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HOI4 Dev Diary - Naval Production, Repair and Damage

Hi everyone! Sorry about the late diary. We had to hunt down some gremlins in the machinery before stuff could be screenshotted. Today we are going to talk about quite a lot of big changes to naval production and repair as well as the new critical hits system for ships.

Ship Production
The current system of producing ships where you can assign 15 dockyards to the production of an individual vessel leads to results that are both quite ahistorical as well as not feeling like we want the naval play to feel. With big countries able to replace the loss of a big capital ship without much sweat it makes them less precious, and so we are changing this:
  • A Capital Ship can use up to 5 dockyards in its construction
  • Other ships can use 10 dockyards
  • Convoys can use the full 15
This essentially shifts capital ship construction speed to make each ship slower to make, but you can still build several in parallel. Constructing capital ships is complex and not exactly suitable for optimized assembly lines while we felt this still fit convoys very well with other ships in the middle. Speaking of capital ships, the definition is now a bit more flexible and will depend on the inclusion of certain design elements in your ships (such as a carrier flight deck or heavy guns), so if you construct your ships with those be aware that it will impact how streamlined their construction can be made.
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It is also possible to add custom names when you set up construction. The perfect time to remember to name your battleships awesome custom names rather than having to remember and do it once they are done. You can queue up several names if you so wish.


Ship Repair
Repair is also changing drastically. Before, repairing a vessel was free and just took time, now it’s using your naval industry to do so. You can decide how many dockyards to assign as a max and the level of the naval base will decide how much can be leveraged in each one. So if you have a level 5 naval base you can leverage 5 dockyards there and repair 5 ships at once.

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Bases can be prioritized for receiving dockyards if you have a lot of fleets suffering at once in various places and can even be disabled for repair so you don't accidentally send ships to repair where the enemy will sink them etc. You can even repair in friendly ports if you have docking rights, but are likely to have lower priority than their ships if there is a competition for attention.
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If you look closely at the damaged Deutschland heavy cruiser you will see that there is a warning icon on top of it. This signifies that it has taken a critical hit to its propeller and is suffering a big penalty to speed...

Critical Hits
On top of the propeller damage shown off above there are a lot of different critical hits a ship can suffer in combat. The idea behind these is to add some cool storytelling to the fate of ships, and to introduce some lucky random elements. For example imagine there is a lucky hit on a fast and powerful German surface raiding vessel damaging its propeller or engine. Suddenly it is no longer able to escape the royal navy’s wrath as it has planned to do.

Different kind of hits have different effect, and also will cause different amount of direct damage. We are still finalizing the amount of types we have, but here is a non-complete list to wet your appetites:
  • Main Battery Turret Destroyed - reduced attack on main weapons and damage
  • Secondary Batteries Destroyed - reduced attack on secondary weapons
  • Broken Propeller - lower speed
  • Rudder jammed - reduced ability to disengage
  • Magazine hit - massive damage
  • Torpedo Tubes destroyed - reduced torpedo attack and damage
  • Heavy fires - reduced org and damage
  • Ballast tanks inoperable - reduced stealth for subs
  • Radar Inoperable - reduced detection
Suffering a critical hit is a good reason to repair your ships and they need to be fully repaired to remove the effects of the critical hit. There are several admiral traits designed to help you cope as well.

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“Safety First” Lowers the chance of the ships under this admirals command suffering critical hits in the first place while “Crisis Magician” unleashes your internal Scotty which will reduce any effects of critical hits through jury rigged repair, fancy maneuvering and probably a fair amount of god old duct tape.

Is this all? No, there will also be a brand new ship designer and the ability to refit. But that ship is not yet watertight, so it will sail in a future diary instead :)

See you all next week again for more Man the Guns updates!


Rejected Titles:
  • Duct tape and you - keeping the Kriegsmarine afloat in a crisis!
  • The rise of Boaty McBoatface
  • This dev diary was taking on water
  • There is nothing a scottish engineer with a degree in technobabble can’t fix
  • What are you sinking about?
 
