask for peace. That's impossible right now. We fight to the death every nation. And that made a game unplayable. I got bored when I'm playing. Because If I Germany I have to take USA :/. Or I have to take their subjects.
Sorry, but I think that is a terrible idea. Just your premise that they can build an unlimited amount is flawed.

In the game as it stands everyone, major and minor alike, builds far too much of everything. This distorts the balance of the game badly. It also hurts late game performance badly. Play with some mods that reduce how many units actually end up on the map and you will see how much better everything is. Not only does the game flow more smoothly, but combat feels better as well. It is less of a slogfest and allows for maneuver to mean more.
 
Probably not, that's a micro management hell inducing headache...
 
Yeah, organizing individual ships such as these in an elegant and realistic way would be tricky. There might be ways, but it'd require all new mechanics, so the question is whether a feature such as this would be worth the effort. On the other hand, with how much more detail is added to damage, and how important repairs are going to get ...

If at all, I'd probably do something like this by treating Repair Ships as their own fleet, and whichever Naval Province they occupy would act as an improvised repair base. Fleets without mission assignment in the same Naval Province would be automatically subject to repairs, but they'd only repair a single ship at a time, and they'd work down a priority order beginning with fixing the fleet's Critical Damage (e.g. repairing damaged screws so that the ship can proceed to a dock for proper repairs), which would be a Repair Ship's primary purpose. Actually patching hull damage (HP) would be more of a bonus, and would occur at a less efficient rate than at a proper dockyard. Perhaps there'd be some sort of cap as well, so that a Repair Ship could fix damaged vessels half-way, but they'd still need time in the dock to get them back to 100%.

Needless to say, Repair Ships would still be subject to naval sorties and aerial attack, so it would make sense to assign a squadron for protection via Convoy Escort mission.

The most likely use for such a ship, then, would be as a "first responder" assisting fleets operating far away from friendly waters, fixing the worst damage and thus helping to keep them in action a little longer, or making sure they can make the journey home without a broken turbine prolonging the trip by months.
 
a) that would likely be something for the BICE community... they would likely get a kick out of World War II Naval Command Simulator 2018 (even though I've never actually played BICE, I know I'd get a kick out of it for awhile).

b) The problem is that it adds complexity for no real gain in enjoyment. I can get the same functions from upgrading a Naval Port in Ulithi and saying that it represents the repair fleet that sat there. Now, if the mechanic was one that could be "moved" (ie, on-map relocatable "port facilities" that contributed to the size and ability of a port to repair battle damage or refuel/rearm ships), that might get you what you're talking about without actually forcing someone to have to build more ships. Because--let's be absolutely honest--the only nation that managed something like this was the United States. Very few nations had otherwise a capability even remotely equal to it.
 
Well, the US wasn't the only country with repair ships (e. g. Captain Hara's account, "Japanese Destroyer Captain", mentions several interactions with Akashi, which played a rather important role for the Combined Fleet), but I get what you're saying. I agree that such vessels should be quite rare (tbh, I'd like fleets in HoI4 to be smaller in general, but the upcoming changes thankfully seem to move the game into this very direction), so my aforementioned concern regarding the cost-effectiveness of such a feature would apply.

I'd be less concerned about it potentially being too much micro-management as it'd literally just be another icon to move via right-click, and you're done, but I guess it's true that the small number of countries that would make use of such a feature would just render it too special to implement.

Hypothetically speaking, tying it to a port facility as a more abstracted, mobile "upgrade" would be an elegant alternative; there's no need to represent an auxiliary vessel as an actual 3D-modeled ship on the map, and it would still alleviate the need to permanently upgrade ports just because you'd like to have temporary repair facilities there. The only concern would be that you still need to control the port (necessitating occupation), but if I recall correctly, repair ships often anchored and worked from within friendly ports anyways.
 
If convoys still can't retreat from battle with MTG I will quite literally steel a military convoy, get engaged in a military naval battle and retreat it, before jumping out of a building just to demonstrate that it is in fact possible for convoys to turn in the water and not kill A HUGE NAVAL INVASION THAT SHOULD HAVE WORKED FINE EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT MY CONVOYS WILL NOT F-ING RETREAT!