I also absolutely enjoy keeping tabs on previous major naval engagements myself. Now, if there was some sort of event related to naval research with MtG, I could die a happy person :) For example, if a player could redo what Teddy Roosevelt did with the Great White Fleet (1907-09), let's say to impress/intimidate Latin America, as part of the Monroe doctrine, that would be amazing! You'd have to have certain number of capital ships, the event would take them out of your control for a time, you'd spend pp as a political action to initiate it, but as a result you'd get US relationship boost or something in neutral American states.
 
I really don't understand the rationale behind using 5 dockyards for capital ships and 10 for others. Why not just 5 for all ships?
Alot of people have complained that the production queue will get longer, and if it was 5 for all ships it would be alot worse. Seems like a decent compromise to me to keep convoys at 15 and Light ships at 10.

Here is a mod that allows a maximum of 6 dockyards for all types of ships (small and big ships alike).

upload_2018-9-13_12-55-8.png


;)

Works well in the multiplayer game we're playing.

Kudos to all the modders who continue to innovate and explore ways to make HoI4 an even better game.
 
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Here is a mod that allows a maximum of 6 dockyards for all types of ships (small and big ships alike).

View attachment 404009

;)

Works well in the multiplayer game we're playing.

Kudos to all the modders who continue to innovate and explore ways to make HoI4 an even better game.
That looks oddly familiar. ;)
 
Yeah, I don't really see the need for light ships and convoys to have a max of 10 and 15 dockyards. They're already going to build much faster than the capital ships by virtue of being much cheaper.

It seems counter-intuitive that a destroyer can have twice the resources devoted to it than a battleship fifteen times larger. If I was designing it I'd either have everything max out at five dockyards for simplicity's sake, or have the heavy ships be the ones that can take extra dockyards.
 
the crisis magician trait is awesome. get that guy some flex tape and the HMS Hood will be back up and running in no time!
 
Yeah, I don't really see the need for light ships and convoys to have a max of 10 and 15 dockyards. They're already going to build much faster than the capital ships by virtue of being much cheaper.

It seems counter-intuitive that a destroyer can have twice the resources devoted to it than a battleship fifteen times larger. If I was designing it I'd either have everything max out at five dockyards for simplicity's sake, or have the heavy ships be the ones that can take extra dockyards.

I guess 3 × 5 docks on destroyers won't make much difference compared with 1 x 15 due to the short construction time.

The capital limitation is supposed to simulate something like midway.
Japan unexpectedly losing 80% of her total carriers will now also spell doom in HoI4 cause you can't just fire up several 15 dock production lines. Instead building the first batch will take 3 times longer.

It's great from a gameplay point of view which is the most important thing to consider.

In reality the US had a whooping 141 carriers (including the smaller CVEs) by 1945.

I think it took only 6-12 months depending on type for the assembly line masters of the US to construct a carrier whereas the Japanese needed 3 years (numbers roughly from recollection).
 
It has been my experience (mostly USA, all SP) that resources, not number of dockyards, is the limiting factor to Naval construction.
This will change how I build my fleets for sure, and I think is part of how PDX is trying to do away with the CV/BB doomstacks and force 'balanced' (but still possibly LARGE) fleets.

Besides, 10 minutes after release, the first modder will be looking in the files to try to change the dockyard limits.
 
I'm sorry if this is a bit on the side of this particular DD, perhaps I should have asked it on one of those more focused on naval combat, but still. The big, overarching "naval" problem I have when actually playing HOI4 as it is now is that convoys are essentially invulnerable. Even with huge amounts of subs, ludicrous amounts of planes (20k++) and a big fleet, you can't really make a dent in a convoy of more than 100, ships let alone 1000 ships. Will MTG really change this? I read about the mines, etc, but the big question is still - if the enemy have a thousand convoys in a route, and are producing ~100 per year, can you in any way shut them down? This thing comes up eventually in every single game I play.

As far as I can see, in the current game "convoy escort" is quite pointless, it's far better to pump out more convoys than to try to create escorts for them; for even if they go straight through a zone patrolled by twenty thousand naval bombers, only ~1000 planes will get in the fight, and they'll maybe sink 1-2 convoys and damage a fair bit of them. But who cares about damaged convoys, I'm not even sure if the game records damage to individual convoys, and at any rate it doesn't matter when production far far outstrips the possible damage done.
 
I'm sorry if this is a bit on the side of this particular DD, perhaps I should have asked it on one of those more focused on naval combat, but still. The big, overarching "naval" problem I have when actually playing HOI4 as it is now is that convoys are essentially invulnerable. Even with huge amounts of subs, ludicrous amounts of planes (20k++) and a big fleet, you can't really make a dent in a convoy of more than 100, ships let alone 1000 ships. Will MTG really change this? I read about the mines, etc, but the big question is still - if the enemy have a thousand convoys in a route, and are producing ~100 per year, can you in any way shut them down? This thing comes up eventually in every single game I play.

As far as I can see, in the current game "convoy escort" is quite pointless, it's far better to pump out more convoys than to try to create escorts for them; for even if they go straight through a zone patrolled by twenty thousand naval bombers, only ~1000 planes will get in the fight, and they'll maybe sink 1-2 convoys and damage a fair bit of them. But who cares about damaged convoys, I'm not even sure if the game records damage to individual convoys, and at any rate it doesn't matter when production far far outstrips the possible damage done.

this is definitely a problem when commerce raiding as there are tons of convoys, but when you just have a 80 or 150 convoys ferrying armies for a naval invasion it seems convoys can't fend for themselves and putting fleet on convoy escort just doesn't help. I lose all my armies. see my earlier post in this thread for this problem.
Fix for game breaking issue in Man the Guns?
Will man the guns fix the following naval combat issue I have sometimes when my fleet is escorting my invasion troops across the sea but I lose all transports/armies?

In the naval battle interface the transports will be on one line while the majority or all of my fleet is several lines up or down and completely out of range to defend them. Even if my fleet outnumbers the enemy's by many times and heavily outclasses them I will still end up losing every last transport and entire armies because my fleet will not reposition to protect them, even though the fleet is set to escort convoys(shouldn't this mean they are close to the transports on the battle screen?). Even when some of my ships disengage(or other ships enter battle late) and then come back into the battle they will not come back in a better place to support the transports.

I could understand if the battle only took a day or two because my ships may not catch the transports in time but this generally happens in a battle lasting weeks or even months because the enemy has so few ships that it takes them a loooooong time to kill all the transports. My fleet will not reposition to help even if they aren't fighting anyone and the only enemy ships in the battle are the ones killing the transports. This has happened with my fleet of hundreds versus a fleet of 20 or 30. This has happened with my fleet of 30 versus a fleet of 3 or 5. This also happens when I have massive air superiority and tons of naval attacks from aircraft. This is just very frustrating having massive superiority in every way imaginable only to lose all the transports you are out there escorting. Will this be fixed in man the guns?

Love HOI4 and man the guns is looking great!

Thank you for your hard work!
But definitely Planes at the least need to be far more effective versus massed convoys
 
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this is definitely a problem when commerce raiding as there are tons of convoys, but when you just have a 80 or 150 convoys ferrying armies for a naval invasion it seems convoys can't fend for themselves and putting fleet on convoy escort just doesn't help. I lose all my armies. see my earlier post in this thread for this problem. But definitely Planes at the least need to be far more effective versus massed convoys

Hey that's a good point, I've noticed too that escort for troop transports really aren't doing a great job.
 
Hey that's a good point, I've noticed too that escort for troop transports really aren't doing a great job.

It may be that is because the escort ships are assigned to regions, not specific convoy or invasion forces.
Hopefully, that will be changed similar to how air squadrons can be assigned to specific armies now.
 
These changes are excellent! Now that individual ships are way more valuable, could we perhaps have Captains generated like Ace Pilots, and assigned them to individual ships with unique traits and stuff?
 
Ok how can someone build 1000 submarines and still produce Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, Tirpitz, all of Admiral-Hipper- and Deutschland-Class and other stuff with this changes?
 
Doomstacks are historical. If you split up your fleet too much the smaller groups can be taken out individually.

No, doomstacks are not historical at all.

UK and US fleets were scattered all around the globe. That is how you control the sea lanes. Not by having all your nation's ships in one mega fleet that control a few hundred square kilometers of the whole oceans.

Try to protect a big building of thieves by putting all your guardians at the same door leaving all other doors and all floors empty...
 
Is there an estimate as to when this DLC will be released? This looks very good and I cannot wait!
None at all from PDX, just lots of guess-work from users so far.
They have only just started torturing us with pre-views, lol.